Bundesliga 2018/19

Don Alfredo

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strongwalker said:
i agree. It is imo a misconception that getting rid of 50+1 will suddenly make investors with infinite pockets appear who's deepest desire is to sink a couple of hundred Mios to make SV Darmstadt 98 great again. The investors who mean business will flock to the already big names, see Bayerns "super partners" Adidas, Audi, etc. The EPL is no good example either, the chances of any club to break the big 6 phalanx is dimmer than Nürnberg making a QL qualifier spot.
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The way you talk about the big 6 in England now is how people talked for years about the big4. Look at how Wolves is building a team, how Leicester could keep hold of Maguire and how clubs like Fulham manage to attract talent like Seri, who was a target for Dortmund (allegedly).

Chelsea broke the economic superiority of Man Utd and City broke up the dominance of the big 4. They also brought a number of great players and coaches into the country. A huge benefit for the quality of the league and the excitement.
 

HerrLeinad

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Don Alfredo said:
The way you talk about the big 6 in England now is how people talked for years about the big4. Look at how Wolves is building a team, how Leicester could keep hold of Maguire and how clubs like Fulham manage to attract talent like Seri, who was a target for Dortmund (allegedly).

Chelsea broke the economic superiority of Man Utd and City broke up the dominance of the big 4. They also brought a number of great players and coaches into the country. A huge benefit for the quality of the league and the excitement.
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But that's all due to the english TV-money. That's the reason why investors decided to pick english clubs in the first place but there simply isn't and won't be the same money in germany. The german TV market is extremely conservative, it took a long time for pay TV to take off at all and there is still a whole generation that takes free football on public TV for granted.
 
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do.ob

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Don Alfredo said:
The way you talk about the big 6 in England now is how people talked for years about the big4. Look at how Wolves is building a team, how Leicester could keep hold of Maguire and how clubs like Fulham manage to attract talent like Seri, who was a target for Dortmund (allegedly).

Chelsea broke the economic superiority of Man Utd and City broke up the dominance of the big 4. They also brought a number of great players and coaches into the country. A huge benefit for the quality of the league and the excitement.
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What Russian billionaire would buy a German club for political protection from Putin? Why hasn't he bought a club in England/Spain/France/Italy already?
What Emirate would be looking to acquire a German club?
Even if they do find such people or states, would it be worth it in the end to sell your soul to them? For a couple of points in the UEFA rankings, maybe a few titles for a team that plays in front of 30k? If you want such a competition why not watch the PL to begin with?

What about the risk of spawning another 5 Leverkusens who soak up CL money, but will forever be a second tier?
 
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Don Alfredo

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do.ob said:
What Russian billionaire would buy a German club for political protection from Putin? Why hasn't he bought a club in England/Spain/France/Italy already?
What Emirate would be looking to acquire a German club?
Even if they do find such people or states, would it be worth it in the end to sell your soul to them? For a couple of points in the UEFA rankings, maybe a few titles for a team that plays in front of 30k? If you want such a competition why not watch the PL to begin with?

What about the risk of spawning another 5 Leverkusens who soak up CL money, but will forever be a second tier?
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I am not the one who is constantly moaning about the quality of the league.

I am sick of the people whining all the time about players / managers leaving, bad international results etc. You won't see Guardiola vs Klopp vs Pocchettino vs Sarri in Bundesliga anytime near in the future if you don't want foreign money in the league.

Not that I am an advocate of that, I just want to say where the hypocrisy lies. Every second post is about how the league is shit etc., yet no one wants anything to change.

Frankly I don't care if there are investors in Bundesliga or not, I will follow the league regardless, just as I follow PL.

Also you are hugely downplaying the impact it would have. Leipzig sold their soul and they fill a stadium with 50k viewers. "A couple of points in UEFA Rankings", "a few titles", look how everyone around the world is raving about Guardiola's City and Klopp's Liverpool. I bet you many people around the world like them because of their football and become fans of the club.

The point about Leverkusen is right and I despise Leipzig for having no ambition besides of being Leverkusen Mk2.
 

do.ob

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Don Alfredo said:
I am not the one who is constantly moaning about the quality of the league.

I am sick of the people whining all the time about players / managers leaving, bad international results etc. You won't see Guardiola vs Klopp vs Pocchettino vs Sarri in Bundesliga anytime near in the future if you don't want foreign money in the league.

Not that I am an advocate of that, I just want to say where the hypocrisy lies. Every second post is about how the league is shit etc., yet no one wants anything to change.

Frankly I don't care if there are investors in Bundesliga or not, I will follow the league regardless, just as I follow PL.

Also you are hugely downplaying the impact it would have. Leipzig sold their soul and they fill a stadium with 50k viewers. "A couple of points in UEFA Rankings", "a few titles", look how everyone around the world is raving about Guardiola's City and Klopp's Liverpool. I bet you many people around the world like them because of their football and become fans of the club.

The point about Leverkusen is right and I despise Leipzig for having no ambition besides of being Leverkusen Mk2.
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Surely you can criticise things without having to be against 50+1? As I already said, it's neither the only way of improvement nor is it some magic trick that suddenly makes people or countries line up to burn billions. Bundesliga with its influential fans who are very vocal about their hostility these things and Bundesliga's relatively little TV money offer almost no incentives for these investments (unlike England!). All that talk about 50+1 and seeing Klopp vs Guardiola (who btw faced each other in Bundesliga just a couple of seasons ago) is wishful thinking rather than presenting anything close to a solution.

RB picked a region that's been starved of 1st division football for decades. They can't even have 50k viewers, because their stadium only olds like 42k and they've sold it out a staggering four times last Bundesliga season, they couldn't even fill it for their return leg against Napoli, or half of it a round later against Zenit, against Marseille, too, 20% of the seats remained empty.
 

Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87

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do.ob said:

Now officially confirmed, including some some "hip" and silly announcement video. According to the reliable parts of German media he's signed via a loan that includes a€25m (non obligatory) buy option.

I guess Alcacer and Rudy (to Schalke) concludes the transfer business of Germany's top clubs aside from Leipzig who are supposedly still trying to sign Lookman and a CM.
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Having a proper CF should help Dortmund to compete with Bayern. He was quite a good striker at Valencia.
 

strongwalker

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Don Alfredo said:
I am not the one who is constantly moaning about the quality of the league.

I am sick of the people whining all the time about players / managers leaving, bad international results etc. You won't see Guardiola vs Klopp vs Pocchettino vs Sarri in Bundesliga anytime near in the future if you don't want foreign money in the league.
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Waitwhat?? 50+1 is a rule against "foreign money in the league"? news to me.
 

strongwalker

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In order to attract investors, even foreign ones, there must be worldwide exposition and interest. Here, the PL has a 20 year headstart and a language advantage. simply dropping 50+1 and hope for a miracle will never cut it, and even the DfB is not so stupid to believe that.
Even receiving outside money is no guarantee, the examples have been mentioned - RB, Wolfsburg, Leverkusen. Wolfsburg also is an example of the negative effect that business model has - VW cut their funds in the wake of Dieselgate, and see what happens. 1860 munich is another example, they have a jordanian sugar daddy (3rd string), found a creative way to pass 50+1, and successfully found a way to gget themself dropped two divisions....
 

strongwalker

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Blackwidow said:
Ownership is the wrong word. But until 2017 there still were the blue neighbours in the Arena every fortnight...
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It is owned by a separate company, Allianz Arena Stadion GmbH, which used to be co-owned 50:50 by the blue vermin, which was part of the deal with Munichs city council (the city council paid ~210Mio for infrastructure).
In 2006, 1860 couldn't pay the rent any more. (This rent was agreed upon both parties with the intention of it being used to pay off the loan), so they sold their share to FCB for 11 Mio and in 2007 they also gave back their option for a buy-back. Still they rented the Arena for matches and as long as that was the case, there was an agreement to keep the design neutral. This ended when '60 were relegated to 4th div and decided to not use the Arena any more.
 

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Blackwidow said:
Ownership is the wrong word. But until 2017 there still were the blue neighbours in the Arena every fortnight...
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You are right. Forgot about it. If Munich 1860 were promoted this season to the 2nd Bundesliga would they play again at Allianz Arena again though?
 

Nostradamus

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Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 said:
You are right. Forgot about it. If Munich 1860 were promoted this season to the 2nd Bundesliga would they play again at Allianz Arena again though?
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No, that chapter is closed. They have to find another solution, if promoted to 2nd BL, as their actual Grünwalder Stadium cannot be used there.
 

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Dortmund playing as you would expect this line up to play. Pretty solid at the back and looking to pounce on mistakes. Not exactly entertaining football, but Reus was very unfortunate not to score at least once towards the end of the first half.

A bit disappointing to see them play like that when Favre has players like Weigl, Götze, Kagawa and Sancho at his disposal.
 

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do.ob said:
Dortmund playing as you would expect this line up to play. Pretty solid at the back and looking to pounce on mistakes. Not exactly entertaining football, but Reus was very unfortunate not to score at least once towards the end of the first half.

A bit disappointing to see them play like that when Favre has players like Weigl, Götze, Kagawa and Sancho at his disposal.
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It's like watching Schalke if they had Reus. :lol:
 

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Absolutely shit match. Really disappointing to see how Favre is setting up Dortmund with a midfield three of Delaney-Witsel-Dahoud, neither of whom are great at playing as an attacking midfielder. Add to that their wing backs are complete shit as well, it basically means there is no creativity besides the front three of Reus-Wolf/Pulisic-Phillpp. Phillp is more of a goalscorer than goal creator, same goes for Reus.

It's absolutely necessary that Gotze or Kagawa play alongside two of Delaney-Witsel-Dahoud. I can understand Delaney playing since he's a pure DM and has helped them defensively, Witsel would most likely play alongside him as Dahoud is weaker defensively. But those three playing together currently means there is no one in the side to create and their offense can easily be stifled through high pressing. There is a large gap between the midfield three and forward three, therefore pressing the midfielders means they in the end have to play hopeful passes, which most likely end in them losing the ball.

It was similar against Leipzig, who they were lucky to beat by such a margin, and it doesn't look like it will improve later on the season. Dortmund not looking good at that moment at all.
 

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HerrLeinad said:
It's like watching Schalke if they had Reus. :lol:
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That is unfortunately a very good description. I wonder if Favre tries to shield his defense since those Dortmund defenders are so underwhelming.
 

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At Gladbach, Favre has started with stabilizing the defense and focused on the offensive part later on. So I guess we're seeing a similar "defense first, then build from it" approach now that might go on for a while.
 

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Now that the transfer window is closed, how does the Bundesliga stack up?

1 Premier League: spent 1420 million €, earned 423 million €, net total: -996 million €
2 Serie A: spent 1140 million €, earned 858 million €, net total: -284 million €
3 La Liga: spent 893 million €, earned 758 million €, net total: -135 million €
4 Ligue 1: spent 586 million €, earned 880 million €, net total: 294 million €
5 Bundesliga: spent 498 million €, earned 495 million €, net total: -3 million €

Pretty insane that the Pl spent nearly 3 times as much while earning less money through transfers.

German clubs continue to be extremely conservative with their investments and that leads to a lack of imported super stars in the league.

The biggest transfer fee was the 28 million € sale of Abdou Diallo to Borussia Dortmund, hardly a very exciting signing.

Bayern München are likely to increase that number next summer after taking a backseat this time but it's still pretty disheartening that the league with the highest attendance numbers is unable to compete for the best players.
 

hasanejaz88

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Synco said:
At Gladbach, Favre has started with stabilizing the defense and focused on the offensive part later on. So I guess we're seeing a similar "defense first, then build from it" approach now that might go on for a while.
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That made sense because he came towards the end of the season with Gladbach on the verge of relegation, the defensive stability let them atleast survive through the playoff route. When he had more time with the team during the following summer then what we saw immediately was an amazing attacking side.

Dortmund aren't in the same situation as Gladbach and they are expected to compete for the title, so Favre should be focusing on getting their attack back on track.
 

Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87

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Did Dortmund really play with 3 wingers upfront yesterday? Thanks god for them they got Paco, otherwise how could they score?
 

Synco

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hasanejaz88 said:
That made sense because he came towards the end of the season with Gladbach on the verge of relegation, the defensive stability let them atleast survive through the playoff route. When he had more time with the team during the following summer then what we saw immediately was an amazing attacking side.
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I think it is a general approach to implementing a style, and makes sense in Dortmund's case as well. Favre has been working on offense from the start, but it will take time. Paco Alcacer isn't even integrated yet, for example. It may simply be a much longer process than what you seem to expect, but we'll see.
hasanejaz88 said:
Dortmund aren't in the same situation as Gladbach and they are expected to compete for the title, so Favre should be focusing on getting their attack back on track.
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I'm sure it won't be his task to compete for the title immediately, in many ways this is a transition year for Dortmund (results being necessary, of course). What happens long term remains to be seen, but Bayern is a long way off, and will be for the forseeable future.
 

hasanejaz88

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Great finish from Goretzka, classy. Hope he plays a lot and improves this season. Been all over the pitch thus far. 1-0 Bayern.
 

Blackwidow

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hasanejaz88 said:
For all the attempts of Bayern to sell Boateng, I think he's started every competitive match for Bayern this season.
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If he is fit he for sure is the best defender Germany has - and one of the top 5 defenders in the world. The ball he plays from the back are real great.
 

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Blackwidow said:
If he is fit he for sure is the best defender Germany has - and one of the top 5 defenders in the world. The ball he plays from the back are real great.
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They sometimes get criticized for their defending but, the ball playing ability of Hummels and Boateng provides them so much.
 
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