Yeah exactly, correct me if I’m wrong but all I’ve heard for the last 10 years is that City have the best academy in the world, the world has ever seen, ever...
Best academy in the world?
- Thread starter Rozay
- Start date
They still play at the top level for PL clubs, they’re not down in league 1 or anything
Possibly, but the only way to prove this is by these academy players playing regularly AND winning trophies. Ajax and Barca will fairly be considered better than us until that happens again. I think we need to instill a more collective/team focused mindset in our players now as well. A lot of our academy attackers of recent times give the impression they're really in it for themselves and their public profiles whereas Barca and Ajax players seem to be much more focused on personal improvement and team ethos.
Why though? Who are these players that Ajax produced and won more than United players in the last 20 years?
I have feeling Chelsea academy is also quite succesfull, in last years they produced Reece James, Lamptey, Odoi, Tomori, Mount, Loftus Cheek, Abraham, Chalobah, Christensen, definitelly i would put them into top10 right now.
Top 10 in the world? There is more than 10 clubs with a better list of players.
Nigel De Jong, De Ligt have won things. Eriksen, Alderweireld and Vertongen didn't win a trophy but they were key players for Spurs when they were out competing us for the title. Welbeck, Cleverley etc may have grabbed a title with us but they were largely carried by the rest of the team and have found their level at Watford etc. Evans you could maybe mention in the same bracket as those Ajax players above for example, but for me those Ajax players are a level ahead of our long time academy prospects. I do think though that Rashford, Greenwood hitting their potential can be key players winning trophies and put as back as the top academy like the Co92 did.
Ajax are surely there with us if not ahead ? We have produced great players. There was a stage early to mid 2000’s where most were not that good.
Greenwood is phenomenal.
Greenwood is phenomenal.
I think you also need to rate academies on what they get out of the players they take on. Our Catchment area is much larger than Ajax's but they still manage to churn out a huge number of top players whilst being unable to be as selective in their recruitment as PL clubs in England can be.
Hear hear.
It's one of those things that makes me proud of this football club.
possiblty there are 10 better, but in last lets say 5 years to produce so much talent. I have Us ahead of them, but it would be hard to mention 10 clubs produce more quantity of ok players in that period.
Schalke are up there. They are just too stupid to get any real money for their players.
Madrid are rated as such because starting with the Galacticos era and more prominently at the time of Pep and beyond they became more of a Chelsea or City type club which was a contrast to their own rivals at the time
It’s probably Ajax or one of the German lot to be fair. Genk in Belgium will be there too, KDB, Courtois, Koulibaly & Bailey to name a few. We’re clearly #1 for England right now though.
There are still more than 10 teams better in the last 5 years. The players that you mentioned have done nothing in football and it's not a particularly large amount of players.
Yeah, we've obviously always been right up there but right now we're the leading club in terms of developing youth. There is not a young player out there not considering us anymore, and I know It's early days, but you can tell we've quietly gone about rebuilding and developing the academy, recruitment etc and it's paying itself back tenfolds. Other clubs like City have tried to copy the United-way, but no other club seems to be able to do it quite as well as us. The guys working inside the club with this is clearly doing something right. There has been a lot of weirdness after SAF left, but this is probably the thing that in many ways separated this club from others for me growing up and it makes me proud to see the club is still true to their values and doing well.
Our DoF Nicky Butt did a great job Rozay.
No mention of Monaco here even from the Frenchies?
Haven't seen Lyon's name mentioned much. Cherki, Martial, Benzema, Lacazette, Fekir, Tolisso, Umtiti... Lots of really good talents.
No, in France I would rank Monaco between third and sixth depending on the period. Lyon and PSG are clearly above after that I don't really know how to rank the likes of Monaco, Rennes or Saint Etienne.
I guess Madrid is overlooked a lot.
With regards to your argument off overall players, I don't disagree with that. My point is that you judging a questions of historically great youth academies based on today's statistics. If you look at these similar statistics 20 years ago you maybe would get different clubs at the top.
It's a mix between how much but also how good they are. Some clubs might have more players represented but you also have to look at the quality that ought clubs produce.
I get what he means though. Those are players that had good spells but not the type youth players aspire to be with all due respect. Kids from the U11's want to be the next Rashford, Pogba or Greenwood.
Why would you base the success of a Dutch academy on how many are playing in England, France, Spain, Italy, or France? That measurement doesn’t even include Ajax themselves, a club who’ve just been in a CL finals on the back of their own academy products. That alone shows how stupid of a judgement that is. Beyond that Ajax have ~20 academy products playing for themselves, PSV, Feyenoord, and AZ. All historically big clubs, who all compete in CL/EL and are far better than Norwich, Reims, Leganes, Paderborn, and SPAL. Who according to you are the real mark of success.
But it's not an historical question, unless I completely misread the OP?
It's a simple criteria that is often used. If you want to use something else I have no issue with it.
I don't know why we bother because everybody knows you win nothing with Kids.
Barcelona, Ajax, United, Santos, Sporting Lissabon, Bayern, PSG, Benfica are the well known names.
But do't forget clubs like Partizan Belgrade and Spartak Prague and Dinamo Zagreb.
It's not all about the most expensive players for me, but more about how many players they produce for the top 5 leagues.
But do't forget clubs like Partizan Belgrade and Spartak Prague and Dinamo Zagreb.
It's not all about the most expensive players for me, but more about how many players they produce for the top 5 leagues.
Koulibaly and Bailey didn’t come from the Genk youth academy, they were signed from other clubs.
My point was quite the opposite. I think Cleverley a d welbeck did make it at united. Especially welbeck.
He’s one of the reasons why we don’t need one.
Yea it's true, it explicitly says not historical
Too many people confusing clubs academies with clubs buying young players.
Barca used to be the best but they’ve lost their way. We are definitely one of the best clubs in the world at producing and promoting our own. I think in a few years our front 3 will be the envy of Europe, 2 of the 3 homegrown and easily worth up £100 million plus each at that time. In comparison with our main rivals who can match our level of promoting our youth players? City and the dippers have Foden and TAA but no one else in the pipeline that could make the impact of Mason and Rashford.
I seem to recall reading a report about this fairly recently. Cannot find the link at the moment, but the number of academy products plying their trade in Europe's top five leagues, was analysed.
As I remember, Real Madrid's academy was ranked top. Barcelona's and United's rounded out the top three, followed by Lyon and Real Sociedad.
As I remember, Real Madrid's academy was ranked top. Barcelona's and United's rounded out the top three, followed by Lyon and Real Sociedad.
He's literally been our DoF at youth level. And our youth system has been good for several years and something I've mentioned on this forum for years now. It's nothing new.
I’m aware. I’ve also praised his work, and cited his role in the existing structure as part of the reason we don’t need to change the existing structure. We have people doing all roles already. Maybe some are doing theirs better than others. Those people can be replaced. It just isn’t imperative to have a Director. As long as whatever system we have works for us. Butt is doing a great job on his end, and should be allowed to continue to do so. Ole is doing a great job on his too.
I agree it's not imperative, but considering the decisions we made post SAF it would've been beneficial for us to have someone like Butt in the role to provide stability.
And at the end of the day it's about stability and we didn't have it for many years post SAF.
I think Real Madrid has a better academy than Barcelona. Barcelona's basically had a freak crop that was world class all around the same age, whereas Real has always consistently produced players who can ply their trade at other la Liga clubs even if they can't make the standards at Real.
Agreed. And for the record, I don’t care how the club address it, if that means getting a Director then by all means, get one. I just think that if they feel they can address it a different way, then by all means do that - just let it be addressed. I just don’t feel nearly qualified to be making assertions on how the non-playing employees of the club should be structured that’s all. The best I would possibly be able to come up with would be ‘club x has a Director’. If the club have their own ideas, I’m just against the act of insisting we should be structured this way or that way.
I think they did too, they were established, had a first-team number and all that. Players like Luke Chadwick, Possebon, Valera, Fabio didn't make it but had decent careers non the less.