Barcelona's rise as a football superpower

Harry190

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Real Madrid and Barcelona are 2 of the biggest clubs in the world.

And using attendances to downplay what they won in Europe or the players they had doesn’t make sense.
2 of the biggest indeed, but not the biggest. Never have been. The Spanish league does not have the same exposure as the English league. People are often mistaken in Europe and some Brits have a strange inferiority complex when it comes to saying which one is the biggest but football culture in the British Isles is far stronger than in continental Europe. Attendance figures are definitely a correct measure of a club's popularity. Neither Barcelona nor Madrid can fill their stadium.

Barcelona is more understandable. That thing is far too big considering the size of the city.
 

Keeps It tidy

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2 of the biggest indeed, but not the biggest. Never have been. The Spanish league does not have the same exposure as the English league. People are often mistaken in Europe and some Brits have a strange inferiority complex when it comes to saying which one is the biggest but football culture in the British Isles is far stronger than in continental Europe. Attendance figures are definitely a correct measure of a club's popularity. Neither Barcelona nor Madrid can fill their stadium.

Barcelona is more understandable. That thing is far too big considering the size of the city.
A few years ago there was a La Liga club that had lower attendance than some League two clubs.
 

lysglimt

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Give Barcelona 2-3 years and they will need to build a completely new side. Messi, Suarez, Rakitic, Pique, Busquets and Vidal will all be gone - and of course they will still be strong, but some of these players will be almost impossible to replace...Messi, not just ALMOST impossible.
 

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2 of the biggest indeed, but not the biggest. Never have been. The Spanish league does not have the same exposure as the English league. People are often mistaken in Europe and some Brits have a strange inferiority complex when it comes to saying which one is the biggest but football culture in the British Isles is far stronger than in continental Europe. Attendance figures are definitely a correct measure of a club's popularity. Neither Barcelona nor Madrid can fill their stadium.

Barcelona is more understandable. That thing is far too big considering the size of the city.
Sorry to say but Barcelona or Real Madrid are bigger than any English club. Don’t get me wrong, but no one who watches football over the years puts attendances, global fanbases above trophies or best players. And historically the best players of the game played in these clubs. But if you believe in this ok, it’s an opinion like many others.
 

ravi2

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Give Barcelona 2-3 years and they will need to build a completely new side. Messi, Suarez, Rakitic, Pique, Busquets and Vidal will all be gone - and of course they will still be strong, but some of these players will be almost impossible to replace...Messi, not just ALMOST impossible.
I think they are capable of a rebuild and not totally fecking it up in the same manner we did... Unless the glazers buy them as well.
 

Infordin

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Give Barcelona 2-3 years and they will need to build a completely new side. Messi, Suarez, Rakitic, Pique, Busquets and Vidal will all be gone - and of course they will still be strong, but some of these players will be almost impossible to replace...Messi, not just ALMOST impossible.
This is a big fear of mine too. The average age of our starting eleven today was 29.

We do have some good young players coming up, like Arthur, De Jong, Lenglet, Dembele... but the rebuild coming up will be huge.
 

Harry190

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Sorry to say but Barcelona or Real Madrid are bigger than any English club. Don’t get me wrong, but no one who watches football over the years puts attendances, global fanbases above trophies or best players. And historically the best players of the game played in these clubs. But if you believe in this ok, it’s an opinion like many others.
Bigger is based on fanbase and popularity not trophies. You're thinking of prestige. That's something different.
 

Infordin

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Bigger is based on fanbase and popularity not trophies. You're thinking of prestige. That's something different.
Barcelona and Real Madrid are the most followed clubs on all social media platforms, by a big margin.
 

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Bigger is based on fanbase and popularity not trophies. You're thinking of prestige. That's something different.
Maybe we’re discussing 2 different things. I am of course basing my opinion on trophies, players over the decades, but I suspect this 2 clubs also have a strong global fanbase, the rest I agree on terms of global audiences, marketing or revenues England is ahead.
 

Inter Yer Nan

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Here in Los Angeles I’d say 9 out of 10 of the kits or football stuff I see people wear is Barcelona. It’s a massive bandwagon town though. 10 years ago I’d say it was 1 in 10.

What I will add is that most people you talk football with generally prefers the English league and really just watch Barca+ English football.
 

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Being in one of the nicest cities in the world is a huge advantage. Who wouldn't want to live in Barcelona as a millionaire footballer? Unfortunately Manchester can never compete with that. When they need to rebuild they don't have to worry about whether a player wants to come, of course they do. They only have to get the transfer deal done with the club.
 

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I think they (as a fanbase) are going to judge their history before and after Messi. Like we with Ferguson. It's really an unbelivable story. Barca have always managed to bring in top talent even before the 90s (Cruyff and Maradona) but haven't been able to reach the heights where they are now. And after Ronaldinho left nobody could predict Messi would be this good. And its a funny story because despite the large sum of money they spent on superstars Messi was brought in as a kid and through the ranks of the Academy
 
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Rory 7

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All comes down to ownership structure IMO. I always felt Edwards had a chance to really cement his legacy by turning his shares in United into a trust that was based on fan ownership, once we started to dominate he could have done that, our entire ownership model could have been completely different and we potentially could have replicated Barca or even Bayern. We could have remained a football club, rather than a marketing vehicle and cash cow for investment bankers.
 

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They are pretty good to watch which is an integral part of their rise.
 

The Red Thinker

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Barcelona rose to be a superpower on the back of great acquisitions like Ronaldinho, Deco, Et’oo. Then La Masia bloomed. Then it’s all Messi. Without Messi, they are not what they seem. The academy hasn’t produced incredible levels of talent like it did before. Or maybe they did but there was no space with the likes of Suarez in the team. Very good players produced no doubt but not the levels of outstanding talent that a Messi gives.

It would be very interesting to see how they cope without him tbh.
 

King7Eric

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Barcelona and Real Madrid are the most followed clubs on all social media platforms, by a big margin.
I keep hearing this line again and again but it means very little outside of Europe and US. I grew up in India supporting Utd and I'm not on that many social media platforms to follow Utd. It would be the same for many people from India and South East Asia, just because this fad of following your club on social media is much less there. Heck I only joined the CAF in 2016, almost 15 years after I started supporting Utd.

As for how big Barca are, you will still be hard pushed to find Barca fans in Asia which are mostly Utd and Liverpool supporting regions. The worldwide popularity of Barca has increased due to Messi but it's not of the level of Man Utd or Real Madrid.
 

Mrdan1709

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Barcelona have abandoned their tiki taka and seem to play a Mourinho-esque type of football now against big teams. Seems to be working pretty well. Its honestly a pity Tottenham had so much luck against City, i really would have liked to have seen how City and Barca would go. They are easily the two best teams in the world in my opinion.
 

jojojo

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I always viewed them as more or less a parallel club to United in terms of history etc. Giants who went through tough patches (though we actually got relegated in our rough patch). Certainly playing them in Europe always felt like a big deal, and our Cup Winners Cup final win felt like part of that parallel track. The 3-3 group stage match in 98 seemed to sum it up - though that took us to our treble.

Somewhere around when we sold Ronaldo and Messi grew up, they accelerated ahead of us again. But I've never seen them as anything other than a comparable club.

Certainly when I was in Spain, there was no doubt that whoever else was in the mix - La Liga, the TV deals, the fans were split pretty evenly split. Even if Real Madrid's marketing team got a head start on Barca's.

Tbh they don’t stand for mediocrity in any competition. Be it Football, Futsal, Hockey, Basketball, Handball, they try to compete everywhere.
Yep. They're in the Women's Champions League final this year as well.
 

Inter Yer Nan

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I keep hearing this line again and again but it means very little outside of Europe and US. I grew up in India supporting Utd and I'm not on that many social media platforms to follow Utd. It would be the same for many people from India and South East Asia, just because this fad of following your club on social media is much less there. Heck I only joined the CAF in 2016, almost 15 years after I started supporting Utd.

As for how big Barca are, you will still be hard pushed to find Barca fans in Asia which are mostly Utd and Liverpool supporting regions. The worldwide popularity of Barca has increased due to Messi but it's not of the level of Man Utd or Real Madrid.
Definitely where I am it's Barca, Barca, Barca. FAR more than Real Madrid and to be honest every European team combined. I'm not sure I translate Barca's current "fan base" as being bigger though. I think it will be halved when Messi retires and/or they have a dry patch like they did in the early 2000's. Like I said earlier, 10-12 years ago 1 in 10 football kits or t-shirts was Barca here, now it's 9/10. 10/10 on some days. I personally know folks that used to like United more or even Real Madrid more now are Barca fans. What I'd say is (outside of Catalunya) more people like Barca perhaps but more people LOVE United and Real Madrid. As for who's bigger? It's always hard to quantify but sometimes it comes down to who's the most successful team currently.

I always got the impression that Oriental countries and India was more United like you say and I'd assume a lot of old colonies too. United's local fan base has obviously stuck through some tough times and our international fan base has stuck around too. Will Barca's? I don't think so.
 

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Definitely where I am it's Barca, Barca, Barca. FAR more than Real Madrid and to be honest every European team combined. I'm not sure I translate Barca's current "fan base" as being bigger though. I think it will be halved when Messi retires and/or they have a dry patch like they did in the early 2000's. Like I said earlier, 10-12 years ago 1 in 10 football kits or t-shirts was Barca here, now it's 9/10. 10/10 on some days. I personally know folks that used to like United more or even Real Madrid more now are Barca fans. What I'd say is (outside of Catalunya) more people like Barca perhaps but more people LOVE United and Real Madrid. As for who's bigger? It's always hard to quantify but sometimes it comes down to who's the most successful team currently.

I always got the impression that Oriental countries and India was more United like you say and I'd assume a lot of old colonies too. United's local fan base has obviously stuck through some tough times and our international fan base has stuck around too. Will Barca's? I don't think so.
Definitely. I remember there was a video floating around after we beat PSG of Utd fans taking to the street to celebrate in Nigeria I think it was. You'll never see such a hardcore fan base for Barca in Asia or Africa. These regions are dominated by PL clubs.
 

Inter Yer Nan

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Definitely. I remember there was a video floating around after we beat PSG of Utd fans taking to the street to celebrate in Nigeria I think it was. You'll never see such a hardcore fan base for Barca in Asia or Africa. These regions are dominated by PL clubs.
Exactly. The vibe I get off Barca's international fan base is that they are loud and proud when winning but take that away and they won't care. I think as a majority, United fans (Liverpool too TBF) support their club, whereas Barca's international fans support the result. It's like if the Lakers are doing well and championship material everyone is out at the bars following them, wearing the gear but in the shit years barely anything.
 

ThierryFabregas

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When I was growing up watching football in the late 90s/early 00s, I would never have included Barcelona in the giants of football. Certainly not in the same category as Real Madrid, and not even the Italian giants and us.

But now they're almost universally recognised as the 2nd biggest club in the world, after their most bitter rivals. And it hasn't even been that long. They've been immensely successful in that period but have bought in and held onto some of the most famous footballers of this generation. They're probably the most neutrally followed team in the world for the younger age group.

Anyone feel it could've been us had we shown the ambition at the right times? It's almost linked to our success and failures at the same time. Had we signed Ronaldinho would we have been stage for the most popular and entertaining player of the first half of the 00s?

Had we shown the right ambition after the loss in Rome, held onto Ronaldo and went mental to win more CL titles (basically what Madrid did) could we have challenged them as the team of the late 00s and early 10s? We were definitely in a better position than Madrid before they stole our best player from us, and we let them. That Rome final almost feels like the moment that we lost that race.
You'd be very wrong, probably due to only watching the PL, CL and Football Italia. In the early 1990s Barce were by far the best team in Spain during the Cruyff revolution. He revolutionised their playing style and their youth system. He took them to 4 European finals, winning 2 and losing 2, once against United and once against the last great Milan side, playing better football than Milan. That year they beat United 4-0. In the 90s they won 6 out of 10 La Liga titles.

By the time you made your second Champions League final and won it, they'd won one and been to 3 finals. They had 4 Cup Winners Cups and been to 6 finals compared to United's single win. The one they lost against you they had half their starting squad suspended.

Not only that but they always had many of the best players in the world. From the great Laudrup, Stochkov, Romario team to Ronaldo to Rivaldo, Figo, Kluivert to Ronaldinho, Etoo, Xavi and Deco and ofcourse one Diego Maradona.

There were 4 seasons when they didn't win La Liga from 99-04 when both Valencia and Deportivo were very good and during the Galaticos Era. They still drew 3-3 twice in '99 and beat Arsenal convincingly when we were actually good. This was their lowest point but only 3-4 seasons they weren't second and Real, Depor and Valencia were 3 of the best teams in Europe back then.

No I don't think United could have challenged Guardiola's Barce because they were the best side ever. United could have done more if they invested more and invested smarter but you can do this for every team. You've invested enough you just haven't invested it smart enough. I'm not sure United hang onto Ronaldo because he wanted out. He might not have been a happy camper if he stayed.
 

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Give Barcelona 2-3 years and they will need to build a completely new side. Messi, Suarez, Rakitic, Pique, Busquets and Vidal will all be gone - and of course they will still be strong, but some of these players will be almost impossible to replace...Messi, not just ALMOST impossible.
They already are doing. Dembele/Arthur/De Jong/Tobido, heavily linked with De Ligt/Jovic etc. They can sign the best youngsters due to the success they create on the pitch, can't see them slowing down anytime soon personally.
 

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Well...yeah, but then Cruyff was only really in top level management for a decade or so. Whereas Fergie was around for about four. It was natural that he'd spend more time adapting his style and changing his approach as the game changed around him. While it's conceivable Cruyff would've been able to remain brilliant into his later years by retaining his style, it's also possible he'd have come into new difficulties and would've struggled to remain so dominant.
There was no a Fergie style of football unless you call attacking football or counter attacking football Fergie style.
The so called United way is to play attractive football.
Cruijff was different. He had a certain very distinctive style of football. The way all the players move in and out of their space. In short right players at the right time in the right space.
 

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They will become back in line with everyone else once Messi retires.
 

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I personally don't predict their demise once Messi goes, they have enough money to get themselves out of a hole and they've been relatively good with their buys.

I doubt we'll see another great generation of Barca players come through the academy though.
 

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Honestly can't wait for them to plummet from their pedastal when Messi retires. Don't get me wrong, they're very good and have produced some amazing teams, but the holier than thou we are superior even when you beat as attitude just gets me. Of course, Johan Cruyff yada yada yada, totaalvoetbal blabla Dutch legacy etc.

In the end they spend a metric feck ton on players just like everybody else. They complement this feck ton with Lionel Messi though, so that's a bit of an advantage.
 

Devil81

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They have top class players but they are so used to having Messi controlling the show they will no doubt struggle when he retires.

I only have to look at the way he went at Vidal when he didn't shoot to see he walks on water at Barcelona and he controls everything about the club. Vidal wouldn't take that off any other player in the world, he was almost in awe of Messi and didn't argue with him.
 

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Honestly can't wait for them to plummet from their pedastal when Messi retires. Don't get me wrong, they're very good and have produced some amazing teams, but the holier than thou we are superior even when you beat as attitude just gets me. Of course, Johan Cruyff yada yada yada, totaalvoetbal blabla Dutch legacy etc.
Ugh, spoken like a true Feyenoord fan. Yikes :D
 

izec

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They will still be a top club. I like what they are doing, it is like they are preparing for the retirement of the old guard. If they buy De Ligt, they are done defensively for years, after Pique. They need to buy another midfielder or two once Busquets and Rakitic are done. And then for Suarez and Messi another couple of players, but they wont have to replace them all at once, but do it right now already IMO. They have purchased a lot of talented players in the last years and continue to do so, once the old guard leaves, the replacements will be at the club.
 

VorZakone

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They will still be a top club. I like what they are doing, it is like they are preparing for the retirement of the old guard. If they buy De Ligt, they are done defensively for years, after Pique. They need to buy another midfielder or two once Busquets and Rakitic are done. And then for Suarez and Messi another couple of players, but they wont have to replace them all at once, but do it right now already IMO. They have purchased a lot of talented players in the last years and continue to do so, once the old guard leaves, the replacements will be at the club.
They have De Jong, Arthur and Alena as young CM's to take over the current older guard. Maybe even play Coutinho at CM instead of LW.
 

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How do you feel about Ajax most likely returning to a UCL final? Honest question-genuine curiosity.
Think it's amazing and I'd love to see them win it. I'm actually quite disliked on a Dutch footy forum for actively cheering them on in Matchday topics. Also in real life by some of my Feyenoord buddies to be honest, but feck em. What's not to like about this Ajax side. The football's pretty, most of the players are genuinely nice guys and they're still from our tiny country.
 

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Think it's amazing and I'd love to see them win it. I'm actually quite disliked on a Dutch footy forum for actively cheering them on in Matchday topics. Also in real life by some of my Feyenoord buddies to be honest, but feck em. What's not to like about this Ajax side. The football's pretty, most of the players are genuinely nice guys and they're still from our tiny country.
Interesting. I guess the NT is what brings the dutch clubs together. Sometimes it's amazing how Liverpool and Man Utd. english players can play together in England's NT.
 

Sauldogba

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Theyve been a super club ever since i started watching football.
Growing up the biggest clubs for me were Barcelona,United and Madrid in no order.
This was in the 90s.
Nothing has changed.
Well apart from were shit.
 

Sauldogba

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Barcelona rose to be a superpower on the back of great acquisitions like Ronaldinho, Deco, Et’oo. Then La Masia bloomed. Then it’s all Messi. Without Messi, they are not what they seem. The academy hasn’t produced incredible levels of talent like it did before. Or maybe they did but there was no space with the likes of Suarez in the team. Very good players produced no doubt but not the levels of outstanding talent that a Messi gives.

It would be very interesting to see how they cope without him tbh.
I would go back further and say Rivaldo,Enrique and Figo