I'll do you a favour and add the final group for you:
Not good enough to be worth mentioning:
Smalling
British Core
- Thread starter devilish
- Start date
Not good enough to be worth mentioning:
Smalling
It's true that our current British players are generally around the same standard as our current non-British players. The only difference really is that the 7 in the team today cost us less than we spent on Fred and their combined wages are about equal to one Sanchez. So in terms of absolute quality there isn't much difference, in terms of value for money there's a huge win for the British players.
Going forward though it seems obvious that we should be focusing more on the British market than we have been in recent years. Ferguson always made sure that United were signing the best young British players but since he retired we have abandoned that policy. Of the 25 first team signings we have made only Shaw was a highly regarded young British player, and he just won both our POTY awards. We have let our rivals dominate this market while we have focused on extremely expensive foreign players, the majority of whom have been disasters. Given how many talented young British players there are around at the moment it makes sense for us to return to our previously successful model and try and buy the likes of Wan-Bissaka, Sancho and Rice before they end up at City, Liverpool and Tottenham.
Going forward though it seems obvious that we should be focusing more on the British market than we have been in recent years. Ferguson always made sure that United were signing the best young British players but since he retired we have abandoned that policy. Of the 25 first team signings we have made only Shaw was a highly regarded young British player, and he just won both our POTY awards. We have let our rivals dominate this market while we have focused on extremely expensive foreign players, the majority of whom have been disasters. Given how many talented young British players there are around at the moment it makes sense for us to return to our previously successful model and try and buy the likes of Wan-Bissaka, Sancho and Rice before they end up at City, Liverpool and Tottenham.
Yes lets get a full British team and slip into further mediocrity.
Which British players would we want (that are not already at the club). Declan Rice? James Maddison? Chilwell? Sancho?
They have Sterling, Stones, Walker and Delph. Believe it or not but Delph is a big character in the dressing room.
What they do have though, what Pep insists on is that only English is allowed to be spoken by all players when they’re at work and he had a circular dressing room installed to help combat against cliques.
City have done something more rare and have bought high quality foreign players that have become completely assimilated to the club. Their core has been Kompany, D Silva, Aguero, Toure and Zabaleta, obviously the latter two have now left.
Most top sides have a strong indigenous core, not always the best players but the leaders in the dressing room: Real, Barca, Bayern, Juve etc.
None of those players except Sterling maybe of late, are really the core of the club. Kompany, Aguero, Silva etc
I don't doubt Delph etc are strong voices in the dressing room, but the fact is without the core of quality they have in the team they wouldn't get very far.
I agree though it would be great to have a strong English core, we actually do but what we don't have is a core of quality.
We have Rashford, Young, Smalling etc Young and Rashford especially seem like strong characters, but where is our quality?
Rice and Maguire would be a very expensive but ideal British core. A British core only works if the players in your core are in the first XI of the national team. There's central defenders at Burnley, Everton and Leicester that get picked ahead of Smalling and Jones and that tells you all you need to know about our Championship level British core.
The less British players we have in the team the better. 2 or 3 should be the max. Foreign players are just better.
Feck the British core. We used to have the best British players not these deadwoods.
I think Ole’s plan for signing players this summer is completely daft. He wants to find young British players that are under the radar, how many even are they of that profile? We’re strongly linked to Dan James who will be cheap but is a pace merchant with questionable end product. It seems he’s more in the vain of Adama Traore or Aaron Lennon. If this is the kind of player we are targeting as a broad policy then I’m worried.
We need guys like Sancho, Rice or AWB if we want English players, players ready to make an impact in the Premier League.
Agree but we are where we are. Maybe the club really is scaling back on its spending though...
I was thinking that before. If Ole is the stooge to get the fans to accept the Glazers scaling back investment. I was going to make a thread for it.
Nationality and race are poor banner headlines.
We simply need a strong spine, a leader on the pitch and the right players in the right positions, irrespective of race or nation.
We simply need a strong spine, a leader on the pitch and the right players in the right positions, irrespective of race or nation.
I'd rather we play 11 players who are good at football. Who cares what patch of dirt they were born on?
City have 1 English regular starter, and they have 198 points in 2 years.
Why?
City have 1 English regular starter, and they have 198 points in 2 years.
I like to take nationality out of the equation when judging any players. You are either good or not and certainly most of our Enlgish players are not. But Ole and coaching staff seem to love them.
Nationality shouldn't matter. What we need is a core of young players that we can form into a cohesive group capable of executing a system. I don't think we've had a collective attacking plan since Ferguson's 06-11 team, which is 8 years ago. Since then we've largely depended on individual performances to get us the goals.
Because you can't.
Only ones I can think of is Rice, Sancho, Wan Bissaka. Maguire is being mentioned but I don't think he's good enough although he's miles better than Jones and Smalling.
if we give up on our British core, who's going to do all the hard work? who's going to provide bravery and pride?
Whilst I don’t think they’re world beaters, every single player mentioned in your post and my post would be an upgrade on what we already have in their respective positions
I believe this British Core BS is not an idea that Ole came up with. Why would he, he isn’t even British. I suspect he is surrounded by some people who have too much influence over him, and he has now bought into their philosophy.
Have to admit I'm warming to the idea. It would be good to finally have an identity again after years of floundering. It will also be nice to see a sense of long term planning, with some players who could give us 6-7 years of service. It's a return to what this club used to be about, and it feels like we might be gaining a bit of structure at long last.
Let's say we sign Wan-Bissaka which is looking likely, Maguire is apparently getting closer and he appears to be our only option at CB. Longstaff has been gaining traction, maybe Sancho sees this and decides he wants to be a part of it next year if all goes well...but even this August we could be looking at 7 British starters next season.
Let's say we sign Wan-Bissaka which is looking likely, Maguire is apparently getting closer and he appears to be our only option at CB. Longstaff has been gaining traction, maybe Sancho sees this and decides he wants to be a part of it next year if all goes well...but even this August we could be looking at 7 British starters next season.
Ole’s in the ERG.
Anyway, I’m of the view that if two players are equal in quality and one is British, then I’d lean towards him. Beyond that, this Aryan focus is a no from me. Best player for the job, in short.
Anyway, I’m of the view that if two players are equal in quality and one is British, then I’d lean towards him. Beyond that, this Aryan focus is a no from me. Best player for the job, in short.
It’s not necessarily a British core, but a core of players who have been brought up at Manchester United, who have spent their formative years at the club and therefore you would hope are more ingrained and wedded to the club. What we don’t want is a load of players who just come for the money, and have no concept of the history of the club.
Manchester United has been built on the premise of promoting youth. We need to get back to that, and augment those players with the best players we can buy. We could replace (tomorrow) Darmian, Rojo, Bailly & Sanchez with players coming through the club and no one would notice.
We need less squad players who are just stealing a living - no matter what their nationality. McTominay has made more of an impact than £52m Fred, neither is going to be a really top class/ world class player - so we should be looking at promoting players like McTominay and not wasting massive money on squad players, but instead spending it where is matters - which is currently on a world class RB and right winger.
Manchester United has been built on the premise of promoting youth. We need to get back to that, and augment those players with the best players we can buy. We could replace (tomorrow) Darmian, Rojo, Bailly & Sanchez with players coming through the club and no one would notice.
We need less squad players who are just stealing a living - no matter what their nationality. McTominay has made more of an impact than £52m Fred, neither is going to be a really top class/ world class player - so we should be looking at promoting players like McTominay and not wasting massive money on squad players, but instead spending it where is matters - which is currently on a world class RB and right winger.
Long term planning isn't just signing a load of youngsters and it's not what we used to be about. The vast majority of our signings since SAF have all been ones that could give 6 years service. As for Sancho wanting to come because we sign Longstaff and Maguire
We lack leaders. Not one single leader in our squad, British or otherwise.
Generally I couldn't care less about whether a player is British or not and a lot of the people who do often do so for reasons that are rather reductive in thinking.
However, there are certainly some definite benefits. A young British player will usually have fewer problems adjusting to living Manchester, is probably less likely to want to leave the club for foreign lands at some point in the future and brings something in terms of marketability given the national team is a product. So a British core can bring a sense of stability, I guess.
In terms of money it's a double-edged sword. Buy them early and relatively cheap (as we did with James and as we may do with Longstaff, or as Liverpool did with someone like Robertson) and the fact that they're British will protect their market value to a certain degree, even if they fail here. Not to mention massively inflate their value if they're a success. However if you buy them on the wrong side of building hype (as we are with Maguire, if that happens) and you pay the British tax instead.
My main issue with this idea of returning to a British core is that we already have a fair few British players. Shaw, Young, Smalling, Jones, McTominay, Lingard and Rashford all knocking about in or around the first team. Our problem is quality, not nationality.
However, there are certainly some definite benefits. A young British player will usually have fewer problems adjusting to living Manchester, is probably less likely to want to leave the club for foreign lands at some point in the future and brings something in terms of marketability given the national team is a product. So a British core can bring a sense of stability, I guess.
In terms of money it's a double-edged sword. Buy them early and relatively cheap (as we did with James and as we may do with Longstaff, or as Liverpool did with someone like Robertson) and the fact that they're British will protect their market value to a certain degree, even if they fail here. Not to mention massively inflate their value if they're a success. However if you buy them on the wrong side of building hype (as we are with Maguire, if that happens) and you pay the British tax instead.
My main issue with this idea of returning to a British core is that we already have a fair few British players. Shaw, Young, Smalling, Jones, McTominay, Lingard and Rashford all knocking about in or around the first team. Our problem is quality, not nationality.
That's not what I said
I said British talent, which it was.
If you believe the reports he wanted to come anyway, before we fecked ourselves out of the Champions League places. If we can convince him we're building a good young team based around a solid structure, with a load of his mates, it's got to be a tempting proposition in addition to the one we apparently already had him convinced with.Long term planning isn't just signing a load of youngsters and it's not what we used to be about. The vast majority of our signings since SAF have all been ones that could give 6 years service. As for Sancho wanting to come because we sign Longstaff and Maguire
Let's go full british. Feck it.
Pickford
AWB Smalling Maguire Shaw
Rice McTominay Longstaff
Lingard Rashy James
Not too bad actually. Might get into Europe.
Pickford
AWB Smalling Maguire Shaw
Rice McTominay Longstaff
Lingard Rashy James
Not too bad actually. Might get into Europe.
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Exactly. foreigners are just better at everything really. Bollox to this British shite.
Every time i see rice's name crop up i get an involuntary shudder.
What's worse than signing Eric Dier? Signing the next Eric Dier.
What's worse than signing Eric Dier? Signing the next Eric Dier.
Its all good and well signing british players, but if they are not of potential league winning quality then there is zero point in doing it. We need to be challenging for the title in minimum 2-3 seasons, if not sooner. Signing mediocre players just to get a british core who “get” the United way isn’t gonna cut it for me. If they are not showing Sancho levels of potential then id rather we not spunk £25m on a midfielder we could probably mould in the under 21s.
Pope
Bissaka Maguire Smalling Chillwell
McTominey McGinn
Grealish
Sancho Rashford James
Bissaka Maguire Smalling Chillwell
McTominey McGinn
Grealish
Sancho Rashford James
All British, young and skilled team!
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A hard core would be better for penetration.
I think signing British player a gives you one main thing - they grew up wanting to play premiership football and not la liga, theybdont care about living in England, they won't push for the move when the going gets tough because of this
Getting quality players should be the key. English/British or otherwise.
Yes, it would be nice if the young talents from the country played for us. But if our ambition is to take on the top teams in PL, leave alone playing teams in Europe, waiting for that perfect set of English talents to emerge is futile.
Yes, it would be nice if the young talents from the country played for us. But if our ambition is to take on the top teams in PL, leave alone playing teams in Europe, waiting for that perfect set of English talents to emerge is futile.
Dwight McNeil next one in.
I could see us going in for him.
Longstaff - McTominay
James - Lingard - McNeil
Rashford
Let's get Warnock in as DOF and Big Sam as manager while we're at it.
He's talented, but I doubt we'd go for a kid we released when he was 15