I think Chelsea has documented hands on experience with argumentative managers. They'll be all right.
Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel
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I think his relationship with Marina Granovskaia was a big issue. She also was also key in getting their two big money German signing in so I'd guess it's in part motivated by her needing to get some ROI on those two poorly performing players for Roman.Not a bad manager, so in that regard I think it’s a good move. That said, the sacking of Lampard is a bad move. Managers need to get more time, especially the young ones. I can’t understand why they even appointed him in the first place if his not given time
It only shows that Roman doesn't give a flying feck about the fans and their emotional connection with Frankie. He is part of the fabric of the club's history.
One of their own doesn't matter -- its all about Roman wanting his ego stroked by winning. Reminds me of one of those Christmas tales where the poor kids (aka Chelsea fans) are, outside looking in from the window of the rich man's house with all his wealth, food etc. (A Christmas Carol?)
But some of their plastic fans will rationalise it as -- it's all about the winning, then they are deluded. It was never about winning for the fans. It proves, that with Frankie's sacking that its 100% all about the ego of one man. Nothing more, nothing less. The fans don't really matter one iota.
That's got to be a sad realisation for a Chelsea fan if they have not figure that out by now.
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This old chestnut. This happens every time a big player underperforms, when he signs the managers pulling power is praised but then when they hit a rut/take time to settle all of a sudden they're board signings.
Not sure I agree with this, if you read the Athletic article which seems to have excellent sources on this and has been predicting it (as well as the need for a German speaking manager) for quite a while now it was all down to the relationship with Marina Granovskaia as @Classical Mechanic says above.
Apparently lots of players were upset that Frank never spoke to them at all and he feels he's been so badly treated by the club that he wanted to leave in the summer and the only reason he didnt was because it was Chelsea and his relationship with Abramovich was strong.
Whole article is here https://theathletic.co.uk/2298337/2...marina-unhappy-players-and-secret-job-offers/
- Lampard’s relationship with influential director Marina Granovskaia deteriorated
- Ralf Rangnick was offered interim job last week for four months but turned it down
- Calls were made in recent weeks to sound out Leipzig’s Julian Nagelsmann before deal was struck with Thomas Tuchel
- Leicester game was tipping point and morning after spent trying to finalise successor
- Lampard shook players’ hands and thanked them for efforts under him after Leicester match
- Petr Cech involved in talking to new stars’ agents as form dipped
- Some players complained about lack of tactical instruction and not being spoken to for months
- Desire to re-sign Declan Rice annoyed his bosses
- The dressing room felt manager showed no empathy and were hurt by his public criticism
- Lampard would have walked out had he been working for any club other than Chelsea
Apparently it was only after the loss to Leicester that Abramovich agreed to appointing a different manager.
I thought that the Chelsea board had a big say in signings at Chelsea, Marina especially? The Athletic article says that she clashed with Lampard on signings.
They do but they certainly don't hoist signings on managers randomly as the theory goes. It was also widely reported Lampard had a big say in persuading Werner.
I'm not saying that Lampard didn't want those players but the board are the folk who negotiate the deals and get Roman to authorise them. They're more responsible for the spending of the money than the manager.
Tuchel is an excellent coach therefore i expect Chelsea will be soon back for the fight for the Champions League places.
It will be interesting to see what he will do with the many attacking players.
But Gilmour, Gallagher, Ampadu, Guehi and the players in the academy should look for new clubs in the summer.
It will be interesting to see what he will do with the many attacking players.
But Gilmour, Gallagher, Ampadu, Guehi and the players in the academy should look for new clubs in the summer.
Could do with updating this 3 year old list, a premier league title win would suffice.
If Gilmour gets dumped, I shall cry.
One way for Tuchel to immediately get on the wrong foot with Chelsea fans is to dump the academy players from the squad.
Guehi and Gallagher are doing well on their loans, they should get loans or moves to decent level teams.
Ampadu has stagnated with a couple of bad loans. There's still time for him though.
Too early to start watching his sack now that Frank's sack watch has come to an end?
I’ve read some strange comments on here on Tuchel’s time in Germany. A more or less short summary (only focussing on sports and it doesn’t involve rumours about his aditude or something like that): In 2009 Mainz advanced to first division. Tuchel was hired as coach of the first team just five days before season opening. He stayed there for five years. In this five years Mainz never was at the bottom three of the table. Only five teams got more points in this time periode and another team was better only because of goal difference. In 2015 he was hired at Dortmund. There were just little changes in the squad. Tuchel changed the style of play to a more possesion based. Dortmund finished with 78 points. That was the best second place in Bundesliga history and 32 (!) points more than last season. They got knocked out in the Europa League in a freak game and were beaten in the domestic cup final by penalties against Bayern. In 2016 Dortmund sold Gündogan, Hummels and Mkhitaryan. The performances decreased by ending the season third with 64 points. They still managed to win the domestic cup. The last trophy (besides supercup, which is like a pre season game) Dortmund won.
A manager who famously clashes with his bosses, and some bosses who famously clash with their managers. Should go well!
I do fear the honeymoon period under him, though. I thought they recruited brilliantly and ambitiously in the summer, but too many of those newcomers haven't bedded in or got going at all. Arguably this happens more often than not when you make a hatful of first team signings all at once. But if they all click for a bit under a new manager, as so often happens, they could race back up that table.
I do fear the honeymoon period under him, though. I thought they recruited brilliantly and ambitiously in the summer, but too many of those newcomers haven't bedded in or got going at all. Arguably this happens more often than not when you make a hatful of first team signings all at once. But if they all click for a bit under a new manager, as so often happens, they could race back up that table.
Might as well make the 'Tuchel's Sack Watch' thread already.
Lampard would have done that if requested from the board anyway?
Negotiatiors dont have to avgrde with the deal
Good manager, fiery and falls out with boards, directors etc.
Chelsea will benefit from having a good manager in charge now instead of Lampard who was unfortunately out of his depth.
It'll be a fun ride for PL fans, I expect him to compete for trophies and be sacked/resign by 2023.
Chelsea will benefit from having a good manager in charge now instead of Lampard who was unfortunately out of his depth.
It'll be a fun ride for PL fans, I expect him to compete for trophies and be sacked/resign by 2023.
Wow!! A lot of word salad telling me how to feel as a Chelsea fan. No Chelsea fan is rejoicing at Frank's sacking true but no one is deluded enough to think it wasn't the right decision. Roman doesn't care about the fans yet he did something he's never done before in almost 2 decades of ownership of the club; release a personal statement on club related issues, much less about firing someone. Frank got the big man talking, it might not seem like anything to you, but i Chelsea circles that's a major show of respect Frank had at the club. Not even Mou managed that.
Chelsea has never done long term, don't pretend its something you are not aware of. There is no evidence of it working for us. Its more of a Chelsea fan's fantasy than an expectation. Its always about the results, for the fans and for the club.
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Havertz also claimed that the exchanges with Lampard were determining in his decision in an interview. Didn't see enough of Chelsea to judge but something clearly didn't work out as Lampard intended.
he posted a video aimed at Roman Abramovich saying "Who do you think you are?" simply because he sacked Frank.He was on Eastenders once
In fairness we do have some decent YouTubers especially when you compare them to the characters Arsenal roll out especially.
He had no issues about the managerial merry go round during Sarri's reign as it brought us trophies
Hypocrite
Makes sense for Chelsea. No manager can stay there for more than 2 years anyway so Tuchel is a good choice.
I saw that, he's basically like DT with Arteta, for all intents and purposes slating him own persona with previous manager's.
Younes stuck it on him and challenged him to put his money where his mouth is.
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I usually try and remain respectful with other Chelsea fans even ones I disagree with but this guy is an absolute prat.
With all the bundesliga players they recruited, it seems lampard was there as just a caretaker. Tuchel should fit right in and I expect him to do well.
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I know every Chelsea fan wants Gilmour in the team as soon as possible but Tuchel has no connection to the Chelsea academy players (Yes the transfer ban forced Lampard to give chances to their academy players but i'm sure he would have done that anyway in some way) and he already wanted Kante & Jorginho in his team in Paris.......i would be totally shocked if Gilmour and any other player (Currently on loan or in the academy) will play a role under Tuchel.........Tuchel has surely worked with young players at Mainz, Dortmund and Paris but the Chelsea board have shown with the sacking of Lampard that they only care about trophies.
Tuchel historically has been very good at bringing youth through and putting them in ideal positions to succeed - I think you're right to flag it as something to watch but I'm not convinced that PSG's interest in Kante and Jorginho is a major factor in Tuchel's selection, especially because PSG's board are the drivers of their transfers as opposed to the coach (and this was a major reason Tuchel fell out with PSG's hierarchy).
We'll see though! Historically Tuchel has been quite good about picking players based on merit and not reputation, and personally I'd hope that'd be his approach at Chelsea in contrast to Lampard's.
Tuchel has actually worked with many young players throughout his career, even at Paris. He wanted to keep Diaby for example who had some great games under him. There are also some stories of him picking youngsters ahead of established players because they suited his system better.
Thing is, your team is really, really stacked right now. I don't think any other club in world football has such strong depth as you. It'll be hard to give all players enough game time anyway, bringing in academy products might be much more difficult compared to his previous clubs. Do you think you'll sell some of the more established players?
I really don't understand everyone thinks it's so black and white, transition/rebuild period or not there will still be bare minimum requirements and it doesn't exactly take Poirot to work out that said minimum requirements would be higher than 9th playing football that would make even Tony Pulis' eyes bleed at the half way point of the season.
Also Lampard did get a lot of time given the results were not that great in the middle, we had a run of 15 points in 14 games last season, so that's nearly half the campaign in relegation form and he never at any point was in any danger. And rightly because despite the greenness there was also some promising signs too, unfortunately the negative parts of his management became dominant which ultimately led to his downfall. He ultimately did a very good job to get us 4th given we were stripped of an elite game changer but it wasn't all gardens and roses as people are now trying to portray to suit the narrative we "sacked him at the first sign of trouble".
Aslong as there's clear progress (and no curve balls are thrown with boardroom wars, that one is a big if granted) season by season he will remain, but yes if we go into his second full season 9th half way in playing shit on a stick football with only two of the midfield/attacking pool under anything that could be passed off as form then yes he will be sacked, and rightly so!
I don't think the person you're responding to is a Chelsea fan, but I'll jump in - I hope we sell some of the older players in the squad; right now it's just too big. We were definitely hampered by the impact of COVID on the market last summer - in a normal year, Alonso, Jorginho, and Rudiger probably all would have been sold.
One thing about Chelsea in favour of the young players is that at least post-Torres there's been less input from the board on team selection generally - I think there's been a better understanding of what is or isn't a sunk cost, and that throwing good money after bad isn't a viable strategy long-term.
All this is to say I don't think our board will be meddlesome in terms of pressuring Tuchel to pick player X versus player Y - they'll be hands-off and evaluate the results as they come in. Personally I think many of our younger players are better options than their senior counterparts full stop, so it'll definitely be interesting to see the selection going forward.
I hope i'm wrong but right now i just can't see it.
James, Kante, Werner, Havertz, Ziyech, Hudson-Odoi, Gilmour & Kepa (De Gea needs a new spanish friend) in a swap deal with Fred, Lingard, Jones, James, Williams, Dalot & A.Pereira is something i would like to see as Chelsea fan
So you don't blame the board at all?
We'll see! Tuchel historically hasn't shied away from small deep-lying playmakers who have an edge defensively...
I think the lack of interest in Allegri shows the priorities of a lot of big clubs now; it's not enough just to win, you have to have a defined style and play good football. Allegri seems to be seen as unfashionable by most clubs.
What are the expectations of Chelsea supporters now that Tuchel is in with 19 matches to play and I think CL?
Top 4 is still very much within reach for many teams including Chelsea, so if they accomplish that, it wouldn't be a massive undertaking.
Top 4 is still very much within reach for many teams including Chelsea, so if they accomplish that, it wouldn't be a massive undertaking.
Top 4 ideally but failing that momentum to take into next season (akin to what Hiddink 1.0 gave us which led on to Carlo's double season).
I just want us to play better and more cohesive football - since the Leeds match we've completely fallen apart. Getting the new signings bedded in and comfortable should be prioritised as well if I'm honest; beyond that top 4 would be ideal.
Pep speaks highly of him. Not that that has to mean he'll automatically be a sucess as manager of Chelsea. Facts are though the job was too big for Lampard, he had to be replaced and Tuchel was out of a job. Looking at his record, his character, his methods etc wouldn't surprise me if he gets a tune out of those players. Whatever a great addition to the PL. It just gets better!
A good push for top 4. If he wins almost every game but doesn't get it, I won't blame him.
Reminded me of that fantastic Mainz team he had in 10/11. Had an even better season than I remembered, won their first 7 in Bundesliga and eventually finished 5th (were only 7 points off Bayern who finished 3rd).
Don't laugh Chelsea fans but Schurrle was seen as one of Germany's very best prospects in those days, was only 19 at the start of that season, he scored 14 goals in Bundesliga that season plus decent amount of assists. Lewis Holtby was on loan that season for them and was pretty good, only 20 aswell.
Don't think there's a doubt Tuchel will play the young players if they meet his standards but problem is the logjam. How does Gilmour get regular minutes with Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Havertz and Mount all around for those 3 positions. Going to have to move a few out and same for someone like Hudson Odoi.