Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion

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Chelsea have won two league titles since United put up a challenge let alone won one.

Also your two year upward trajectory has a fair few Ole out holes in it. A couple of months ago you were losing 1-0 at home to Arsenal and you’ve been flirting with the idea of sacking him for ages now. A few bad results and you’re back there again.

Chelsea can at least point to their trophy success regardless of who is managing them. They went from 10th in 2016 to 1st in 2017 and had three different managers across those two seasons.
Heh, rattled :D
 

Chief123

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We both wanted Kante (and he was on around 120-140k during his first contract with us so let's skip the bit where you pretend you wouldn't have at the very least matched it) so if this is all players care about why didn't you get him?

No Chelsea fan either on here or elsewhere denies you're the bigger club (which makes you and others coming on this thread uptight about it all the more strange).

Answer me this, if club size and history were the primary or even secondary thoughts in a players mind when picking a new club then why hasn't top talent been queing up to go to AC Milan this past decade? In terms of historical pedigree (especially in Europe) only Madrid can top them, so if history/size is what players care about surely some would have gone there even recently, no?
Well we’ve already established that money talks. That’s the whole point of the discussion right? I highly doubt milan have been offering wages as high as other billionaire clubs. Pretty much the opposite reason why City and Chelsea were able to obtain any kind of decent players by just showing the money when the billionaire owners came in. I didn’t expect Chelsea or city fans to just accept that fact, but let’s be honest. If both city and Chelsea owners were to sell up, both clubs would slowly go back to irrelevance unless the new owner came in and continuously pumped silly money in. I’m not even sure why we are debating this.
 

thatsme

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Well we’ve already established that money talks. That’s the whole point of the discussion right? I highly doubt milan have been offering wages as high as other billionaire clubs. Pretty much the opposite reason why City and Chelsea were able to obtain any kind of decent players by just showing the money when the billionaire owners came in. I didn’t expect Chelsea or city fans to just accept that fact, but let’s be honest. If both city and Chelsea owners were to sell up, both clubs would slowly go back to irrelevance unless the new owner came in and continuously pumped silly money in. I’m not even sure why we are debating this.
I was sure you're way off with your post, so i did a quick Google.

Man City were indeed ",irrelevant" having not won any major trophy since the League Cup in 1976.

In the 7 years before Abramovich took over Chelsea, they had won the FA Cup in 97 & 2000. Cup Winners Cup in 98. League Cup in 98. Super Cup in 98. Don't count the Community Shield in 2000.
In 97/98 they finished 4th in the league. 98/99 -3rd, just 4 points from the winners. 2002/03 - 4th.
So in those years leading up to Ambramovich, Chelsea were level with Liverpool as joint 3rd most successful club. Bizarre to compare the Chelsea and City records.


Players - They signed the likes of - Desailly and Lebeouf, Frances 98 World Cup winning defenders. Lampard. Gallas. Carlo Cudicini. Gudjohnsen. Hasselbaink. Vialli. Zola. Gullitt. Le Saux was signed for a record fee for an English defender. Gus Poyet.
They'd all walk into Chelsea teams of recent years.
 

TheReligion

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Doesn’t Chelsea’s record under Abramovic speak for itself though? Even if Lampard gets the sack, you know their next trophy is just around the corner. They never go long without winning something. They won the Europa League in 2019. They won the league in 2017.

United haven’t gone into the final five games of a season still in the title conversation since Ferguson retired.
Most Liverpool fans I know really hate Chelsea. Odd seeing you running to their defence here.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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Well we’ve already established that money talks. That’s the whole point of the discussion right? I highly doubt milan have been offering wages as high as other billionaire clubs. Pretty much the opposite reason why City and Chelsea were able to obtain any kind of decent players by just showing the money when the billionaire owners came in. I didn’t expect Chelsea or city fans to just accept that fact, but let’s be honest. If both city and Chelsea owners were to sell up, both clubs would slowly go back to irrelevance unless the new owner came in and continuously pumped silly money in. I’m not even sure why we are debating this.
Abramovich has been with us coming on 18 years now, likelihood is he wont be selling up anytime soon. Lets say he doesnt pass the club on to his son, which was reported once. Whoever was to buy us off Roman hypothetically, would have to have some serious financial clout behind him. And you'd do well to even get a sniff at buying Man City.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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I was sure you're way off with your post, so i did a quick Google.

Man City were indeed ",irrelevant" having not won any major trophy since the League Cup in 1976.

In the 7 years before Abramovich took over Chelsea, they had won the FA Cup in 97 & 2000. Cup Winners Cup in 98. League Cup in 98. Super Cup in 98. Don't count the Community Shield in 2000.
In 97/98 they finished 4th in the league. 98/99 -3rd, just 4 points from the winners. 2002/03 - 4th.
So in those years leading up to Ambramovich, Chelsea were level with Liverpool as joint 3rd most successful club. Bizarre to compare the Chelsea and City records.


Players - They signed the likes of - Desailly and Lebeouf, Frances 98 World Cup winning defenders. Lampard. Gallas. Carlo Cudicini. Gudjohnsen. Hasselbaink. Vialli. Zola. Gullitt. Le Saux was signed for a record fee for an English defender. Gus Poyet.
They'd all walk into Chelsea teams of recent years.
Always gets ignored that pre Roman era. Since 96/97 we have finished lower than 6th once, and that was in 15/16 when we finished 10th. CL quarter finalists in 2000. Winning the trophies you listed, still signing top players.
 

el3mel

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Complete nonsense. Over the past two seasons, we are the side making the most progress. On the steepest upward trajectory if you like. Then, add to that the fact that we are bigger than City and Chelsea combined (not arrogance, it’s true), our worldwide fan base and massive 75,000 seater stadium where they can strut their stuff every fortnight.

Even if we’re not first place though, at least City have the Pep factor and two very recent titles. What do you lot have over either club? Seriously, I’m not sure.
These don't matter for most players nowadays. The majority only cares about money and success. Money even more than success I'll dare to say for some of them.

Not that I agree we'll be last in any player's wishlist in comparison to City and Chelsea (it doesn't work like that, if we offer more money several players will prefer it here) but things like being bigger club or having a big fanbase are irrelevant for most players these days.
 

RashyForPM

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These don't matter for most players nowadays. The majority only cares about money and success. Money even more than success I'll dare to say for some of them.

Not that I agree we'll be last in any player's wishlist in comparison to City and Chelsea (it doesn't work like that, if we offer more money several players will prefer it here) but things like being bigger club or having a big fanbase are irrelevant for most players these days.
Honestly, I think it still does. Otherwise, why would someone like Partey leave Atletico for Arsenal? Things like the fan base, the stadium etc still play a part imo.
 

el3mel

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Honestly, I think it still does. Otherwise, why would someone like Partey leave Atletico for Arsenal? Things like the fan base, the stadium etc still play a part imo.
Pretty sure Arsenal will end up paying him more than Atletico.

As I said money and success, but money even more than success for many players nowadays.

Of course there're still players who will love being at a certain club because they love it, but for many players nowadays it's mostly business.
 

RashyForPM

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Pretty sure Arsenal will end up paying him more than Atletico.

As I said money and success, but money even more than success for many players nowadays.

Of course there're still players who will love being at a certain club because they love it, but for many players nowadays it's mostly business.
Of course. You have players like Grealish, Phillips and Rice, but you also have those like Partey and Oscar. Still though, I believe when you combine all these factors, we are a more attractive proposition than Chelsea to players.
 

el3mel

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Of course. You have players like Grealish, Phillips and Rice, but you also have those like Partey and Oscar. Still though, I believe when you combine all these factors, we are a more attractive proposition than Chelsea to players.
Yeah I don't agree with him that we're not as attractive as Chelsea or City. It just doesn't work like. As long as we're around top 4 consistently and pay well, we won't struggle in getting the players we need and we have shown that previously.
 

Klopper76

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Most Liverpool fans I know really hate Chelsea. Odd seeing you running to their defence here.
I’m calling this particular debate how I see it. You’re still the bigger club but lack of competitiveness on the pitch catches up with everyone eventually. If players are after major trophies and comparing between United, Chelsea and City right now, then they’d see more recent success with the latter two and probably think they’re more likely to find success there.

Like I said earlier, if you pull off a league title this season then it changes that.
 

Chairman Steve

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The fact they've targetted Werner and Havertz makes me believe they want to nab one of Nagelsmann or Rose in the not-too-distant future (maybe even Tuchel now). I get the feeling Lampard okayed them as they were obviously talented players, rather than he was determined to get them. Big daddy Roman and his football cabal have projected to get one of them hot German managers soon, and what better way to do that than get the German talent.
 

Maluco

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Poor Frank is a dead man walking.

Chelsea have just spent a fortune on Havertz and Werner and already have players with ties to Germany in Rudiger and Pulisic.

They also have some really good technical midfielders in Kovacic and Jorginho.

It’s all set up for Tuchel to come in and have a go at it. He is free and just sitting there. Pressure builds at a club like Chelsea when you spend big and don’t get results.

Honestly, a loss to City and dropped points vs Leicester, and I see Tuchel there before the end of January.
 

TheReligion

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I’m calling this particular debate how I see it. You’re still the bigger club but lack of competitiveness on the pitch catches up with everyone eventually. If players are after major trophies and comparing between United, Chelsea and City right now, then they’d see more recent success with the latter two and probably think they’re more likely to find success there.

Like I said earlier, if you pull off a league title this season then it changes that.
That's fine. It's all subjective really and would depend on individual players thoughts too.
 

thatsme

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Honestly, I think it still does. Otherwise, why would someone like Partey leave Atletico for Arsenal? Things like the fan base, the stadium etc still play a part imo.
I agree about stadiums and fanbases being important factors.
It doesn't matter how great AC Milan once were. These days they're playing in a shitty, old stadium which is often half empty and that will put off a lot of players from going there.
That club badly needs to do what Juve did and build a much smaller but better stadium of 50_000 max.
 

nuanced

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The fact they've targetted Werner and Havertz makes me believe they want to nab one of Nagelsmann or Rose in the not-too-distant future (maybe even Tuchel now). I get the feeling Lampard okayed them as they were obviously talented players, rather than he was determined to get them. Big daddy Roman and his football cabal have projected to get one of them hot German managers soon, and what better way to do that than get the German talent.
Looking at their recent history, they're likely to hire a Simeone than a Nagelsmann after Lampard.
 

thatsme

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Always gets ignored that pre Roman era. Since 96/97 we have finished lower than 6th once, and that was in 15/16 when we finished 10th. CL quarter finalists in 2000. Winning the trophies you listed, still signing top players.
And what's with this "you've got no history" thing that UTD and Liverpool fans love to beat you with?
Every club in the league has a history and all fans love their clubs, regardless of where they are in the leagues. The only difference being, some clubs during their history have won more than others and have some clubs have more fans than others.
Success anf popularity does not mean History.
 

nuanced

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Honestly, I think it still does. Otherwise, why would someone like Partey leave Atletico for Arsenal? Things like the fan base, the stadium etc still play a part imo.
Because Arsenal were willing to pay off his release clause and meet his salary demands.

I think that stadiums matter only for very select few cases like San Siro, Bernabeu, Camp Nou, Anfield, OT. Places where epic matches took place, and especially around the time the player was just starting to follow the game as a kid. I don't think the Emirates falls in that group, and neither do the Arsenal fans strike me as being vociferous to create an attractive atmosphere.
 

Klopper76

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That's fine. It's all subjective really and would depend on individual players thoughts too.
Yeah of course. Some players see United’s worldwide appeal and nothing else matters. United are still the biggest name in England.
 

MayosNoun

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I love how people in their 20s blabber on about their clubs fantastic history and achievements prior to their birth. Did you enjoy that in the comfort of a womb?

I tend to focus on achievements I have lived through. I respect past achievements but I do not dwell on these. I leave these to the people who have genuine memories of them.
 

littleman

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I love how people in their 20s blabber on about their clubs fantastic history and achievements prior to their birth. Did you enjoy that in the comfort of a womb?

I tend to focus on achievements I have lived through. I respect past achievements but I do not dwell on these. I leave these to the people who have genuine memories of them.
If we get more real, none of these are our achievements.

Just because we are fans of a supremely successful club doesn't mean jack shit to our lives, right? Honest truth is that MUFC is probably the most successful thing in most people's lives here.
 

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Sourness has actually just made a good point on Ziyech in relation to the 3rd City goal. Why, after taking the set piece, does he not sprint his arse off to at least try to prevent KdB from getting the ball, which happened in the end?

And now Keano makes a good point on the first goal too. Why is Mount not sliding in or tackling Gundogan when he’s literally a hair’s breath away from him?

Their attitude today was shocking. If Fat Frank doesn’t sort it out, then it doesn’t look good for him.
 

Ecstatic

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Are fans happy with Thiago Silva? Is he declining since the start of the season or doing well?
 

TheReligion

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Ziyech getting pulled apart for being lazy by Souness and Keane. There's a clip of the third goal and he doesn't bother to track back at all despite starting almost level with Sterling and Kante. He's barely in his own half by the time KDB slots it in.
 

WeePat

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Sourness has actually just made a good point on Ziyech in relation to the 3rd City goal. Why, after taking the set piece, does he not sprint his arse off to at least try to prevent KdB from getting the ball, which happened in the end?

And now Keano makes a good point on the first goal too. Why is Mount not sliding in or tackling Gundogan when he’s literally a hair’s breath away from him?

Their attitude today was shocking. If Fat Frank doesn’t sort it out, then it doesn’t look good for him.
They are both right on all accounts, sadly.
 

DoneDaDa

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What are Chelsea fans thoughts on the current situation? How much blame do you put on Lampard and how much on the board/players?
 

RashyForPM

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They are both right on all accounts, sadly.
And I’m not surprised by Ziyech because while I never watched the Eredivisie, he was also nowhere near as hardworking as the likes of VdB, De Jong, Neres, Tadic, Tagliafico etc in the CL. In fact, he was lazy. With Mount though, normally while the quality may not be there sometimes, he is very attritional. Today, and not just on the goal, he seemed unwilling to tackle, stick a foot in or simply track runners. On the goal itself, the worst case scenario was a mistimed tackle and a free-kick for City.

Be unfair to single him out though. For example, Werner and Havertz (only had 13 minutes tbf) had another shitshow, and Kante was simply shocking. Obviously I’m fine with the German lads struggling as a United fan, but I’m surprised after watching them in the Bundesliga and Europe for two seasons.
 

WeePat

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And I’m not surprised by Ziyech because while I never watched the Eredivisie, he was also nowhere near as hardworking as the likes of VdB, De Jong, Neres, Tadic, Tagliafico etc in the CL. In fact, he was lazy. With Mount though, normally while the quality may not be there sometimes, he is very attritional. Today, and not just on the goal, he seemed unwilling to tackle, stick a foot in or simply track runners. On the goal itself, the worst case scenario was a mistimed tackle and a free-kick for City.

Be unfair to single him out though. For example, Werner and Havertz (only had 13 minutes tbf) had another shitshow, and Kante was simply shocking. Obviously I’m fine with the German lads struggling as a United fan, but I’m surprised after watching them in the Bundesliga and Europe for two seasons.
I mean I don't think that is true re; Ziyech. He's always been a hardworking player who presses like a maniac, but it was his first game back in weeks after yet another niggling injury. But Chelsea on the whole, used to be a very good, aggressive pressing team under Lampard and we hardly do any of that any more. No idea why we have stopped doing it, perhaps it is linked to Lampard wanting to shore up the defense, I'm not sure though.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Age has caught up with him over the last couple of weeks? Nah. We're just playing shite.
Why not?

‘And also He’s part of the leader though, Lampard made him captain so you expect him to help the manager to motivate his team mate to play better.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

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Too many new players thrown in together in a bizarre season - I think they need time. It's easy to say they spent 250m, but it was a long term plan with young players. On paper the squad they have is too good to not gel together at some point. Even in flashes, you can see what the likes of Pulisic, Ziyech, CHO and James can do. I think Lampard will and should be given time. Also, Chelsea have this annoying habit of getting a new manager in and winning a title randomly, looking imperious for that season. So I have vested interests in him getting a longer rope than underperforming Chelsea managers usually do.
 

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He’s part of the leader though, Lampard made him captain so you expect him to help the manager to motivate his team mate to play better.
Azpi is captain. Jorginho is vice captain. I think Silva got the armband is they're both out.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Azpi is captain. Jorginho is vice captain. I think Silva got the armband is they're both out.
Still that means three of leaders there. After all, Silva was signed to organise the defense and recently defense has been so poor.