Berbatov or Henry?

[KingEric7]

Maybe not, but it does have a bearing on his impact on team spirit and morale. There are plenty of Arsenal fans who wondered, even before his departure, whether they'd be better off without him.


It didn't happen with Carrick, so no reason to suppose it would be any different with Berbatov. If a club wanted him enough, they'd pay close to the going rate, knowing they'd wouldn't get him otherwise.


All this talk of an 'open market', as if what happened with Henry was some super special case outside of all market forces. It happens all the time that player X wants to go to club Y - it's nothing new, and it doesn't usually stop other clubs bidding for that player, or the selling club refusing to sell until their valuation is met. The fact is that Henry went for what the market was prepared to pay and for what Arsenal were prepared to accept.

I'm sorry if his sale price didn't match your elevated view of Henry, but in the real world Henry was well past his best sell-by-date, hence the fee paid.


You told me that I had no idea of what Berbatov would fetch, yet somehow you know that Henry 'would have' fetched an astronomical price in the Prem. How come?

No English club did actually bid for him, as far as we know, though Liverpool were rumoured to be interested. Maybe that tells us something.


Nonsense. If Arsenal had still wanted him badly enough they would have named a much higher price and stuck to it -just like Spurs did with Carrick. Arsenal had as much 'room for negotiation' as they cared to make - they obviously just didn't care to make that much room and so risk losing the sale.


This distinction between 'want' and 'need' is totally artificial. You make it sound as if Barca are stupid enough to simply want players to display like trophies, even tho' they don't need them. Obviously Arsenal didn't 'want' or 'need' Henry that much, or they'd have held out for a much larger price.


Don't believe that for one second. The bookies would have looked at Berbatov's goals and assists tally this last season, seen Henry another year older and with continuing injury problems - and slashed any 'long odds' down to the knuckle.

Good lord!! What have i just read?!

 

[Trigg]

Fine.
But anybody with a brain would have Henry over Berbatov, even if he is 30.
Henry can better everything that Berbatov can do, and more.

I have a brain, yet I decided I'd take Berbatov over Henry for the reasons I stated. I also think those reasons are valid.

If the OP question was "Who's the better player?" My answer would be different.

 

[peterstorey]

Don't believe that for one second. The bookies would have looked at Berbatov's goals and assists tally this last season, seen Henry another year older and with continuing injury problems - and slashed any 'long odds' down to the knuckle.

But your beliefs are somewhat bizarre. Berbatov is 12/1 to be top scorer in the PL next season (along with Owen and Shevchenko). Henry (if he were still with us, sigh) would have been about 5/2 favourite.

 

[afrocentricity]

Not very good post Afro .. must try harder

The irony ...

 

[KingEric7]

I have a brain, yet I decided I'd take Berbatov over Henry for the reasons I stated. I also think those reasons are valid.

If the OP question was "Who's the better player?" My answer would be different.

Debatable....

 

[GlastonSpur]

The thing is afro, i actually think he's serious.

Sure am, along with the several other posters who've agreed that Berbatov would be the better signing.

You can try and make it seem as if my view is wildly ridiculous and held only by a single fringe lunatic, but if so you'll need to improve your efforts considerably. Reasoned discussion always helps - patronising bullshit rarely does.

 

[afrocentricity]

But your beliefs are somewhat bizarre. Berbatov is 12/1 to be top scorer in the PL next season (along with Owen and Shevchenko). Henry (if he were still with us, sigh) would have been about 5/2 favourite.

not to mention the amount of times he got the golden boot ... including the season b4 last if I remember correctly ... this is such a pointless argument really.

like the wise man says, 'you can't argue with muppets' ...

 

[GlastonSpur]

Good lord!! What have i just read?!

Good Lord !! .. you can read ??!

 

[afrocentricity]

Sure am, along with the several other posters who've agreed that Berbatov would be the better signing.

You can try and make it seem as if my view is wildly ridiculous and held only by a single fringe lunatic, but if so you'll need to improve your efforts considerably. Reasoned discussion always helps - patronising bullshit rarely does.

wow, so the fact that a handful of posters have agreed with you means that you are correct?

no, it means that muppets travel in packs ...

 

[Il Tulipo Nero]

Some retards here need to learn how to read.

 

[KingEric7]

Sure am, along with the several other posters who've agreed that Berbatov would be the better signing.

You can try and make it seem as if my view is wildly ridiculous and held only by a single fringe lunatic, but if so you'll need to improve your efforts considerably. Reasoned discussion always helps - patronising bullshit rarely does.

It is a ridiculous view, and luckily, 90% of the people in this thread have noticed this. It is also a stupidly biased view.
It speaks volumes when we would choose Henry, a player a lot of people detest as a person, over Berbatov, who seems a decent person.
We also need to get this straight, if Berbatov was as good as you lot made him out to be, then there is no chance that he would still be at Spurs. A much bigger club would have come in for him. World class players and Tottenham just don't go together. He's obviously a good player though.
I know the question isn't "Is Henry a better player" which would bring about an incredibly obvious answer, but the fact that Henry is better than Berbatov at literally EVERYTHING, means that the negatives of a 3 year gap in age are clearly outweighed.

I can't believe i took the time to post a moderately lengthy post in such a stupid argument.

 

[KingEric7]

Good Lord !! .. you can read ??!

Excellent retort....mature aswell.

 

[peterstorey]

All of his other 22 goals and 15 assists were crap that any old striker would have scored or made - right ?

Sounds like your scrabbling around for straws, desperate to try and prove that Berbatov is rubbish.

As the man said no one's saying he's rubbish, they're just trying to correct your overinflated view of him. The reason for the focus on League goals is that they tend to be an equal comparator. Berbatov's seven EUFA cup goals may have been scored against poor opposition or in games where the result was a formality. I think the stat that he scored only 1 against top half opposition is rather interesting though.

 

[GlastonSpur]

wow, so the fact that a handful of posters have agreed with you means that you are correct?
...

Obviously not, no more than the fact that other posters agree with you means that you are correct.

But it does mean that your 'I think he's serious comments' need to be widened out to other posters if you insist on targetting people with your 'clever-clever' sneering.

 

[peterstorey]

Excellent retort....mature aswell.

I don't think he gets banter. Or maybe his style is just a bit "playground".

 

[afrocentricity]

Obviously not, no more than the fact that other posters agree with you means that you are correct.

But it does mean that your 'I think he's serious comments' need to be widened out to other posters if you insist on targetting people with your 'clever-clever' sneering.

If you took the time to read my first few posts, I actually gave you the benefit of the doubt and accused you of an elaborate wind-up aimed to expose the caf muppets in all their glory ... but apparently you were being serious.

I guess Barcelona would have been better off getting Berbatov then? don't answer that .....

 

[Eto'odinho]

Sure am, along with the several other posters who've agreed that Berbatov would be the better signing.
.

How many other posters have actually agreed with you in this thread? 2 off the top of my head and one of them was Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber.Now I have a lot of time for the Rubberman but anyone who has been on the CAF for a week will tell you that he liable to the occasional lapse in judgement

 

[afrocentricity]

It is a ridiculous view, and luckily, 90% of the people in this thread have noticed this. It is also a stupidly biased view.
It speaks volumes when we would choose Henry, a player a lot of people detest as a person, over Berbatov, who seems a decent person.
We also need to get this straight, if Berbatov was as good as you lot made him out to be, then there is no chance that he would still be at Spurs. A much bigger club would have come in for him. World class players and Tottenham just don't go together. He's obviously a good player though.
I know the question isn't "Is Henry a better player" which would bring about an incredibly obvious answer, but the fact that Henry is better than Berbatov at literally EVERYTHING, means that the negatives of a 3 year gap in age are clearly outweighed.

I can't believe i took the time to post a moderately lengthy post in such a stupid argument.

neither can I ...

 

[Eto'odinho]

Obviously not, no more than the fact that other posters agree with you means that you are correct.

But it does mean that your 'I think he's serious comments' need to be widened out to other posters if you insist on targetting people with your 'clever-clever' sneering.

Glaston, do you think Ledley King is better than Rio?, do you think Paul Robinson is a top 3 premiership goalkeeper?

 

[GlastonSpur]

... if Berbatov was as good as you lot made him out to be, then there is no chance that he would still be at Spurs. A much bigger club would have come in for him. ...

Oh dear .. we're back to the silly argument that says da Silva is top 4 quality just because Arsenal have signed him, whilst Berbatov isn't just because he signed for Spurs.

You really do need to develop a more mature and insightful viewpoint. Spouting such nonsense isn't doing you any favours.

 

[KingEric7]

Oh dear .. we're back to the silly argument that says da Silva is top 4 quality just because Arsenal have signed him, whilst Berbatov isn't just because he signed for Spurs.

You really do need to develop a more mature and insightful viewpoint. Spouting such nonsense isn't doing you any favours.

You think a world class player would stay at White Hart Lane then?

 

[GlastonSpur]

Glaston, do you think Ledley King is better than Rio?, do you think Paul Robinson is a top 3 premiership goalkeeper?

What is the point of this?

Do you think Rossi is better than Keane, or Smith better than Bent? Or Saha better than Berbatov? Or Park better than Lennon? Or ..... etc etc.

You seem to want to turn the whole thing into some petty point-scoring exercise involving numerous player comparisons.

I've stated my view on Henry in this thread: Berbatov would be the better signing, all things considered.

You don't agree - fine. I've registered this fact. If you want to discuss other players try opening a new thread.

 

[afrocentricity]

GS, you haven't addressed my (and some of the other posters) question(s) ...

Tell-tale sign of a WUM.

 

[KingEric7]

What is the point of this?

Do you think Saha is better than Berbatov? Or Park better than Lennon? Or ..... etc etc.

Yes.

 

[GlastonSpur]

How many other posters have actually agreed with you in this thread? 2 off the top of my head and one of them was Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber....

On the first page there are four others and one torn both ways. Red Indian Chief was later somewhere.

I can't be bothered to scan back and check the other pages - feel free to do so if it pleases you.

 

[GlastonSpur]

You think a world class player would stay at White Hart Lane then?

Yes .. happy now?

 

[KingEric7]

Yes .. happy now?

Amused to say the least.

I'm off. I expect a 12 pager by the time i return.

 

[afrocentricity]

On the first page there are four others and one torn both ways. Red Indian Chief was later somewhere.

I can't be bothered to scan back and check the other pages - feel free to do so if it pleases you.

a handful then ...

 

[Eto'odinho]

On the first page there are four others and one torn both ways. Red Indian Chief was later somewhere.

I can't be bothered to scan back and check the other pages - feel free to do so if it pleases you.

So if Spurs have got this supreme striker and all these very good other players, how come you finished below Arsenal then?

 

[Fortitude]

Maybe not, but it does have a bearing on his impact on team spirit and morale. There are plenty of Arsenal fans who wondered, even before his departure, whether they'd be better off without him.

Sorry but there isn't a correlation between players being cnuts and them not being able to do the job they're paid to do. Now, I'm not saying Henry was a cnut, he was a pretentious fraud (fake cool) arrogant and some other things, but he clearly held Arsenal together for a long time before he got fed up. There is no argument to counter this, his goal and assist tallies not to mention his homo-erotic dancing with Adebayor say it all for him.

It didn't happen with Carrick, so no reason to suppose it would be any different with Berbatov. If a club wanted him enough, they'd pay close to the going rate, knowing they'd wouldn't get him otherwise.

That's not how the market works. Especially not with players who have proven themselves to be head and shoulders above their peers. As I already said, us playing our hand and showing signs of desperation to get Carrick lessened our position considerably. Barca were not in the same predicament and Henry would have been furious had his club fecked them off. Wenger seems the sort that lets players who don't want to be there leave.

All this talk of an 'open market', as if what happened with Henry was some super special case outside of all market forces. It happens all the time that player X wants to go to club Y - it's nothing new, and it doesn't usually stop other clubs bidding for that player, or the selling club refusing to sell until their valuation is met. The fact is that Henry went for what the market was prepared to pay and for what Arsenal were prepared to accept.

It doesn't happen often. And in the rare cases that it does you have the player acting like an utter cnut to his employers if they don't let him go where he wants, threatening striking and all sorts of shite. The best players have far more say in what they want than smaller fry.

And an open market means an auction. Henry was never in the open market because Arsenal never made overtures to clubs to come and get their star man, and nor did Henry, for that matter.

I'm sorry if his sale price didn't match your elevated view of Henry, but in the real world Henry was well past his best sell-by-date, hence the fee paid.

Seriously, whose world is this then? As far as I can tell, Henry is still a world respected and world rated striker who has just gone to one of the biggest clubs in the world from Arsenal... 'hence the fee paid' is nonsense on many levels. Only Barca could have got him for that price. The mind boggles at what us or Chelsea would have to pay.

You told me that I had no idea of what Berbatov would fetch, yet somehow you know that Henry 'would have' fetched an astronomical price in the Prem. How come?

Because Henry is PL legend, proven, rated, coveted and freshly rested. This needing spelling out to you?

No English club did actually bid for him, as far as we know, though Liverpool were rumoured to be interested. Maybe that tells us something.

Please tell me how often the 'big 4' of England deal with each other? In almost every instance the deals are embittered unamicable and end with all kinds of mud-slinging. Gerrard to Chelsea was a miserable affair, Gallas-Cole switching has left both clubs in a worse position then they were previously, and if Henry had gone to another PL club the Arse fans would be calling for heads to roll.

No English club would even dream of going in for Henry, just as no English club would be spastic enough to enquire about any of United's top players.

Nonsense. If Arsenal had still wanted him badly enough they would have named a much higher price and stuck to it -just like Spurs did with Carrick. Arsenal had as much 'room for negotiation' as they cared to make - they obviously just didn't care to make that much room and so risk losing the sale.

Arsenal had no room for negotiation once Henry made it clear he would go to Barca and only Barca. Are you naive enough to think Henry's representatives wouldn't let Barca's people know this?

This distinction between 'want' and 'need' is totally artificial. You make it sound as if Barca are stupid enough to simply want players to display like trophies, even tho' they don't need them. Obviously Arsenal didn't 'want' or 'need' Henry that much, or they'd have held out for a much larger price.

Barcelona have the best front three on the planet with or without Henry. If it's not clear to you they didn't need Henry as things stand, then why am I even replying.

Don't believe that for one second. The bookies would have looked at Berbatov's goals and assists tally this last season, seen Henry another year older and with continuing injury problems - and slashed any 'long odds' down to the knuckle.

Yes, oddsmen would think that the PL's best striker by some distance, fully rested and injury free for the first time in 3 years, whose numbers have not once dropped in 7 odd years (GPG) would somehow not outscore the above average Berbatov who may or may not be a one-season wonder.

Splendid. Is this what all Spurs fans think or are you alone in this..madness?

What's even more entertaining is you having this stance considering Henry almost outscored him in the league playing half the amount of games whilst injured last season.

 

[KingEric7]

On the first page there are four others and one torn both ways. Red Indian Chief was later somewhere.

I can't be bothered to scan back and check the other pages - feel free to do so if it pleases you.

You're not really helping your case here....

 

[GlastonSpur]

You're not really helping your case here....

I think that most managers, given Henry's age, injury and attitude problems, would choose to sign Berbatov instead of Henry if they had the choice.

Henry has been one the best - if not the best - strikers in the world. However, his form has dipped noticeably and his pace not quite what it once was, although injuries obviously haven't helped. Whether he will ever again be as good as he was 2 or 3 seasons ago is doubtful in my view.

Berbatov would clearly be a fantastic signing for almost any club, United included, quite apart from the fact that his age means he'd be effective for many seasons to come.

You don't agree.

Some posters in this thread agree with me, others don't.

We are not going to agree on this, so let's just agree to disagree.

 

[KingEric7]

Henry has been one the best - if not the best - strikers in the world. However, his form has dipped noticeably and his pace not quite what it once was, although injuries obviously haven't helped. Whether he will ever again be as good as he was 2 or 3 seasons ago is doubtful in my view.
Berbatov would clearly be a fantastic signing for almost any club, United included, quite apart from the fact that his age means he'd be effective for many seasons to come.

This is why the argument is stupid. Henry has not lost his pace at all. Jamie Carragher got outrun from literally a 40m headstart last year in the cup. Given it was Carragher and not Ferdinand, it still showed how much pace he had.
His form hasn't "dipped" either. He just hasn't played enough games.
People are also speaking about Henry as if he is 35 and not 30. Look at what Van Nistlerooy is doing in Spain now. He's about a year older aswell.
The general consensus on this forum seems to be that as soon as a player hits 30, they are rendered useless and past it. There are just so many different players that you can put forward to show how stupid this is.

 

[afrocentricity]

I think that most managers, given Henry's age, injury and attitude problems, would choose to sign Berbatov instead of Henry if they had the choice.

Henry has been one the best - if not the best - strikers in the world. However, his form has dipped noticeably and his pace not quite what it once was, although injuries obviously haven't helped. Whether he will ever again be as good as he was 2 or 3 seasons ago is doubtful in my view.

Berbatov would clearly be a fantastic signing for almost any club, United included, quite apart from the fact that his age means he'd be effective for many seasons to come.

You don't agree.

Some posters in this thread agree with me, others don't.

We are not going to agree on this, so let's just agree to disagree.

 

[KingEric7]

It was a staggering post indeed.

 

[Eto'odinho]

It was a staggering post indeed.

And all this time we've been accusing scousers as being the deluded bunch put there. Glaston surely gives them a run for their money

 

[Fortitude]

However, his form has dipped noticeably and his pace not quite what it once was, although injuries obviously haven't helped. Whether he will ever again be as good as he was 2 or 3 seasons ago is doubtful in my view.

There is no evidence of any of this whatsoever. What are you talking about?

 

[Eto'odinho]

There is no evidence of any of this whatsoever. What are you talking about?

Probably Henry's scoring of 10 goals and having 5 assists in 17 premiership appearances that were made whilst carrying a niggling injury in 06/07

 

[GlastonSpur]

There is no evidence of any of this whatsoever. What are you talking about?

I'm afraid you might need to open your eyes a little:

"Look past the injuries, it was obvious that the team was no longer set around TH. ... Henry would never have gotten to the form he had a couple of years before."

"he had an average season last season despite being injured and tired"

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersweb/index.php?showtopic=24061&st=15

"some moody whinging bloke flailing his arms around when he doesnt get the pass he wants"

"he knew he was passed his best ... and the lure of the CL cup plus 130 k per week he made a decision that was right for him"

http://arsenal-mania.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31419

"No more whining and lack of leadership on the pitch"

"it is absolutely right that he leaves- we know we've had his best years, we know that up until the last 18 months he's been a model pro for us ... Maybe Thierry will have an indian summer in Barcelona"

"Part of me isnt that upset that we have sold him - we have had the best years out of him, he is nearly 30 and isnt going to get any better, he is getting more and more injuries and has disappeared up his own arse in the last couple of years."

http://arsenal-mania.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31419&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

"I bet if he had not played well in a few matches this season...some would have said we should have sell him"

"he did play poorly this season in the games he started"

"the guy is a lousy captain and just cant stay healthy ... this club needs a LOT more than an ageing primadonna right now"

http://arsenal-mania.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31419&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

And dozens more like these. OK, to some extent some of the above comments are a natural reaction to his departure, but as I said earlier in this thread quite a few Arsenal fans have been saying similar things long before this.

 

[afrocentricity]

GS .... your worse than the dippers on here, ffs Henry is a top player and thats why Barca went in for him ...

You avoided all of my questions as well as a lot of other posters too ... I'm convinced you're either a WUM or in contention for the coming seasons muppet of the season award.