Falling over like that was weird if he wasn't fouled or if he slipped I agree it was a freak accident if so, but the Rojo-thing I'm not so sure. What Rojo did is so unnecessary and is the type of mistakes you would fear coming from people considered bad on the ball. Actually you would see mistakes like that quite often from the sort of defenders that Smalling gets portrayed as. You don't blame Rojo for that, but a couple of misplaced long passes today is what grinds your gears. Either I'm missing a context here if you care to explain, or I just don't agree with the amount of attention you place on his weak sides. In what way was his on the ball ability a definitive problem against Fulham? Didn't stop our attacking movement and flow of our game from the back and he contributed by winning the ball on the halfway line quite a few times to start our attacks that way. And he misplaced a couple of passes. Where does his ability on the ball cost us so heavily it outshines his other contributions to the game?
12
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 34
- Clean sheets
- 8
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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No talk of him completely bossing Mitrovic, forcing Ranier to sub him off. He actually started a few attacks by winning the ball in Fulham's half. Great first half by him!
@GifLord Could we please get a gif of his pass into the stands at around 15:40?
Christ
Wow, I'm glad I went for a piss when that happened. Hard to come back from that Chris
How many times did Fulham get in behind on that inside left channel after he was subbed off?
People care more about a misplaced pass than good defending. Yes, his passing isn't the best, but even Scholes could make a wayward pass from time to time.
Although in Smallings case, it does seem like making a successful pass from time to time.
I do think hes not the biggest issue we have in terms of defence. There are others that can be gone before him but he defo can be upgraded.
I do think hes not the biggest issue we have in terms of defence. There are others that can be gone before him but he defo can be upgraded.
Exactly. Matic missed an easy pass right after it but of course theres no clip of that in his thread
Jones got turned 3/4 times as soon as Smalling went off. But lets focus on a shanked pass. People will see what they want to see.
Manchester United shouldn't have to choose between the two.
He is awful on the ball, there's no denying that.
It does seem like this thread does have a lot of 'well somebody else did this' as a defence.
Not that its wrong, but given its a Smalling thread, it is going to be pointed out. And for Smalling its not the case of it being once in a while (like DDG mistake vs Arsenal). Its pretty much the norm, which is why Jose wanted a defender to upgrade on him.
The big issue I have with Smalling is that despite playing next to Rio and Vidic at times and learning from them, and being here almost 10 years, you cant say hes really improved or taken it to the next level. And that includes being a leader. (maybe hes not cut out for it, but I really thought he would be better as a CB (although he still a strong defender)).
Not that its wrong, but given its a Smalling thread, it is going to be pointed out. And for Smalling its not the case of it being once in a while (like DDG mistake vs Arsenal). Its pretty much the norm, which is why Jose wanted a defender to upgrade on him.
The big issue I have with Smalling is that despite playing next to Rio and Vidic at times and learning from them, and being here almost 10 years, you cant say hes really improved or taken it to the next level. And that includes being a leader. (maybe hes not cut out for it, but I really thought he would be better as a CB (although he still a strong defender)).
Why is the assumption that he is the one who would be replaced in the starting 11. Jose's hunt for a ball playing cb would probably mean he is looking for someone who would compliment the cb that currently starts for him the most. Why would he bench him for cb's he trusts less than Chris
Probably cos in every season Jose has been here, he hasnt started with Smalling despite Smalling being fit (for at least two of them).
Yeah, as Sylar said Mourinho would likely try the other combinations first and hope one of them came good.
In saying that, I'd say it's at least a 50% chance (probably higher) that all the other options end up failing and we'd end up back with the new guy and Smalling again.
He is not WC but he's the best we have got
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Brief overview....
Chris Smalling will sit out Manchester United's trip to Valencia as club physios look to manage his fractured foot injury.
The 29-year-old centre back, who is in talks over a new contract at Old Trafford, suffered a hairline fracture to a bone in his left foot during United's win over Young Boys last month and had painkilling injections to play against Arsenal and Fulham.
Smalling was unable to even put on a shoe or trainer for a week owing to the swelling after suffering the injury against Young Boys.
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He played with a fractured foot?
How do doctors pass that? Surely there's some sort of insurance liability thing there?
How do doctors pass that? Surely there's some sort of insurance liability thing there?
That's pretty much only argument people have against Smalling here in regards to our other CB and keep repeating it and ignoring all other facts
Whether he starts the season or not it means absolutely nothing when the third season in a row he is the CB Mourinho starts most often and trust the most during the season. In pretty much every season except at start of the season he is playing him all the time, even during meaningless cup games he is afraid to start a game without him, even when he makes 7 or 8 changes in the team, and when Smalling is playing third game in a week. Same happened under van Gaal too. He is not the best CB in the world by any means, but he is our most trusted one and the last one to be replaced by Mourinho since he starts him the most.
Maybe he is simply keeping him fresh at the start because he knows he will use him the most and giving others a start to see who will deserve to be his partner the most?
18/19 - so far 2nd most featured outfield player in the team
17/18 - our 3rd most featured outfield player in the team
15/16 - our 2nd most featured outfield player in the team
14/15 - Our 5th most featured outfield player in the team
In 16/17 he was injured a lot.
Also, argument that he is playing a lot because he is our only injury free CB isn't valid considering he playing more than his teammates in midfield, attack and fullbacks too. Managers obviously trust him a lot, whether they are right or not is another discussion, but I think that is obvious that he is the last CB we should replace.
Edit: ha, link above is just another argument that supports all this, Mourinho is using him ahead of others even when he is injured. Yeah, I think we have few others that would Mourinho replace before him.
OrThat's pretty much only argument people have against Smalling here in regards to our other CB and keep repeating it and ignoring all other facts
Whether he starts the season or not it means absolutely nothing when the third season in a row he is the CB Mourinho starts most often and trust the most during the season. In pretty much every season except at start of the season he is playing him all the time, even during meaningless cup games he is afraid to start a game without him, even when he makes 7 or 8 changes in the team, and when Smalling is playing third game in a week. Same happened under van Gaal too. He is not the best CB in the world by any means, but he is our most trusted one and the last one to be replaced by Mourinho since he starts him the most.
Maybe he is simply keeping him fresh at the start because he knows he will use him the most and giving others a start to see who will deserve to be his partner the most?
18/19 - so far 2nd most featured outfield player in the team
17/18 - our 3rd most featured outfield player in the team
15/16 - our 2nd most featured outfield player in the team
14/15 - Our 5th most featured outfield player in the team
In 16/17 he was injured a lot.
Also, argument that he is playing a lot because he is our only injury free CB isn't valid considering he playing more than his teammates in midfield, attack and fullbacks too. Managers obviously trust him a lot, whether they are right or not is another discussion, but I think that is obvious that he is the last CB we should replace.
Edit: ha, link above is just another argument that supports all this, Mourinho is using him ahead of others even when he is injured. Yeah, I think we have few others that would Mourinho replace before him.
Jose starts others but smalling stays the fittest
If Jose really trusted him he wouldn't be trying to replace him as a starter.
Jose is trying to upgrade on him but others aren't doing it
He doesn't want a partner for smalling he wants to upgrade on smalling
He played with painkillers.
....
Yeah, I am out. Completely ignored everything and repeated the same. Classic anti Smalling poster.
Except you clearly can't read
I'm not anti smalling
If you actually read you will see that I have no issues with smalling being part of our squad
So classic Smalling fanboi eh? Can't take any constructive criticism...
And completely ignores what's in front of you
Why on earth did we play him against Fulham with a fractured foot? Seems bizarre.
We had other fit CBs - if they can’t be trusted against the worst side in the league why are they at this club.
We had other fit CBs - if they can’t be trusted against the worst side in the league why are they at this club.
So within 3 games we're back with Smalling starting like the other seasons
Because Jose seems to want our players to play while injured because bravery/recklessness is more important to him than being more smart and available overall
He's our best CB. We're probably going to sign a CB since we need one, but why would our best CB lose out on 2 spots when theres 1 new player coming in?
There's no reason. Unless we sign 2 very expensive CBs which seems unlikely given we've waited for a long time for just 1 of those to work out since Sir Alex left
Yep
I don't get why people are offended by this fact
It's what's been happening and has been happening
I think smalling is our best defender by default of being the only one who can stay fit for an extended period
But best defender doesn't equate best CB
Based on history of what Jose has done. Again it's not a slight on smalling but it's basically what's been happening.
We start a new season and smalling isn't first choice
He defaults to it due to mistakes / lack of patience or lack of fitness
If we were buying one to partner smalling then we would have seen smalling + 1 start the season for consistency, which is what our manager has talked about.
He clearly wants a ball player but at same time the suggestion is that if Jose gets his way smalling will be replaced (become a squad player \ sub)
Again those defending him may not like it but that's the way it is and Imo the way it should be
Its none of those things. Its performances. Thats why Smalling stays in. Other players do come in and get a chance at the start of the season they just dont take those chances. They make more individual mistakes than Smalling and are nowhere near as good at covering for other players as he is, so its only natural when other CBs are given the chance in the team and your team looks more vulnerable that you have to say that its not good enough and go back to who you know doesnt let you down.
If Bailly and Lindelof were playing great at the beginning of this season then Bailly doesn't come out of the team and Smalling doesnt come in. Bailly's performances were shocking and statistically some of the weakest from a CB in the premier league this season. He's still got some work to do to fix that. He's still 7th worst statistically and that doesnt even consider individual errors that didnt result in goals. So it would look even worse if that was counted too. Only Tim Ream of Fulham has played as many games at CB as Bailly this season and has statistically put in a worse level of performance.
But now Rojo's 1 start at CB is the worst statistically in the league this season so I guess Bailly can count his blessings that he's not technically the worst performing CB at the club this season.
Jones and Lindelof arent a million miles away from those 2. And then theres a pretty big leap and theres Smalling alone doing a decent job though not quite his best.
Statistically and performance wise we absolutely do have a very weak defense this season. We do absolutely need a new player. Its just that player needs to play with our only CB who is doing a decent job. Because we could pay £100 million for a CB but they wont look like a £100 million CB, no matter who they are, next to the 7th worst CB in the league this season, or the 16th or 18th worst in the league like Lindelof and Jones.
Its not that Smalling is great. He's very good but isn't likely to go to the next level as a top class CB at this point. Its that first we need to give him a chance alongside one of the best CBs around, instead of next to some of the worst in the league performance wise. If he doesnt step up a level then of course he's the next one to look for some improvement on
I can only think that Mourinho was apprehensive about using any other CB than Smalling against Mitrovic, who is very strong and quite a handful for many defenders. Jones was tossed around like a ragdoll before Herrera slid in to gift them a penalty. Bailly and Jones are also quite small and not great in the air. Rojo is actually pretty decent in the air, but he hasn't played that much lately, and thus probably didn't want to play him too much.
Mourinho has said as much that all of his defenders have weaknesses, as all players have, but in reality, Smalling is the only one that can be trusted aerially. Against Mitrovic that was probably important. When Mitrovic left the field, Smalling followed him out shortly thereafter.
Great post!
Ok but what exactly are you arguing that I'm disagreeing with? You're basically saying smalling is our best defender
I'm not disputing that
Stats or not, Jose has clearly been trying to move away from smalling as a starting CB
He hasn't been successful in doing so I'm three seasons. That doesn't make smalling a CB of United starting quality even if it makes him our best defender.
You can't say smalling is only in cos of performances when there are a number of factors also involved. You can make arguments for smalling all you want, it doesn't change that if we want to be at that next level again smalling isn't good enough. For all this talk about stats what is clear is how many games we've played and how many goals we concede cos of how bad we are at the back
Btw im not putting that all on him either before you jump to his defence again
Whats the next level?
He was our best CB in a season where we finished 2nd not even a year ago.
To win the league instead of City? To win the champions league?
Yeah probably not good enough. To get back to being the 2nd best team in the league? Well thats already been proven that hes good enough
Absolutely unbelievable that he was played against Fulham. Arsenal I can kind of understand, but against the worst team in the league?
He wants an upgrade on all our defenders. But unless we sign two (and they both work out), one of our current defenders are going to have to play. He'll give the others the opportunity, but from what we've seen over the last few years it's more than likely going to end up being Smalling and the new guy. So it's not really accurate to say that he's trying to upgrade on Smalling in particular. On the other hand, it's also not accurate to say that he's actively looking for somebody to partner Smalling. All of them would get the opportunity, but Smalling is the most likely to ultimately win that spot.
The last few months of last season we had them all fit for a while. Every match we just played Smalling plus another and they rotated around him. It's not just about fitness - it's about reliability in pretty much all aspects.
#govegan
The next level right is at least challenging. But again, youre making an argument for something to show your love for Smalling (which I get) but is missing the point of what im saying:
-Do I think hes our best defender? Sure.
-Do I think hes a good leader? No
-Do I think hes a good passer of the ball? No
-Do I think we need to upgrade on him (as well as our other defenders) to challenge for the league- of course.
He was our best defender when we came second sounds great, but we all watched the matches. Most of our clean sheets came from DDG not due to our defence being rock solid with him at the heart of it. And we challenged for the league last season the same as we have challenged this season.
Possibly but again, I have a feeling (based on the evidence weve seen when a new season starts) that Jose would not want to start with Smalling (but again by default he does).
If we sign a defender who is a leader (lets say Godin as an example) and the player is suited as a RCB, then we have three options:
-Move that new signing to LCB to accommodate Smalling
or
-Move Smalling to LCB (where he has shown hes not capable)
or
-Play somebody who is better suited for LCB to be lead by the new signing.
And then when it came to the new season, he didnt start Smalling. He started Bailly/Lindelof and started Smalling on the bench.
I dont get why this is being disputed. The end of last season look who our CB options were:
-Lindelof (who was in and out the team)
-Bailly (he didnt play at all cos he wasnt going WC apparently)
-Jones (going to the WC)
Rojo (wasnt he injured?)
Again, this may seem like im posting for the sake of bashing Smalling. im not, I have no issues with him as a squad player.
But all im saying is that all evidence weve seen so far is that Smalling becomes our defender by default (whether its others arent good enough, Smalling is the only one that stays fit, and yes, even sometimes by performances).
However our current manager clearly doesnt seem him as good enough to take United to the next level.
If Jose goes end of the season and we bring an attacking manager in, it will be interesting to see what happens with Smalling, given the (correct) justification of why he didnt go to the world cup with England (and why hes not in Southgates plans)
I like Smalling, I think he's our best CB. Most reliable either way. But what I most like are that "fans" trash him because he's not good with the ball. Keep your analyzing skills up, lads!
You keep saying I jump at the defense of Smalling or love him but I'm just giving you reasonable logic that anyone could apply. If I "loved" him surely I'd be saying he's the best CB in the league and that we can for sure win the league with him?
Instead I'm saying he probably isnt good enough for us to win major titles against this City side, or in the champions league. Because I'm being honest and rational. Are you? I dont think so. Not if you keep saying that shit.
This is where the contradiction comes from
You say we need to give him a chance with the best CB but also admit we won't win the league with him.
Forget winning the league
I just don't think we will challenge with him.
And keep saying 'that shit'? Basically nothing ive said above is incorrect
He hasn't started any of the seasons under Jose
Jose has consistently tried to upgrade him
He's not a good passer of the ball
He is a good defender but not a good CB for a team that wants to challenge
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