Bundesliga to the Premier League

[padr81]

Which is why i think we should give Sancho some time. He had a poor game today and some might overreact but I'd give him 7/8 games before making a judgement on him as a player in our team.

7 or 8 games isn't enough. People were calling Bernardo Silva and Fabinho flops after 6 months, not from Bl but you get my point. Even if he has a poor season, next season is when he should be judged. Also note he's never played a season where defenders are allowed kick you before, for younger players that's gonna take some getting used of

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

No worries And I was also hoping someone would bite as the obvious analogies are transfers like Mkhitaryan, Kagawa, Keita etc.
Players get bought after one good year in a specific setup/a specific system and then underperform - irrespective of the league.
Also I think people severely overrate the expected "success" rate of high profile transfer. I remember the discussion of which top 10 most expensive transfers of all time were actually worth it - the answer is pretty grim, so "underachieving" seems often to be rather the norm than hitting the ground running. But peope want to look into alternative causation to have a satisfying explanation for something that seems wrong ("We/they spent so much money on him and he doesn't perform")

Oh I completely agree with your point - makes me feel all the sillier that I've fallen for your bait!

 

[Boavista]

Well it's a small sample but actually we've actually covered most, if not all, the high profile transfers in the last few years for 3 different top tier PL clubs, each with different backroom staff and playing tactics. If all players that come become injury prone then actually I think the intensity of the league has something to do with it too.

Anyway, what I really want to know is roughly how long Sancho will likely need to settle coming from the BL. It's interesting to estimate it from recent experiences and of course it's not an exact science, but if I were Ole, I'd be dead curious about this detail.

I get that you want to extrapolate something to see how Sancho is going to do, but you keep making conclusions from flawed assumptions and ignoring context. For instance maybe some players simply are injury prone to begin with, and that might have nothing to do with the intensity of the league? If you argue that way you can't possibly come to any other conclusion than the one you want to reach.

In a similar vein, what conclusions can you draw from someone like Son struggling in his first year in the PL when he also struggled in the Bundesliga? His talent was definitely there, but Leverkusen were very happy to let him go for 30m Euros. Just a quick google search shows that Germany's main football magazine Kicker gave him very average ratings for his two seasons with Leverkusen, ranking him their 12th best player across two seasons.

 

[spiriticon]

I get that you want to extrapolate something to see how Sancho is going to do, but you keep making conclusions from flawed assumptions and ignoring context. For instance maybe some players simply are injury prone to begin with, and that might have nothing to do with the intensity of the league? If you argue that way you can't possibly come to any other conclusion than the one you want to reach.

In a similar vein, what conclusions can you draw from someone like Son struggling in his first year in the PL when he also struggled in the Bundesliga? His talent was definitely there, but Leverkusen were very happy to let him go for 30m Euros. Just a quick google search shows that Germany's main football magazine Kicker gave him very average ratings for his two seasons with Leverkusen, ranking him their 12th best player across two seasons.

Well, every scientific model contains flawed assumptions and will not work on every case. But that doesn't mean you don't do them. If you justify all of the negative outcomes using some reason and exclude them as outliers, then all you're left is a 100% positive outcome which is also clearly untrue.

I am looking it at face value and no deeper. Yes there are statistically more robust ways of looking at this data over a large sample size but I'm not doing it at 11 pm at night mate.

 

[Desert Eagle]

7 or 8 games isn't enough. People were calling Bernardo Silva and Fabinho flops after 6 months, not from Bl but you get my point. Even if he has a poor season, next season is when he should be judged. Also note he's never played a season where defenders are allowed kick you before, for younger players that's gonna take some getting used of

There are two judgements that need to be made. How he is as a player in the prem in general which i think you are right, can take up to a season for some. The other is how he fits in Ole's United which i think might take less time. For the latter i think a month or so with Ronaldo in the side should be enough to get a pretty good idea.

 

[::sonny::]

Bundesliga is at the same level of the championship, it can’t be a benchmark the player performance in that league

30 goals in bundesliga it’s 4 goals in premier league

 

[Wolf1992]

Serie A players into the league include Lamela, Aquilani, Higuain, Borini, Osvaldo, Corradi, Bojinov, Shevchenko, Veron Henry Zola Bergkamp, Mutu. They have been a mixed bag as well

When Henry,Bergkamp,Veron,and Zola moved from Serie A to England, Italy was superior to EPL..no point in mentioning those examples...you can ad Ruud Gullit if you want.

It was the same as moving from EPL to Serie A nowadays.

 

[::sonny::]

Bundesliga is at the same level of the championship, it can’t be a benchmark the player performance in that league

30 goals in bundesliga it’s 4 goals in premier league

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[PoTMS]

I hope we stop buying players who have only played well in the Bundesliga. It's the equivalent of buying a player off Ajax or PSV.

 

[Blackwidow]

Rangnick told that after he made a win against the team ranked 18th of the league to talk his team up... The opponent you faced and won against - or will face soon - is always great...

This EPL comparison work in the EPL - and he is not even wrong with the attributes he mentioned in it - he did not talk about pressing or tactical knowledge...

The second to last team in the Bundesliga is the team of the 5 top leagues with the 3rd highest numbers of pressures per 90. Burnley is 75th of 98 in that ranking.

 

[Blackwidow]

I hope we stop buying players who have only played well in the Bundesliga. It's the equivalent of buying a player off Ajax or PSV.

No. It is not. It is about the players you take - there is a lot players that play great in the EPL coming from the Bundesliga. I am always surprised how much players I know from the Bundesliga that now play in the starting elevens of the EPL. Everybody who watches the Bundesliga could have told you about the weaknesses of a Timo Werner - and the ones that look through the hypes for youngsters about the strength and weaknesses of a Kai Havertz. You always have to look why a player thrives in a team - and what the tactics of your team and your league are. A player who is great in La Liga might not be good for the Bundesliga or the EPL - a player that shines in the EPL might not in other leagues or teams.

Leagues and teams are different.