Bundesliga 2018/19

hasanejaz88

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If he is fit he for sure is the best defender Germany has - and one of the top 5 defenders in the world. The ball he plays from the back are real great.
True, agree he is still a top class defender, when fit. He has lost a lot physically so you can see Kovac not applying an extremely high line with him and Hummels. Interesting to see what Loew goes for v France and Peru in the upcoming matches.

I was hoping though to see Sule get more starts in important matches, if Boateng and Hummels are fit (big IF), then they will definitely start in those matches.
 

Blackwidow

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True, agree he is still a top class defender, when fit. He has lost a lot physically so you can see Kovac not applying an extremely high line with him and Hummels. Interesting to see what Loew goes for v France and Peru in the upcoming matches.

I was hoping though to see Sule get more starts in important matches, if Boateng and Hummels are fit (big IF), then they will definitely start in those matches.
I know that Löw will not do it - but there was a match against Hannover last season in which Süle played the 6 and he was really great in that. Would be great cover for Kroos and maybe allow to play Müller centrally on an 8 with Kroos and behind the striker. Löw should have seen enough matches the recent 2 or 3 weeks with Müller on the right 8 and some assists and goals of him in that position... (now that Özil is gone...). Today again a preassist, an assist and a goal.
 
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hasanejaz88

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I know that Löw will not do it - but there was a match against Hannover last season in which Süle played the 6 and he was really great in that. Would be great cover for Kroos and maybe allow to play Müller centrally on an 8 with Kroos and behind the striker. Löw should have seen enough matches the recent 2 or 3 weeks with Müller on the right 8 and a some assists and goals of him in that position... (now that Özil is gone...)
Yea Muller's form has been rediscovered since he has moved to a central role behind Lewandowski but competition Bayern play against vs what Germany will is very different. I don't think Sule can survive under the pressure of France's midfield. If Sule and Muller play in midfield then it would put all the pressure off play making on Kroos. If France double team Kroos with pressure, then there isn't anyone else who can control possession, Bayern don't face that same pressure in the BL because teams tend to sit off.

Goretzka with Kroos and Muller, like today, may work better and Germany can try to sit deeper and counter forward. Goretzka is better on the back than Sule but can also go forward and score.

Btw if you want to play a CB as a DM, why not Hummels? I remember the U-21 final in 2009 he played there after not starting the entire tournament (Boateng and Howedes were the starting CBs) and he was amazing, also played there in his first season at Dortmund sometimes. It also makes sense given his ability to pass the ball and defend.
 

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Playing a CB as DM rarely works out. A CB who is great on the ball is mediocre on the ball compared to most midfielders.
 

Blackwidow

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Yea Muller's form has been rediscovered since he has moved to a central role behind Lewandowski but competition Bayern play against vs what Germany will is very different. I don't think Sule can survive under the pressure of France's midfield. If Sule and Muller play in midfield then it would put all the pressure off play making on Kroos. If France double team Kroos with pressure, then there isn't anyone else who can control possession, Bayern don't face that same pressure in the BL because teams tend to sit off.

Goretzka with Kroos and Muller, like today, may work better and Germany can try to sit deeper and counter forward. Goretzka is better on the back than Sule but can also go forward and score.

Btw if you want to play a CB as a DM, why not Hummels? I remember the U-21 final in 2009 he played there after not starting the entire tournament (Boateng and Howedes were the starting CBs) and he was amazing, also played there in his first season at Dortmund sometimes. It also makes sense given his ability to pass the ball and defend.
Goretzka is not a passer either. Takes part less on the passing at Bayern until now than Müller does. And does not work more defensively. That is not a solution either. Would put Kroos far more in jeopardy than what I proposed. Süle in that match I talked about had 98 passes Thiago 103)
 

strongwalker

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They sometimes get criticized for their defending but, the ball playing ability of Hummels and Boateng provides them so much.
Hummels toda again with a hail mary which could have been a pen if the ref has a different angle. That guy is an accident waiting to happen and if such a thing is even possible, he gets slower every year.
 

hasanejaz88

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Hummels toda again with a hail mary which could have been a pen if the ref has a different angle. That guy is an accident waiting to happen and if such a thing is even possible, he gets slower every year.
It was a great tackle, if the referee gave it it would've been reversed through VAR. Can't criticize him for a great tackle (PS: don't bring the Maldini quote).

Goretzka is not a passer either. Takes part less on the passing at Bayern until now than Müller does. And does not work more defensively. That is not a solution either. Would put Kroos far more in jeopardy than what I proposed. Süle in that match I talked about had 98 passes Thiago 103)
Do you think Sule would be able to hold possession better under pressure or Sule? I certainly think Goretzka would. Again, Bayern play under hardly any pressing from opposition in the BL so it easy for their midfielders to retain possession, I don't think the same will be the case when we play France. France may press Sule and force him into errors, the only way I could see it working is if Germany adopt a counter-attacking playing style whereby they are the ones sitting deep.
 

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Hummels is still a very good defender, but not what he once was. He was at the top end from 2012-2014 and looked dead cert to become the next great German Libero. What happened along the way that his peak was in his early 20s? He didn't suffer multiple heavy injuries like Boa...
 

Blackwidow

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Hummels is still a very good defender, but not what he once was. He was at the top end from 2012-2014 and looked dead cert to become the next great German Libero. What happened along the way that his peak was in his early 20s? He didn't suffer multiple heavy injuries like Boa...
His long passes seldom reach their recipient. And he has a lot headers after set-pieces but rarely scores. And he always had some shaky scenes in defense - even during that time. But during the time in Dortmund he usually scored a goal then and nobody cared...

The third goal today was a beauty in the build up

 

hasanejaz88

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Hummels is still a very good defender, but not what he once was. He was at the top end from 2012-2014 and looked dead cert to become the next great German Libero. What happened along the way that his peak was in his early 20s? He didn't suffer multiple heavy injuries like Boa...
Well, he won the World Cup, playing a major role in the win and has done well for Bayern. It's just the UCL which has eluded him and you can't really blame him because Bayern, in all the years he has been there, only once where they knocked out by a team did not eventually win the tournament. Bayern have been a bit unlucky in a couple of those losses, most notably last year, so I don't think he has been particularly poor. I think it's just the lack of success at the international/intercontinental level has made it seem Boateng and Hummels haven't reached a very high peak.

Ofcourse, injuries have played a role in effecting them physically but I still think they are amongst the top defenders today, on par with Godin, Ramos, Bonnuci etc.
 

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Well, he won the World Cup, playing a major role in the win and has done well for Bayern. It's just the UCL which has eluded him and you can't really blame him because Bayern, in all the years he has been there, only once where they knocked out by a team did not eventually win the tournament. Bayern have been a bit unlucky in a couple of those losses, most notably last year, so I don't think he has been particularly poor. I think it's just the lack of success at the international/intercontinental level has made it seem Boateng and Hummels haven't reached a very high peak.

Ofcourse, injuries have played a role in effecting them physically but I still think they are amongst the top defenders today, on par with Godin, Ramos, Bonnuci etc.
No I don't judge Hummels by his title haul in the last few years. Just in terms of pure defending, I think he has regressed a bit and I don't know why. He looks weaker in duels with very physical forwards and he looks to lack that last bit of perfect concentration. Hummels under Klopp had more defending to do and excelled at it, especially when defending in the box. He was also simply majestic in the 2014 World Cup and the difference to his 2018 performance was stark, even if the perception may be skewed for some people because he scored the header vs France and he didn't score the one vs South Korea.

It's weird because in some ways he is the perfect CB for a possession side, but something doesn't add up when he is in a system which is not 100% tactically astute. Maybe we would have seen peak Hummels under Pep? He went to Bayern at the wrong time, when their pressing got worse with Carlo.
 

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No I don't judge Hummels by his title haul in the last few years. Just in terms of pure defending, I think he has regressed a bit and I don't know why. He looks weaker in duels with very physical forwards and he looks to lack that last bit of perfect concentration. Hummels under Klopp had more defending to do and excelled at it, especially when defending in the box. He was also simply majestic in the 2014 World Cup and the difference to his 2018 performance was stark, even if the perception may be skewed for some people because he scored the header vs France and he didn't score the one vs South Korea.

It's weird because in some ways he is the perfect CB for a possession side, but something doesn't add up when he is in a system which is not 100% tactically astute. Maybe we would have seen peak Hummels under Pep? He went to Bayern at the wrong time, when their pressing got worse with Carlo.
Hummels was a beast in all duels vs Real for example and one of the main reasons that CR was invisible in the last two games against us.
If anything Hummels had to compensate A LOT for Boateng who has been very inconsistent the last two years and for two FBs which are good going forward but aren't always solid defensively.

Yes i do. The art of defending is to play in a way you don't *need* that kind of tackle.
Ya, that's a nice statement on paper but not always possible, not to mention in that scene Hummels tackles the player because noone else did stop him before. That's a thing a lot of people always ignore, Hummels is the kind of defender who fixes many defensive errors by his team mates because he doesn't shy away from such situations. It is sometimes the opposite with Boateng who is too cautious to commit (see the goal of Hoffenheim last week).
Due to his Hummels sometimes looks bad because he puts himself in difficult situations but him and Süle are our only "no nonsense"-defenders and Hummels has shown in his whole career that he is someone who makes his follow defenders better, it's not like he has been surrounded by defensive giants hin his career or played in teams that were mainly about defending.
 

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Hummels was a beast in all duels vs Real for example and one of the main reasons that CR was invisible in the last two games against us.
If anything Hummels had to compensate A LOT for Boateng who has been very inconsistent the last two years and for two FBs which are good going forward but aren't always solid defensively.
Yeah true that, I remember being impressed by him in those clashes. Ronaldo was in ridiculous form before that, scoring in every CL game plus something like 3 hattricks in the league after the turn of the year.

I generally think Hummels has been the better player than Boateng over the course of their careers. He has the odd brainfart, but is more stable in his performances and his build up play is superior. Boateng plays the Hollywood balls nicely, but his passes on the ground are somewhat behind what Hummels does in every game.

Alaba and Kimmich are not perfect defensively, but at Dortmund he played next to Schmelzer, Subotic and Piszczek. Not exactly world class defenders that lot. I think it really comes down to tactics, put him into Pep's City and after some intense Pep coaching drills, people would talk about him as the best CB in the PL.
 

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Schalke, Leverkusen and Stuttgart all with 0 points after 2 games, not exactly what people had expected of them.

Hertha with 9 players on the pitch who are 23 or younger...that's much more fun to watch than the squads they had in previous years.
 

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Schalke have not looked great so far..
They did not look any good last year except in defense...

Next week no. 2 plays against no. 3 - Hertha against Wolfsburg.

Schalke plays in Gladbach the next match and against Bayern the week after...

 
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Inigo

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Schalke, Leverkusen and Stuttgart all with 0 points after 2 games, not exactly what people had expected of them.

Hertha with 9 players on the pitch who are 23 or younger...that's much more fun to watch than the squads they had in previous years.
9 at the same time, 10 in total. Haven't been this excited about a Hertha side since the Favre days.
 

hasanejaz88

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They did not look any good last year except in defense...

Next week no. 2 plays against no. 3 - Hertha against Wolfsburg.

Schalke plays in Gladbach the next match and against Bayern the week after...

Surprised to see Leverkusen lose both matches but Schalke is not surprising at all. They are horribly run, after losing two important players they have done sod all to improve their squad (Uth is the only decent singing). Sane in defense is also calamitous, don't know why anyone would've thought of buying him.

Leverkusen will hopefully improve but don't think the same will happen for Schalke.
 

Balu

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Such a typical start to a Bundesliga season. Out of the top 7 from last season, 4 teams are in the bottom 5 and all four together have a single point after 2 games. Not one of them has actually strengthened the team and attempts to build on the last season. There's no longterm strategy anywhere to be seen, no creativity when it comes to coaching. It's just insane how badly run most Bundesliga clubs are at the moment. It's all reactive shortterm decisions without any real risks when it comes to investment. Absolutely shocking what has happened since 2013 and how the league overall wasted the potential created around the Bundesliga hype when Bayern and Dortmund reached the CL final. Back then the league overall surpassed La Liga and Serie A in terms of overall revenue, so the smaller clubs weren't actually poor (unless you compare them to English clubs of course). But a lack of money just isn't a good excuse for the shitshow we've seen from clubs like Leverkusen or Schalke and many others.
 

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RBL is second in possession which is the worst thing possible for them. They do not know what to do when they have the ball. They are only effective when countering.
 

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Second match, second red for Schalke... and for my FF team. Fecking cnuts
 

Don Alfredo

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Such a typical start to a Bundesliga season. Out of the top 7 from last season, 4 teams are in the bottom 5 and all four together have a single point after 2 games. Not one of them has actually strengthened the team and attempts to build on the last season. There's no longterm strategy anywhere to be seen, no creativity when it comes to coaching. It's just insane how badly run most Bundesliga clubs are at the moment. It's all reactive shortterm decisions without any real risks when it comes to investment. Absolutely shocking what has happened since 2013 and how the league overall wasted the potential created around the Bundesliga hype when Bayern and Dortmund reached the CL final. Back then the league overall surpassed La Liga and Serie A in terms of overall revenue, so the smaller clubs weren't actually poor (unless you compare them to English clubs of course). But a lack of money just isn't a good excuse for the shitshow we've seen from clubs like Leverkusen or Schalke and many others.
I understand your disappointment, but can't follow your analysis. RBL actually has a very good long term strategy, but a shit short term future. Shit transfer window, Rangnick in 2 jobs, long Europa League season ahead with a small squad. In the long term they get Nagelsmann, who is literally turning shit into gold. He makes Adam Szalai look like prime Miro Klose. They will also make a shit tonne of money when they inevitably cash in on their young stars like Werner, Upamecano etc.

Leverkusen is pretty much the same, their short term game is shit because Herrlich can't seem to get it right and Dragovic is still stinking out the place in central defense. Besides that, they managed to sign their 4 biggest talents on long term contracts (Brandt, Tah, Bailey, Havertz) and will also make a shit tonne of money on them. Except if Bayern agrees a huge free agent contract 2 years in advance to sign them on a free:p

Leverkusen is still one of the best scouting clubs in Europe, especially for South America. They managed to sign Paulinho early, who was chased by the likes of City, Bayern, Juve, PSG, Benfica, Dortmund etc.

Bundesliga should be more open for coaches from other countries. And I don't mean the usual Switzerland, Austria and Netherlands, I am talking countries like France, Spain, Argentina etc.
 

Balu

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I understand your disappointment, but can't follow your analysis. RBL actually has a very good long term strategy, but a shit short term future. Shit transfer window, Rangnick in 2 jobs, long Europa League season ahead with a small squad. In the long term they get Nagelsmann, who is literally turning shit into gold. He makes Adam Szalai look like prime Miro Klose. They will also make a shit tonne of money when they inevitably cash in on their young stars like Werner, Upamecano etc.
I agree with RBL's long term strategy and getting Nagelsmann was a brilliant move. But wasting a full year in which they take part in the CL by standing still / moving backwards is a complete disaster. If they got it right for this season, they might have had a chance to keep their young stars.

Leverkusen is pretty much the same, their short term game is shit because Herrlich can't seem to get it right and Dragovic is still stinking out the place in central defense. Besides that, they managed to sign their 4 biggest talents on long term contracts (Brandt, Tah, Bailey, Havertz) and will also make a shit tonne of money on them. Except if Bayern agrees a huge free agent contract 2 years in advance to sign them on a free:p
I disagree here. If Herrlich can't get it right, they're where they've been for ages now. Leverkusen didn't strengthen the team. If they drop out of the CL places, they'll lose at least some of their players, lose the CL money for next season, have to rebuild and are again worse off, because they can't attract similar quality.

In both cases there's the "once they sell their young talents, they'll make a shitload of money" story in it. That's not the way to establish yourself close to the top of the league. You need to strengthen your team every year to stay attractive for the better players in your team as well. Which Bundesliga club actually did that this summer?

And yeah, I'm sure plenty will blame Bayern again in the end instead of questioning their own business model. It has become such a lazy excuse.
 

Balu

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Bundesliga should be more open for coaches from other countries. And I don't mean the usual Switzerland, Austria and Netherlands, I am talking countries like France, Spain, Argentina etc.
Fully agree with this, but unless German clubs start using English as their main language, we're at a massive disadvantage when it comes to signing foreign coaches from these countries and there's no easy way around it. And if foreign players and coaches don't learn German, they most likely won't stick around longterm anyway.
 
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hasanejaz88

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Such a typical start to a Bundesliga season. Out of the top 7 from last season, 4 teams are in the bottom 5 and all four together have a single point after 2 games. Not one of them has actually strengthened the team and attempts to build on the last season. There's no longterm strategy anywhere to be seen, no creativity when it comes to coaching. It's just insane how badly run most Bundesliga clubs are at the moment. It's all reactive shortterm decisions without any real risks when it comes to investment. Absolutely shocking what has happened since 2013 and how the league overall wasted the potential created around the Bundesliga hype when Bayern and Dortmund reached the CL final. Back then the league overall surpassed La Liga and Serie A in terms of overall revenue, so the smaller clubs weren't actually poor (unless you compare them to English clubs of course). But a lack of money just isn't a good excuse for the shitshow we've seen from clubs like Leverkusen or Schalke and many others.
Yea, feel a similar sense of disappointment looking at Dortmund, Leverkusen, Leipzig and Schalke. There is just zero quality investment coming into the league from foreign lands. Either average players are being picked up or the league is exchanging players amongst each other, I can't remember a single transfer this season that has gotten me excited (maybe only Goretzka to Bayern).

And I don't know how much to blame he boards of these clubs, because it must be very difficult to build teams over the long term when you see them being constantly broken apart. You need to be near perfect in your recruitment to be able consistently play a high level when your best players are being taken away from you. Bremen were the today's Dortmund of the 00's, playing exciting football and challenging Bayern, but even they ran out of luck when they mistakenly replaced Ozil with Arnautovic, though they had successfully replaced many of their great players before that (Klose for Ailton, Diego for Micoud). We are seeing the same now for clubs like Dortmund, who after years of successful recruitment have made some dud signings and at now at risk of seeing themselves fall further behind Bayern, who always have large sums of cash to support signing players when needed.

Leverkusen need to get themselves back on track, I'm not convinced of Herrlich as a coach and it would be a travesty if he ends up a crap coach and is wasted on this talented group of youngsters.
 

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I agree with RBL's long term strategy and getting Nagelsmann was a brilliant move. But wasting a full year in which they take part in the CL by standing still / moving backwards is a complete disaster. If they got it right for this season, they might have had a chance to keep their young stars.


I disagree here. If Herrlich can't get it right, they're where they've been for ages now. Leverkusen didn't strengthen the team. If they drop out of the CL places, they'll lose at least some of their players, lose the CL money for next season, have to rebuild and are again worse off, because they can't attract similar quality.

In both cases there's the "once they sell their young talents, they'll make a shitload of money" story in it. That's not the way to establish yourself close to the top of the league. You need to strengthen your team every year to stay attractive for the better players in your team as well. Which Bundesliga club actually did that this summer?

And yeah, I'm sure plenty will blame Bayern again in the end instead of questioning their own business model. It has become such a lazy excuse.
They waste a year and they can afford that. It is not like their players are 29 and soon to be over the hill. Werner already said he will stay beyond 2019 because he wants to work with Nagelsmann. The other guys like Upamecano are so young that they can stay 3 more years and move when they are 22.

This year is a write off for RBL anyway. EL fecks up your League form if you don't have a huge squad, plus there is absolutely nothing to gain for RBL in EL. They won't win it, nobody will watch their matches against some Eastern European side and they won't get a bigger profile. They should have brought in someone else instead of Rangnick, but it is better for them if they finish 8th instead of 5th. They can afford going without that UEFA money, which other sides can't do. Big advantage for them in the long term. Rather write off 1 year to get Nagelsmann instead of looking for instant success and get Tedesco/Herrlich/Hasenhuttl level.

Leverkusen will always stay the quintessential 4th place side and it is good for them if they can sell their stars for huge money and bring in some new talents. They have natural boundaries on how big they can get. Their potential is far below that of Dortmund and even they can't pay top dollar wages or sign big name players like Morata.

I won't say Bayern buys the league and all that crap, I just say it is better for the league if Bayern pays huge sums to the other clubs so they can reinvest it. Bayern is blocking investment in the league by saving all that money on their Festgeldkonto and signing Bundesliga stars for free. Just an economic argument, not a moral one. PSG gave Monaco 180m and they invested it in hundreds of new players, many of them from the French youth academies. Those clubs also have more money to spend etc etc
 

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The other part of the story is that your club have signed ten goalkeepers in the last five seasons.
And? Still don't understand the point.

I could explain all transfers and between Wiese and Pavlenka we surely had a "goalkeeper problem".
Thank god this is over.
 

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I don't think it's fair to criticise Leverkusen. They kept their squad together despite missing the CL, they signed a supposedly great talent in Paulinho and they are trying to play positive football. It's just strange that they looked to be on a good path last season and now, despite basically net strenghening their squad things go up in flames after just two matches, with their reserve keeper questioning the team's mentality in the press.

Schalke's woes aren't exactly a surprise to me. They had a midtable squad last season, they played like a midtable team last season and now they lost their two most talented players for free and had to spend over €35m to replace the (Serdar, Rudy, Mascarell), money which they only could raise by selling Kehrer. Last season they probably would've gotten 4-6 points out of their opening fixtures, this season they get unlucky in key moments instead and their overperforming players like Caligiuri, Naldo and Burgstaller have returned to their real level.

Leipzig had to make the choice of more or less sacrificing this season versus missing out on Nagelsmann. Chances are we would be giving them shit either way. At least they were ruthless with Hasenhüttl who was getting them nowhere tactically.

I'm not sure that foreign coaches are the answer. English mid and bottom table teams are more than happy to hire foreigners, yet I don't think their football is anything special in most cases. Germany also keeps producing a lot of promising or decent coaches, Klopp is one of the superstar coaches, Tuchel and Nagelsmann are among the first I would name when looking for a natural Guardiola successor, Kohfeldt isnt afraid to play attacking football on a midtable budget and Favre, while not showing it at Dortmund thus far, is also someone who stands for modern football. I think the problem is more that there is a vacuum when it comes to the generation of German coaches who are now in their 50s or 60s.
 
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Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87

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Very bad start for Schalke, Leverkusen and Leipzig. Weren't Bayer tipped to have a good season?
 

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Ya, that's a nice statement on paper but not always possible, not to mention in that scene Hummels tackles the player because noone else did stop him before.
Quite often, he relies on his tackles to recover from a situation caused by his own positioning or from him misjudging the situation before, though that may be a calculated risk, maybe that's the price to pay when playing with two fullbacks who are more wingers and a midfield less defensive-minded than the original van Bommel/Martinez/Schweisteiger-time, but i see that from him in the Nationalmannschaft as well.
Those hail-Marys are all fine if they work, they sometimes are needed of course, and its an asset if a CB can do them. But as it is a matter of milliseconds whether it is a tackle or a foul, a matter of speed and timing and those don't tend to improve once a player hits 30, so with Süle improving at his current rate, who also has the advantage of being about twice as fast, and Pavard on the way in, i doubt he can rely upon being first team choice very much longer. His playmaking skills are all very well but were more important in a Pep-like system maybe, or in Klopps counterpressing lightning fast switch-to attack-all-men-forward style.
It isn't as if Bayern was short on players being able to play good wide passes.
That's a thing a lot of people always ignore, Hummels is the kind of defender who fixes many defensive errors by his team mates because he doesn't shy away from such situations. It is sometimes the opposite with Boateng who is too cautious to commit (see the goal of Hoffenheim last week).
Due to his Hummels sometimes looks bad because he puts himself in difficult situations but him and Süle are our only "no nonsense"-defenders and Hummels has shown in his whole career that he is someone who makes his follow defenders better, it's not like he has been surrounded by defensive giants hin his career or played in teams that were mainly about defending.
Those two statements are interesting because his tendency to "fix other defenders errors" is one of the qualms i have about him. What i often saw him doing was, for me, an expression of mistrust in his fellow teammates abilites, that "ah stay away, i'll do it myself proper" attitude. That's the opposite of "making fellow teammembers better". See his body language at several post-Klopp BVB matches. Win the ball, run forward 20m, play a genius pass your teammate is too stupid to anticipate, counterattack follows, Mr. Hummels can't be bothered to even backtrack.
He's done it less in his Bayern time, maybe he matured or he is happier with the quality of his sidekicks, but that is a sort of attitude i have hated all my life in a player.