City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

[buckooo1978]

Exhibit A

Graham Wallace to Simon Pearce stating via email that the money coming from Abu Dhabi needs to be shown coming from multiple partners instead of one lump sum:

'

Same request again:

Here we have straight up collusion and accounting fruad:

And here a plea to be cleaner so they don't get caught:

interesting to see Sorriano cc'd

there's no way Pep was oblivious to this

 

[crossy1686]

I think it'll be closer to six years than six months

but I know nothing

I hear you, but Derby didn’t take that long and they had similar allegations

 

[crossy1686]

interesting to see Sorriano cc'd

there's no way Pep was oblivious to this

When your club is the same size as Villarreal (his words) and then goes on to spend £1b on fullbacks, you’re either fecking stupid or playing dumb to avoid litigation.

 

[Santos J]

I hear you, but Derby didn’t take that long and they had similar allegations

Derby took about a year and half for 2 charges

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Exhibit A

Graham Wallace to Simon Pearce stating via email that the money coming from Abu Dhabi needs to be shown coming from multiple partners instead of one lump sum:

'

Same request again:

Here we have straight up collusion and accounting fruad:

And here a plea to be cleaner so they don't get caught:

Wait are these actual emails that were leaked? Whats the credibility?

 

[crossy1686]

Derby took about a year and half for 2 charges

Because of an appeal

 

[crossy1686]

Wait are these actual emails that were leaked? Whats the credibility?

These emails are from when they got their inboxes hacked by that kid

 

[Tarrou]

Wait are these actual emails that were leaked? Whats the credibility?

Yeah, that is what prompted the investigation. Der Spiegel is the goto foreign news agency that British journalists use to if they want a story out that they can't put out themselves for fear of being sued.

 

[Santos J]

Because of an appeal

It still took 8 months for the initial decision

 

[crossy1686]

It still took 8 months for the initial decision

Yeah I know, which is why I think this will get resolved in around that time frame, and then they’ll be an appeal from either side.

To be clear, I think it won’t take years like others have said, that’s all I meant.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

interesting to see Sorriano cc'd

there's no way Pep was oblivious to this

Yellow lapel time.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

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Pogba

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

‘We cheated because we had to cheat to compete with the clubs that didn’t cheat’

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City Defence Force grieves different.

Lance Armstrong would like to have his excuses back.

 

[HarryP]

You only have to look at the responses from their former players and media mouthpieces to realise how much shit they are in. Pure jittery whataboutery from Mills on the radio yesterday (usually he's someone who speaks with a massive degree of hubris and arrogance) and now Kompany avoiding all the substance and giving off conspiracy theory vibes. Yeah, they're screwed.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/64563546

 

[arnie_ni]

I'd love to see the stats for this country. I think the viewing figures for City when they're not playing one of the big boys would be comical. They're boring and so little people.

Defo. They can't even fill their own ground.
If their own fans don't watch them who else would

 

[Tarrou]

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Pogba

feels impossible to imagine them getting away with it when you see these smoking guns

they entire league will become a mockery if they get off with a fine and it's vital that doesn't happen for the integrity of the sport

 

[arnie_ni]

With regard to City players (De Bruyne was mentioned specifically above, as an example) or managers having committed possible tax offences - I doubt that.

The Mancini business apparently amounted to them paying him a "second salary" in some sort of "consultant" capacity - not as an actual manager/coach (for one of their feeder teams). For players, they've probably dressed up the "second" salary as something similarly nebulous ("ambassador" or whatever). But they haven't been stupid enough to hand out "brown envelopes" to the individuals in question: in other words, these "bonus" arrangements have probably been above board with regard to taxes (as in: the money has been reported according to the rules).

The problem is (obviously) that none of this has been transparent/known to the PL.

You're probably correct but let's not forget a whole host of players managers have be cited for tax issues. Messi Ronaldo and Jose to name a few.

 

[Cloud7]

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Lord Pannick.

Now that's a name

 

[Bepi]

As a trained law consultant with Calciopoli having been the golden case study all along the degree years for what NOT to do while things like this emerge, I can tell you all a couple of things:

1) the “quick” sporting justice conclusions / recommendations / deliberations, based upon the herd rage or “sentimento popolare” asking for integrity, fairnes, etc. etc., will much probably NOT stand in ordinary courts in the coming years. First Calciopoli surprise: ALL the people destroyed by the 2006 FIGC integrity committee led by Guido Rossi, former Inter board member (who immediately declared he was installed to protect the “onesti” aka the “honest”), were then cleared and acquitted one after one, even Moggi The Devil himself in 2015: https://www.goal.com/en/news/ex-juventus-chief-moggi-a-free-man-following-final/bltab9f23c94ca3c73d … “Moggi was cleared of all these offences”);

2) The “onesti” teams Inter/Milan were proved in ordinary courts to be doing the exact same, legal practices (Facchetti for Inter, Meani for Milan), nonethless Inter was awarded the infamous “scudetto di cartone” by their own former Guido Rossi (the one scudetto Mourinho detested as their own coach because “not won on the pitch but in the office”) and PM Berlusconi’s Milan got an enough lenient punishment to carry on and win the Champions League in the following year 2007.

3) Italian football entered a decline as a whole, also as an international force because of the stain, until becoming the mess it is now with even a new Calciopoli in 2023 now led by Napoli and Neapolitans prosecutors/judges, which will further halve the value of Italian football and probably destroy the most important team for good (which was and still is the main intent from the beginning, in spite of all the claims about integrity, fairness, etc.).

Now, for what I see with a trained law consultant eye from my shores, it is being City thrown under the bus by the FA / PL to protect themselves by the scrutiny of your Government… which usually does not bode well for the subject trying to protect themselves because the offended parties will defend themselves in the ordinary courts and much more would probably emerge, involving many other clubs.

What is the prospective solution for football, when local clubs outgrow their local leagues, is the main question for integrity, fairness, etc. …… other sports did with creating different, private leagues (most recently, the basket EuroLeague) in order to have the big boys fighting themselves without restraint, leaving or not their local leagues.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

You're probably correct but let's not forget a whole host of players managers have be cited for tax issues. Messi Ronaldo and Jose to name a few.

Oh, yes: individually they could be guilty of all sorts of tax related offences for all I know. However, I doubt that City have systematically paid off players/coaches in a way that would be of interest to the tax man as such (as something related to the club, I mean).

 

[Rooney in Paris]

You only have to look at the responses from their former players and media mouthpieces to realise how much shit they are in. Pure jittery whataboutery from Mills on the radio yesterday (usually he's someone who speaks with a massive degree of hubris and arrogance) and now Kompany avoiding all the substance and giving off conspiracy theory vibes. Yeah, they're screwed.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/64563546

His interview sounds like a less eloquent post by @adexkola

 

[Tony247]

Not following the development in detail.

Question, is there a money laundering accusation along with FFP or just FFP?

Thanks.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Yeah, that is what prompted the investigation. Der Spiegel is the goto foreign news agency that British journalists use to if they want a story out that they can't put out themselves for fear of being sued.

These emails are from when they got their inboxes hacked by that kid

Got it.

Their army of lawyers will still find a way to dismiss these.

 

[FeedTheGoat]

What are theses teams to do with what City and PSG have done ? So PSG and City spending like crazy to kill every competition have something to do with this teams winning ?

It like trying to prove there is martians on the moon by saying there is water on Mars ! No logic at all.

But the original poster didn't ask if City or PSG have spent like crazy to try and kill the competition. Of course they have, no one is disputing that. But the quote I was responding to was if whether the competition in the two leagues have gotten better or worse after the two takeovers in practice. Considering both leagues show an increase in the number of different winners in the decade after the respective takeovers compared to the immediate decade preceeding them, it is hard to argue the two leagues have become less competetive in practicality in my opinion.

 

[Suv666]

Lord Pannick.

Now that's a name

Guess they’ve hit the Pannick button

 

[Resch]

It looks like a system practiced over years. Just paying some money and a point reduction next year should not be considered. They build a European powerhouse based on cheating, forced the PL-teams into a financial war and influenced the development of football in England and Europe, not in a good way. It is time to set a signal, take their titles and send them to amateur-football and compensation payments for every year they cheated. Realistic punishment? No, because they know how to spend their money to influence decisions.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

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[Member 125398]

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I'm sure it's a possibility but you'd think court proceedings would be much more complex than a PL tribunal.

 

[mctrials23]

If you want to change the rules then try and change the rules. You can't use "the rules aren't fair" as an excuse after you have ignored them.

 

[SuperiorXI]

If you want to change the rules then try and change the rules. You can't use "the rules aren't fair" as an excuse after you have ignored them.

Exactly. The defence of "it's not fair" just doesn't cut it. It's like children in the playground. It's no type of valid argument and it just shows where the city fans heads are at. Even the conspiracy theories are coming out about how there are cartels etc.

The only cartel is looking like city right now.

 

[Bosws87]

Quite funny seeing all these people now quoting these emails which have been sat online for months and nobody cared then

 

[Fortitude]

Have you seen the articles coming out in their support? You can guarantee those feckers are worried.

There’s so much more to play out - the pressure City will be exerting on those whose palms they’ve greased goes without saying. But that threat just looming… what a soap opera!

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

As a trained law consultant with Calciopoli having been the golden case study all along the degree years for what NOT to do while things like this emerge, I can tell you all a couple of things:

1) the “quick” sporting justice conclusions / recommendations / deliberations, based upon the herd rage or “sentimento popolare” asking for integrity, fairnes, etc. etc., will much probably NOT stand in ordinary courts in the coming years. First Calciopoli surprise: ALL the people destroyed by the 2006 FIGC integrity committee led by Guido Rossi, former Inter board member (who immediately declared he was installed to protect the “onesti” aka the “honest”), were then cleared and acquitted one after one, even Moggi The Devil himself in 2015: https://www.goal.com/en/news/ex-juventus-chief-moggi-a-free-man-following-final/bltab9f23c94ca3c73d … “Moggi was cleared of all these offences”);

2) The “onesti” teams Inter/Milan were proved in ordinary courts to be doing the exact same, legal practices (Facchetti for Inter, Meani for Milan), nonethless Inter was awarded the infamous “scudetto di cartone” by their own former Guido Rossi (the one scudetto Mourinho detested as their own coach because “not won on the pitch but in the office”) and PM Berlusconi’s Milan got an enough lenient punishment to carry on and win the Champions League in the following year 2007.

3) Italian football entered a decline as a whole, also as an international force because of the stain, until becoming the mess it is now with even a new Calciopoli in 2023 now led by Napoli and Neapolitans prosecutors/judges, which will further halve the value of Italian football and probably destroy the most important team for good (which was and still is the main intent from the beginning, in spite of all the claims about integrity, fairness, etc.).

Now, for what I see with a trained law consultant eye from my shores, it is being City thrown under the bus by the FA / PL to protect themselves by the scrutiny of your Government… which usually does not bode well for the subject trying to protect themselves because the offended parties will defend themselves in the ordinary courts and much more would probably emerge, involving many other clubs.

What is the prospective solution for football, when local clubs outgrow their local leagues, is the main question for integrity, fairness, etc. …… other sports did with creating different, private leagues (most recently, the basket EuroLeague) in order to have the big boys fighting themselves without restraint, leaving or not their local leagues.

What hokum.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Quite funny seeing all these people now quoting these emails which have been sat online for months and nobody cared then

Yes, we all have access to all information all the time.

 

[sniff99]

Quite funny seeing all these people now quoting these emails which have been sat online for months and nobody cared then

They may have been online for months but its the first time I've seen them, which I assume is the same for a lot of people.

 

[Redfrog]

But the original poster didn't ask if City or PSG have spent like crazy to try and kill the competition. Of course they have, no one is disputing that. But the quote I was responding to was if whether the competition in the two leagues have gotten better or worse after the two takeovers in practice. Considering both leagues show an increase in the number of different winners in the decade after the respective takeovers compared to the immediate decade preceeding them, it is hard to argue the two leagues have become less competetive in practicality in my opinion.

More winners in England is due to the fall of United after our cheat code retired.
If you look at the average point total you need now to win the league, it’s fair to say that the league is less competitive.
City having two A teams and PSG having Messi, Neymar, Mbappé is a joke to be honest.

 

[adexkola]

City having two A teams and PSG having Messi, Neymar, Mbappé is a joke to be honest.

1. City "having 2 A teams" will never not be funny

2. Barcelona had (a better) Messi, Neymar and Suarez... Was it a problem for the game then?

 

[crossy1686]

Got it.

Their army of lawyers will still find a way to dismiss these.

They got away with these against UEFA because there's statute of limitations on the time you can prosecute, which is about 6 years I think. However with the PL that doesn't hold up as the statute of limitations is null and void if you are found to be purposefully withholding or hiding documentation with the aim to avoiding prosecution.

 

[crossy1686]

feels impossible to imagine them getting away with it when you see these smoking guns

they entire league will become a mockery if they get off with a fine and it's vital that doesn't happen for the integrity of the sport

The best thing is, UEFA weren't allowed to use these emails against them in their case, but the PL can.

 

[adexkola]

If City get relegated tomorrow the PL viewership numbers won't suffer at all other than the drop due to Halaand fans jumping to his next team.

That applies for any club in the PL.