Cancel Culture

[berbatrick]

Fighting cancellation with big balls

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Previous hits the SJWs couldn't deal with:

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Forgot to add, not just is he thanfully immune from cancellation, he was one of the architects of the welfare reform carried out by the Clintons and the Republicans in the 90s.

 

[BobbyManc]

Fighting cancellation with big balls

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Previous hits the SJWs couldn't deal with:

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Forgot to add, not just is he thanfully immune from cancellation, he was one of the architects of the welfare reform carried out by the Clintons and the Republicans in the 90s.

Murray’s pseudo-science racist trash is the perfect example of why cancel culture is confected nonsense. If you say things that are serviceable to those in power, no matter how controversial or how much it antagonises the big bad left, you are often richly rewarded - the exact opposite of the mythical cancelling.

 

[NotThatSoph]

Murray’s pseudo-science racist trash is the perfect example of why cancel culture is confected nonsense. If you say things that are serviceable to those in power, no matter how controversial or how much it antagonises the big bad left, you are often richly rewarded - the exact opposite of the mythical cancelling.

Can't be pseudoscience when you create pretty graphs!

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Human Accomplishment is probably the worst book ever written, any genre.

 

[berbatrick]

https://asadhaider.substack.com/p/critical-confusion

Parts that I liked, some I already agreed with and some were stuff I didn't know about:

(this part i definitely agree with)

Furthermore, Marx’s economic theory can’t be understood in terms of a moralistic binary between oppressor and oppressed. He presents an analysis of capitalism as a contradictory system, which is prone to crises and ultimately undermines its own capacity to deliver economic growth as the result of its relations of production.

Marcuse gave his own peculiar interpretation, building on the idea that the industrial working class of the advanced capitalist countries had been integrated into the system, and proposing that revolution would come from those who were “outside” the society. His framework was certainly cultural, but his willingness to relinquish the working class as the agent of revolution puts him totally at odds with Gramsci. Furthermore, the reaction of colleagues of his like Adorno, despite also building on similar theoretical foundations, was that the New Left was completely vacuous and even reactionary

(no surprise that i've seen gramsci quoted a few times in random leftist articles, and not marcuse)

In the American academy, “postmodernism” would come to be conflated with any kind of skepticism towards universal truth. This relativism was itself then conflated with the emergence and growth of programs in ethnic studies, feminist studies, and so on. Scholarship in these rising disciplines often had to criticize existing methodologies, which, for example, had based knowledge about South Asia on the archives of the colonists, or wrote labor history without explaining how women formed a part of the working class. These were serious methodological and conceptual questions which were consistent with basic goals of intellectual life: to expand knowledge beyond existing boundaries, to question received wisdom, to interrogate the structure of society.

But the conflation of these questions, which were a matter of scholarly rigor, with the ill-defined category of “postmodernism” resulted in a somewhat cartoonish academic politics, which is what the pundits really have in mind when they’re referring to postmodernism. This is the zone where the oppressor/oppressed binary, identity, and lived experience became the foundations of politics, and they often resurface in contemporary discourses of social justice. It was often based on a grab-bag of references that were tenuously tied to ad hoc positions within university politics.

However, this “postmodernism” was not only an independent development from the thinking of figures like Foucault and Derrida, it was totally incompatible with their insights.

(stuff i know nothing about)

As Foucault traces in his 1978 lecture “What is Critique,” in Europe the critical attitude arises in the context of societies in which people and their thoughts are governed by religion, and it reflects the desire not to be governed — or at least, not to be governed quite like that. Critique is “the art of not being governed quite so much.” Hence the critical attitude of the Enlightenment is to not simply accept what an authority tells you is true, but to independently determine its validity; not to follow laws because they are dictated by power, but because you have determined them to be just. Critique, contrary to Sullivan’s paranoia, is an Enlightenment attitude.

Of course, this doesn’t mean that some unmodified conception of the Enlightenment could just be reasserted as a contemporary vantage of critique. Indicating some affinity with the Frankfurt School, Foucault noted that the forms of rationality that emerged along with the Enlightenment were also implicated in new forms of power, operating within rather than in spite of scientific knowledge, political freedom, and individual subjectivity. But understanding these developments was itself part of the complex operation of the critical attitude, which was not afraid to put its own standpoint into question.

It’s the critique of power that worries the likes of Sullivan, who says that it amounts to the view that “we live in a system of interlocking oppressions that penalize various identity groups in a society. And all power is zero-sum: you either have power over others or they have power over you.”

It’s either amusing or painful to read this since Foucault’s analysis of power was specifically directed against the zero-sum view, for which power is something that one holds and wields over another. Foucault conceived power as productive and relational. In the first volume of The History of Sexuality, a short and clear book which Sullivan could read, Foucault dispels these interpretations completely. Consider this straightforward sentence: “Power is not something that is acquired, seized, or shared, something that one holds on to or allows to slip away.” Or: “Power comes from below; that is, there is no binary and all-encompassing opposition between rulers and ruled at the root of power relations.”


What Foucault is arguing is that power isn’t repressive, as in someone prohibiting you from doing something, but productive, in the sense that it produces particular ways of living, moving, working, and acting. Crucially, it produces identities: identities aren’t pre-existing categories which are then the basis of oppression by a more powerful identity. Power actually constitutes these identity categories, which is why part of the critical attitude involves putting our own identities into question, rather than asserting that they reflect our inner essence.

 

[berbatrick]

As usual the leftist nazis that dominate the academy cancel another moderate conservative for wrongthink

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[adexkola]

Yeah the idea of cancel culture, as raised by the likes of Rowling and co, is bullshit.

 

[sebsheep]

As usual the leftist nazis that dominate the academy cancel another moderate conservative for wrongthink

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Those marxist cops really showed him!

 

[BobbyManc]

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It’s shocking the amount of shite that can make it into the mainstream media. I too have been punished for not commenting on the pictures in my manager’s office

 

[berbatrick]

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Oh shit. What did the left do to drive away this fine woman?

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Oh. Ohhhh.

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Hmm. 24 hours is a very flexible unit of measurement.

 

[berbatrick]

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[Halftrack]

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Voting for a political candidate is now cancelling their opponent. Sure, ok, got it.

I think we can safely say that the idea of "cancel culture" has been beaten soundly to death. By the Harper's letter, mind. Senator Loeffler just put a few rounds in the corpse for good measure.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Boycott]

Most of the people I see reported being "cancelled", I've never heard of in the first place.

Who cares?

People need to get off twitter.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Nick Cave on cancel culture.

 

[balaks]

Nick Cave on cancel culture.

Love Nick Cave. Incredibly articulate and talented man. I completely agree with what he wrote.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Love Nick Cave. Incredibly articulate and talented man. I completely agree with what he wrote.

He’s got a way with words alright. The piece he wrote about grief and loss after his son’s death was an incredible piece of writing.

 

[Sweet Square]

I forget just how weird this guy is

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[Vernon Philander]

Love Nick Cave. Incredibly articulate and talented man. I completely agree with what he wrote.

"Mercy" and "compassion" ... until it applies to a few families on a small rubber boat.

 

[Cascarino]

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Hmm. 24 hours is a very flexible unit of measurement.

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Spoiler

 

[berbatrick]

not sure which thread this goes in, general culture war nonsense

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[KirkDuyt]

not sure which thread this goes in, general culture war nonsense

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Tiny children calling themselves fully grown adults make me feel old.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

"Mercy" and "compassion" ... until it applies to a few families on a small rubber boat.

Huh?

 

[Vernon Philander]

Huh?

The argument against so called cancel culture and the anti migrant sentiment come from the same end of the spectrum

 

[stevoc]

Whats the story with George RR Martin and the Hugo awards then? Been accused of racism for mispronouncing names, must be more to it than that?

 

[KirkDuyt]

Whats the story with George RR Martin and the Hugo awards then? Been accused of racism for mispronouncing names, must be more to it than that?

Misspronouncing a name is racist now? He also joked about the Oscar statue being a eunuch. Deary me, off with his head.

 

[stevoc]

Misspronouncing a name is racist now? He also joked about the Oscar statue being a eunuch. Deary me, off with his head.

The whole controversy seems confusing to be honest, he's also being criticized for mentioning historic authors like HP Lovecraft and John W. Campbell who are considered racists. Fair enough i could understand the criticism if only for the fact that they were being awarded posthumous Hugos at the show and he was the presenter. In which case what was he supposed to do?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The argument against so called cancel culture and the anti migrant sentiment come from the same end of the spectrum

They really don’t.

 

[Wolverine]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...am-giant-Ben-Jerrys-overpriced-junk-food.html
Freeze them out: Call for boycott of 'woke' US ice-cream company Ben & Jerry's for condemning UK attempts to curb Channel migrants (and a reminder of how former hippy founders sold out to multinational Unilever)

The right says lets cancel ice cream because they dared to suggest humanity towards a group of vulnerable people.

 

[fergieisold]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...am-giant-Ben-Jerrys-overpriced-junk-food.html
Freeze them out: Call for boycott of 'woke' US ice-cream company Ben & Jerry's for condemning UK attempts to curb Channel migrants (and a reminder of how former hippy founders sold out to multinational Unilever)

The right says lets cancel ice cream because they dared to suggest humanity towards a group of vulnerable people.

It was an ill judged tweet tbf. A lot of the migrants are attempting dangerous crossings for economic reasons. If they were simply just fleeing war or persecution to find safety they’d have already found that in other parts of Europe.

 

[Conor]

It was an ill judged tweet tbf. A lot of the migrants are attempting dangerous crossings for economic reasons. If they were simply just fleeing war or persecution to find safety they’d have already found that in other parts of Europe.

Jesus Christ.

 

[hobbers]

Looks like Andrew Neil pretty much nailed it in his reply to them.

It is just another case of vacuous corporate virtue signalling and nothing more.

 

[KirkDuyt]

It was an ill judged tweet tbf. A lot of the migrants are attempting dangerous crossings for economic reasons. If they were simply just fleeing war or persecution to find safety they’d have already found that in other parts of Europe.

Maybe Nigel Farage convinced them the EU is shite and they decided the place to be is post brexit England. The land of plenty.

 

[BobbyManc]

A lot of the migrants are attempting dangerous crossings for economic reasons

Ah yes, that common phenomenon whereby people regularly undertake dangerous crossings that imperil the safety of themselves and their family for *checks notes* economic reasons. Nothing compels you to get on an overcrowded small dinghy with your children to cross the Channel like the chance of a few extra quid in your pocket. People are notorious for taking such journeys in spite of enjoying reliable access to the most basic levels of shelter, food, and employment/income.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Ah yes, that common phenomenon whereby people regularly undertake dangerous crossings that imperil the safety of themselves and their family for *checks notes* economic reasons. Nothing compels you to get on an overcrowded small dinghy with your children to cross the Channel like the chance of a few extra quid in your pocket. People are notorious for taking such journeys in spite of enjoying reliable access to the most basic levels of shelter, food, and employment/income.

Most are young men travelling without children so let’s drop that canard based on one emotive photograph. What is preventing them seeking asylum in France as opposed to the UK? Whether the UK should increase its share of the refugee/migrant burden is a valid question (it should IMO, within reason) but once they have reached the EU (certainly the western half), the decision to keep moving cannot be ascribed to basic self-preservation instincts.

 

[BobbyManc]

Most are young men travelling without children so let’s drop that canard based on one emotive photograph. What is preventing them seeking asylum in France as opposed to the UK? Whether the UK should increase its share of the refugee/migrant burden is a valid question (it should IMO, within reason) but once they have reached the EU (certainly the western half), the decision to keep moving cannot be ascribed to basic self-preservation instincts.

We know families make the same perilous journey, so let’s not drop that canard just because it’s convenient to your argument. Why are these families and young men making this decision if not for their ‘basic self-preservation instincts’? They don’t make that journey out of some calculated economic decision as you seem to imply, they make it because they are fecking desperate, exhausted other options and feel it is their only viable route left. Nobody would rationally make that decision if they were having their basic needs met where they were, or felt that they would be met for the foreseeable future.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

We know families make the same perilous journey, so let’s not drop that canard just because it’s convenient to your argument. Why are these families and young men making this decision if not for their ‘basic self-preservation instincts’? They don’t make that journey out of some calculated economic decision as you seem to imply, they make it because they are fecking desperate, exhausted other options and feel it is their only viable route left. Nobody would rationally make that decision if they were having their basic needs met where they were, or felt that they would be met for the foreseeable future.

As per usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

To say that no one would make that trip for economic reasons is extremely doubtful.

 

[dumbo]

Feck BnJ, surely the point is about right wing Tory pigs calling for a boycott of Ice cream, all the while condemning cancel culture as a lefty, Marxist conspiracy. When these hideous Tory pigs are condemned for their far-right or racist or transphobic or other bigoted views - and actions, they scream like banshees about the censorial left, freedom of speech and the cultural harm of woke boycotts. When their Tory pig feckery world view is criticised by a frozen dessert they melt like snowflakes under piss.

It's only ice cream you totally shit people, you can still be racist if you want to, and you want to.

 

[Cascarino]

Looks like Andrew Neil pretty much nailed it in his reply to them.

It is just another case of vacuous corporate virtue signalling and nothing more.

Don’t BnJ have a history of social activism?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Don’t BnJ have a history of social activism?

They do. Loads of corporations cynically try to exploit the “woke dollar”, especially recently, but that doesn’t mean that none of them are well intentioned. The BnJ guys have a long history of trying to do the right thing.

 

[Cascarino]

They do. Loads of corporations cynically try to exploit the “woke dollar”, especially recently, but that doesn’t mean that none of them are well intentioned. The BnJ guys have a long history of trying to do the right thing.

I wasn't sure but had seen that implied in memes, which we all know is the most accurate source of information. Think the bolded is very true, even if it can be hard to not be too cynical sometimes with some of the corporate hypocrisy we see.