BBC Sport: La Liga asks Uefa to investigate Man City's financial fair play

Chesterlestreet

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Yep a mostly white supporter base at Old Trafford protesting the clubs very white owners and the debt they put on the club...very racist
They're gingers, though, to be fair. Which was always pointed out (and held against 'em).

And according to some scientists the difference between gingers and, say, strawberry blonds is potentially more significant, genetically speaking, than the superficial difference between a so-called white person and someone with higher melanin levels.

So, racism. Or gingerophobia, at least.
 

KM

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Link please:yawn:
Nah, don't have any inclination to visit that shithole again. The posts quoted here in the meltdown thread is enough of an indication that Bluemoon is full of twats. I've seen enough vile posts there and thus it's easy to imagine that someone there must have come up with that phrase.
 

manunited1919

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We should buy a Spanish Club and use it as a feeder, just like City is doing with Girona. We need to knock Madrid & Barca off their perches.
 

JohnnyKills

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Everyone should embrace the trickle down effects and increased competition that these clubs are bringing, not complain about it being unfair. It's likewise unfair we have a turnover £150m higher than our next domestic rival, so what? Are we as a club clambering to give £150m to Burnley to make things fairer?
United's turnover is so high because the marketing team found a commercial strategy which gave them the jump on everyone else. The club did it through its own efforts, rather than relying on a billionaire benefactor to beam down and pick it out.

It's like saying it's unfair that someone who works hard, invests wisely and comes up with a great business idea makes more money than someone who's lazy and profligate.
 

BobbyManc

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What a complete load or rubbish, clutching at straws here.

People had a big problem in the past when Abromovich went on a spending spree at Chelsea. People must have been doing it because of racism then? The difference between the past and now is that FFP didn't exist therefore there was no rule to break. Rules are potentially being broken, and City owners aren't being accused because of their race. They have broken the rules once before and was nothing to do with racism. It was the fact they they broke the rules set in place.

City have spent £200 million plus for a good few years now. That isn't sustainable for a club such as City. Milan spent £203m but for the 3 seasons prior combined, they spent £120m. City have spent £410m in 2 season compared to Milans £323 in 4 season. Big difference. Milan got rid of 23 players from their books in the transfer window, albeit loans or transfers.

Trying to justify the reason that this has everything to do with race and religion and nothing to do with rule breaches is ludicrous.
Please explain how it is not sustainable? I'd have thought a club that earns hundreds of millions every year and backed by a man with an estimated wealth of around £20bn would be able to sustain spending £200m or so every summer. It seems to have worked without any problems so far. And please explain your view without recourse to the rather silly hypothetical question of 'what if he just decides to leave tomorrow?'.
 

KM

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Regarding FFP, I think they should abolish it now. Every small club should get a chance to improve themselves dramatically now that PSG and City are doing it. As noodlehair said, either you use it completely or don't use it. Half assing it doesn't make sense.
 

M18CTID

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Nah, don't have any inclination to visit that shithole again. The posts quoted here in the meltdown thread is enough of an indication that Bluemoon is full of twats. I've seen enough vile posts there and thus it's easy to imagine that someone there must have come up with that phrase.
Awwww, you should join up - don't worry, I'll look out for you mate
 

Ramshock

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fecking hell, how hard is this?:lol: Where did he mention UEFA? He was talking about opposition fans and people in the media.
The whole issue is FFP and UEFA who gives a feck about what rival fans say they cant influence an investigation? So you are more worried about what others think about your club than you are about them potentially breaking competition rules. Speaks volumes.
 

M18CTID

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The whole issue is FFP and UEFA who gives a feck about what rival fans say they cant influence an investigation? So you are more worried about what others think about your club than you are about them potentially breaking competition rules. Speaks volumes.
I'm not arsed about either to be honest. Just because I pointed it out doesn't mean that I'm more concerned about one than the other. In any case, I think City are well in the clear with regards to FFP these days so why would I be having sleepless nights over that?
 

JPRouve

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Regarding FFP, I think they should abolish it now. Every small club should get a chance to improve themselves dramatically now that PSG and City are doing it. As noodlehair said, either you use it completely or don't use it. Half assing it doesn't make sense.
The problem is that the UEFA are hypocritical, they used the FFP to hurt some clubs but at the same time don't want to do it publicly.

They should clean the FFP, create a genuine accounting administration that helps clubs stay afloat and create an actually assumed anti Sugar daddy act but one that is honest and gives a chance to serious owners.
 

M18CTID

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Nah I'm okay with the Caf mate, but thanks for the offer!
In all seriousness, I do wish we'd get some more United posters on there. JM Mcr used to be a great poster who stood his ground when challenged. Jack The United Fan was polite enough. Only Falcao seems to post on there these days which is a bit of a shame to be honest.
 

JohnnyKills

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Please explain how it is not sustainable?
Whether or not it's sustainable for City is irrelevant. The real question is whether or not it's sustainable for football.

99% of clubs haven't had the good fortune City and PSG have enjoyed. They have to earn their own money and don't have the backing of an entire state.

If City and PSG want to spend £200m a year, who can compete with them? United probably, but only because they've developed such a good commercial model. They've bitten the bullet for the last few years because the squad was a mess, but will the Glazers be able to continue doing it? Personally I'm not sure.

Beyond United, who else can keep up? Real Madrid haven't made a major signing this year or last. Sounds like it's all got a bit too rich for their blood. Barca are in an even worse position - they're massively in debt largely due to the fact that they've had to jack the wages of their star players, all of whom are homegrown, up to obscene levels.

If City and PSG want to keep spending like this (and they will) the other clubs will have to gamble their financial future to keep pace, or fade away. That's the issue. It might be sustainable for City, PSG and the other sugardaddy clubs, but it isn't for everyone else.
 

mad1max954

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I actually do think they have a point. State backed football clubs are wrong- if you look at city's spending over the years it's really incredible. £219m 2017, £191m 2016, £192m 2015 (according to transfermarkt). Everyone knows that they are flagrantly breaking ffp. Their official attendance is like 54k but you see loads of empty seats every game. No way is it legit and It has created an unfair playing field. We are supposed to be the richest club in the world and we couldn't do what they have done.

Granted it is ironic coming from Barca and Madrid but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
 

KM

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In all seriousness, I do wish we'd get some more United posters on there. JM Mcr used to be a great poster who stood his ground when challenged. Jack The United Fan was polite enough. Only Falcao seems to post on there these days which is a bit of a shame to be honest.
I used to visit there quite often two or three years ago. IIRC there was a poster called Tolmie who used to post weird poems and images related to transfers and people used to decipher it.

Anyways I'm sure the people there in real life are lovely but some of the hatred towards United and in particular Ferguson was quite vile.
 

Rob

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Yes, a rich businessman could buy the FC Copenhagen and buy all the best players in the world but since the UEFA competitions are invitation based they could subjectively decide to not invite the team. As for the revenue part, the owner of a company/association is free to invest his own money into his property, the means of a company don't stop at their revenues, not all associations have to be profitable.

The UEFA effectively limits the possibilities of investment and therefore development and that's for the sole benefits of the haves against the have nots. I don't mind it because it's a choice for the clubs, they don't have to follow the rules but there is no moral high grounds in that conversation. No one is better than the other
Thanks!
 

M18CTID

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I used to visit there quite often two or three years ago. IIRC there was a poster called Tolmie who used to post weird poems and images related to transfers and people used to decipher it.

Anyways I'm sure the people there in real life are lovely but some of the hatred towards United and in particular Ferguson was quite vile.
He still does!

Can't deny it gets a bit too tribal on there at times. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that a lot of posters know each other so they end up talking like mates down the pub. For all my bluster on here at times, this is quite a benign site in comparison and if you think my rants on here are bad you should see some of the fall outs I have with blues on BM:lol:
 

Chesterlestreet

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Please explain how it is not sustainable? I'd have thought a club that earns hundreds of millions every year and backed by a man with an estimated wealth of around £20bn would be able to sustain spending £200m or so every summer. It seems to have worked without any problems so far. And please explain your view without recourse to the rather silly hypothetical question of 'what if he just decides to leave tomorrow?'.
Yes - well. This is the crux of it, if you’re regarding FFP as some sort of general “fair play” instrument. Which it isn't, as far as I'm concerned, not if "fair" means "leveling the playing field" or something approaching that.

Nevertheless, in terms of how people (fans) perceive things, if it is considered more “fair” to be richer than your rivals because you have used your fanbase and your success on the pitch to get ahead, City comes out worse looking than United. You can’t deny that, presumably.

However, it seems arbitrary enough as a criterion from a certain angle. If it weren’t for Sky, United wouldn’t have taken the strides we took, regardless of our expansion of Old Trafford. It was the TV thing that got the ball rolling for real, and that wasn’t United’s idea. We capitalized on it, being shrewd, but it wasn’t our brain child.

Still, the difference between United and City is pretty obvious: When Fergie took over, United were an under-performing giant. We had the highest attendance in England in spite of being behind Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal (even Leeds, Forest, Villa, not to mention Derby, arguably also Tottenham) in terms of major trophies in the era after the Busby years. We were a “brand” just waiting to be exploited. City were, let’s be honest, nothing: A mediocre English big club (yes, that’s a category - you had history but were nothing special, below the likes of Newcastle and Sunderland, for instance, in terms of historical significance) whose only claim to fame in recent years was being United’s local rivals.

So, was our success in the Fergie era more “deserved” than yours in the oil era? Meaningless term, obviously. Neither club “deserved” anything from a moral standpoint. But there is - again - an obvious difference: We capitalized on general trends because we were already a giant. You didn’t capitalize on anything - you were simply acquired by a filthy rich party. The only tangible upside you had going for you, compared to other historically significant English football clubs (again, City are among them, I don’t deny that) was the location: You were the rivals of the biggest team in the land, thus making you ideal “noisy neighbours”. Overtaking United, in Manchester, was a goal worth pursuing - much more so than investing in the same, or a similar, manner in some other club on that level.

CAVEAT: The above is, of course, assuming Mansour realized he purchased “City” and not “Manchester” (as United is known as throughout most of the world).
 

Sunny Jim

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Sour grapes IMO.

I'm no fan of City's but I don't see the point in moaning about their financial muscle. Money has always been a big part of football. All the petroclubs have done is take it to the next level. Doesn't matter to me, just makes beating them feel even better.

Of course. It was fair until Spanish goverments (local and central) supported Barca and Madrid. Now, when petrol clubs can nick a player it's unfair. Having saud this- i hope UEFA bans both PSG and City from CL :D
 

el magico

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I actually do think they have a point. State backed football clubs are wrong- if you look at city's spending over the years it's really incredible. £219m 2017, £191m 2016, £192m 2015 (according to transfermarkt). Everyone knows that they are flagrantly breaking ffp. Their official attendance is like 54k but you see loads of empty seats every game. No way is it legit and It has created an unfair playing field. We are supposed to be the richest club in the world and we couldn't do what they have done.

Granted it is ironic coming from Barca and Madrid but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
Sorry to break it to you but City are currently complying with FFP and have done so since the punishment a few years ago. The accounts are audited by a legitimate accountancy firm and comply with EU standards. Uefa investigate those accounts (including the sponsorship levels) and have deemed the accounts (and the sponsorship) legitimate and fully compliant with FFP regulations.

I'm afraid this is factual and no amount of bluster from your high-horse can alter the actual situation.

BTW, Utd had a higher net-spend than City this window and have a higher wage-bill so your club is fully capable of doing 'what they have done'.
 

JPRouve

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Of course. It was fair until Spanish goverments (local and central) supported Barca and Madrid. Now, when petrol clubs can nick a player it's unfair. Having saud this- i hope UEFA bans both PSG and City from CL :D
Racist, they are from Qatar and Abu Dhabi.:D
 

Juanuzayne

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Some sort of hard or at least soft salary cap needs to be incorporated by UEFA. These problems hardly occur in the NFL, and even the NBA to a certain extent. MLB has luxury tax penalties that prevent most teams from spending ridiculous amounts on payroll as well. Football clubs are toys for these oil rich nations. Without a salary cap, they'll continue to spend and lose a few hundred million here and there bc that is just a drop in the bucket.

On a side note, why is that Arab investors are only buying up European clubs? I hardly see them investing in the American sports market. Is it because there are more restrictions in investing in sports franchises here than the UK? How is it that half the prem clubs are owned by foreign investors? Are there no local investors who want to kee ownership of their domestic clubs? Just don't see that in the states with most mainstream franchises here being owned by American billionaires.
 

Kill 'em all

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FFP should be ditched. If an owner wants to spend a lot of cash on players so be it. FFP had a lot to play in the downfall of the Italian league.
 

Revan

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Yes. And?
I find hypocritical a Chelsea fan complaining about other clubs getting money from their owners. Chelsea - the ultimate midtable club - won 4 league titles, an UCL, an Europa League and a dozen lesser trophies, purely because of the money from its owners. Chelsea fans complaining about City and PSG is a bit like Saudi Arabia saying that Qatar funds terrorists, as hypocritical as it can be.
 

Rajma

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Sorry to break it to you but City are currently complying with FFP and have done so since the punishment a few years ago. The accounts are audited by a legitimate accountancy firm and comply with EU standards. Uefa investigate those accounts (including the sponsorship levels) and have deemed the accounts (and the sponsorship) legitimate and fully compliant with FFP regulations.

I'm afraid this is factual and no amount of bluster from your high-horse can alter the actual situation.

BTW, Utd had a higher net-spend than City this window and have a higher wage-bill so your club is fully capable of doing 'what they have done'.
Equivalent of how Russian observers deemed Crimean referendum completely valid.

If you really believe that you're complying with regulations not due to corrupt officials and fictitious deals you're are either being super biased or just plain stupid.
 

finneh

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United's turnover is so high because the marketing team found a commercial strategy which gave them the jump on everyone else. The club did it through its own efforts, rather than relying on a billionaire benefactor to beam down and pick it out.

It's like saying it's unfair that someone who works hard, invests wisely and comes up with a great business idea makes more money than someone who's lazy and profligate.
I can just imagine trying to buy a house and the owner asks me "how did you come to have £500k?". My reply being "family inheritance". Sorry only people who've worked hard for their money can buy this house.

Money is money. Trying to distinguish via some kind of dick measuring contest how deserving someone is of investment or whether it should be allowed via regulation is stupid and fortunately impossible.

Especially so since United's wealth has stemmed from outside investment decades ago.
 

JohnnyKills

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Trying to distinguish via some kind of dick measuring contest how deserving someone is of investment or whether it should be allowed via regulation is stupid and fortunately impossible.

Especially so since United's wealth has stemmed from outside investment decades ago.
1. We're not talking about "how deserving someone is of investment". We're talking about the source of a club's money - which is a pretty important issue if we want to ensure a fair, sustainable playing field.
2. Are you seriously saying United's current financial position is due to the fact that a local businessman pumped money in 75 years ago? The club's post-war boom was built on home-grown players who didn't cost a penny, and we've been through several different eras since.
 

el magico

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Equivalent of how Russian observers deemed Crimean referendum completely valid.

If you really believe that you're complying with regulations not due to corrupt officials and fictitious deals you're are either being super biased or just plain stupid.
Manchester City's accounts are independently audited by BDO Llp to standard EU practices. BDO are the fifth largest professional services network globally (from wikipedia). Uefa's FFP panel is made up of 'qualified experts in the financial (e.g. chartered accountants, auditors) and legal (e.g. qualified lawyers) fields' (source Uefa).

Are you seriously comparing BDO Llp to Russian observers in the Crimea? Are you seriously suggesting BDO Llp employ 'corrupt officials'?

'Plain stupid' indeed.
 

iam_kramer

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Also quite sad, looking at it from another angle, that the head of La Liga would go so out of his way to protect a couple of the league's twenty teams. Everyone knows La Liga is heavily lopsided when it comes to power, but this is quite something.

They are constantly worried about star players leaving, they've said as much and with Ronaldo getting on and with the slight chance of Messi moving on a free next season, they have a right to be wary, but again the stars play for two or three teams and I don't think it should be such a concern for the league as a whole.
 

The Man Himself

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Just lock PSG, City, Real Madrid and Barcelona in a room(metaphorically) and throw away the keys in ocean. The only fair solution here imo.
 

EyeInTheSky

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I can just imagine trying to buy a house and the owner asks me "how did you come to have £500k?". My reply being "family inheritance". Sorry only people who've worked hard for their money can buy this house.

Money is money. Trying to distinguish via some kind of dick measuring contest how deserving someone is of investment or whether it should be allowed via regulation is stupid and fortunately impossible.

Especially so since United's wealth has stemmed from outside investment decades ago.
That's not how it works mate. You don't go to the owner to buy a house you do it via a financial institution. The bank will most fecking definitely ask you and investigate where you got money from and have a load of anti-fraud and money laundering checks on top of all the other legalities.

All in all a Crap analogy.

What is this "outside investment" decades ago and tell us how this in breach of any law whether it existed back then or now?
 

EyeInTheSky

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Not sure why so many people are acting like little brats. Offcourse other clubs are going to act in their interests and ask the question "If we have to abide by rule x, y, z and get punished for breaching them then why are our competitors not under the same scrutiny"

It actually will work in our favour should there be a case to be answered.
 

Paxi

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Don't see why they're blaming City on this. Seems that City are doing everything possible to stay within the FFP. They've got a brilliant academy and training ground that was funded by the 'state' but other than that City have been bankrolled by their own revenue for the past few years.

It's a bit fecking late to report them to UEFA when they've been bought over 8-9 years ago. Status Quo has changed this season.

Barca are acting like a bully on the playground who was pushing everyone around only then to come back one year and get knocked the feck out by the little kid who went and learned Karate all summer from his Japanese uncle.
 
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Red Devil Rising

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Don't see why they're blaming City on this. Seems that City add doing everything possible to stay within the FFP. They've got a brilliant academy and training ground that was funded by the 'state' but other than that City have been bankrolled by their own revenue for the past few years.

It's a bit fecking late to report them to UEFA when they've been bought over 8-9 years ago. Status Quo has changed this season and

Barca are acting like a bully on the playground who was pushing everyone only then to come back one year and get knocked the feck out by the little kid who went and learned Karate all summer from his Japanese uncle.
Had they got Sanchez they'd have hit £300 million in one window. You think that's normal? Add Evans too that figure too