I wonder if you were one of those "Don't buy RVP to halt welbz progress!" folk on here . You are certainly annoyed by it.
Best academy player we've produced since the class of 1992?
- Thread starter Vidyoyo
- Start date
After Scholes, obviously Pique. But if we’re talking about a player other than Scholes who played for United during his best years, then clearly Fletcher.
Definitely not, try again. I love RvP.
I know right? The dude is angry but it's not our fault that welbeck was slippery in the box and he wasn't up to the same standard as strikers that actually are good
As others have said, it depends on definitions.
What I will say is that Fletcher remains an underrated player for many United fans. He was genuinely top class once he properly made the step up - and maintained a very high level, consistently, for a while until his career was fecked up by circumstances beyond his control.
Brown was also very good - but for me, he never actually fulfilled his potential. Part and parcel of that story has to do with injuries, of course - but still: he never fully emerged as the player he promised to be. Fletcher, I would argue, did pretty much exactly that: it was just that he was robbed of the chance to keep on playing at that level for what should have been his prime.
Having said that, one could also add that Brown's potential was higher than Fletcher's: as in, if he had fulfilled what many thought was his potential at one point, he would've turned into a world beater - a Rio level player. Fletcher's ceiling was lower - but he did reach it and should have enjoyed a brilliant career for United well into his 30s if it hadn't been for his medical problems.
What I will say is that Fletcher remains an underrated player for many United fans. He was genuinely top class once he properly made the step up - and maintained a very high level, consistently, for a while until his career was fecked up by circumstances beyond his control.
Brown was also very good - but for me, he never actually fulfilled his potential. Part and parcel of that story has to do with injuries, of course - but still: he never fully emerged as the player he promised to be. Fletcher, I would argue, did pretty much exactly that: it was just that he was robbed of the chance to keep on playing at that level for what should have been his prime.
Having said that, one could also add that Brown's potential was higher than Fletcher's: as in, if he had fulfilled what many thought was his potential at one point, he would've turned into a world beater - a Rio level player. Fletcher's ceiling was lower - but he did reach it and should have enjoyed a brilliant career for United well into his 30s if it hadn't been for his medical problems.
O’Shea for me
Rashford and Greenwood have done nothing yet. Yes they are extremely talented, but so was Welbeck.
Reading this thread reminds me that it is very hard to produce world class players. We have not produced any since 1992, and that's 30 years ago. Our best and most consistent performers were always guys we bought, Cantona, Keane, van Nistelrooy, Rooney, Ronaldo, van Persie, De Gea. Our academy players were at best squad players. We could switch them with a number of players from any mid-table team and our chances to win trophies would not be affected at all.
Thinking about this, it now seems completely normal and anticipated. There are thousands of youth academies in the world, and there are only a handful of world class players. Sure, our academy is famous and it attracts good young players. But still, it is very hard to predict at 15 how good the player will be at 28. So, the probability of producing the next Rooney, or even the next Beckham is very low.
Reading this thread reminds me that it is very hard to produce world class players. We have not produced any since 1992, and that's 30 years ago. Our best and most consistent performers were always guys we bought, Cantona, Keane, van Nistelrooy, Rooney, Ronaldo, van Persie, De Gea. Our academy players were at best squad players. We could switch them with a number of players from any mid-table team and our chances to win trophies would not be affected at all.
Thinking about this, it now seems completely normal and anticipated. There are thousands of youth academies in the world, and there are only a handful of world class players. Sure, our academy is famous and it attracts good young players. But still, it is very hard to predict at 15 how good the player will be at 28. So, the probability of producing the next Rooney, or even the next Beckham is very low.
The topic says who is the best we've produced. Ravel hasnt produced anything, even in the Swedish league. So even naming him silly. Even Eckersley is way above him.
Pogba
Scholes, who's always been underrated by many. Among top 3 midfielders in his prime
After that Pique and Pogba, but the club didn't get anything from them. Pogba still have some chance though...
After that Pique and Pogba, but the club didn't get anything from them. Pogba still have some chance though...
My thoughts were on those who will (hopefully) show greatness at United, not when they have moved on.
Wes Brown and Fletcher are the standouts for me in terms of careers. Both capable of performing in the biggest games to an excellent standard and won the biggest trophies. Wes Brown could have been exceptional but for injuries. His 2008 season was fantastic.
O’Shea was a below average premier league player who put in bang average performances wherever he played. Gets bigger up for a nutmeg and a chip but he was merely a good squad player who came through the ranks but his actual level was more Sunderland.
Talent wise Pogba, Rashford, Greenwood are far better than the names above but have had nowhere near the careers of the likes of Brown and Fletcher.
Pique and Rossi weren’t here long enough but it’s a shame both didn’t get more chances and stay longer.
O’Shea was a below average premier league player who put in bang average performances wherever he played. Gets bigger up for a nutmeg and a chip but he was merely a good squad player who came through the ranks but his actual level was more Sunderland.
Talent wise Pogba, Rashford, Greenwood are far better than the names above but have had nowhere near the careers of the likes of Brown and Fletcher.
Pique and Rossi weren’t here long enough but it’s a shame both didn’t get more chances and stay longer.
Pogba, how's this even a question?
Scored the only goal in a Champions League semi final match vs Arsenal too.
It really depends what you consider an academy product.
If you count anyone who was in the academy at any point during their careers, it would have to be Gerard Pique. If we set a limit of a minimum three years at the academy then you're probably looking at Paul Pogba. If we put a requirement of being involved in the academy before the age of 15 - Then we're looking at Marcus Rashford, Darren Fletcher or Wes Brown. If we further lower the requirement to before the age of 10 then it's a no contest for Marcus Rashford, with Mason Greenwood probably edging it in the coming decade.
I hope we get the team sorted and Rashford can win some titles - he's been here since he was seven years old.
If you count anyone who was in the academy at any point during their careers, it would have to be Gerard Pique. If we set a limit of a minimum three years at the academy then you're probably looking at Paul Pogba. If we put a requirement of being involved in the academy before the age of 15 - Then we're looking at Marcus Rashford, Darren Fletcher or Wes Brown. If we further lower the requirement to before the age of 10 then it's a no contest for Marcus Rashford, with Mason Greenwood probably edging it in the coming decade.
I hope we get the team sorted and Rashford can win some titles - he's been here since he was seven years old.
Rashford or Greenwood.
It really does depend on which way you want to clarify the terms honestly but I guess putting our academy players into lineups to see where the Class 92 and since would figure is at least for me the only way to reconcile our "best" products.
4-3-2-1 (GK, DR, DC, DC, DL, DM, MC, MC, AMR, AML, ST)
Henderson > Heaton
G. Neville > Rafeal
Evans > Brown
Pique > Keane
P. Neville > Blackmore
Butt > Wallwork
McTominay > Fletcher
Scholes > Pogba
Beckham > Greenwood
Giggs > Rashford
Goater > Welbeck
We don't produce out and out strikers and whilst many of us say that Mason should be one, could be one, or will be one he hasnt' yet. As far as others who might be a better player as a striker, I'd argue that Goater is still probably our best out and out striker to come through the academy in this time period. Which is terrifying. Still don't see many of the Co92 being outright replaced either as far as who gets into a first team of academy players. That could and probably will change but as of today, don't see it.
4-3-2-1 (GK, DR, DC, DC, DL, DM, MC, MC, AMR, AML, ST)
Henderson > Heaton
G. Neville > Rafeal
Evans > Brown
Pique > Keane
P. Neville > Blackmore
Butt > Wallwork
McTominay > Fletcher
Scholes > Pogba
Beckham > Greenwood
Giggs > Rashford
Goater > Welbeck
We don't produce out and out strikers and whilst many of us say that Mason should be one, could be one, or will be one he hasnt' yet. As far as others who might be a better player as a striker, I'd argue that Goater is still probably our best out and out striker to come through the academy in this time period. Which is terrifying. Still don't see many of the Co92 being outright replaced either as far as who gets into a first team of academy players. That could and probably will change but as of today, don't see it.
Goater, Rafael weren't youth players and Blackmore made his debut back in 1984.
Wow, nearly 30 years and only a handful of first team players produced. Our academy is ass.
Goater is defined as a youth player tbf but that doesn't excuse Blackmore... also Rafael I thought was? It's been a while but I thought both he and Fabio were considered as such after moving but again, old age and all that... admittedly I did sit there and struggle for forwards and left backs. I was tempted to put Fabio honestly but then figured Blackmore was the better player... time has flown Jesus.
I agree with this.
The objective of an Academy is to get youth players into the first team and, hopefully, keep them there. For the most part we have done that and won loads of trophies along the way. Which means it works.
If you develop a 'world class' player then it is a bonus.
Luckily we have produced quite a few world class players over the years which means that our standards are very, very high.
In my mind we have produced plenty of excellent players but only a dozen or so world class ones.
Johnny Carey
Duncan Edwards
Bobby Charlton
Johnny Giles
George Best
Norman Whiteside
Mark Hughes
Ryan Giggs
David Beckham
Paul Scholes
Gerard Pique
Paul Pogba
So that's roughly one every decade.
People may disagree with one or two, and arguably the likes of David Platt may come into people's thinking but that's not a big list when you consider that's around 2% of the total players.
So talking about 'we haven't produced a world class player recently'...becomes less relevant.
Officially Goater is not a youth player.
You really have to go before 1992 to come up with some good left backs...Albiston, Martin, Blackmore, Noble, Byrne, Aston
Same with forwards...Hughes, Robins, Whiteside, Ritchie, Givens, Kidd, Charlton, Whelan, Viollet, Dawson, Pearson, Morris, Hanlon
Rashford has nearly 100 goals for the club and nearly 300 appearances, to go with 3 trophies in which he played a big part. That’s not nothing by even the highest standards.
The youth production atm is fine by every measure -
First tier
Pogba (though coming back), Rashford, Greenwood, McTominay, Henderson.
Second tier
Lingard, Tuanzebe, Williams.
Now Elanga.
That´s not why we are struggling.
First tier
Pogba (though coming back), Rashford, Greenwood, McTominay, Henderson.
Second tier
Lingard, Tuanzebe, Williams.
Now Elanga.
That´s not why we are struggling.
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And yes, the probability to go from an academy to be world class is very low. For perspective Seb Larsson was the only player from his generation of the Arsenal academy that established himself in the Premier League.
This sum up our Academy problem, does it? For 20+ years, we can only produce the likes of Fletcher, Evans, at best, and more the likes of Richardson, Welbeck. How many 30m+ players have we produce? How many coming out of Southampton Academy?
The only good news is that so far we don't have any Lukaku / Salah / KDB
Fletch , but hopefully with time mason surpasses him as he has it in him.
Edit: why are people putting scholes in there? Isn't he considered a 92 member.
Edit: why are people putting scholes in there? Isn't he considered a 92 member.
This isn't true. It took a very long time for Welbeck to get any stick. A very very long time. For the longest time he and Lingard were the young lads who needed patience to come good. He was at one point on everyone's United XI team for the future. Anderson, cleverly, macheda, welbeck, rafael, fabio. They were our cup team and everyone was high on them especially Welbeck. He definitely wasn't getting called any of that because of how silky he was on the ball. He started losing patience when it became obvious how costly his misses were which I think was well after Fergie had left.
Yes, even the pashun thing didn't even become a meme till recent. He and Lingard were given a long rope. Welbeck maybe even more because of his talent on the ball. Even the british academy bias accusations thing started after Fergie left. Under SAF no one ever minded because we did it the right way. It only became a recent frustration because of the gimmicky fashion we implemented like the Daniel james and Wan Bissaka summer. There isn't irrational hatred towards united players who are actually united standard. Now if Fergie splashed 35m on Andy Carrol, 20m on Charlie Adams and shoehorned Cleverley and Ben foster into the squad we would have had it but he put quality first, everything else came second.
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Right now:
Rashford,
Greenwood
Elanga
but if they all continue current trajectories, I think it will be the reverse, of
Elanga
Greenwood
Rashford
Rashford,
Greenwood
Elanga
but if they all continue current trajectories, I think it will be the reverse, of
Elanga
Greenwood
Rashford
Same. He’s probably my favourite Utd player of all time and i still think of him as CO92. For example I said Fletcher was #1 but Scholes is on a completely different planet. Once in a lifetime player
The Forest fan in your life will tell you it could be James Garner, he was sensational for them at the weekend apparently.
Is the "class of 92" title just for those who played in the 1992 youth cup final?
I always think of Scholes as part of that group. Live and learn!
I always think of Scholes as part of that group. Live and learn!
Luke Chadwick!
Everyone agrees that Scholes is in the class of 92. Giggs, too. After all, it is just a term, like "Fergie's Fledglings", "Busby Babes" etc... the absolute dates are not important.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Class_of_'92
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...tt-neville-scholes-signed-as-man-utd-trainees
Which, although likely true, is kind of bizarre when you consider his illness and how much it hurt his career. Imagine if he hadn't had Crohn's, his name might fit alongside Scholes and Giggs.
Not alongside Scholes and Giggs but yeah, such a shame his career went downhill when he was on upward trajectory.
And most importantly he nutmegged Luis Figo in the UCL
Wes Brown for his ginger afro, Johnny Evans was underrated at the time and was a big loss, Fletcher could have been even better were it not for illness..
He's the best I've seen while watching youth team matches for sure, used to out-shine Pogba.
Jellyback can't even shoot without falling down every single time. And he's injury prone.
Rashford and Greenwood are so much better in those regard.