Yeah, if you arbitrarily narrow the timeframe he might squeak into the top 10 for you. He wouldn't for me though. It never worked for England because he just wasn't an elite player in that role - what else is there to say on the matter?. He was a sort of Scott Parker with goals in that role. Good to have, but a massive waste of his talents which were elite in other positions.
Biggest Myths in Football
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I didn't like him, but he was good player. And in his pomp football were different beast.
Of curiosity I checked barca MF of 2004.They had old Albertini and Davids, and that guy Gabi.
He would be good asset for any team in Europe.
And now i fell dirty.
Similar to how little the 93-94 team that flies off the tongue. They also played together a tiny amount. Surprised at the above though.
On this note the idea that Wenger's Arsenal were an attacking side who outscored us constantly. People should look at Arsenal's goals scored and conceded stats in 99 cause it'll blow your mind that they were basically a Mourinho team that season
How often did that midfield 4 play together?
Aye. What changed during Gerrard's career was the shape of PL midfields. They started the decade mostly playing 4-4-2, towards the end of the decade everyone was playing 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. Gerrard was great when everyone was playing 2 CMs, not so great when he was in a 2 versus 3, and then great again when it was 3 versus 3. There's a reason that the premier tactical mind of the era in Mourinho wanted him for Chelsea's 4-3-3.
Do you think Wenger's Arsenal developed that reputation post-2000 once the old back 5 faded out of the first team, or earlier on?
How can a player who didn't win a prem make into the top ten of all time?
Because it's a team trophy and not an individual award?
he'd be in mine yeah, just about
I'd have Bale in there too probably
out of interest what is your arbitrary cut-off point for those who haven't won it? Top 25?
That Chelsea will become cleverer in the transfer market by poaching Brightons head of recruitment. Didn’t work last Feb with Paul Winstanley and won’t work this Feb with Paul Jewel, I wonder if they’ll try again next Feb.
Yet were appraising individual players?!
Difficult, so many amazing players are up there who have won it.
If we start naming best players to not have won it and see if they're better than their counter parts who did.
Bale
Gerrard
Suarez
Kane
Top 25 is probably fair
Denis law did not relegate man united, they were relegated no matter what the result. One of the biggest myths in football.
That Keano ended Haaland's career
Newcastle's 'entertainers' of thr 95/96 season scored 7 goals less than United. They also only conceded 2 more than us that season.
I think Beckham was a terrible influence on that generation of English midfielders when playing for England. For a long period Beckham was hitting every 3rd ball 60 yards looking for the runner, basically turned the midfield into guys looking for the second ball. If you want a key reason why Scholes faded for England that is up there, instead of building around passers of the ball who could offer some control, it was all Hollywood pass, and guys like Gerrard and Lampard, better athletes who could handle the box to box pinball, came into that team when Beckham mania was at its height and there wasn't a strong enough manager to reign him in.
Go watch some MF in his pomp. And I mean in his time and peak. He would easily be starter in any top 4 EPL team and in some big Europeans Team.
Real had Baptista and Gravesen on their books in 2005.
I watched him in his pomp.
It's not about current Premier League teams, but the best Prem teams historically. It's very debatable if he'd start for some of them. He wouldn't get into United's treble team. Nor City's treble team either.
United fans who say that Drogba's offside goal in 2010 cost us the league, totally disregarding Macheda's handball for his goal
Funny how I keep forgetting about City's treble. No-one gives a s"it about them.
He'd need to replace Scholes in ours, and Gündoğan in City's.
Gündoğan maybe, Scholes - not a chance.
That 94 team was probably one of the best to watch, I went back and watched some of the highlights recently, I was gutted when Kanchelskis was old, fortunately it was about a week before I was about to buy a shirt with his name on.
Good point, although it is different chasing 1 goal. That 2nd was a killer and a ridiculous mistake by the lino.
Nope, was still a shit decision and chasing 2 goals killed it when a draw would have done. Machedas was only a consolation anyway.
As equally as shit a decision as Ashley Cole jumping in to Fletcher and getting a free kick that led to the winner at Stamford Bridge.
If you're just going to be a Liverpool fan on a wind up, maybe post something other than praise for Liverpool and shite about United occasionally, to keep your cover a little bit.
Liverpool fans who still claim Howard Webb cost them the League in 09 by awarding us a penalty against Spurs totally disreguard the fact that we won that match 5-2.
No, it gave Chelsea a 2 goal lead in a game where a draw was favourable for us. It was a mile offside and absolutely influenced the game and therefore the title as there was still over 10 minutes plus added time left.
Rooney's injury v Bayern was the key moment in that season though.
Winning European Cup was harder when only champions qualified. The opposite is true as there is now a larger pool of quality teams that makes it more difficult to get through and win.
Harder to qualify easier to win basically, there were a lot of drab teams on the way due to it encompassing all the champions.
India pulled out of the 1950 world cup over not being allowed to play barefoot. When they actually didn't go because of the FA not taking it too serious and there were also issues with being able to afford the cost of going to the tournament.
Arsene wenger revolutionised the premier league.
Roy keane was a great leader but as a pure footballer wasn’t that good.
Gerrard was better than Scholes.
Torres destroyed Vidic every time.
Beckham was only good at crosses and free kicks.
Bergkamp best no.10 in the premier league.
Roy keane was a great leader but as a pure footballer wasn’t that good.
Gerrard was better than Scholes.
Torres destroyed Vidic every time.
Beckham was only good at crosses and free kicks.
Bergkamp best no.10 in the premier league.
Great post, agree with all that
One massive myth is that Liverpool and City have had an impressive rivalry. Jamie Carragher embarrassing himself on sky sports the other day by claiming it’s the biggest rival in PL history 
Why do they insist on embarrassing themselves like this week in week out. It’s barely even top 5.
Why do they insist on embarrassing themselves like this week in week out. It’s barely even top 5.Twelve times. Never beaten.
Biggest United myth is Rock of Gibraltar leading to the Glazers and being responsible former current malaise.
Thanks for that. Do you know what the hardest side that midfield faced?
Probably Juve at home in the CL semi.
Edgar Davids bragged they'd schooled us and were confident for the return leg. Beckham pointedly called him 'wanker' when we went 3 2 up.
VVD is the best defender ever to play the game.
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I was actually thinking about this on Sunday in the lead-up to the game. We all know this anyway being impervious to the Scouse love-in endemic in the British football press, but the ‘Klopp is the only one keeping English football competitive’ claim really is a mystifying myth. We have been dire for ten years yet have finished above Liverpool as many times as they have above us in Klopp’s tenure. Regarding the City - Liverpool rivalry, here are some interesting statistics:One massive myth is that Liverpool and City have had an impressive rivalry. Jamie Carragher embarrassing himself on sky sports the other day by claiming it’s the biggest rival in PL history
- Liverpool have never beaten City in the Premier League at the Etihad under Klopp (City record at home 4W:4D:0L)
- The aggregate score in these games is 20-7 (eight games)
- City have won by 3+ goals three times in this timeframe
- City have scored 4+ goals three times in this timeframe
- Mourinho and Solskjaer, two managers absolutely ridiculed by the British press and rival fans, have both won at the Etihad in this timeframe
- Ten Hag, in his first season as United manager, also had a City scalp under his belt
- All three of the aforementioned United managers have finished ahead of Klopp in the Premier League
- Liverpool have four wins in eight Premier League games v Guardiola at Anfield (Liverpool record v City at Anfield 4W:3D:1L)
- The aggregate score of these games is 13-11
- The biggest winning margin in an Anfield fixture was actually by City (1-4 in 2021)
- Liverpool wins by more than one goal v City at Anfield: 1
Klopp has done a good job at Liverpool, nobody is denying that; what we do have issue with, however, is their incessant desire to insert themselves into every single ‘Best Ever™️‘ conversation and hyper-inflate their own sense of self-worth. They’ll never, ever change.
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The ridiculous notion that Ghana were robbed against Uruguay in the 2010 World Cup.
Many people forget / ignore the facts that the same player whose shot Suarez blocked (Dominic Adiyiah) threw himself to the ground to win the originating free-kick (Fucile was nowhere near him) so clearly that sequence of play shouldn’t have happened in the first place, and any subsequent goal should have been ruled out with Paintsil offside after the free-kick was taken and the ball was headed on. So Ghana had no right to feel robbed or aggrieved.
That’s before we even consider the fact that Uruguay were denied a stonewall penalty in the first half of extra-time, when Abreu was fouled by Paintsil in the box.
Adiyiah missing his penalty during the shootout, and Abreu winning it with his brilliant paneka, was definitely karma.
Many people forget / ignore the facts that the same player whose shot Suarez blocked (Dominic Adiyiah) threw himself to the ground to win the originating free-kick (Fucile was nowhere near him) so clearly that sequence of play shouldn’t have happened in the first place, and any subsequent goal should have been ruled out with Paintsil offside after the free-kick was taken and the ball was headed on. So Ghana had no right to feel robbed or aggrieved.
That’s before we even consider the fact that Uruguay were denied a stonewall penalty in the first half of extra-time, when Abreu was fouled by Paintsil in the box.
Adiyiah missing his penalty during the shootout, and Abreu winning it with his brilliant paneka, was definitely karma.