Being David Moyes

[SER19]

I dont intend to start playing the blame game with this thread but take a minute to imagine you are david moyes right now. He has worked incredibly hard to get where he is in the game. He was an unknown footballer who went on to achieve alot with everton, gain incredible respect from his peers and even be voted LMA manager of the year 3 times was it? Its a good career in anybodys book and anybody who read the articles about him at the time of his appointment know that hes come a long way from sleeping in his car at France 98 to where he is now. It is undeniable at this stage that he seems out of his depth but he is trying his best to do a difficult job and he's done it with dignity so far.

Which brings me to my main point, that despite all of his obvious failings, which are many and Im not trying to say he shouldnt be blamed- but if you took the average fan from the street, me for example, and put me in charge of man utd for a few games, even with my primitive knowledge, I do not expect we would be anywhere near as bad as we are now. The players prepared themselves for failure and seemed happy to see the manager take the bullet.

David Moyes knows the game better than every one of us put together, there is no doubt about that. He is a good manager, whether you like him or dont. With all of that in mind, it is blatanly 100% undeniable that he has been horribly failed by almost every player in the side. Senior players right down to young players, Ive been so unimpressed with them this season its unreal. For the likes of Vidic to be leaving united and his success seemingly forgotten by many speaks volumes about how poor and unlikeable many attitudes have been this season. Some of the behaviour off field too has been so unacceptable. Oh javier hernandez is unhappy from pretty much day one, well guess what?get your head down and earn your place, rally around your manager and watch good things happen. Dont act like a child on bloody instagram and twitter, Manchester United is too big for that. ditto zaha.

In Greece, as today, we saw two teams line up with not much between them but in both cases the opposition out ran, out fought and outdid everything we did. The players have let down Moyes massively and privately I bet he's shocked.

Whether you think he should be sacked is not the issue. Take away your emotion and think rationally, and think of some of the individual catastrophes weve seen this season. The players should feel at least a bit ashamed for letting down their manager, whoever that may be and those fans that stayed behind chanting today.

 

[Sixpence]

I sort of feel sorry for him until I remember the money he actually gets paid to serve up these weekly shit sarnies.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I don't feel sorry for him in the slightest. I feel angry at him. He's pathetic.

He came in to the job with completely the wrong attitude and has failed spectacularly.

 

[Stookie]

maybe it is the players, but the buck stops with him. Its almost as if he is telling them to play football in a way they are completely unfamiliar and uncomfortable with.

 

[Sultan]

Seven threads on the front discussing our management, present or future.

 

[Cal?]

Blame the players? Now why are those players playing badly? Do they just have it in for Moyes? You make it sound like the plyaers are sabotaging Moyes on purpose. Would it be because these are top players who know what top managers are like and do not like what they see? Do you honestly think we play hoof and cross because the players want to do it, or was it Moyes who instructed them to do it?

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

Even the staunchest Moyesian tragedy denier could not try to claim that today Moyes's tactics and reaction to the problems caused by those tactics were not the main reasons that we were humbled.

Gary Neville may try to deny that Moyes gets anything wrong but he identified the tactical failings in our team after about 10 minutes. Moyes didn't change the tactics all game as we were completely overrun in midfield.

His substitutions were absurd. Fellani and the long ball were the only thing that worked for us today and then he brings on Cleverley. Now I feel sorry for Cleverley as he came on all enthusiastic tried some passing triangles that failed, we lost the ball and conceded the third penalty straight away. Cleverley then disappeared into hiding for the rest of the game.

Wait till 75 mins of that horror show to make a change!?

Moyes is significantly remunerated for his work at Manchester United. He needs to start earning his money. I have no sympathy.

 

[askabob]

Consider the fact that he's being paid £5 million a year, and tell me if you still feel sorry for him.

 

[Buchan]

I dont intend to start playing the blame game with this thread but take a minute to imagine you are david moyes right now. He has worked incredibly hard to get where he is in the game. He was an unknown footballer who went on to achieve alot with everton, gain incredible respect from his peers and even be voted LMA manager of the year 3 times was it? Its a good career in anybodys book and anybody who read the articles about him at the time of his appointment know that hes come a long way from sleeping in his car at France 98 to where he is now. It is undeniable at this stage that he seems out of his depth but he is trying his best to do a difficult job and he's done it with dignity so far.

Which brings me to my main point, that despite all of his obvious failings, which are many and Im not trying to say he shouldnt be blamed- but if you took the average fan from the street, me for example, and put me in charge of man utd for a few games, even with my primitive knowledge, I do not expect we would be anywhere near as bad as we are now. The players prepared themselves for failure and seemed happy to see the manager take the bullet.

David Moyes knows the game better than every one of us put together, there is no doubt about that. He is a good manager, whether you like him or dont. With all of that in mind, it is blatanly 100% undeniable that he has been horribly failed by almost every player in the side. Senior players right down to young players, Ive been so unimpressed with them this season its unreal. For the likes of Vidic to be leaving united and his success seemingly forgotten by many speaks volumes about how poor and unlikeable many attitudes have been this season. Some of the behaviour off field too has been so unacceptable. Oh javier hernandez is unhappy from pretty much day one, well guess what?get your head down and earn your place, rally around your manager and watch good things happen. Dont act like a child on bloody instagram and twitter, Manchester United is too big for that. ditto zaha.

In Greece, as today, we saw two teams line up with not much between them but in both cases the opposition out ran, out fought and outdid everything we did. The players have let down Moyes massively and privately I bet he's shocked.

Whether you think he should be sacked is not the issue. Take away your emotion and think rationally, and think of some of the individual catastrophes weve seen this season. The players should feel at least a bit ashamed for letting down their manager, whoever that may be and those fans that stayed behind chanting today.

Terrific OP.

Fully in agreement on this one. Moyes has been disappointing but he's also been let down multiple times by this squad of 'superstars'.

Privately he must be absolutely fuming. Had a chat with a mate today and we both concurred Moyes has to give the squad both barrels now. He has no choice. The squad need to know who's in charge. Vidic should have been fücked off in January, for one. The under-performers such as van Persie, Evra and Carrick also need to a good kick into the nutsack and a good dose of reality.

Moyes has to decide if he wants to accept his fate or whether to fight on his back. That's the most disappointing aspect of Moyes' reign, for me. I was expecting him to be more stoic and commanding; instead we've only seen a meek and mild Moyes.

 

[Sultan]

Seven threads on the front discussing our management, present or future.

I forgot the angry old man thread. Make that 8 threads on the same subject.

 

[Walrus]

maybe it is the players, but the buck stops with him.

This is the truth of it.

I understand and agree with what the OP is saying - the players have not done Moyes any favours whatsoever, but how has he then responded? He has been far too slow to react both in short term (eg substitutions) and long term (eg dropping players altogether). He needed to come in and be strong, to establish his authority straight away and make sure that all the players knew that if they didnt perform they would be out on their asses.

Unfortunately before the season had even began, he already looked anything but confident and authoritative. The transfer window did not help him, and essentially the players dont fear him - and he hasnt given them any reason to fear him.

Both parties are to blame - manager and players - but the buck has to stop with David Moyes, unfortunately for him. If he is sacked, he can feel a bit hard done by, but his own performance and attitude was not right, from the start.

 

[NoLogo]

The main problem for Moyes atm is that he isn't Ferguson. Ferguson's authority was and respect from the players gave him such immense control over the players and the entire club. But it's no wonder Fergie was/is one of the most charismatic figures in world football.

Now imagine you have played the major part of your career under such and impressive man and along comes bland, soft spoken, calm Dithering Dave. From day one he didn't have the respect of the players or the staff it seems. Stuff was leaked to the press about transfers, players complaining about the training or the tactics and the team selection or twittering and facebooking their frustrations all over the place. It started after he took over and is still going on because he doesn't has the respect of the players.

Of course it's not his fault that he isn't Fergie and that he may come across as a bit of defeatist but how could we not see and with we I actually mean Fergie and the rest of our board, that his lack of charisma and personality would become a real problem for him when it comes to keeping his players and staff in check. I have little doubt that Meulensteen had to go because he questioned Moyes every idea and decision from day one and after not being handed an important role within the staff he decided to leave Manchester United while taking a swipe at Moyes on his way out.

I pity Moyes to some extend. He doesn't deserve to be treated like that but it's also his own fault. After the first sign of disrespect he should have punished those who went over the line but he probably was afraid to upset people at the club that offered him the chance of a life time.

At this moment he has but one chance. Get rid of everyone who isn't on his side and feels the need to disrespect him or resign at the end of the season because if he thinks he can keep going like he has done so far and everything will magically solve it self if he just keeps on working hard we will only experience more of what we have seen so far until the board decides they are fed up with him.

 

[Name Changed]

Moyes is responsible for his own failings. It's his responsibility to make sure the players are playing for him, it's his responsibility to ensure the players have complete faith and trust in him.

I don't feel sorry for him. I'm sure he's a nicy guy and he has done ok for himself, but as soon as he went in to the club he had the wrong attitude and it showed. He doesn't learn from his mistakes, he just repeats them. Over and over again.

 

[Amir]

I do feel sorry for him. Yeah, he's set up for life and all that, but this is his one huge break and it's going to kill any chance he has to manage at this level again. But, if you're not good enough, you just don't belong there.

I don't understand this season, I don't understand this man. At times, it's like we've selected an absolute novice. When he said in September "people told him" about Hernandez abilities such as his constant movement, I couldn't get it. Have you never seen him in action? In training? Of course you have. It's like when he came to United he erased his football memory and started from scratch. Well, it seems like that as well.

 

[RoadTrip]

I feel sorry for him in that he is clearly out of his depth.

He is obviously a hard worker. He has a great passion for football and he tries desperately hard. If someone offers you the United job you don't say no. It's not his fault he is in the job.

That said, he has been the architect of his own downfall at times. Some decisions have been ridiculous.

As fans it's easy for us to say he's shit and he can't handle it. It's easy for us to say because he is a manager he should be able to handle the limelight and what not. He's done absolutely shit for us and I will not forget that, but the human and heart inside me can't help but feel sorry for the guy when you have millions and millions of people analysing his every move. We all go to sleep in relative peace. Just spend a second thinking about what must he be feeling every day when he gets home and when he hops into bed. Frightening really.

 

[gza the genius]

It's Moyes' job to motivate the players. Yes, I do expect more from our players but at the end of the day that's Moyes' responsibility. He's singe handedly taken us from a team that absolutely never gave up to a bunch of scared, effortless, passionless players. We have absolutely no confidence whatsoever and it comes straight from Moyes.

Loads of people slagged off Rafael today but he was the only player for us who seemed even remotely interested in the game. His passion gets him in to trouble at times but it's that kind of passion that we're missing in this team and Moyes simply hasn't been able to inspire that.

I do sort've feel sorry for him though. Mostly because of how pathetically out of his depth he seems at all times. He always looks so sad and defeated, it's his own fault though.

 

[SER19]

Moyes is responsible for his own failings. It's his responsibility to make sure the players are playing for him, it's his responsibility to ensure the players have complete faith and trust in him.

I don't feel sorry for him. I'm sure he's a nicy guy and he has done ok for himself, but as soon as he went in to the club he had the wrong attitude and it showed. He doesn't learn from his mistakes, he just repeats them. Over and over again.

while i agree alot with you, you seriously cant believe a manager is solely responsible for motivating a bunch of professionals getting paid millions a year? i understnad fully the effect that motivation, lack of confidence etc has but come on, lets not take the piss. i dont think the players "dont care" but I 100% believe that today they didnt care as much as the liverpool players and thats what counts. you have to have very little pride in yourself to allow john fecking flanagan go on a few dribbles up the field and get repeatedy beaten to 50/50 balls by the likes of him. the same against a pub team in greece a few weeks ago.

this is not aimed at you specifically but i absolutely hate that line that gets peddled about it being the manager who has to motivate the players. if they cant motivate themselves too then we should just pack it in altogether. it makes no sense and anybody that says it is massively simplifying the relationship between players and managers.

 

[KeninDC]

When the gods wish to punish us they answer our prayers.
Oscar Wilde

This will be Moyes's epithet. He got his wish-and now will have to live with the realization that he is a failure at the highest level of his profession.

 

[Amadaeus]

Moyes should call up our reserve team if he think these players has let him down. Yet, he is most likely going to offer Van Persie a 400k and Januzaj a 200k contract by season ends.

 

[TheNewEra]

I could set up the team to be better tactically, honestly I could, play balanced football that's good to watch, but also water tight at the back, not recycling the same tactic every week.

I could also utilize the players much better, he gets payed that money to do poor performances, the players have well and truly given up.

 

[An Irish Red]

I don't feel sorry for him in the slightest. I feel angry at him. He's pathetic.

He came in to the job with completely the wrong attitude and has failed spectacularly.

That's the way I'm feeling as well. Everyone says what a nice man he is but I can honestly see myself despising him when this is all over. It's not right like but that's what will happen probably.

Gormless in the face of utter failure is a maddening trait.

 

[SER19]

I could set up the team to be better tactically, honestly I could, play balanced football that's good to watch, but also water tight at the back, not recycling the same tactic every week.

I could also utilize the players much better, he gets payed that money to do poor performances, the players have well and truly given up.

and any that have should be out the door as quick as the manager.

 

[Name Changed]

while i agree alot with you, you seriously cant believe a manager is solely responsible for motivating a bunch of professionals getting paid millions a year? i understnad fully the effect that motivation, lack of confidence etc has but come on, lets not take the piss. i dont think the players "dont care" but I 100% believe that today they didnt care as much as the liverpool players and thats what counts. you have to have very little pride in yourself to allow john fecking flanagan go on a few dribbles up the field and get repeatedy beaten to 50/50 balls by the likes of him. the same against a pub team in greece a few weeks ago.

this is not aimed at you specifically but i absolutely hate that line that gets peddled about it being the manager who has to motivate the players. if they cant motivate themselves too then we should just pack it in altogether. it makes no sense and anybody that says it is massively simplifying the relationship between players and managers.

I do agree that it is the players' responsibility to be up for the game or whatever also. But ultimately the buck has to stop with Moyes. It's not just one game. He has presided over some of the worst results we have had in years, losing at home to Newcastle and Everton for the first time in how many years being examples. Today is not the first game that the players look like they lacked effort.

In relation to the team, it has no shape, no gameplan. They are slow and stagnant. Everything is predictable. I really don't believe the players are choosing to play this way. Moyes sets the team up a certain way and that's it. There is no leeway, players are to perform a task and that's it. The plan doesn't deviate, changed aren't made until it's too late. It's happened all season. It reminds me of exactly how ireland were when Trapattoni was in charge.

To be honest, I fully expected us to get whipped today. I've said it all week. I expected more than 3. The only thing we had to play for today was to attempt to stifle Liverpool's bid for the title. That's it. That kind of thing seems to bother the fans more than the players. Would the likes of RVP and Rafael really care who wins it between Chelsea or Liverpool, etc... I don't know. We had nothing to play for but to help stop Liverpool winning the title. Our pride has been lost a long time ago already.

I do think it's up to the players also to motivate themselves. But it's also up to the manager. The players have to want to play for the manager, they have to believe in the manager. If not, then there is no hope. And personally I cannot see anything whatsoever that shows any single one of those players wants to play for a David Moyes team. That's just how it looks to me anyway. No heart, no bottle, no determination, no anything. Likewise, no tactics, no gameplan, no adaption, nothing.

It's sickening in every aspect and it will only get worse.

 

[SER19]

I do agree that it is the players' responsibility to be up for the game or whatever also. But ultimately the buck has to stop with Moyes. It's not just one game. He has presided over some of the worst results we have had in years, losing at home to Newcastle and Everton for the first time in how many years being examples. Today is not the first game that the players look like they lacked effort.

In relation to the team, it has no shape, no gameplan. They are slow and stagnant. Everything is predictable. I really don't believe the players are choosing to play this way. Moyes sets the team up a certain way and that's it. There is no leeway, players are to perform a task and that's it. The plan doesn't deviate, changed aren't made until it's too late. It's happened all season. It reminds me of exactly how ireland were when Trapattoni was in charge.

To be honest, I fully expected us to get whipped today. I've said it all week. I expected more than 3. The only thing we had to play for today was to attempt to stifle Liverpool's bid for the title. That's it. That kind of thing seems to bother the fans more than the players. Would the likes of RVP and Rafael really care who wins it between Chelsea or Liverpool, etc... I don't know. We had nothing to play for but to help stop Liverpool winning the title. Our pride has been lost a long time ago already.

I do think it's up to the players also to motivate themselves. But it's also up to the manager. The players have to want to play for the manager, they have to believe in the manager. If not, then there is no hope. And personally I cannot see anything whatsoever that shows any single one of those players wants to play for a David Moyes team. That's just how it looks to me anyway. No heart, no bottle, no determination, no anything. Likewise, no tactics, no gameplan, no adaption, nothing.

It's sickening in every aspect and it will only get worse.

your 100% in your summary of our tactics and gameplan and basic lack of shape. but take those games you mention, watch the newcastle goal and tell me tom cleverley's blatant lazy attempt to track cabaye should fall at moyes' feet. likewise valencia at the back post versus everton. the fact that when fergie got it horribly wrong sometimes but we didnt see this level of apathy is testament to the fact that the players are failing the club also.

 

[Hannibal]

I don't feel sorry for him one jot. If i keep failing simple tasks in my office, my employers would fire me without remorse.

Moyes should have known he's not cut for this job. He should have declined Fergie's offer respectfully. He's got no idea & i shudder to think what his team talk is like.

Sometimes the words & the belief you put into your players is the difference between winning & losing. Even when we were down to bare bones, Fergie made JS Park, OShea, Fletcher, etc perform like world class players atimes. I doubt you can get such level of inspiration from Moyes.


If he has any decorum left in him & if he truly loves this club & their fans, he should tender his resignation tomorrow morning. Not every relationship works to one's expectation. This our marriage to Moyes has failed woefully!

 

[NinjaFletch]

Am I the only one that would like to see him just do SOMETHING?

He's the most drab and dreary man in the world.

Just lay into the players, shout a bit, show some passion, show some conviction, say its not good enough. That you know whats wrong and you'll make it better. Pick the same team when we play well (why was Smalling dropped?), drop a superstar, tell us what was wrong last season that you're changing.

Just look like you're not scared to be Man United manager, something, anything.

 

[TheNewEra]

I don't feel sorry for him one jot. If i keep failing simple tasks in my office, my employers would fire me without remorse.

Moyes should have known he's not cut for this job. He should have declined Fergie's offer respectfully. He's got no idea & i shudder to think what his team talk is like.

Sometimes the words & the belief you put into your players is the difference between winning & losing. Even when we were down to bare bones, Fergie made JS Park, OShea, Fletcher, etc perform like world class players atimes. I doubt you can get such level of inspiration from Moyes.


If he has any decorum left in him & if he truly loves this club & their fans, he should tender his resignation tomorrow morning. Not every relationship works to one's expectation. This our marriage to Moyes has failed woefully!

No wonder so many relationships end in divorce.

 

[Name Changed]

your 100% in your summary of our tactics and gameplan and basic lack of shape. but take those games you mention, watch the newcastle goal and tell me tom cleverley's blatant lazy attempt to track cabaye should fall at moyes' feet. likewise valencia at the back post versus everton. the fact that when fergie got it horribly wrong sometimes but we didnt see this level of apathy is testament to the fact that the players are failing the club also.

Ferguson got a hell of a lot of things wrong to be fair.

Players make mistakes all the time. Moyes is not responsible for individual mistakes. Those same players made plenty of mistakes under ferguson as well.

For me, the difference is that under Ferguson, we'd always come back. Ferguson, or the players, would pick themselves up and more often than not come back and get something. Once Newcastle and Everton went ahead in those games, I personally didn't really think we'd come back to win or even draw. I would never have said that under ferguson. If we weren't playing well or were losing, Ferguson usually knew what to do or what to change. I don't see that with Moyes. It was blatantly obvious today that he simply had no idea what to do. And it's been the same in so many other games this season.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not absolving the players of all blame or anything of the sort. I think some of them are an absolute disgrace.

 

[Sixpence]

Am I the only one that would like to see him just do SOMETHING?

He's the most drab and dreary man in the world.

Just lay into the players, shout a bit, show some passion, show some conviction, say its not good enough. That you know whats wrong and you'll make it better. Pick the same team when we play well (why was Smalling dropped?), drop a superstar, tell us what was wrong last season that you're changing.

Just look like you're not scared to be Man United manager, something, anything.

This is a big issue. He's shit scared to do anything and the players know that. They know he's out of his depth. End this nightmare now ffs.

 

[Name Changed]

Am I the only one that would like to see him just do SOMETHING?

He's the most drab and dreary man in the world.

Just lay into the players, shout a bit, show some passion, show some conviction, say its not good enough. That you know whats wrong and you'll make it better. Pick the same team when we play well (why was Smalling dropped?), drop a superstar, tell us what was wrong last season that you're changing.

Just look like you're not scared to be Man United manager, something, anything.

I'm the same. He just does nothing. He's a deer caught in the headlights. He even looks like that. The one thing I thought he would bring was passion. All the passion seems to be gone.

 

[alastair]

I feel sorry for him as a guy who is just completely out of his depth in the job he's in.

It doesn't matter what he's paid. No-one wants to go to work every day and be told that he's awful by every single person in his office.

Sometimes I think people forget that there's an actual human being in charge of United, not some malfunctioning robot.

 

[Wowi]

Terrific OP.

Fully in agreement on this one. Moyes has been disappointing but he's also been let down multiple times by this squad of 'superstars'.

Privately he must be absolutely fuming. Had a chat with a mate today and we both concurred Moyes has to give the squad both barrels now. He has no choice. The squad need to know who's in charge. Vidic should have been fücked off in January, for one. The under-performers such as van Persie, Evra and Carrick also need to a good kick into the nutsack and a good dose of reality.

Moyes has to decide if he wants to accept his fate or whether to fight on his back. That's the most disappointing aspect of Moyes' reign, for me. I was expecting him to be more stoic and commanding; instead we've only seen a meek and mild Moyes.

That's one of the things though. RvP has been poor for a while, and Welbeck has looked good every time he's come on, so continuously playing RvP isn't exactly making Moyes look better. He seems to stick with the "star players" regardless of how they actually play (evident again today by the complete lack of action for the first 75 minutes of the game), which, for me, is a sign that he's out of his depth.

His comments in the media is another thing. I normally don't really care about that, but he's making it very hard to ignore. Talking about "making it hard for the opponent", "United being the underdog" and what not is a shit mentality for a United manager.

 

[Kag]

What a load of bollocks. Sorry, but I couldn't give a rats arse if little Davey was sleeping in his car - bless the woe-stricken professional footballer - and climbed to the top of the mountain.

Players have let him down? His moronity has let them down. He has taken a group of winners and week after week, whether he's belittled them in the press or instructed them to play in a way we all know isn't working, stifled them, let them down and overseen a media narrative which has led to this very questioning from here, there and everywhere. Well I'm not having it.

When you're questioning the attitude of Javier frickin' Hernandez then you need to take a long, hard look at the reality, not some self-indulgent, player-bashing alternative universe whereby you pretend that these players just simply don't care.

Our players weren't "outfought" today. No, they were comprehensively taken apart by a better football team, one that is confident, one that plays like a unit, and one that plays that very way because Brendan Rodgers and his staff have had the bollocks, imagination and talent to go in there and make it happen. Jordan Henderson was shite not so long ago. A laughing stock. What's changed? Did his attitude change, was he "shaming" himself in the you say that our champions have done? Or, more realistically, has his manager built up his confidence and created a team in which the lad can flourish? Hm.

Thankfully, most other supporters are now beginning to see what's really going on. The personal attacks on our players are not as common because people are realising there is systematic failures in place, failures that would render Leo Messi a parody of himself, just like it has with practically every top player in our current squad.

David Moyes was presented an incredible opportunity. He's met that with fear, naivety, stubbornness and actually managed to take United to depths we thought were unthinkable. The players make mistakes, the players are a part of this, but the Moyes sob story presented above is just not the case whatsoever. This is his fault, his responsibility and his repeated pursuit of utter stupidity, whether it be interviews, team selections or substitutions, is the reason we are where we are. Moyes is privately shocked? Yeah, and so are the players.

 

[Sky1981]

I dont intend to start playing the blame game with this thread but take a minute to imagine you are david moyes right now. He has worked incredibly hard to get where he is in the game. He was an unknown footballer who went on to achieve alot with everton, gain incredible respect from his peers and even be voted LMA manager of the year 3 times was it? Its a good career in anybodys book and anybody who read the articles about him at the time of his appointment know that hes come a long way from sleeping in his car at France 98 to where he is now. It is undeniable at this stage that he seems out of his depth but he is trying his best to do a difficult job and he's done it with dignity so far.

Which brings me to my main point, that despite all of his obvious failings, which are many and Im not trying to say he shouldnt be blamed- but if you took the average fan from the street, me for example, and put me in charge of man utd for a few games, even with my primitive knowledge, I do not expect we would be anywhere near as bad as we are now. The players prepared themselves for failure and seemed happy to see the manager take the bullet.

David Moyes knows the game better than every one of us put together, there is no doubt about that. He is a good manager, whether you like him or dont. With all of that in mind, it is blatanly 100% undeniable that he has been horribly failed by almost every player in the side. Senior players right down to young players, Ive been so unimpressed with them this season its unreal. For the likes of Vidic to be leaving united and his success seemingly forgotten by many speaks volumes about how poor and unlikeable many attitudes have been this season. Some of the behaviour off field too has been so unacceptable. Oh javier hernandez is unhappy from pretty much day one, well guess what?get your head down and earn your place, rally around your manager and watch good things happen. Dont act like a child on bloody instagram and twitter, Manchester United is too big for that. ditto zaha.

In Greece, as today, we saw two teams line up with not much between them but in both cases the opposition out ran, out fought and outdid everything we did. The players have let down Moyes massively and privately I bet he's shocked.

Whether you think he should be sacked is not the issue. Take away your emotion and think rationally, and think of some of the individual catastrophes weve seen this season. The players should feel at least a bit ashamed for letting down their manager, whoever that may be and those fans that stayed behind chanting today.

There is no doubt about that, but the thing is, we shouldn't compare him to average joes, we should compare him to his peers (mourinho, Pep, Klopp, ETC) and at the end of the days, they know more about football than all of us put together, and still knows more about football than Moyes.
It's moot to compare him with just fans, he should be compared to the other dudes that's equally good enough

 

[.Rossi]

Anyone who bought Red Issue today, can you tell me what was said in it?

Saw some stories that it consisted of, Giggs thinking Moyes is a clown and Fergie been close to getting rid

 

[TheNewEra]

Anyone who bought Red Issue today, can you tell me what was said in it?

Saw some stories that it consisted of, Giggs thinking Moyes is a clown and Fergie been close to getting rid

Any direct quotes?

 

[.Rossi]

Any direct quotes?

Nope...Just all over Twitter from people who have read it.

Apparently, Giggs never showed at coaching meetings organised by Moyes. Doesn't rate him at all apparently and the word "clown" is been used a lot in reference to Giggs' opinion on him.

 

[Andrew~]

The players should feel at least a bit ashamed for letting down their manager, whoever that may be and those fans that stayed behind chanting today.

The players have 'failed Moyes' by not winning with his poor coaching and crap tactics?

 

[TheNewEra]

The players have 'failed Moyes' by not winning with his poor coaching and crap tactics?

Explains why RVP cant finish this year, doesnt have any of the ball in training with all the fitness exercises, comes onto the pitch like... what we are playing football? I thought this was a marathon

 

[RustyS]

Explains why RVP cant finish this year, doesnt have any of the ball in training with all the fitness exercises, comes onto the pitch like... what we are playing football? I thought this was a marathon

Sarcasm?

Maybe the pressure of getting one chance every blue moon is getting to him. Do you not watch matches? Do you not see the pathetic service he's getting? IMO he's done tremendously well to have the amount of goals he has in the league.

The guy who was scoring for fun in the last two years didn't just turn to shit. Some of you have ridiculously short memories.

And if we were to concede that RVP has somehow turned to shit, what does that make Moyes for consistently picking him to start? What does it make him when he refuses to sub him out because he's scared of what the press/fans would say?