Hah No Comparison at all.
Henry over Berbatov any day of the week.
Henry over Berbatov any day of the week.
Berbatov or Henry?
- Thread starter GlastonSpur
- Start date
Ah well, I guess my hopes for just a poll rather than a debate were always unrealistic, so I might as well join in.
You can pick out 12 from the league if you wish, but in all competitions he scored 23 goals with 15 assists .. on average very nearly a goal or an assist for every game he started, right across the entire season.
And none of his goals - in the league or otherwise - were penalties.
Henry had 20 goals and 7 assists in all competitions despite being sidelined for that long.
20 goals???
He scored 10 in the league with a lot of them being penalties and one in the fa cup.
He's not in the top goalscoring charts of the CL either...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League_2006-07#Top_scorers
So where did you get these 20 goals from?
He scored 10 in the league with a lot of them being penalties and one in the fa cup.
He's not in the top goalscoring charts of the CL either...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League_2006-07#Top_scorers
So where did you get these 20 goals from?
You've included internationals, not just club goals. I didn't do the same with Berbatov's figures.
In club games Henry scored 12 goals with 7 assists in all competitions, compared to 23 and 15 for Berbatov.
Berbatov had nearly double the goals and more than double the assists, even without the benefit of being our penalty taker.
So you're counting Internationals aswell eh, if you do that for Berbatov he's scored 30 goals this season.
And he didn't appear in the WC either.
Tevez is a level above Berbatov, has a pedigree to him prior to going to the PL Berbatov does not and Owen has never and will never be on Henry's level.
In other words, your comparison is way off.
I'd just like to know what Berbatov has done to be mentioned in the same breath as Henry.
those are the stats for henry last season despite being injured for much of the season. if you don't want to include the internationals fine,
Berbatov scored only 12 goals in the league compared to Henry's 10, despite playing double the number of games Henry did. Not very impressive, is it?
A spurs fan is trying to wank over Berbatov by comparing him to their bitter rival's top striker and ask United fans as to who they'd prefer, and no need to point out, the wanking hasn't been that satisfying
Berbatov was the 2nd highest scorer in the Bundesliga in the season before to coming to Spurs and has played in the Champions League. Is that not some degree of prior pedigree?
I don't want to get side-tracked into a Tevez debate, but if he's a 'level above Berbatov', then that certainly isn't reflected in the goals and assists tally for both players last season.
Don't you think you might be confusing past glories with present day realities?
My original question concerned who would be preferred as a signing now.
What a ridiculous thread. Berbatov has been in the Prem for one season. One season.
Henry is probably the best player the Premiership has seen.
Henry is probably the best player the Premiership has seen.
Henry.
Without question.
Without question.
Trying to sneak in international goals for Henry didn't work too well did it?
So now you're back to trying to pick a limited range of stats from last season because they suit your argument better, and ignoring the bigger picture and more complete club-based stats because they don't suit your case.
In any case, how many of Henry's 10 goals were penalties?
23 goals and 15 assists is impressive to me ... can't help it if you don't think so.
Did you start watching football since 2002 or somehting?
So so ignorant to claim Henry's been the best ever, bullshit.
Indeed you are correct - you never lose class. What you do lose as you get older (and especially after a run of injuries) is a yard of pace. For a player like Henry that could be very significant.
Scholes is a different case. His time out was caused by blurred vison, not a bad knee/ankle/whatever. As such, once his vision was sorted he could easily get back to his best. Scholes also doesn't rely on pace as a big part of his game.
Having said that I'd personally still take Henry over Berbatov in the short term.
'Has' - past tense - being the operative word, even for those who agree with your 'best player' assessment.
The question concerned who would be the preferred signing now
you're the one who said the stats for ALL COMPETITIONS, so don't accuse me of 'sneaking in international goals' unless you're a hypocrite.
Henry played very few cup games, Wenger sent the youngsters in the cup games like Aliadier, the league would be the appropriate competition to focus on as it's the one he regularly tried to play in, at least as far as the injuries permitted him. Also, you have to keep in mind that Berbatov played at least double the number of games Henry did, something you intentionally leave out to make Berbatov's stats look better.
I don't have the stats on how many penalties he took, but penalties also count as goals, and for some strikers they're more difficult to score because of the mental pressure involved. If Berbatov is good enough to take pens, why doesn't he? It's a pathetic excuse to say he didn't score pens.
12 goals of Berbatov in the league versus henry's 10 goals isn't very impressive at all when Berbatov has played double the number of games henry has, but I understand you are a spurs fan and bitter rivals with the gooners and trying hard to wank over your player, I understand
Thierry Henry
You are wasting your time debating the obvious with Glaston, he is even of the belief that Berbatov is better than Rooney.12 goals of Berbatov in the league versus henry's 10 goals isn't very impressive at all when Berbatov has played double the number of games henry has, but I understand you are a spurs fan and bitter rivals with the gooners and trying hard to wank over your player, I understand
Yes I have.
Did you start watching football since 2002 or somehting?
So so ignorant to claim Henry's been the best ever, bullshit.
So who has been better? Cantona perhaps or Shearer?
So who do you regard as having been or is better than Henry in the Premiership?
Did you start watching football since 2002 or somehting?
So so ignorant to claim Henry's been the best ever, bullshit.
King Eric and Giggsy should definetly be ahead of him.
Shearer also has a case but i'd probably put Henry ahead of him as he's actually contributed to 2 of Arsenals title wins.
Shearer also has a case but i'd probably put Henry ahead of him as he's actually contributed to 2 of Arsenals title wins.
What I don't get is that a striker scores 23 goals and has 15 assists in all competitions in a season and all over sudden he is the best ? and this is after playing in almost all games for Spurs. Weird world
Blinkers aside mate, Cantona was/is not better than Henry, Giggs spent a significant part of his early career injured to fully leave a lasting imprint, and as for Shearer, he was just about goals and plus he had more seasons to prove himself than Henry. Mind you Henry scored 174 premiership goals since 1999
The phrase 'all competitions' is generally acknowedged as meaning all competitive games - domestic and European - for a particular club, as I'm sure you know well.
It doesn't normally mean internationals as well, and nor did you say that you'd included international goals when you made your post about Henry's '20 goal' tally. It was left for others to uncover this.
Scoring from penalties is nowhere near as difficult as scoring from open play - all the stats show this beyond any doubt.
No excuse is needed, Berbatov's figures are impressive enough. The fact he achieved them without scoring penalties just makes them more impressive.
He doesn't take penalties because we already have two designated penalty takers, normally Defoe or Keane, and they both score 8 or 9 times out of 10. So if it ain't broke why fix it? It's got nothing to do with your silly suggestion that Berbatov is not 'good enough'.
It's got feck all to do with blinkers man, King Eric transformed our side, without him we would never have won as many league titles as we have, even Sir Alex acknowledged that in a past interview.
As for Giggs, you're placing a bit too much emphasis on the word significant, we're talking about a man here who has played almost 600 games in the premiership and has won 9 league titles.
A similar case can be made for Arsenal's success with regards to Henry especially at a time when the competition with United was a lot harder.
Giggsy merits his place as one of all time premiership greats BUT he is not a headline grabber. Never underestimate the impact Henry had on the premiership even though he was only here for about 8 years.
Berbatov's 12 league goals versus Henry's 10 goals in the league is very impressive even though Berbatov has played at least double the number of games Henry has, you are even more deluded than Liverpool fans
Eto'odinho was correct!
Why do you insist on trying to mislead people? Can't you rely on honest discussion?
Nobody has said that Berbatov 'is the best' (what do you mean anyway - the best in the world? the best in Europe? the best in the Prem? the best in North London?).
This thread is about Henry and Berbatov - not the entire global set of strikers - and who would be the better signing now ... not 3 seasons ago with Henry at his peak, but now.
Be interesting to know who he scored those 12 against. He didn't score against top 4 in the league as far as I remember. I'll bet they were all against Wigans or Charltons.Berbatov's 12 league goals versus Henry's 10 goals in the league is very impressive even though Berbatov has played at least double the number of games Henry has, you are even more deluded than Liverpool fans
Eto'odinho was correct!
I have already given my answer, look for it somewhere above this post. In another thread you considered Berbatov to be better than Rooney, and now Henry. This doesn't really leave an awful lot of options for other strikers who could be considered as being better than Berbatov in the premiership.So in short this was just an indirect way of you saying that Berbatov was the best in the prem in 2006/07
Henry - he's the best striker in the world
This thread is bonkers.
Henry scores 25-30 league goals a season, almost guaranteed for at least 6 years, gets injured after playing for years with an injury that only required a period of rest and is now supposedly a 'has-been' readily usurped by a player who in his first season was merely good, not brilliant or great, just good.
The argument being that Henry is nearing 30, and is possibly on the decline and may be on the way to becoming injury prone as well as losing some of his pace.
Well, let's look at it from that point of view.
1. Henry will still have more pace than Berbatov when he is 34 and Berbatov is 30. At no point in their careers will Berbatov ever be faster than Henry.
2. Henry's game has changed and the notion he relies on pace is a myth. Like Giggs, he has modified his game considerably the past few years and it's his intelligence and precision as well as the fear teams have of him that gets him a large number of goals.
3. Henry is better at everything bar heading the ball than Berbatov.
4. Henry is proven in this league, Berbatov could be a one-season wonder for all we know. Kevin Philips had a blinding single season (far superior to Berbatov's one last year) and people weren't rushing to compare him to Shearer.
5. Following on from point 4. Berbatov is a bigger risk at the same price as Henry because there are no guarantees he can hack the league when he is rated as a threat in it. The same cannot be said of Henry, who can only be contained by certain defenders and sides.
6. Henry, as shown last season, is more productive than Berbatov. Extrapolated to a full season there were no signs that Henry goal return was in decline. He scored nearly as many goals and was just as influential as Berbatov in half a season!! FFS.
7. Henry 'in decline' is still a class above most players at their peak, Berbatov included.
8. Henry could easily see out a 3 year contract, people are talking about him like he's dead.. he was only out for half a season and will come back fresh, rested and injury free.
I could do this all day, but that's enough. I feel I'm being dragged into this lunacy too much as it is.
OK, you're limiting it to the Prem, so at least that makes things clearer, but even there I've never said that Berbatov is the best in the Prem right now - Drogba for one must be a strong contender for that accolade.
As for Rooney, I've said that he's a very different type of player to Berbatov, so comparisons are a bit like comparing apples with oranges. But yes, for me whilst they are pretty close in overall ability I'd say that Berbatov maybe just shades it.
I don't expect much support (if any) for that view on a United board, but there you go.
The complete striker Berbatov - 12 goals in 33 games.
The finished Henry - 10 goals in 17 games.
Even Henry played through injury and in the the worst form he has been in for Arsenal, Henry > Berbatov......
He also tried to argue with me that Bale is better than Heinze and that SAF would swap Giggs for Lennon right now.
I wouldn't expect you'd get much support on a Spurs board. When I lampooned your over-rating of Berbatov by tagging him The Best Player in the World I didn't realise quite how far gone you were.
You make some good points, some of which I agree with and some I don't... I could do this all day, but that's enough. I feel I'm being dragged into this lunacy too much as it is.
I could make various points about Henry's deficiencies - his lack of team spirit, his sulking, his morale-sapping put-downs of team-mates, and often his lazy work rate for example.
But if Henry is still such an amazingly fantastic player and still so superior to Berbatov, then ask yourself this:
Why has he been sold for much less money than Berbatov would fetch if he was placed on the market?
If the answer is age and being injury prone, then that is a factor in determining who'd make the better signing now - which is the question I asked in opening this thread.
If the answer is that he wanted to leave, that doesn't explain it. Carrick wanted to leave but we still got 18.6m for him even in last year's much less inflated market.
If the answer is that only Barca wanted him, that doesn't explain it either. It begs the question as to why there wasn't a global scramble of clubs bidding for his services. And Man. U were the only serious bidders for Carrick, but we still got that 18.6m
Drogba had a fine 06/07 season BUT then again he is not better than Henry
I don't know both Wayne and Berbatov are strikers and to a large extent the comparison is justified.Berbatov being better than Wayne on the basis of one season?come on, Rooney gets played so many times out of position and he still managed to score the same number of goals as your out and out striker and even outscored him in the premiership.You are clutching at straws mate, remove your blinkers and see the footballing world the way it actually is.
What next Robinson is the best keeper in the prem? King is better than Ferdinand?