Bruno, McTominay, Fred

[Renegade]

McSauce isn’t a #6 in many people’s mind, but an #8 like Fred. And certainly not on par with current Fabinho or Fernandinho of seasons past. Hell even Matic is a better #6 than McSauce, he protects the defence much more and is a safer player around our box.

I don’t understand why people don’t get this.Was the same with Fletcher, people thinking he was a #6

 

[MadMike]

Why do people think Grealish is a more fitting #10 than Bruno? Especially since Bruno has been playing as #10 for the last couple of seasons to great effect and Grealish has been playing LW. I don’t quite understand the rationale.

It seems to me that it’ll be hard to fit them both in the same team, especially with Rashford occupying the left wing. And yeah ok, Man City often play with two attacking mids (KDB and Silva) ahead of one DM (Fernandinho or Rodri). But they compensate that with a collective very high press to win the ball back early. That’s not an easy thing to emulate.

Edit: Not to mention we seem to want to play counter attacking football. Which is the opposite of pressing high.

 

[tjb]

Yes but if we sign Grealish and keep Matic, then we have the option of starting Bruno where fred is, Matic swapping with McTominay, Grealish as the 10 (or even swap Grealish and Bruno around). Theres quality depth, competition for places, rotation and versatile players that can fill in multiple roles if they're all in form and we want to start them all (Grealish on the wing for example, or Bruno on the right in attack if needed). Essentially right now with Pogba would be perfect, with Grealish replacing him but all the spots being up for grabs and everyone needing to keep up form.

Grealish is not a typical 8. He is a dribbler, Bruno is a 10. Neither of them play the roles Fred or McTominay do. It would be like putting Ozil in Xabi Alonso's position or playing De Bruyne in a 2 man midfield. Let's face the facts of this case, we play a 4231 most of the time and a 352 at certain points. Signing Grealish in our 4231 would mean either Rashford is push as a striker and Grealish plays on the left or Grealish plays a Bernardo Silva role on the right. He would not play in a deep role, and neither would Bruno.

In the 352 (3412) that we play, Grealish would come in as the striker supporting rashford with Bruno in behind. In both instances, Fred and McTominay will still have no rotation options. Fact of the matter is this, considering where we are, it would be a lot wiser to sign a new dm with the intention of him starting ahead of one of the two. We are in 7th place at the moment, we can get better. Being comfortable with Fred and Mctominay alone knowing that there are possibly 3 midfields that are better in the league isn't going to get us anywhere. We need to be more ambitious than that.

 

[tjb]

Why do people think Grealish is a more fitting #10 than Bruno? Especially since Bruno has been playing as #10 for the last couple of seasons to great effect and Grealish has been playing LW. I don’t quite understand the rationale.

It seems to me that it’ll be hard to fit them both in the same team, especially with Rashford occupying the left wing. And yeah ok, Man City often play with two attacking mids (KDB and Silva) ahead of one DM (Fernandinho or Rodri). But they compensate that with a collective very high press to win the ball back early. That’s not an easy thing to emulate.

Edit: Not to mention we seem to want to play counter attacking football. Which is the opposite of pressing high.

People seem to just be forcing signings in. Us signing Bruno should have meant talks of an attacking midfielder should have ended. As of now I do not think either Fred or Mctominay are great at sitting in midfield. They may develop this side to their game, but we would still need someone to do this for us now.

 

[tjb]

Yes but if we sign Grealish and keep Matic, then we have the option of starting Bruno where fred is, Matic swapping with McTominay, Grealish as the 10 (or even swap Grealish and Bruno around). Theres quality depth, competition for places, rotation and versatile players that can fill in multiple roles if they're all in form and we want to start them all (Grealish on the wing for example, or Bruno on the right in attack if needed). Essentially right now with Pogba would be perfect, with Grealish replacing him but all the spots being up for grabs and everyone needing to keep up form.

Pogba isn't staying. We have to face the reality of the situation.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Why do people think Grealish is a more fitting #10 than Bruno? Especially since Bruno has been playing as #10 for the last couple of seasons to great effect and Grealish has been playing LW. I don’t quite understand the rationale.

It seems to me that it’ll be hard to fit them both in the same team, especially with Rashford occupying the left wing. And yeah ok, Man City often play with two attacking mids (KDB and Silva) ahead of one DM (Fernandinho or Rodri). But they compensate that with a collective very high press to win the ball back early. That’s not an easy thing to emulate.

Edit: Not to mention we seem to want to play counter attacking football. Which is the opposite of pressing high.

good question. Our set up and team balance presumes Rashford type striker on the left. Makes perfect sense.

Now, Grealish is tactically fit for a different set up because he is also, just like Rashford is the team’s biggest talent. He is really good, but doesn’t suit us. He could play 10 at United but Bruno is MUCH better as 10 for our set up.

Grealish is being quoted as high as £60 M. What’s the point???

 

[thepolice123]

Yes but if we sign Grealish and keep Matic, then we have the option of starting Bruno where fred is, Matic swapping with McTominay, Grealish as the 10 (or even swap Grealish and Bruno around). Theres quality depth, competition for places, rotation and versatile players that can fill in multiple roles if they're all in form and we want to start them all (Grealish on the wing for example, or Bruno on the right in attack if needed). Essentially right now with Pogba would be perfect, with Grealish replacing him but all the spots being up for grabs and everyone needing to keep up form.

One consistent theme in Ole’s tactics this season is the double pivot midfield and #10. It has featured in both the 4-2-3-1 and 3-5-2 variations. Bruno is not a like-for-like competition for Fred. What we really should be looking at is a cost-effective quality backup for Matic in the DM, Bruno in the #10 and spend big on a RW.

 

[Gator Nate]

Bring in Emeliano Buendia when Norwich get relegated. #3 in Key Passes (2.8/game), #4 in Dribbles (3.3/game), and #5 in Assists (7) in spite of playing for the Canaries. Oh, and he's only 23.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Bring in Emeliano Buendia when Norwich get relegated. #3 in Key Passes (2.8/game), #4 in Dribbles (3.3/game), and #5 in Assists (7) in spite of playing for the Canaries. Oh, and he's only 23.

Cool choice. £25+.

 

[bosnian_red]

Pogba isn't staying. We have to face the reality of the situation.

Obviously. Was just replying to the off chance that he does stay (or if he comes back this season).

Grealish is not a typical 8. He is a dribbler, Bruno is a 10. Neither of them play the roles Fred or McTominay do. It would be like putting Ozil in Xabi Alonso's position or playing De Bruyne in a 2 man midfield. Let's face the facts of this case, we play a 4231 most of the time and a 352 at certain points. Signing Grealish in our 4231 would mean either Rashford is push as a striker and Grealish plays on the left or Grealish plays a Bernardo Silva role on the right. He would not play in a deep role, and neither would Bruno.

In the 352 (3412) that we play, Grealish would come in as the striker supporting rashford with Bruno in behind. In both instances, Fred and McTominay will still have no rotation options. Fact of the matter is this, considering where we are, it would be a lot wiser to sign a new dm with the intention of him starting ahead of one of the two. We are in 7th place at the moment, we can get better. Being comfortable with Fred and Mctominay alone knowing that there are possibly 3 midfields that are better in the league isn't going to get us anywhere. We need to be more ambitious than that.

We wouldnt do a 4231. It's with the plan to do a 433 long term. Bruno Fernandes can be the deep lying midfielder role if required, but is best as a 10. That's what I mean by being versatile and will give us cover. He's not playing out of position by going deeper, hes very capable of it, it's just he's better as an attacking midfielder but can easily provide a rotation option. And the point is by having Bruno that can do both very effectively, it makes more sense to get Grealish. Can play them together around McTominay/Matic and itll be fine, or rotate in Fred and push one out wide. Or itd provide cover for injuries, form, raise levels with competition, etc. Football is a squad game. Our starting 11 when all are fit is probably 3rd only behind City and Liverpool this year. What's killed us is never being able to rotate. That's why Bruno was vital last summer to compliment Pogba and so we don't rely on one player. Same with a RW. Instead we relied on Rashford, Martial and Pogba and theyve all had big injuries at some point. And now if we only sign a defensive mid, we'll be reliant on Bruno for any midfield creativity. One injury and we're back to no creativity.

The logic of Grealish is we have 4 or 5 players fighting for 3 positions every week, we have rotation for the many games we play, we have some of them versatile so we can still play 4 of them if we want, not 1 player going down would feck us over, etc. Its not overkill in the slightest, its competition for places that would raise everyone's level and give us the starting 11 quality and depth quality we need to reach our goals.

 

[Bebestation]

Grealish is not a typical 8. He is a dribbler, Bruno is a 10. Neither of them play the roles Fred or McTominay do. It would be like putting Ozil in Xabi Alonso's position or playing De Bruyne in a 2 man midfield. Let's face the facts of this case, we play a 4231 most of the time and a 352 at certain points. Signing Grealish in our 4231 would mean either Rashford is push as a striker and Grealish plays on the left or Grealish plays a Bernardo Silva role on the right. He would not play in a deep role, and neither would Bruno.

In the 352 (3412) that we play, Grealish would come in as the striker supporting rashford with Bruno in behind. In both instances, Fred and McTominay will still have no rotation options. Fact of the matter is this, considering where we are, it would be a lot wiser to sign a new dm with the intention of him starting ahead of one of the two. We are in 7th place at the moment, we can get better. Being comfortable with Fred and Mctominay alone knowing that there are possibly 3 midfields that are better in the league isn't going to get us anywhere. We need to be more ambitious than that.

What if we scrap the 4231 & play a 433

1 CDM

With 2 cm that take in turns to take the CAM spots depending on where the space opens?

Grealish - Fred - Fernandes

When Fernandes goes forward grealish takes the CM spot and when Grealish goes forward then Fernandes takes the CM spot?

Say we continue with Martial as a False 9 as well, we will be having a CF who drops deep as well.

It would fit Pogba as well if he stays.

 

[sglowrider]

Pogba isn't staying. We have to face the reality of the situation.

Who is this Pogba fella you speak of?

 

[thepolice123]

Obviously. Was just replying to the off chance that he does stay (or if he comes back this season).

We wouldnt do a 4231. It's with the plan to do a 433 long term. Bruno Fernandes can be the deep lying midfielder role if required, but is best as a 10. That's what I mean by being versatile and will give us cover. He's not playing out of position by going deeper, hes very capable of it, it's just he's better as an attacking midfielder but can easily provide a rotation option. And the point is by having Bruno that can do both very effectively, it makes more sense to get Grealish. Can play them together around McTominay/Matic and itll be fine, or rotate in Fred and push one out wide. Or itd provide cover for injuries, form, raise levels with competition, etc. Football is a squad game. Our starting 11 when all are fit is probably 3rd only behind City and Liverpool this year. What's killed us is never being able to rotate. That's why Bruno was vital last summer to compliment Pogba and so we don't rely on one player. Same with a RW. Instead we relied on Rashford, Martial and Pogba and theyve all had big injuries at some point. And now if we only sign a defensive mid, we'll be reliant on Bruno for any midfield creativity. One injury and we're back to no creativity.

The logic of Grealish is we have 4 or 5 players fighting for 3 positions every week, we have rotation for the many games we play, we have some of them versatile so we can still play 4 of them if we want, not 1 player going down would feck us over, etc. Its not overkill in the slightest, its competition for places that would raise everyone's level and give us the starting 11 quality and depth quality we need to reach our goals.

It sounds good on paper but lacks practicality.

We already had 3 years of trouble with Pogba when we shoehorned him in a deeper role. You find plenty of threads discussing his best position. You are suggesting that we do the same for Bruno.

Grealish is not going come here and be a rotation option. If he goes to Man City, he‘d be direct replacement for Silva. At Arsenal he’d definitely be a replacement for Ozil. If that’s what we are offering, it wouldn’t be very attractive for a player of his calibre. And we aren’t exactly the best club for an attacking player to join these days. Not to mention a 70-80m(?) for him would put a dent in our budget for a RW, and all for a rotation option/competition?

Lastly, I don’t think the double pivot is going away. Ole seems to rely on it for solidity a lot.

 

[MadMike]

What if we scrap the 4231 & play a 433

1 CDM

With 2 cm that take in turns to take the CAM spots depending on where the space opens?

Grealish - Fred - Fernandes

When Fernandes goes forward grealish takes the CM spot and when Grealish goes forward then Fernandes takes the CM spot?

Say we continue with Martial as a False 9 as well, we will be having a CF who drops deep as well.

It would fit Pogba as well if he stays.

Fred is not a #6. His best attributes are pressing to win the ball and transitioning the defence into attack with direct runs. Not sitting and protecting the defence. At #6 you would be limiting him and exposing the defence to counter attacks at the same time. He's a natural #8.

And like I said, such an attack-minded midfield that can't defend properly, requires a team that presses high and wins the ball early maintaining high levels of possession. Something the whole team needs to be able to do. While we seem to be building a team to counter attack.

 

[tjb]

What if we scrap the 4231 & play a 433

1 CDM

With 2 cm that take in turns to take the CAM spots depending on where the space opens?

Grealish - Fred - Fernandes

When Fernandes goes forward grealish takes the CM spot and when Grealish goes forward then Fernandes takes the CM spot?

Say we continue with Martial as a False 9 as well, we will be having a CF who drops deep as well.

It would fit Pogba as well if he stays.

That's the problem though.

a. We have no proof or previous evidence that Ole has or would do this
b. Solksjaer may not be comfortable that tactic. If he isn't comfortable with it, it may mean us not having the framework for this to be successful. City are the only team using this type of 4141 at the moment. Pep is a special manager and this suits the way he would like to play.

It's a lot based on theory, but the reality of the situation is it might very well end up like us having Mata and Kagawa. Even Madrid barely play isco because they are set on playing a 433. Players like James have come and gone due to these theories. Barcelona tried to see if they could fit Coutinho into a role thinking his skillset would translate into success. Barca then signed Dembele and pushed him to the left where he was uncomfortable. Even Griezman is having an average season as he is playing a different role to what made him successful.

This brings me to a bigger point. Why would we sign a player when we do not have the space for him. We would literally be having to use specifications to us them effectively. Unless Rashford moves up top, in the current team, Grealish would be a risk, one we can't afford to make again.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Fred McBrun

 

[tjb]

Bring in Emeliano Buendia when Norwich get relegated. #3 in Key Passes (2.8/game), #4 in Dribbles (3.3/game), and #5 in Assists (7) in spite of playing for the Canaries. Oh, and he's only 23.

This is exactly what we should do. Maybe get Cantwell as a back up since he's cheap.

 

[bosnian_red]

It sounds good on paper but lacks practicality.

We already had 3 years of trouble with Pogba when we shoehorned him in a deeper role. You find plenty of threads discussing his best position. You are suggesting that we do the same for Bruno.

Grealish is not going come here and be a rotation option. If he goes to Man City, he‘d be direct replacement for Silva. At Arsenal he’d definitely be a replacement for Ozil. If that’s what we are offering, it wouldn’t be very attractive for a player of his calibre. And we aren’t exactly the best club for an attacking player to join these days. Not to mention a 70-80m(?) for him would put a dent in our budget for a RW, and all for a rotation option/competition?

Lastly, I don’t think the double pivot is going away. Ole seems to rely on it for solidity a lot.

At Man City he won't start instantly. Fair chance Bernardo Silva becomes that David Silva replacement, plus they have Foden (and never play him). Ozil isnt even a starter for Arsenal at this stage in his career, but we're also talking about Arsenal who are shit these days.

He'd start most games here, even if it's not clearly defined instantly where. Hes at a relegation club right now, hes not a world class player, I dont think hes somebody who is going to demand a starting spot before signing and proving himself. Hed go with the plan of doing it of course, and we'd have him as that, but it wouldnt be an undroppable thing based on pure reputation. Grealish wouldn't be undroppable at any of the main clubs this second, hes not that level of player yet. The hope is he takes his game to the next level in a better side. At United if we sign a RW to start and then Grealish but sold Pogba, we would essentially have Grealish, Bruno and Fred rotate for 2 spots. Or the chance of one of Bruno/Grealish filling in the front 3. That's not overkill depth. That's not stock piling players. That's exactly what top clubs do and need to have. Sir Alex in 07/08 bought Tevez to replace Saha as a starter. Then in 08/09 bought Berbatov even though he probably didn't plan on having him as a starter when all fit and firing. Berba came from a team fighting for UEFA cup qualifying, Grealish would come from a team that might get relegated. And if they do, he certainly won't cost 80m. In no planet is he worth £80m anyway. He's a £50m player in today's market, and thatd probably be enough to get him next summer. Same fee as both Bruno Fernandes and Fred essentially. Also on the 433/4231 note, dont see anything to suggest we are going with 4231 forever. Its very much a blend when we play anyway. Rashford plays as a wide forward, Greenwood the same on the right in the manner of a 433. The shape of the middle triangle is easy enough to change and something Ole did last season to this season (and often during this season). Plus who the manager exactly is is going to be a big if. Not worried for that.

Difference with Pogba was that we forever had issues with depth, cover, lacking a complete starting 11, overreliance on just him, etc. Sign just Sancho and Grealish and we'll have a complete starting 11 and quality depth. That's what's needed to get us up a level. The next step would be to work on our balance in defence (better attacking LB like Lodi or a quality partner to Maguire). Thatd give a quality team that any manager would love to have. If we dont sign a midfielder like Grealish, we're 1 injury away from starting Pereira essentially which is terrible depth.

 

[tjb]

At Man City he won't start instantly. Fair chance Bernardo Silva becomes that David Silva replacement, plus they have Foden (and never play him). Ozil isnt even a starter for Arsenal at this stage in his career, but we're also talking about Arsenal who are shit these days.

He'd start most games here, even if it's not clearly defined instantly where. Hes at a relegation club right now, hes not a world class player, I dont think hes somebody who is going to demand a starting spot before signing and proving himself. Hed go with the plan of doing it of course, and we'd have him as that, but it wouldnt be an undroppable thing based on pure reputation. Grealish wouldn't be undroppable at any of the main clubs this second, hes not that level of player yet. The hope is he takes his game to the next level in a better side. At United if we sign a RW to start and then Grealish but sold Pogba, we would essentially have Grealish, Bruno and Fred rotate for 2 spots. Or the chance of one of Bruno/Grealish filling in the front 3. That's not overkill depth. That's not stock piling players. That's exactly what top clubs do and need to have. Sir Alex in 07/08 bought Tevez to replace Saha as a starter. Then in 08/09 bought Berbatov even though he probably didn't plan on having him as a starter when all fit and firing. Berba came from a team fighting for UEFA cup qualifying, Grealish would come from a team that might get relegated. And if they do, he certainly won't cost 80m. In no planet is he worth £80m anyway. He's a £50m player in today's market, and thatd probably be enough to get him next summer. Same fee as both Bruno Fernandes and Fred essentially. Also on the 433/4231 note, dont see anything to suggest we are going with 4231 forever. Its very much a blend when we play anyway. Rashford plays as a wide forward, Greenwood the same on the right in the manner of a 433. The shape of the middle triangle is easy enough to change and something Ole did last season to this season (and often during this season). Plus who the manager exactly is is going to be a big if. Not worried for that.

Difference with Pogba was that we forever had issues with depth, cover, lacking a complete starting 11, overreliance on just him, etc. Sign just Sancho and Grealish and we'll have a complete starting 11 and quality depth. That's what's needed to get us up a level. The next step would be to work on our balance in defence (better attacking LB like Lodi or a quality partner to Maguire). Thatd give a quality team that any manager would love to have. If we dont sign a midfielder like Grealish, we're 1 injury away from starting Pereira essentially which is terrible depth.

The problem is that you are seeing Grealish as a CM. He's like an iniesta or a David Silva. Those players would be slaughtered as part of a two man midfield or as 8's in a 3. We would be sacrificing too much defensively, and may not even have the physicality needed to dominate midfield as you would imagine. So what we are really talking about here is Grealish and Bruno rotating for one spot which really doesn't make sense considering how many other holes we have in the team. I would understand playing Grealish on the left and pushing Rashford to the right or having him play like Eriksen under Pochettino, but not this. This would be us shelling money for the next shiny new toy. We are rebuilding, we can't afford to waste transfers.

 

[Gasolin]

Why do people think Grealish is a more fitting #10 than Bruno? Especially since Bruno has been playing as #10 for the last couple of seasons to great effect and Grealish has been playing LW. I don’t quite understand the rationale.

It seems to me that it’ll be hard to fit them both in the same team, especially with Rashford occupying the left wing. And yeah ok, Man City often play with two attacking mids (KDB and Silva) ahead of one DM (Fernandinho or Rodri). But they compensate that with a collective very high press to win the ball back early. That’s not an easy thing to emulate.

Edit: Not to mention we seem to want to play counter attacking football. Which is the opposite of pressing high.

Not true for the pressing high, we counter press, so we press actually quite high, whether we play fast or not. We would sit back only against City so far in this season. We have some thoughts to give about the personnel in the midfield but we don't sit deep at all.

 

[Sassy Colin]

We've got Bruno, McTominay and Fred!
Marcus Rashford is Manc born and bred!

 

[Gasolin]

We have a couple of questions to solve now.

1. If Scott and Pogba are back, yes let's assume so since he's back at Carrington, we have now Scott, Pogba, Fred and Matic.

2. Matic is a 6, when he plays, we would have a B2B like Fred or Scott and then a 10 in front of them, could be Bruno, could be Pogba.

3. We know Matic Scott didn't work very well, but Matic Fred works because they become 6 and 8 and not double 8.

4. Fred Scott also works, I think they are splitting the field to make it symmetric when those 2 play, basically reacting to the movements of the RB, LB and the LF, RF.

5. Pogba could either be the 10, or Pogba could play the 8 role but provide additional ability to launch attacks from behind.

Personally, I would be very tempted to try a Pogba, Fred in a dual 8 role, and Bruno in front. And see how that works out in a back 4. That might be the team that could solve a lot of play style issues we have had this season.

If not, I would go something like Matic, Fred, Bruno or Scott, Fred, Bruno or Scott, Fred, Pogba. But this will require training time to make sure players react according to the movement of each others. How long that will take is really the question for us.

 

[tjb]

We have a couple of questions to solve now.

1. If Scott and Pogba are back, yes let's assume so since he's back at Carrington, we have now Scott, Pogba, Fred and Matic.

2. Matic is a 6, when he plays, we would have a B2B like Fred or Scott and then a 10 in front of them, could be Bruno, could be Pogba.

3. We know Matic Scott didn't work very well, but Matic Fred works because they become 6 and 8 and not double 8.

4. Fred Scott also works, I think they are splitting the field to make it symmetric when those 2 play, basically reacting to the movements of the RB, LB and the LF, RF.

5. Pogba could either be the 10, or Pogba could play the 8 role but provide additional ability to launch attacks from behind.

Personally, I would be very tempted to try a Pogba, Fred in a dual 8 role, and Bruno in front. And see how that works out in a back 4. That might be the team that could solve a lot of play style issues we have had this season.

If not, I would go something like Matic, Fred, Bruno or Scott, Fred, Bruno or Scott, Fred, Pogba. But this will require training time to make sure players react according to the movement of each others. How long that will take is really the question for us.

Pogba isn't coming back. This discussion is not just about this season, but the next one too. No need to focus on a guy that won't be here in 6 months. For now, we should persevere with Scott and Fred with Bruno ahead. In the summer we should sign a DM. One that is as multifaceted as keane or ince that can hold or play box to box, this person needs to be able to pass, as we have serious problems bringing the ball from the back at present. McTominay is the future imo. He keeps learning and improving. He also has the ability to make driving runs which makes him more of an asset to the team. He can be a leader here. I would rotate Fred. This is not a bad role for him, he could play more than 50 games a season in that role.

 

[wolvored]

To win the league we would need 2 midfielders better than McTom and Fred. They look half decent because we have been so poor in years. Turn the clock back even 10 years and they wouldnt have got in front of Fletcher, Park, Carrick or Scholes. 20 years ago they wouldnt have got through the doors.

 

[Gasolin]

Pogba isn't coming back. This discussion is not just about this season, but the next one too. No need to focus on a guy that won't be here in 6 months. For now, we should persevere with Scott and Fred with Bruno ahead. In the summer we should sign a DM. One that is as multifaceted as keane or ince that can hold or play box to box, this person needs to be able to pass, as we have serious problems bringing the ball from the back at present. McTominay is the future imo. He keeps learning and improving. He also has the ability to make driving runs which makes him more of an asset to the team. He can be a leader here. I would rotate Fred. This is not a bad role for him, he could play more than 50 games a season in that role.

I wouldn't rule Pogba out, if the guy is back at Carrington, and Real can only offer 50m, don't think Juventus will offer much more, so we are with him. That's my rationale. I know some people disagree, but I think Mino is quite transparent on that one.

 

[wolvored]

They’ll do well in games against lower opposition. However a decent no.10 or false 9 would drag them around the field. I’d definitely get someone like Partey in the summer and I’d probably replace Pogba (if he goes) with Grealish. I think that -


Grealish (Pogba)
Bruno
Partey


is a great balance. That pool of midfielders would easily be a competitive, title challenging midfield.

Thats more realistic. The rest not good enough, maybe Garner will be one day.

 

[Gasolin]

To win the league we would need 2 midfielders better than McTom and Fred. They look half decent because we have been so poor in years. Turn the clock back even 10 years and they wouldnt have got in front of Fletcher, Park, Carrick or Scholes. 20 years ago they wouldnt have got through the doors.

Fred would get ahead of Fletcher or Park, he's that level right now. Ahead of Park technically, and stamina wise, on par. Ahead of Fletcher technically too, he's able to open up the game. Where Fred is really good is that he can counter press pretty high on the field, look at where he gets the ball back for Igdaho against Chelsea, for example. He is a very good guy to have.

Now we just need to create around him. Pogba, Scott and Bruno have to share that responsibility now.

 

[wolvored]

Fred would get ahead of Fletcher or Park, he's that level right now. Ahead of Park technically, and stamina wise, on par. Ahead of Fletcher technically too, he's able to open up the game. Where Fred is really good is that he can counter press pretty high on the field, look at where he gets the ball back for Igdaho against Chelsea, for example. He is a very good guy to have.

Now we just need to create around him. Pogba, Scott and Bruno have to share that responsibility now.

All 4 of those I mentioned had attacking nous, and goals in them. Fred wouldnt get in front of any of them. His passing is so hit and miss as well.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

McSauce isn’t a #6 in many people’s mind, but an #8 like Fred. And certainly not on par with current Fabinho or Fernandinho of seasons past. Hell even Matic is a better #6 than McSauce, he protects the defence much more and is a safer player around our box.

To be fair he's never been tried there but he's definitely got it in his locker, quick, strong, aggressive, he could definitely work there in a high pressure midfield.

 

[Ramshock]

I thought for a moment Bruno McTominay was fired

 

[bosnian_red]

The problem is that you are seeing Grealish as a CM. He's like an iniesta or a David Silva. Those players would be slaughtered as part of a two man midfield or as 8's in a 3. We would be sacrificing too much defensively, and may not even have the physicality needed to dominate midfield as you would imagine. So what we are really talking about here is Grealish and Bruno rotating for one spot which really doesn't make sense considering how many other holes we have in the team. I would understand playing Grealish on the left and pushing Rashford to the right or having him play like Eriksen under Pochettino, but not this. This would be us shelling money for the next shiny new toy. We are rebuilding, we can't afford to waste transfers.

We dont play a 2 man midfield though. We haven't in years. It's a 3 man midfield literally every game. And Bruno can play the #8 role perfectly fine. His goal threat is more worth to push him up, but he can do both to a very high level. Grealish is more a dribbler than a passer but hes also not strictly a #8 or #10, and kind of in between both just like Bruno. Those 2, partnered in front of a holding mid, is more than fine and makes perfect sense IMO. We can do that, we can push one of them around to fill in the attack and rotate Fred or Mctominay in midfield, we wouldnt be reliant on one player for creativity (Bruno Fernandes right now). People think midfielders are way too inflexible these days. They can play different roles, especially when you look at the attributes that Bruno especially or Grealish to a lesser degree have. Not at all a shiny new toy, more a piece that greatly improves the squad and gives us something different that we wont have with Pogba gone. It's just on the manager to make it work, but personnel wise, a midfield group of Bruno, Grealish, Fred, McTominay and Matic is perfectly balanced between work rate, physicality, defensive solidity, creativity, goalscoring, playmaking, dribbling and passing.
Add Sancho to the mix and we'd play:

Rashford Martial sancho
Grealish McTominay Bruno

Grealish Martial/Rash/Green Sancho
Fred McTominay Bruno

Rashford Martial Greenwood
Fred Matic Grealish
​

Etc...Basically a lot of options when injuries come. You need a squad. Our biggest problem is arguably not having quality depth and competition for places.

Look at Liverpool's depth. Fabinho, Henderson, Keita, Chamberlain, Wijnaldum, Milner, Lallana
City: Rodri, Fernandinho, Gundogan, KdB, David Silva, B. Silva, Foden
Chelsea: Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic, RLC, Barkley, Mount, adding Ziyech to probably be #10
Spurs: Ndombele, Lo Celso, Gedson, Winks, Alli, Sissoko, Dier

Our options are: Bruno, Pogba (leaving), Fred, McTominay, Matic, Pereira, Mata.
The latter 2 are trash, while with Pogba here it's perfect but as hes leaving, we need to replace that creativity and quality. Grealish pushes up back up to having quality starting level and depth.

 

[Tony247]

Thatd be the goal with Sancho right! And getting both him and Grealish means we have cover if one of Grealish or Bruno get injured, and can find ways to fit them all in. Those 2 signings would pretty much complete our midfield and attack and will finally look balanced (with us selling the expected players). Then itll be on the manager to get them performing, and if someone is still not good enough then we upgrade. But we'd finally have a squad that is balanced in all departments and has depth. From there we do the bigger signings to upgrade where required.

Absolutely. You are spot on.

 

[Mcking]

All 4 of those I mentioned had attacking nous, and goals in them. Fred wouldnt get in front of any of them. His passing is so hit and miss as well.

Fred's passing is very good, and he doesn't need goals.

 

[thepolice123]

At Man City he won't start instantly. Fair chance Bernardo Silva becomes that David Silva replacement, plus they have Foden (and never play him). Ozil isnt even a starter for Arsenal at this stage in his career, but we're also talking about Arsenal who are shit these days.

He'd start most games here, even if it's not clearly defined instantly where. Hes at a relegation club right now, hes not a world class player, I dont think hes somebody who is going to demand a starting spot before signing and proving himself. Hed go with the plan of doing it of course, and we'd have him as that, but it wouldnt be an undroppable thing based on pure reputation. Grealish wouldn't be undroppable at any of the main clubs this second, hes not that level of player yet. The hope is he takes his game to the next level in a better side. At United if we sign a RW to start and then Grealish but sold Pogba, we would essentially have Grealish, Bruno and Fred rotate for 2 spots. Or the chance of one of Bruno/Grealish filling in the front 3. That's not overkill depth. That's not stock piling players. That's exactly what top clubs do and need to have. Sir Alex in 07/08 bought Tevez to replace Saha as a starter. Then in 08/09 bought Berbatov even though he probably didn't plan on having him as a starter when all fit and firing. Berba came from a team fighting for UEFA cup qualifying, Grealish would come from a team that might get relegated. And if they do, he certainly won't cost 80m. In no planet is he worth £80m anyway. He's a £50m player in today's market, and thatd probably be enough to get him next summer. Same fee as both Bruno Fernandes and Fred essentially. Also on the 433/4231 note, dont see anything to suggest we are going with 4231 forever. Its very much a blend when we play anyway. Rashford plays as a wide forward, Greenwood the same on the right in the manner of a 433. The shape of the middle triangle is easy enough to change and something Ole did last season to this season (and often during this season). Plus who the manager exactly is is going to be a big if. Not worried for that.

Difference with Pogba was that we forever had issues with depth, cover, lacking a complete starting 11, overreliance on just him, etc. Sign just Sancho and Grealish and we'll have a complete starting 11 and quality depth. That's what's needed to get us up a level. The next step would be to work on our balance in defence (better attacking LB like Lodi or a quality partner to Maguire). Thatd give a quality team that any manager would love to have. If we dont sign a midfielder like Grealish, we're 1 injury away from starting Pereira essentially which is terrible depth.

Tevez was a necessity because Saha was extremely injury prone. Berbatov was abit of a luxury signing and hardly a successful one. Grealish would something like a Kagawa.

Ole has persisted with the double pivot midfield and a #10 throughout the season. He has used it both the 4-2-3-1 and 3-5-2 and you don't think it is going to stick around? Fred & McT have been by far our most effective partnership in the big games while Fred & Matic has given us consistency in recent games. Don't see any reason why Ole would break up the partnership and have one of them play as a pure DM so that we can fit Grealish in the team. Neither of them are particular good at that role, and we need Bruno in a deeper position, which frankly I don't think is what we bought him for.

Anyway, we definitely should get another midfielder if Pogba leaves. Ideally someone like Partey would be a better fit for the team than another attacking midfielder. However, if Grealish is available for 40-50m I think it would definitely be a good option to have. My main gripe has been the massive 70-80m fee which I find to be incredibly ridiculous.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Class? Both for his price and his occasional sprinkles of 'class' he has generally been disappointing.

Pogba, by a country mile, is the biggest disappointment in the last 20 years. He flatters to deceive.

Do you actually watch us play football

I swear to god half the people that support man Utd on this site are a bit mental when it comes to their expectations

Like - Pogba dragged us to a second place finish almost single handedly and Bruno despite playing only a few games has been the best player on the pitch pretty much every time and this is with hardly any training with us yet

If you're gonna have a go at the club you can say we are stupidly light up front and Dan James hasn't really done enough this season and we have to either hope he improves or buy better options for that RW slot

 

[wolvored]

Fred's passing is very good, and he doesn't need goals.

So we rely on Bruno for the goals then from midfield? McTom has scored a couple, but in the situation we are in we cant just rely on Rashford and Martial who incidently have never scored 20 premier league goals a season yet. The reason we were successful under Fergie was we used to have goalscorers all over the pitch. We need our midfielders to score quite a few or we never challenge for the title. Fred is not the answer.

 

[bosnian_red]

Tevez was a necessity because Saha was extremely injury prone. Berbatov was abit of a luxury signing and hardly a successful one. Grealish would something like a Kagawa.

Ole has persisted with the double pivot midfield and a #10 throughout the season. He has used it both the 4-2-3-1 and 3-5-2 and you don't think it is going to stick around? Fred & McT have been by far our most effective partnership in the big games while Fred & Matic has given us consistency in recent games. Don't see any reason why Ole would break up the partnership and have one of them play as a pure DM so that we can fit Grealish in the team. Neither of them are particular good at that role, and we need Bruno in a deeper position, which frankly I don't think is what we bought him for.

Anyway, we definitely should get another midfielder if Pogba leaves. Ideally someone like Partey would be a better fit for the team than another attacking midfielder. However, if Grealish is available for 40-50m I think it would definitely be a good option to have. My main gripe has been the massive 70-80m fee which I find to be incredibly ridiculous.

True. He's a 50m player, the hype is a bit out of control for him at the moment but hopefully Villa's financial situation will force them to sell at a reasonable price (and I can't see anyone bidding as high as something like 80m). Especially if they get relegated. 60m max is what he should go for, and that would be pricy IMO.

 

[Bestietom]

Mejbri will be coming into midfield within the next 2 years, so why go for Grealish or Maddison.
A goalscoring RW should be our priority, and then a specialist DM and a top CF.

 

[Shark]

I hope it will be a revelation. Unfortunately, the team is still lacking in the front with Rashford out.

My hope is that Bruno starts chipping in with a few goals and Ighalo, although my expectations aren’t high he should also start chipping in. Martial gets a lot of stick but at the end of the day he’s he only one actually scoring goals at the moment and you wonder where we’d be without his goals at the moment.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Grealish is not going come here and be a rotation option. If he goes to Man City, he‘d be direct replacement for Silva. At Arsenal he’d definitely be a replacement for Ozil. If that’s what we are offering, it wouldn’t be very attractive for a player of his calibre. And we aren’t exactly the best club for an attacking player to join these days. Not to mention a 70-80m(?) for him would put a dent in our budget for a RW, and all for a rotation option/competition?

Teams aren't made of 11 players. We play 50+ matches a seasons. Why did Mahrez go to be a rotation option? Why did Bernardo? Ndombele? Lo Celso? Why does anyone sign for any of the top clubs with other good players?

Direct replacement for David Silva or Ozil? Both of which are only rotation options? Neither of them even play regularly for City or Arsenal. They are only the 13th and 12th most played players at their clubs. They've both played less than Andreas Pereira. They've both played about the same as Jesse Lingard. Dan James has played 2500 minutes while being nowhere near good enough to play that often. Pogba has played 600 minutes and is leaving. That is over 6500 minutes that can be replaced here compared to the 1600 minutes to replace David Silva or Ozil. So why would he go to City to be a rotation option?