Brianna Ghey Murder

[Damien]

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Daily Telegraph. And Daily Mail is just as bad using the same "glamour shot" for Jenkinson and the mugshot for Ratcliffe. Papers should only be allowed to use mugshots.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Daily Telegraph. And Daily Mail is just as bad using the same "glamour shot" for Jenkinson and the mugshot for Ratcliffe. Papers should only be allowed to use mugshots.

Well it's guaranteed to titilate the middle classes, showing a "normal" looking kid like yours as a killer, also winds up people who take issue (rightly) with the fact the wrong image is used in poor taste so they get clicks, hate clicks, angry clicks.

Clicks is all they care about. We're not far away from a killers topless photo being used by these disgusting rags to drive engagement at all costs.

 

[Solius]

Daily Telegraph. And Daily Mail is just as bad using the same "glamour shot" for Jenkinson and the mugshot for Ratcliffe. Papers should only be allowed to use mugshots.

There are so many rules that need putting in regarding what the papers can do. They get away with glamourising so much shit.

 

[Solius]

The Daily Mail use the mug shot of the boy but one of the girl in make-up. What justification do they have for that? And then their headline is about how the twisted killers murdered Brianna because they’re transphobic. As if the DM doesn’t peddle that shit regularly. The audacity of those cnuts.

 

[Wibble]

I do wonder how much the internet has played a part in twisting their minds and having a psychological impact.

These sort of murders don't seem to have become more common even if perpetrators use the internet to fuel their perverted fantasies.

 

[golden_blunder]

As tragic as it is I'd rather they get the treatment they need. If the amount of money we spend on the prison system were spent on early years support and mental health services, the size of the prison estate could be reduced drastically.

If they brought back hanging (which I’m sure the brexiteers have probably talked about already) they’d save a bunch of money on prison costs

 

[Wilt]

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Why not name the newspaper?

 

[flameinthesun]

Well what else could it be? If the environment is the same, but the response between two kids is so drastically different (murdering vs non murdering) it has to be heavily based on genetics.

It doesn't "have to be" based on genetics. No two kid's experiences will be the same even if brought up in the same environment. You have brothers whose father's left them when young and one decides not to do the same to his kids and the other ends up repeating the cycle. We see this all the time within the same family units how children can have completely different personalities and different perspectives of how they grew up despite having the same experience. With regards to the 2 kids in this case it would be interesting to have more information on their family situation etc which I haven't really been able to find.

 

[That'sHernandez]

If they brought back hanging (which I’m sure the brexiteers have probably talked about already) they’d save a bunch of money on prison costs

They'd spend the money they spend on prisons, and then money on the judicial process associated with the decades worth of appeals people on death row go through.

Also, our society has moved on from the death sentence. It's not a deterrent and it's not cheaper. The majority of perpetrators of crime are victims themselves.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Why not name the newspaper?

Doesn't want to drive traffic to the paper. Which is what they want.

 

[golden_blunder]

They'd spend the money they spend on prisons, and then money on the judicial process associated with the decades worth of appeals people on death row go through.

Also, our society has moved on from the death sentence. It's not a deterrent and it's not cheaper. The majority of perpetrators of crime are victims themselves.

Tell that to JRM

 

[Maticmaker]

Some people are just messed up regardless of circumstance though.

That is very true, nobody seems to notice until something like this happens. However, for months now, maybe years, we will hear of the chances missed to spot how these two were so disturbed, but yet that no one around them apparently noticed?
What happens to the people who were responsible for these two, who are both still teenagers, was nobody noticing? .
During my teenage years (long time ago!!) my parents seem to know everything about me, who I was friends with, where we went, what money I was spending, questions, questions all the time. Yes, it led to massive arguments, but they never let up.

 

[11101]

You'd hope they get some kind of psychological help towards rehabilitation, but it was such a vicious premeditated murder that a long custodial sentence is inevitable.

Assuming you can rehabilitate them. I've watched a few interviews with prison officers and my wife's grandad was one for 20 odd years, he said the same thing as all of them. Some prisoners are decent people who made a mistake and will do their time and get out, no rehab necessary. Then the nutjobs and hardened criminals will simply play the system until they get released and reoffend. He didn't think he'd seen a truly rehabilitated prisoner in his entire career, and I'm fairly certain which of those two categories these pair are in.

 

[Bert_]

I agree with her father. Why name them? All of a sudden it's all about the killers and the victim becomes secondary and her name will no doubt end up forgotten in years to come, whilst the killers become infamous.

 

[Jippy]

Assuming you can rehabilitate them. I've watched a few interviews with prison officers and my wife's grandad was one for 20 odd years, he said the same thing as all of them. Some prisoners are decent people who made a mistake and will do their time and get out, no rehab necessary. Then the nutjobs and hardened criminals will simply play the system until they get released and reoffend. He didn't think he'd seen a truly rehabilitated prisoner in his entire career, and I'm fairly certain which of those two categories these pair are in.

Yep I'm pretty sure you're not rehabilitating the likes of Levi Bellfield or Roy Whiting. These kids are young but the complete absence of empathy or remorse don't bode well.

 

[Frosty]

Why not name the newspaper?

They have a right to anonymity.

 

[Wilt]

I agree with her father. Why name them? All of a sudden it's all about the killers and the victim becomes secondary and her name will no doubt end up forgotten in years to come, whilst the killers become infamous.

They would have been named when they turned 18 regardless

 

[Vitro]

It doesn't "have to be" based on genetics. No two kid's experiences will be the same even if brought up in the same environment. You have brothers whose father's left them when young and one decides not to do the same to his kids and the other ends up repeating the cycle. We see this all the time within the same family units how children can have completely different personalities and different perspectives of how they grew up despite having the same experience. With regards to the 2 kids in this case it would be interesting to have more information on their family situation etc which I haven't really been able to find.

Unless these children are identical twins then you really can’t exclude genetics having a large part to play in these different responses. Of course in reality there’s an extremely complex interplay between environment and genetics resulting in responses unique to that particular individual, but on a societal level perhaps a little more predictable e.g. socioeconomic deprivation of a population resulting in higher rates of criminality.

 

[That'sHernandez]

Assuming you can rehabilitate them. I've watched a few interviews with prison officers and my wife's grandad was one for 20 odd years, he said the same thing as all of them. Some prisoners are decent people who made a mistake and will do their time and get out, no rehab necessary. Then the nutjobs and hardened criminals will simply play the system until they get released and reoffend. He didn't think he'd seen a truly rehabilitated prisoner in his entire career, and I'm fairly certain which of those two categories these pair are in.

I’ve worked in prison and i work in probation. Prison is a different world to the outside, it’s a game of cat and mouse. The reality is there isn’t the funding to do meaningful work to rehabilitate people, particularly considering most services that exist won’t work with people who don’t fit neatly in the box their service deals with. There’s a distinct lack of joined up thinking, and a fear of taking on anything difficult. However, the reality is the excuses originate from a lack of funding to be able to commit the time and resources to helping difficult people.

I know of a young woman who has learning difficulties and trauma-induced schizophrenia, amongst other issues. She was pimped by her own dad and cousins to pay drug debts, and has an upbringing whereby the solution to not being able to pay bills is to walk away and not pay them. And in a meeting about her safeguarding a learning difficulties said, without having met this young woman, that it sounds like on balance of probabilities she has the capacity to make decisions for herself and simply makes 'poor choices'. However, when you consider she has grown up in an environment and the regard to which personal responsibilities are held, there is not a chance she can possibly have the capacity to make decisions like you or I can because she has not been taught how it at any point in her life.

 

[11101]

I’ve worked in prison and i work in probation. Prison is a different world to the outside, it’s a game of cat and mouse. The reality is there isn’t the funding to do meaningful work to rehabilitate people, particularly considering most services that exist won’t work with people who don’t fit neatly in the box their service deals with. There’s a distinct lack of joined up thinking, and a fear of taking on anything difficult. However, the reality is the excuses originate from a lack of funding to be able to commit the time and resources to helping difficult people.

I know of a young woman who has learning difficulties and trauma-induced schizophrenia, amongst other issues. She was pimped by her own dad and cousins to pay drug debts, and has an upbringing whereby the solution to not being able to pay bills is to walk away and not pay them. And in a meeting about her safeguarding a learning difficulties said, without having met this young woman, that it sounds like on balance of probabilities she has the capacity to make decisions for herself and simply makes 'poor choices'. However, when you consider she has grown up in an environment and the regard to which personal responsibilities are held, there is not a chance she can possibly have the capacity to make decisions like you or I can because she has not been taught how it at any point in her life.

That's an issue to be addressed before she got as far as prison though no? Once she's sat in front of you it's likely already too late.

 

[That'sHernandez]

That's an issue to be addressed before she got as far as prison though no? Once she's sat in front of you it's likely already too late.

These people don’t necessarily come to the attention of the relevant services before ending up in the criminal justice system. At which point they are in a system that is not set up to be able to meet their needs, and you often find their recidivism increases.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Life with minimum 22 years for Scarlet

life with minimum 20 years for Eddie

Let’s hope they never be released and they suffer significantly whilst rotting behind those bars

They will more than likely end up in a semi-open prison and get better conditions than many law abiding people live in these days

 

[That'sHernandez]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68193103

What a commendable interview. The grieving mother of Brianna Ghey is far more measured and understanding than some of the posters in here.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

This is such a bleak and nasty story.

I always hold some sympathy for the parents of the accused/guilty kids.

It's easy to cast them as abhorrently defective parents who raised a monster but I don't believe this is always the case.

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[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

They will more than likely end up in a semi-open prison and get better conditions than many law abiding people live in these days

Feel free to break the law and go live in one of these so called holidays camps.

 

[André Dominguez]

This is the key thing really. Fundamentally anyone who commits a serious crime like this is a function of their childhood - whether that’s nurture (the environment they grow up in) or nature (the mental considerations there born with). Both of these can be managed if identified and funded. The issue is money is, as you say, funnelled to punishing those who commit the crime than the services which would stop it ever happening. I don’t know how the economics of both compare, although obviously it isn’t and shouldn’t just be an economic question.

Obviously though, if and when people do go on to commit such crimes, they should feel the wrath of punishment.

ASPD is not easy to track, specially if the person has a functional form of ASPD. For that to happen you should track children that engage in abusive behaviour, but most of the times that happens the "they're just kids" excuse will get in the way of properly signaling them.

That's why most serial killers are usually not caught, they live their normal lives, having a well paid job and a family and no one suspects about their dark secrets.