Buying the best (of the rest) in the league

[Smores]

You seem to be implying thats not what we've been doing but it absolutely is with Lukaku, Sanchez and many before. We would have had another if we'd got our CB targets this summer.

As others have said the list is hindsight but looking forward there are targets such as Neves, Maguire, Maddison, Zaha who we should be considering.

One thing to consider is the disparity in wealth is much more even now, these teams can afford not to sell so prices are pushed up.

 

[the_irish123]

Wan Bissaka, Lascelles ..

 

[kaiser1]

Since ferguson left,

Fellaini, Schneiderlin, Mata, Shaw Matic Lukaku Alexis

 

[Zlatattack]

You can't just cherry pick the leagues talent anymore. Clubs don't need the money. If you want the unproven talent often you have to buy them before they become Premier league regulars.

Prices in our league are inflated because clubs don't need to sell. There are still deals to be had, Ramsey is an upgrade on Fellaini.

 

[Sky1981]

You can't just cherry pick the leagues talent anymore. Clubs don't need the money. If you want the unproven talent often you have to buy them before they become Premier league regulars.

Prices in our league are inflated because clubs don't need to sell. There are still deals to be had, Ramsey is an upgrade on Fellaini.

You can find some kids in brazil who never kickeda ball before. But if somehow united are interested in him he would somehow cost millions.

Just because leicester bought maguire for 17m doesnt mean we will too.

 

[Zlatattack]

You can find some kids in brazil who never kickeda ball before. But if somehow united are interested in him he would somehow cost millions.

Just because leicester bought maguire for 17m doesnt mean we will too.

That's because we come across as desperate. We've thrown money around without success. If we were in winning ways players would force moves, we're not, so players milk it and so do selling clubs, because they know we're desperate.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I'm not talking about 5-6 years ago, but the point in time they were transferred.

Kante, Van Dijk, Mane, Mahrez, Walker - sure things
Stones - more doubts, but close to a sure thing
Pickford, Robertson, Maguire, Richarlison, Arnautovic would have been speculative.

Van Gaal was linked with Mane before he went to Liverpool and a lot of fans dismissed it as a joke.

Kanté should have been signed by every top 6 club yet Chelsea got him for peanuts.

Van Dijk, Mahrez and Walker were all bought for silly money.

 

[charlenefan]

Times have changed, under Fergie we had no rivals who could match us financially - Wenger always wanted to unearth foreign hidden gems, Mourinho/Ambramovic generally looked abroad as well and ok we did miss out on several big names because of Chelsea's emergence but now not only can other clubs can match us for transfer fees but on the pitch we're obviously a far less enticing an option

 

[Pughnichi]

Theres been a number of discussions on what 'the united way' is, the ethos of the club - one of the aspects of Fergusons reign was always being ahead of the chasing pack and not allowing the gap to be bridged. We've allowed ourselves to be caught and surpassed in a number of ways.

One of these would be buying the best within the league. Even if there isn't an obvious need for it, its possible to make room for these players within the squad if you have a long term transfer strategy. I would suggest Juventus as being a good example of this.

Of course you can argue hindsight, but I think these players despite the CAFs evaluation of them at the time of transfer would have been smart and logical transfers:
Stones, Maguire, Van Dijk, Robertson, Kante, Mahrez, Mane, Richarlison, Arnautovic

While Pickford, Barkley & Walker would have been problematic to find a space in the squad, I think with foresight we could have found a way to make it work.

Looking forward, are there any noticeable players within the league whom you would sign without too much of a thought.

Ben Davies and Kieran Tripper still frustrate me. They were top performing players at their previous clubs, cost about 50p between them and at a time when we could have done with greater depth/competition/quality at LB & RB. They have both stepped up to another level with Walker gone and Rose’s recent injury lay off(s). They aren’t glamorous but we don’t need 25 worldys. They don’t strike me as a pair to moan not playing 40 games a season either....aaahhh

 

[Pughnichi]

Neves, Rice, Arnautovic, Pereyra, Bertrand, Chillwell, Maguire, Maddison, Gray, Sessegnon, Pickford, Richarlison, Sigurdsson, Sakho, Zaha, Ake, Fraser, Cook, Wilson.... not saying we should be going for all/any of these guys. They are however a handful of the ‘best of the rest’ and should really be achievable relatively easily in comparison to Alli say from Tottenham. I wouldn’t mind in fact if we signed any of thes players. Perhaps not Sakho

 

[Pughnichi]

Maguire was 17m when he went to Leicester. Many, including myself saw potential and a unique ability to play out from the back.

Van Dijk was expensive - but we are being quoted the same for serie A based defender s who we hope to become PL proven. van Dijk is and was proven.

Stones was suspect at the time, but the early praise is becoming justified.

Mahrez is an attacking right winger, transferred 4 yes after Martial. No comparison.

Robertson for 12m would have been good cover and rotation for Shaw.

VVD should have been bought coming from Celtic to Southampton. He can’t have been unnoticed entirely up north. How much did Southampton pay?

I mean we all make it sound so easy but our transfer approach and dealings in recent times has been nothing short of abysmal

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Current Squad,

SAF
+ Smalling from Fulham
+ Jones from Blackburn
+ Young from Aston Villa
+ Valencia from Wigan

Post-SAF trio
+ Fellaini from Everton
+ Shaw from Southampton
+ Lukaku from Everton
+ Grant from Stoke
(only counting from smaller clubs)

*+ Mata from Chelsea
*+ Matic from Chelsea
*+ Sanchez from Arsenal​

We sort of did more than just poaching from smaller clubs.

SAF
+ (too much to list out)

Post-SAF era
+ Mata from Chelsea
+ Fellaini from Everton
+ Shaw from Southampton
+ Schneiderlin from Southampton
+ Matic from Chelsea
+ Lukaku from Everton
+ Sanchez from Arsenal
+ Grant from Stoke

It's not like the club and whoever is managing the decisions and transfers can tell the future whether the players will perform well retaining the 'best of the rest' or turn out rubbish or becoming a joke/meme.

Spoiler

I mean SAF era, both Smalling and more especially Jones are given good hype when they're younger, and we won the race in getting them. Phil Jones are given huge hype at that time, Smalling not so much. Yeah, it's easy to ridicule it now. Young is more of a budget cost, and he's one of those cheap winger who is one of the big fish at lower club, the same thing with Valencia, both of them did superb with their previous clubs. The first season they come, they help light up the league and win titles. I believe Valencia is considered a huge bargain at that time. Since then, they've become as we know what happened. Just that most of these 4 are not popular transfer target, likely because they're not attractive enough, not a strong star quality.

Post SAF era, we know Shaw is highly rated at that time and we won in getting him. Schneiderlin did a solid job previously with some even said he's one of the best defensive mid of the league at that time, and I still remember some fans is excited with him but after quickly playing rubbish, it dies off quickly. Similarly if we consider Mata, Matic, Lukaku and Sanchez -- huge hype and plenty of excitement, regarded one of the best in their roles at that time before the joke that they are now. The first three did well at their first seasons given huge praises lavishly. Only Sanchez is criticised and struggled.

Fellaini is probably the only one not in this 'best of the rest' category post saf, eventhough if we think about it, he could easily become the starting key player at lower clubs making strong impacts in getting results, as he usually did with us anyway but more of a regular role... okay that last part is a lie since our 3 managers love him.. so it's really.. doesn't that mean he should be considered also in the category. Another one of not popular, lacking star quality.

Laugh all you want but as a second keeper role, isn't Lee Grant can be considered one of the best of the rest. He did superb job with Stoke and his other club.

In fact imo the club is doing a well mixed transfer types of decisions ~ United way of promoting youth (locally and poach from outside when they're younger), and then get proven/promising EPL or lower division players + foreign league players + free transfers. Thing is, whenever United is interested, usually there'll be boost to the prices, locally or outside. There is also that agent fees to think about. Getting a player at a good price is harder, especially getting a young high rated english player. Prices is also skyrocketing recent years. That said, I don't see our club making a terrible job, not fantastic job either, just okay.

I think we should also see how the top 6 clubs operate about their transfers. It's so different. Also players have their own preferences.

Spoiler

Chelsea doesn't mind selling their players if they longer need it to local rivals, while Arsenal have difficulty in keeping their players. Chelsea used to go head to head with us getting the best players in the league, now finding it difficult with City joining the fray. We're fighting well with City financially, but like it or not, they have more advantage now in so many ways. Before this, we can easily win, but SAF chose to back of when City decide to grant their players astronomical wages. Liverpool is seeking gems and stick with them, had to anyway, not much choice financially, and they're reaping the benefits now. Spurs similarly had to seek gems at lower clubs, play hard ball and succeeded maintaining their players, but easily lose some of their players due to financial reasons.

That said, not all of the 'best of the rest' players they got turn out well.

History and reputation of clubs and manager can play huge role in influencing player's decisions. Players like Carrick, Rooney and Berbatov insist on chosing us over any others as a result of that. Also, Chelsea have a huge advantage because of their location. Location can also have huge decisions.

The rivalry between top teams can also hinder direct transfer exchange. Liverpool and United rivalry -- it's rare for the two to exchange players directly, and in a long roundabout way it often result in bad blood eg. Ince and Owen. United and City is similar, but now it's getting difficult, before when they're low level team, in a roundabout way, they got our players. We've also poached a lot of 'em at youth level. Chelsea case is unique. Arsenal used to tough before when they're our best rival, but gradually it's easy as SAF and Wenger reconcile. I think Silvestre is perhaps the first one and the first sign of that. Arsenal vs Chelsea and Arsenal vs City used to have big fights over it though, but their players force the move. Now, they're struggling. Spurs as usual.

The top teams have always been competitive before with each other. It's not a recent phenomena in the league. We had good fights over the years in getting this 'best of the rest' with many top teams at different time. We lose some and we win some. No top team always win in this league -- this is not Bundesliga. Good thing is we're still doing it but still in a more balance way. Our transfer strategy should be improved tbh, currently the manager have the big say over it.

Hindsight is really 20/20 though.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

the cafe will always claim a player from a lower EPL club is not good enough till they move else where. It happens almost every time

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Btw, what happened to Sessegnon? No longer popular transfer target?

Looking forward, are there any noticeable players within the league whom you would sign without too much of a thought.

Not including the current top 6, just the rest of the english leagues clubs.

Now?
Just Richarlison adding competitions to our attacking options, and Pickford (depends on De Gea situation).
Ryan Sessegnon also, but I'll loan him out to accumulate exps quickly.

Before this,
Kante with Leicester definitely before he went to Chelsea. Same thing Joe Cole with West ham before Chelsea -- he's annoyingly an exciting player.
Pretty sure there's more, forgot.

 

[GlastonSpur]

the cafe will always claim a player from a lower EPL club is not good enough till they move else where. It happens almost every time

Very true.

 

[Mogget]

Chilwell looks like he could be a very good LB in the future

 

[VeevaVee]

Potential EPL targets for next season:
Richarlison, Neves, Maguire, Felipe Anderson, Madisson, Zaha and Wan-Bissaka

Richarlison can compete with Lukaku for the striker role. Would be an ideal signing with the only negative being it might push Rashford out.

Neves is a decent midfielder but I don't think he's good enough. Would prefer N'dombele from Lyon.

Same goes for Maguire. Better options available for similar price abroad. Skriniar would be my preferred choice.

Wan-Bissaka is a player we should be targeting. Him and Dalot to take over from Valencia and Young.

Madisson has good stats but somehow I don't think he's technically good enough. His current form might just be a purple patch. We need better players than him.

Felipe Anderson has been excellent. Hardworking and creative. But we already have Martial playing on the left wing. So unless it's for a CAM role, we should avoid him.

Zaha on the right wing would be a huge upgrade for us. But the player himself might prefer to go somewhere new.

These would upgrade and refresh our squad no end. I'd cream myself if we bought em all. Even if some of them became squad players. We could start looking at sprinkling marquee signings in a few positions after this.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

I wonder if Dacoure could still raise it a level and we will regret not going for him.

In terms of the players we have, Lindelof reminds me a little of when Stones first went to City. Mistakes in him but with confidence he could kick on.