well lets said if that kind of penalty was given against us we be fuming, it did look harsh, contact was minimum , berba did went down rather too easily.
Berbatov's Dive... Oh Dear
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Rio tweeted that it was a definite penalty..(despite spelling definite wrongly)
so that's enough for me..
so that's enough for me..
Well its a question of judgment.That's not what I was asking
Agger tripped him, therefore it's a fair penalty shout.
An attacker doesn't have to hit the ground for the defenders actions to be classed as a trip, according to neither the dictionary nor the laws of the game.
So, is tripping a player a legitimate way to defend in football?
It wasn't a trip to me when I saw the other angles.
Berba was in the penalty area, close to the touchline, felt the touch and dived.
Its a no brainer this one.
Would Berbatov have stayed in control of the ball if Agger hadn't made the challenge? Would he have stayed in control of the ball if he'd tried to stay on his feet after the challenge?
For me it's yes to the first, and no to the second, that's why I think it's a fair shout.
Not saying it wasn't a bit soft though, you'd quite often see them not given, but I think it's a fair call as the law stands.
He clipped his heel. How is that not a penalty. If his sole objective is to remain on his feet then he wouldn't control a ball in that situation. So it's 100% a foul. No question from the replays I saw.
I put it as being borderline whether it was a foul or not. Again, it would be a foul outside the penalty area, of that I am certain - so by the letter of the law it should be a foul inside as well. Realistically, yes it was a soft penalty and Berbatov could have stayed on his feet if he wanted to I imagine - but we wouldnt gain any advantage from him doing so. If a foul is committed and he goes down, then thats not a dive in my book, even if he didnt have to go down.
The question again, is whether it was a foul and as I said - I reckon it would be given outside the box, but you will often see them not being given inside the box I will admit.
Fergie said it was a pen.
I'd be pissed at the player for diving, but I'd also be pissed at the defender for making such a stupid tackle and accept it was probably a penalty.
Looking at teh video again.. you can see Agger's hand on Berbatov's back..
Would Agger have pushed him there?
Would Agger have pushed him there?
Nice pass. Sublime control, stupid challenge, intelligent fall, sublime penalty, sublime goal. Dippers out, sublime Berba. Simples.
You know when fans of United starts using borderline, put aside x y z, realistically, soft, could have stayed on his feet, you can bet your house it's actually a dive.
Non contact. Holy Jesus. He clipped his back heel. That's is a foul. I might even be considered sneaky like shirt pulling. Anybody who says he shouldn't have went down is obvious not a a striker worth anything because you'd have to be playing at 25% to stay in your feet. I'd say this is a couch potato's or Liverpool fan's opinion.
No, I'm pretty sure it was a localised earthquake. Most unfortunate really as it's made it look like Berbatov dived.
Dwight Yorke said it was a penalty. The defender left his foot back their and paid the price.
That'll do for me.
poetic succinct and true
If he dove, then he's the best stunt actor I've ever seen.
contact sport doesn't mean you can kick somebody's shins. There seems to be a weird view from some some that a foul has to knock you to the ground or it isn't a foul
Berbatov isn't that sort of player who dives. That's enough to convince me he was caught and it's a penalty.
There was contact. so it was a penalty. Berba said it was enough to make him lose his balance. So there we go.
The way he went down looked natural to me.
See this is why players do it so readily - it's not only tolerated, it's actually venerated by fans.
The player shouldn't be doing the ref's job. If he's tripped up so that he falls down, then he falls down. If he's tripped but not badly enough to fall, he should try to stay on his feet, keep the ball and create something. If the ref thinks it's a foul, he'll give a penalty. Football's about scoring and preventing goals, not finessing the rules or fooling the ref to win set pieces.
Of course it's always going to happen, just like kicking people in the shins is always going to happen. Doesn't mean it should be admired, it should be deprecated, if caught doing it players should be made to feel ashamed.
There was one moment in the second half where Berbatov stayed on his feet and carried on when the defender lunged into him. Don't see some of you lot gave him credit for that. He's just not that sort of player who dives
Thank you for saying that. That's the point exactly. A foul is a foul whether a player goes down or not.
Absolutely. Only those with impaired vision or biased thoughts couldn't see that.
That's the thing though, it's very rare that the ref will call the foul unless a player falls. Which isn't particularly a sleight on the refs, the job's hard enough as it is, but it's a bit much to ask players to do their utmost to hide that they've been impeded.
He won't though, that's the problem. Ref's are very reluctant to give penalties, so if a player stays on their feet it's extremely unlikely the ref will give a penalty unless it is so blatantly obvious that it would be ridiculous not to give it. And even then they sometimes won't (I remember a couple of years ago in the course of a couple of weeks both Rooney and Ronaldo were denied stone wall penalties simply because they both tried to stay on their feet).
You can understand why the refs are reluctant as they get attacked so much when they get it wrong (and even sometimes when they get it right), but it's that very same attitude that encourages players to dive.
They're not supposed to hide anything, just stay on their feet if they can. It's not a big ask. If someone is knocked off balance but manages to stay on their feet it's easy enough for the ref to see and award the penalty anyway.
I'm arguing that it was a fair penalty shout, and I'm not saying that he wouldn't have gone down eventually, but if he was felled directly as a result of the challenge I'd have expected him to fall the step after the one he actually did fall on - i.e. when he tried to plant the leg that had been knocked by Agger.
Doesn't particularly matter though, it's all just in the aftermath of what I see as being a foul.
I'm not sure that referees are inclined to do that, though, and I'm also not sure if it's as easy as you make out for the referee to see infringements like that. The link someone posted a few pages back about Howard Webb telling Ian Evatt he didn't get a penalty because he stayed on his feet backs that up - fair enough, it was in a bit of a rag of a newspaper, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.
If I thought referees were calling fouls without players falling over I'd agree with you, but I'm not convinced that's the case.
He probably went down easily, but Agger prevented Berbatov from gaining an advantage through contact in the area. It's a penalty.
how is/was that a response to what I said?
Berbatov didn't kick the ball past Agger and look for a foul, he was trying to get space to cross and got kicked in the shins, what happened after that is irrelevant - it's a penalty.
So you don't think Ronaldo was fantastic in his last 3 seasons with us? 23 goals and PL title, 42 goals and a PL Cl double and 26 goals and a PL title (plus another CL final appearance), most of those scored as a winger, and 36 assists over the 3 seasons as well.
Its always something else with liverpool, never their fault. As long as they have that attitude they'll fix nowt.
No, I was drawing your attention to my post asking whether or not you were talking about the wrong Ronaldo, which now clearly you were.
Stupid of Agger to commit a stupid foul. The contact wasn't enough to bring him down but hey that doesn't change the fact that it was a indeed a foul albeit a very soft one.
feck this, Berba is an opportunist and we dumped the bastards out of the cup. End of story.
feck this, Berba is an opportunist and we dumped the bastards out of the cup. End of story.
I don't think anyone is seeing it like that. Everyone knows, themselves included, that something is wrong with club and change is needed.
First Houllier, then Benitez, then Gillette and Hicks, then Roy Hodgson now Howard Webb...
Dear me
No refs will award the penalty in a situation like today if the player doesnt go down.