No . And why would you want to.
"Blackface" Discussion
- Thread starter Mister_Stubbs
- Start date
That's him done for then you'd assume.
when I was in 3rd grade I dressed up as ken griffey jr but without blackface
You took the steroids though, right?
Of course, you gotta commit to the bit.
Good lad.
You are going down the route of ‘all blackface is equal’. In reality it isn’t. Some of it is racist, and some of it isn’t. Rather than be scared of being pointed at an accused of being a racist I prefer to think about the facts.
I won't lie it does wind me up seeing people get at you for having an opinion and not voicing it in a way that they'd like you to, you keep doing you. You're one of the better (if not best) posters on these subjects and these guys are lucky to have you.I'm pretty sure I can do what I like as long as i'm not breaking any forum rules? You don't get to tell me what I can or can't do
And by your logic, this place is full of passive/aggressive comments with inside jokes that not everyone is in on, is it not? Yet you seem particularly irked by my singular comment
But i'm in a good mood:
God forbid a minority display a bit of attitude or passive aggressiveness in an emotive thread like this one.
To anyone who thinks I'm talking about them, I probably am... So what? I don't need to quote them or explain further. I've said all I'm going to say on that...
On topic. Trudeau is an idiot, and once he makes his predictable/mandatory apology that will be that. Wont be anything more to it unless he makes it so.... No need to worry about cancel culture, SJWs, etc...
I couldn't agree more - and engaging with it, is something I try not to do on here anymore.
If it was someone I'd have previous with, the conversation probably would've taken a different turn - and I was definitely on the verge.
But honestly, I was surprised I was getting that energy from oates, so I let it go because it didn't follow any pattern in behaviour towards me.
tbh I have to say I found your initial behaviour quite rude as you seemed to come on to the thread not to contribute but to share some sort of in-joke with someone else however I'm glad I persisted as it seemed to persuade you to engage and as has happened in the past we've enjoyed something more productive and I've learned something.
All in all though I'm glad you have your devoted support if you feel you are not treated in the way you want to be on this forum. Not one I typically visit that much so obviously I'm not that up on what goes on. All in all I probably won't bother over much in future, it's not encouraging. Probably not be a loss
Not realising blackface is offensive in 2001 is not a valid excuse.
Calling people pikeys in 2019 not terribly with-it.
Nah its all racist. Black face is racist simple as that. Doesn't necessarily mean that person is a racist as they could have been ignorant and made a mistake. But once they have done that they either have to apologise or people are likely to believe they are a racist.
I'll happily resign.
Don't be silly. I don't think Modmin on the Caf is exactly Public Life.
But the point is that i'm not required to contribute anything to the thread that everyone is invited to be a part of, and beyond that - I have contributed to the thread quite substantially in the past.tbh I have to say I found your initial behaviour quite rude as you seemed to come on to the thread not to contribute but to share some sort of in-joke with someone else however I'm glad I persisted as it seemed to persuade you to engage and as has happened in the past we've enjoyed something more productive and I've learned something.
All in all though I'm glad you have your devoted support if you feel you are not treated in the way you want to be on this forum. Not one I typically visit that much so obviously I'm not that up on what goes on. All in all I probably won't bother over much in future, it's not encouraging. Probably not be a loss
If you wanted to learn something, you could've asked a question. 'Hey what are you guys referring to in this post?' I would've happily answered.
Also if you found my behaviour quite rude, surely you find other people who do the same thing (albeit less overt) also rude? Almost every thread in the General & CE has comments that include inside jokes, or offer no contribution. Yet it seems like you took particular offence to my comment.
I think what you did was far ruder than what I did, but that's neither here nor there at this point - and like I said, i'm in a good mood
Other people have made non-sequiturs in this thread and I've asked them what they are referring to and had no reply. So, that's a non-sequitur non starter.But the point is that i'm not required to contribute anything to the thread that everyone is invited to be a part of, and beyond that - I have contributed to the thread quite substantially in the past.
If you wanted to learn something, you could've asked a question. 'Hey what are you guys referring to in this post?' I would've happily answered.
Also if you found my behaviour quite rude, surely you find other people who do the same thing (albeit less overt) also rude? Almost every thread in the General & CE has comments that include inside jokes, or offer no contribution. Yet it seems like you took particular offence to my comment.
I think what you did was far ruder than what I did, but that's neither here nor there at this point - and like I said, i'm in a good mood
Maybe it's not just me, maybe it is taking your contribution as not much of one and I've every right to chuck my four pence worth in too.
If an English person were to face paint green for St. paddy’s, is that racist?
Know many green skinned Irish folk, do ya?!
I guess I simply just come to a different conclusion.
For example I see very big differences between black face taking the piss with caricature big lips etc, hell let’s add a collar in their for extra racism! Vs a person blacking up as Morgan Freeman because Morgan freeman’s amazing.
It just makes no sense to me that these are the same.
Yes. Little green men will strike us down from above as soon as that happens
IN my opinion is a matter of what the world is and was. I am a person that constantly learns. I learn about homophobia, racism, male chauvinism etc... And I am a much better person that I was before. I am because I grew personally because I learnt on self- awareness but mostly because the world changes and teaches me lessons.
The world that my conscious was born in the 80s, was way more racist, homophobic and male chauvinist than is now.
I never claimed that I was an advanced of my times, so even being embarrassed, I will apologize till a certain extend on how I was because I was resonating with the society that I was living in. The only thing that I can do is learn and be better. I am sure that many things that are wrong today and we can't see today (maybe vegetarianism/veganism and specism) will be outrageous in 20/30 years onward
Context is important. Is not the same 30 years ago than now, is not the same europe where blackface concept is not even close than the one in US, than North american concept. Again the only thing that we can be call out is not learning, recognize what was wrong even if we were not conscious of that back then and work to improve
The world that my conscious was born in the 80s, was way more racist, homophobic and male chauvinist than is now.
I never claimed that I was an advanced of my times, so even being embarrassed, I will apologize till a certain extend on how I was because I was resonating with the society that I was living in. The only thing that I can do is learn and be better. I am sure that many things that are wrong today and we can't see today (maybe vegetarianism/veganism and specism) will be outrageous in 20/30 years onward
Context is important. Is not the same 30 years ago than now, is not the same europe where blackface concept is not even close than the one in US, than North american concept. Again the only thing that we can be call out is not learning, recognize what was wrong even if we were not conscious of that back then and work to improve
I am not equating it to blackface or saying that blackface isn’t racist. I was just curious to see if people would consider it racist.
This is a joke right? Honestly between this thread and the Lukaku racism one, I'm losing my faith in humanity.
Interesting, though I find it hard to believe that someone who idolizes Morgan Freeman or any other person of colour would think it's acceptable or respectful to black up as an homage to their greatness.
So asking someone’s opinion on something makes you feel offended and feel for humanity.
One of the issues I struggle with is whether I think it’s ok because I’m not a racist...so I just instinctively don’t care about it, I recognise colour as one of the many defining aesthetic characteristics of a person.
Maybe I’m wrong and people are genuinely being racist and blacking up as famous people! I’d hope not but you never know.
She's usually passive aggressive? Wow. Never seen that on here before re: villian.Well let us all in on the joke then why don't you?
Or keep your comments passive/aggressive as predictably usual.
Colour is irrelevant, to be fair. So highlighting this characteristic as a required piece of the homage kinda makes it a little bit racist. It's maybe less racist if you're dressing up as a famous person you admire but it's still wildly inappropriate.
In the early 1980s I saw hundreds of black kids, Latino kids, Asian kids all dressing up as Han Solo and Luke Skywalker. Yet no one ever thought to "white up" their face to be more accurate or realistic or whatever the point of that is.
It’s a fair point, but the question is would
I find it racist if they had whited up? Maybe I’m too laid back haha!
That’s up to you, it depends on how you feel about it. I wouldn’t care too much, I’d just think it was weird.
History matters it's not racist because one person decided to dress up as it joke. It's racist because it has for hundreds of years been used as a way to make fun of black people. This is not an isolated incident.
You can't take something like this on a case by case basis because that's not the historic use of it. Its not the same if a black person whites up again because of history.
Once, I was about nine years old, my family and I were part of a group participating in a carnival procession. We dressed up as black people (didn’t call it that, though). With black face and even with makeup to make the lips appear bigger. We wore jungle themed clothes. I still wonder what people of color, especially children, must have felt like seeing us. I was nine years old and I still feel so bad about this. The worst thing is, that my mother, who is usually quite progressive, still won’t fully admit just how wrong and obviously racist that was. I guess out of shame, more than anything else.
Anyway, I try to take it as a learning experience. While I know that I’m hardly to blame and I know that those in my family being part of that group meant no harm, I think I learned a great deal about what racism actually is, how it can be normalised and thus feel completely fine.
But most of all, I now understand that intentions don’t mean shit. If something is racist, it’s racist. Intentions don’t matter. Good will and ignorance don’t matter either. I feel that is the biggest problem. A lack of reflection by huge parts of the public. People don’t think about the effect their jokes, traditions and even figures of speech have on other people. They don’t think about how harmful even names for dishes, streets etc. can actually be.
And in those cases, these people might not be racist, but what they do definitely is and they need to do some serious thinking and reconsider how they conduct themselves. And most of all, they need to learn to accept some very slight inconveniences in order to create a better environment for everyone.
And I think this is the point, where we can finally separate the racists from the ignorant. Those who are willing to put in that little bit of effort, who listen to those affected, and who learn from their mistakes are not racists. But those who refuse to do so, for whatever reason, they are just racist assholes.
Doesn’t exactly fit the discussion about Trudeau, but I wanted that one of my chest. Had no idea what I was doing, didn’t have any choice really and yet I still think it’s the most embarrassing thing I’ve ever done.
Anyway, I try to take it as a learning experience. While I know that I’m hardly to blame and I know that those in my family being part of that group meant no harm, I think I learned a great deal about what racism actually is, how it can be normalised and thus feel completely fine.
But most of all, I now understand that intentions don’t mean shit. If something is racist, it’s racist. Intentions don’t matter. Good will and ignorance don’t matter either. I feel that is the biggest problem. A lack of reflection by huge parts of the public. People don’t think about the effect their jokes, traditions and even figures of speech have on other people. They don’t think about how harmful even names for dishes, streets etc. can actually be.
And in those cases, these people might not be racist, but what they do definitely is and they need to do some serious thinking and reconsider how they conduct themselves. And most of all, they need to learn to accept some very slight inconveniences in order to create a better environment for everyone.
And I think this is the point, where we can finally separate the racists from the ignorant. Those who are willing to put in that little bit of effort, who listen to those affected, and who learn from their mistakes are not racists. But those who refuse to do so, for whatever reason, they are just racist assholes.
Doesn’t exactly fit the discussion about Trudeau, but I wanted that one of my chest. Had no idea what I was doing, didn’t have any choice really and yet I still think it’s the most embarrassing thing I’ve ever done.
Apparently Trudeau can't remember how many times he did black face.
Which suggests more images and videos might surface. It also suggests that despite his claims of knowing it was wrong, under any circumstances, he previously thought it was perfectly fine.
Which suggests more images and videos might surface. It also suggests that despite his claims of knowing it was wrong, under any circumstances, he previously thought it was perfectly fine.
Apologies for sounding ignorant, but can someone explain exactly why blackface is considered racist? Is it the simple act of wearing black/dark coloured makeup, or is there a lot of specific history around this practice that gives it a racist context?
I suppose specific history would be the minstrel shows from America. Possibly the golliwog doll's also portraying Africans as very dark skinned and with big red lips.
The difference is whiteface (or uh...greenface?) has no real historical grounding as being used for a racial caricature, or contributing to nefarious stereotypes. That’s without even acknowledging the power dynamic in play. There’s never really a situation where blackface isn’t racist. Maybe as a satire to point out the idiocy of the perpetrator, but even that’s pretty played out.
In a parade near where I live a bunch of people did blackface and the entire community jumped to their defence with ‘but white chicks!?!?!1’. When one of my nans died a picture of her blacked up was used as one of her memorial pictures. Around here most people don’t view it as offensive, or if it’s called out it’s another sign of pc gone mad.
Here is were you are wrong. In netherlands and Spain was not racist till we had the influence of northamerican culture. Now, as we can see that for the global community it is racist, we are addressing it