FireballXL5
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- May 9, 2015
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Yeah, he's an idiot.
As usual. A case of moving his lips before he engaged his brain. Something he is prone to do in order to try and make himself sound clever.Tweet
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The UK certainly has been able to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions. Some as a result of a big move to wind power. But a significant amount of that is due to 'sub-contracting lots of its manufacturing to countries like China. As has been mentioned, that over seas manufacturing really ought to be counted against the country that has done that.They are committed to that already it's just on a different timeline because they're not a completely service based economy like we are. They've invested far more than the EU for instance in solar and wind and they do more ecological grants to the third world than anyone else too.
From what i've read China even at their projected 2030 peak emissions will be far below the US in per capita emissions so i find the attention a bit misplaced.
Whether it's Saudi, Canada, or China those countries obviously need a longer transition. The fact we're hearing complaints that their 2060 timeline is a decade too long tells you the key players aren't being pragmatic. Why? Because they'd rather countries with a growing footprint take the hit rather than themselves as if it's nothing to do with them.
The UK has been able to reduce it's footprint quite drastically and with barely a sacrifice made but that won't be the story for most countries.
Yes indeed. And the foreign leaders attending COP 26 are I am sure quite aware of this. Macron included.He's also a fecking liar and a hypocrite.
Oil and gas donors gave over £400k to Tories before North Sea decision
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ve-over-400k-tories-before-north-sea-decision
Yup which is why we're fecked I'm not optimistic at all. Biden may want to but I'm not sure the US has the political will to really meet their goals.If what you say is true, then the world is going to ''hell in a hand cart' ...China included!
The Chinese have lifted millions of their people out of abject poverty and you can understand their wish to do so for many more of their citizens, but are they saying we are going to continue to build many coal fired power stations, to achieve this, because if so, then it wouldn't matter if the Western countries went back to the stone age, the end would still be the same?
It would appear that the Chinese have to stop the present programme of building such stations, whatever price they demand from other countries, but it alone will not make up for the malign effects of such coal-powered power stations. The US too also has to address serious issues in the same manner. If these two giants do not reign in their polluting, it matters little what everyone else does.
TBH this doesn't seem logical, what about all the coal-fired plants already operating, so they stop adding to them in 2025, are there plans to close any? What will they use to power the industrialization they need thereafter?If i recall China is due to increase coal plants through to 2025 then they're targeting a reduction in their energy mix towards cleaner energy thereafter. Their emissions are due to plateau around the end of the decade, IF the US has met it's targets then China and the US per capita will be about equal in 2030.
The US, EU, Japan, and India would never accept China as world leader no matter what it does on climate- that's a massive chunk of world GDP and population.If China wants to be the new world leader then this is the issue on which to make its claim. Would it not then become, almost at a stroke, the recognised world leader.
They would have no choice, actions speak louder than words. After this COP 26 is over and the roll out of "we must do this and we must do that" ... but actually very little will get done, is recognised, then finally the penny will drop within many countries/peoples, that words are simply that, words!The US, EU, Japan, and India would never accept China as world leader no matter what it does on climate- that's a massive chunk of world GDP and population.
They're constantly closing older coal plants it's just they're building newer 'cleaner'ones as well (away from the SE and more north). They can't go renewable overnight despite their investments so they have a mix as the short term solution until they tail off.TBH this doesn't seem logical, what about all the coal-fired plants already operating, so they stop adding to them in 2025, are there plans to close any? What will they use to power the industrialization they need thereafter?
Right now China has the largest emissions of Co2, almost twice as much as the US, they are top of the league and have to make the biggest saving...and do it now!
If they do, then no country in the world (including the US) can argue against reducing their own emissions in a similar manner. If China wants to be the new world leader then this is the issue on which to make its claim. Would it not then become, almost at a stroke, the recognised world leader.
Yes of course it is, but if you are waiting for everyone in the world to become even half knowledgeable on such matters and understand then the worst will have already happened.It's very simplistic to look at a big number and not inspect the per capita basis to be honest.
By engaging with China on its terms I think the co2 debate needs to take into account outsourced co2 (china makes a product for a European audience but all he co2 of manufacture is attributed to China)... co2 on a per capita basis rather than just total numbersThank you for your response.
That is very interesting about China pushing back against American influence, isn't that a bit like saying "if you don't play with my ball, we are not playing"?
For the rest of the world, the West in particular, engaging China on their terms is something highly unlikely, at least in the short term, say for half a century or so; but by then of course China will have become the dominant world force/economy and it can do what it likes, but also by then if they have not engaged in the process then the planet's climate will have ' gone to hell in a hand cart' and the resulting chaos will include for China as well!
If China's long term plan is to be the dominant force/economy etc. on the planet by the next century, then surely they will want a planet capable of maintaining life and living standards that will allow their economy to flourish?
I suppose you could envisage that China is 'hanging back for bets', or trying to fix the odds in their favour, but its a high risk game, especially if Trump or someone similar gets back into power in the US.
God knows what Putin is up to, but its his rationale that might in the end prove the downfall of a successful worldwide Climate Change strategy/outcome and it appears no one, certainly not Europe, can or will attempt, to apply pressure to him.
Isn't that because being a major world manufacturing centre, is exactly what China has set itself up to do, to capture that kind of trading? The emissions are under Chinese control, but I suppose they could refuse to take orders from Europe?By engaging with China on its terms I think the co2 debate needs to take into account outsourced co2 (china makes a product for a European audience but all he co2 of manufacture is attributed to China)... co2 on a per capita basis rather than just total numbers
China though far from perfect is doing a lot more than some nations and probably wants the terms of reference to be taking these things into account rather than to turn up and be demonised
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And in essence, he is correct.... apart from one thing. Man made climate change has absolutely nothing to do with mother nature.Tweet
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Mother nature can't give a single feck. Will wipe us out one way or another, will rebalance itself and biodiversity will flourish again with new forms of life. I am not sad at all on that regards. Species comes and goes with or without extinctions. The only think that worries me on the fecked up actions that we are doing is the legacy that we will leave to the next generations which includes my niece and nephews, kids and grandkids of my friends and maybe mine if i ever have them. The planet will be fine no matter what as long celullar life survives, and fortunately, climate change will not jeopardize this. We will be a tiny spec in the history of this planet and we will die as clever greedy monkeys.And in essence, he is correct.... apart from one thing. Man made climate change has absolutely nothing to do with mother nature.
She gave humanity a truly perfect and stunningly beautiful planet.
Everything in balance and a planet perfectly sustainable.
Humanity and its inherent greed, as well as its complete inability to control its numbers has changed and damaged our planet to such an extent that mother nature is now completely overwhelmed.
My primary concern, like you is for my grandchildren and what lies ahead for their future.Mother nature can't give a single feck. Will wipe us out one way or another, will rebalance itself and biodiversity will flourish again with new forms of life. I am not sad at all on that regards. Species comes and goes with or without extinctions. The only think that worries me on the fecked up actions that we are doing is the legacy that we will leave to the next generations which includes my niece and nephews, kids and grandkids of my friends and maybe mine if i ever have them. The planet will be fine no matter what as long celullar life survives, and fortunately, climate change will not jeopardize this. We will be a tiny spec in the history of this planet and we will die as clever greedy monkeys.
Not per capita though? Which is how we should compares countries. The US is over double China.TBH this doesn't seem logical, what about all the coal-fired plants already operating, so they stop adding to them in 2025, are there plans to close any? What will they use to power the industrialization they need thereafter?
Right now China has the largest emissions of Co2, almost twice as much as the US, they are top of the league and have to make the biggest saving...and do it now!
If they do, then no country in the world (including the US) can argue against reducing their own emissions in a similar manner. If China wants to be the new world leader then this is the issue on which to make its claim. Would it not then become, almost at a stroke, the recognised world leader.
That is not the issue though is it? The emissions must stop, China must stop, everybody must stop, or the world is going to hell in a hand cart... or so they tell us. If its down to comparing who can 'magic' their figures the best.... then I am afraid the devil is already fashioning the hand cart!Not per capita though? Which is how we should compares countries. The US is over double China.
Using per capita isn't magic'ing the numbers though, it's just the correct and sensible way to look at the problemThat is not the issue though is it? The emissions must stop, China must stop, everybody must stop, or the world is going to hell in a hand cart... or so they tell us. If its down to comparing who can 'magic' their figures the best.... then I am afraid the devil is already fashioning the hand cart!
I understand what you are saying but this is not a 'piss*** contest'....or is it?Using per capita isn't magic'ing the numbers though, it's just the correct and sensible way to look at the problem
your post made it sound like China are mostly responsible for what needs to change, when in fact if every western country reduced emissions to the same per capita rate as China - we'd be smashing the most optimistic of targets
As said above, what it matters is emisions per capita and by relevant countries (population), US, Russia, Canada and Japan are way ahead than china. But not only that. A considerable portion of china's CO2 emisions are as a result of western consumerism of products fabricated in china.I understand what you are saying but this is not a 'piss*** contest'....or is it?
China is the largest emitter of C02 by a long way. Every country can make a case for doing less or not damaging their economy, etc. but are we not in the 'last chance saloon'; 'rearranging the desk chairs on the titanic'; 'snoozing and loosing'; 'one minute to midnight on the doomsday clock' etc?
C02 Emissions, or so Greta tells us have to be cut ...now!
Is she just a delusional young person (wont say child because she is now 18) or just doing an opposite impression to Corporal Jones, with a cry of "do panic, do panic"?
This surely is not about making China look good or for that matter the West look bad, it is what it is a major dilemma if not the major dilemma for the next half century... after that its about how does mankind escape this planet .... calling Capt Kirk and crew!
And as the chinese get wealthier, they will have more CO2 emissions as well. Bigger houses, larger electricity and heat consumption, more cars, more consumption etc. I think when looking at the world situation, simply going beyond pr. capita is pretty important when you think about what can realistically make any real difference at all.As said above, what it matters is emisions per capita and by relevant countries (population), US, Russia, Canada and Japan are way ahead than china. But not only that. A considerable portion of china's CO2 emisions are as a result of western consumerism of products fabricated in china.
That you don't know becase china is the country that is investing the most in renewables. Also, the wealthier they get, the more manfacturing jobs they will lose and they will go to another country (already happening). On CO2 emissions, China will take a similar approach to Europe than US, that had been done a terrible job. specially being the wealthier and more technologically advanced country in the worldAnd as the chinese get wealthier, they will have more CO2 emissions as well. Bigger houses, larger electricity and heat consumption, more cars, more consumption etc. I think when looking at the world situation, simply going beyond pr. capita is pretty important when you think about what can realistically make any real difference at all.
I'll bet you 10 quid that their CO2 emissions will go up.That you don't know becase china is the country that is investing the most in renewables. Also, the wealthier they get, the more manfacturing jobs they will lose and they will go to another country (already happening). On CO2 emissions, China will take a similar approach to Europe than US, that had been done a terrible job. specially being the wealthier and more technologically advanced country in the world
China's emissions are twice the US and well above everyone else's they have to cutback the most, and if necessary tell the west to manufacture its own goods. Per capita means nothing as far as emissions are concerned, the damage they do is not dependent on such matters its where they came from.As said above, what it matters is emisions per capita and by relevant countries (population), US, Russia, Canada and Japan are way ahead than china. But not only that. A considerable portion of china's CO2 emisions are as a result of western consumerism of products fabricated in china.
Have you looked at a map? Have you looked at the population of both countries? Or are you being deliberately dim?China's emissions are twice the US and well above everyone else's they have to cutback the most, and if necessary tell the west to manufacture its own goods. Per capita means nothing as far as emissions are concerned, the damage they do is not dependent on such matters its where they came from.
If China was serious about things and had a good case to make, they would have attended the COP26 event.
Not as much as perhaps your good self!Or are you being deliberately dim?
None of this is going to happen though. Not the US either. At least not enough to reach net zero.Not as much as perhaps your good self!
Every country in the world has got its good excuses, its trade offs, etc. the world has to cut emissions and China has to cut most because it produces the most, that is the only reason!
Sorry, but I don't think "Our population is four times yours" is an excuse. It's a simple mathematical truth.Not as much as perhaps your good self!
Every country in the world has got its good excuses, its trade offs, etc. the world has to cut emissions and China has to cut most because it produces the most, that is the only reason!
Nothing whatsoever to do with population size, its to do with how much C02 is emitted and who is the biggest offended, and its China by a long way. If the Chinese don't cut their emissions (whatever their reasoning its immaterial to the outcome) then there is not much anyone else can do to save the planet hence its all down to the Chinese Government, whether they like it or not, or whether anybody else likes it or not, they hold the key to everything (No 42 according to 'hitch-hikers guide...).Sorry, but I don't think "Our population is four times yours" is an excuse. It's a simple mathematical truth.
If China was serious about things then they'd partition into four independent countries. Then suddenly they'd be twice as good as the US on emissions even though nothing has changed, because that is how it works.China's emissions are twice the US and well above everyone else's they have to cutback the most, and if necessary tell the west to manufacture its own goods. Per capita means nothing as far as emissions are concerned, the damage they do is not dependent on such matters its where they came from.
If China was serious about things and had a good case to make, they would have attended the COP26 event.
The Chinese Government would still be controlling the emissions!If China was serious about things then they'd partition into four independent countries. Then suddenly they'd be twice as good as the US on emissions even though nothing has changed, because that is how it works.
It would be four governments.The Chinese Government would still be controlling the emissions!
It really has nothing to do with 'looking good' (as Boris will find out after COP26) and being absent from the decision making process is not how anything works.
Whether they like it or not the Chinese are on their own in belching out the most C02 S**t and they have to stop.