Club Ownership | INEOS responsible for the football side

Revan

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I bet under Ratclifre we would've been one of the first clubs to furlough staff during COVID.

What next? Convert the disabled section into a brand new set of corporate boxes under the guise of setting new high standards?
United ain't a charity. Cutting costs where a company is having financial trouble is something that every well-run company does. I expect layoffs to happen soon. I think this work from office policy is a soft layoff in some way, cause some people will be unwilling/unable to work from office.

It sucks for people affected, it really sucks. But United by all accounts has massively overhired and the entire company culture is bad. You need to make very strong unpopular decisions.
 

padzilla

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Thank God the billionaire Brexit-loving tax dodger is focusing on returning the working conditions to the office back to the 90s, could he perhaps look at the footballing side of the business too?
 

roseguy64

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Ending WFH in less than a month when there's no space for them to work in the office? Can only mean one thing. Would love to be a fly on the wall to see what happens on June 1 if they don't attempt to retrofit the offices to have more people in them considering the space was reduced.
 

Escobar

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Good decision, all these entitled home office people need to show presence, increase team spirit and contribute beyond their tasks. You get privileges if the circumstances are right
 

diarm

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We've spent 10 years talking about how the whole organisation is rotten from the top down, and then when someone comes in and starts doing something about all the bits that aren't working, we mock and belittle them for it.
 

Seveneric

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Somehow, I doubt people working from home is responsible for United's current mess. But then similar to his fellow billionaire's (Alan Sugar) rant against WFH, it's probably not about productivity, but protecting his own selfish interests and being old fashioned.
If only we had a time where large numbers of people are forced to work from home and see if productivity dropped.
If productivity suffered, I'd think that has more to do with the fact that in conjunction with working from home, people were also going through a worldwide, life-altering event.
 

Tom Van Persie

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We've spent 10 years talking about how the whole organisation is rotten from the top down, and then when someone comes in and starts doing something about all the bits that aren't working, we mock and belittle them for it.
So true. :lol:
 

Lash

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Somehow, I doubt people working from home is responsible for United's current mess. But then similar to his fellow billionaire's (Alan Sugar) rant against WFH, it's probably not about productivity, but protecting his own selfish interests.

If productivity suffered, I'd think that has more to do with the fact that in conjunction with working from home, people were also going through a worldwide, life-altering event.
Spoiler alert - it didn't suffer. That's why most companies over expanded and now are blaming people not being in the office as to why they're not as profitable. Not the ridiculous linear targets they set and will not hit.
 

Lash

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We've spent 10 years talking about how the whole organisation is rotten from the top down, and then when someone comes in and starts doing something about all the bits that aren't working, we mock and belittle them for it.
Yeah, we've all been concerned with the wfh policy and tidiness of the IT dept. Lost count of the threads.
 

Teja

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I wonder what the standard practice is for these things at football clubs. I'm a software engineer and a hybrid model works quite well for me and will probably quit if forced to come in five days a week. Other than just some weird boomer suit attitude, having some time for collaboration with everyone in the office and other times at home so you don't have to deal with the commute is a reasonable trade-off. I still don't quite believe in full remote but hybrid works very well.

If productivity suffered, I'd think that has more to do with the fact that in conjunction with working from home, people were also going through a worldwide, life-altering event.
It did not. A lot of people went in with agendas to prove that productivity suffered but came away with no it didn't and employees are happier as a result.
 

Lash

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What did you think rotten from the top down means?
It means focussing on the bottom level at this point is utterly ridiculous. It's not even based on anything apart from, "that's how we do it at INEOs". Also the top level won't be in the office anyway, they'll be fecking off to Monaco when they feel like it.
 

Roane

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It means focussing on the bottom level at this point is utterly ridiculous. It's not even based on anything apart from, "that's how we do it at INEOs". Also the top level won't be in the office anyway, they'll be fecking off to Monaco when they feel like it.
Whilst I don't know the inner workings of this decision, I'm not sure it's "wrong" on the face of it.

What I mean is we have inklings of a rotten culture at UTD albeit the players is what we know most about due to press etc.

However it could just be a sort of Jordan Peterson "clean your room" type of decision. In which case I'm all for it.

Could be wrong it's just Jim being a cnuts. But things at UTD have been lax for a while so maybe it's beginning of sorting out the culture.
 

Tom Van Persie

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It means focussing on the bottom level at this point is utterly ridiculous. It's not even based on anything apart from, "that's how we do it at INEOs". Also the top level won't be in the office anyway, they'll be fecking off to Monaco when they feel like it.
INEOS have done whole audit of the club and have identified areas where we need to improve and change. Clearly the WFH policy was one that they felt had a negative impact and needed to change. They also looked at how many employees we have compared to other top clubs and want to cut that down. The club has been run like shit for too long. We're long overdue a shake up from top to bottom. I welcome anything that improves us as a club.
 

diarm

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It means focussing on the bottom level at this point is utterly ridiculous. It's not even based on anything apart from, "that's how we do it at INEOs". Also the top level won't be in the office anyway, they'll be fecking off to Monaco when they feel like it.
How much experience do you have in changing the culture of massive, corporate organisations?

It's hardly focussing on the bottom when several of the highest profile executives at the club have already left their roles in the short time Ineos have been here.
 

Tom Van Persie

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Whilst I don't know the inner workings of this decision, I'm not sure it's "wrong" on the face of it.

What I mean is we have inklings of a rotten culture at UTD albeit the players is what we know most about due to press etc.

However it could just be a sort of Jordan Peterson "clean your room" type of decision. In which case I'm all for it.

Could be wrong it's just Jim being a cnuts. But things at UTD have been lax for a while so maybe it's beginning of sorting out the culture.
Maybe he is a ruthless cnut but he's not scared to make the necessary changes to improve us. The culture at the club has been shite for the last decade. We've become a bloated club with no unity and direction. Never would've happened under SAF and Gill.

The fact we have 400 more employees than some of the other top clubs doesn't get talked about enough. But that's what happens when you have absentee owners and a chief executive that burned through money.
 

fe33er

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I don’t agree with ending hybrid working at all, not sure this will help anything.
Whys it fecking matter to you what the office staff working arrangements are? Its bizarre that people criticise others on how to run their business.
 

Gavinb33

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It means focussing on the bottom level at this point is utterly ridiculous. It's not even based on anything apart from, "that's how we do it at INEOs". Also the top level won't be in the office anyway, they'll be fecking off to Monaco when they feel like it.
Pretty sure Dan Ashworth and Omar Berrada will be based in Manchester they'll be running the business.

Whilst I dont agree with it, unless it's in your contract wfh is at the employers discretion.
 

Acquire Me

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We've spent 10 years talking about how the whole organisation is rotten from the top down, and then when someone comes in and starts doing something about all the bits that aren't working, we mock and belittle them for it.
It’s true. But who cares, they will go on with this process and I am behind them. The house needs to be cleaned up.
 

Oldyella

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We've spent 10 years talking about how the whole organisation is rotten from the top down, and then when someone comes in and starts doing something about all the bits that aren't working, we mock and belittle them for it.
Yup.
 

Telsim

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We've spent 10 years talking about how the whole organisation is rotten from the top down, and then when someone comes in and starts doing something about all the bits that aren't working, we mock and belittle them for it.
I've got no issue with it, per se. I'm just expecting this standard to be applied across all levels equally. And that remains to be seen this summer.
 

TheReligion

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We've spent 10 years talking about how the whole organisation is rotten from the top down, and then when someone comes in and starts doing something about all the bits that aren't working, we mock and belittle them for it.
Absolutely this.
 

nickm

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Yeah, we've all been concerned with the wfh policy and tidiness of the IT dept. Lost count of the threads.
At a top outfit, everyone and everything reflects the standard being set (because they have bought into the standard themselves).

It wasn't that long ago that United set the standard. When people say 'Sir Alex wouldn't have tolerated that' we all know what that means. Imagine if Sir Alex had needed to get a cable from the IT dept and he saw the place was a state... what do you think would have happened next?
 
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Ollie Derbyshire

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At a top outfit, everyone and everything reflects the standard being set.

It wasn't that so long ago that United set the standard. When people say 'Sir Alex wouldn't have tolerated that' we all know what that means. Imagine if Sir Alex had needed to get a cable from the IT dept and he saw the place was a state... what do you think would have happened next?
It’s all fine setting the standards at the lower level as long as he does the same for the manager and players, if not it’s just poor form.
 

black country red

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Can’t believe people praising Ratcliffes actions it’s leading up to loyal probably low paid employees losing their jobs what’s happened to the socialist Catholic ethos promoted by sir Matt
 

Redplane

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We've spent 10 years talking about how the whole organisation is rotten from the top down, and then when someone comes in and starts doing something about all the bits that aren't working, we mock and belittle them for it.
Qft indeed. You don't whip an organization back into shape without making some drastic changes.
 

Lash

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Whilst I don't know the inner workings of this decision, I'm not sure it's "wrong" on the face of it.

What I mean is we have inklings of a rotten culture at UTD albeit the players is what we know most about due to press etc.

However it could just be a sort of Jordan Peterson "clean your room" type of decision. In which case I'm all for it.

Could be wrong it's just Jim being a cnuts. But things at UTD have been lax for a while so maybe it's beginning of sorting out the culture.
The tidiness one I don't really care about, it seems a weird thing to focus on, but I'm not against making sure you don't work in a shithole.

The WFH is just a typical thing people point to when things aren't going well or try to improve something, when clearly there are far more important things that effect performance. It's a dumb power move and old hat.
INEOS have done whole audit of the club and have identified areas where we need to improve and change. Clearly the WFH policy was one that they felt had a negative impact and needed to change. They also looked at how many employees we have compared to other top clubs and want to cut that down. The club has been run like shit for too long. We're long overdue a shake up from top to bottom. I welcome anything that improves us as a club.
There's nothing wrong with your second point of trimming the fat of a big company. Dressing it up as a WFH policy being a problem is just stupid, because you'll also lose good employees as well as the ones you think are taking the piss. Not every WFH advocate is lazy and everyone who goes to the office is a harder worker.
How much experience do you have in changing the culture of massive, corporate organisations?

It's hardly focussing on the bottom when several of the highest profile executives at the club have already left their roles in the short time Ineos have been here.
Funnily enough in my old company, was a big part of my role with the consulting base. Just to clarify no where near the size of United, but still a big publicly traded fintech.

I like how they've been ruthless at exec level, that is certainly how it should be. Attacking a policy that's a benefit for most lower level workers on spurious grounds, is just dumb.
Pretty sure Dan Ashworth and Omar Berrada will be based in Manchester they'll be running the business.

Whilst I dont agree with it, unless it's in your contract wfh is at the employers discretion.
Sure, but like with every exec, I guarantee they'll get special dispensation and will be out the office a lot of the time.

Of course it's at their discretion, it's just stupid to take away a policy based on very little data backing up it's an issue. If you think people aren't working, you can discipline them and put them on performance plans. If you think people work better in person, you can just designate days where all the team should be in or strive to be and use collaboration tools. There are so many options to you apart from a blanket cancel of a policy that benefits your workers.
 
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decorativeed

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At a top outfit, everyone and everything reflects the standard being set (because they have bought into the standard themselves).

It wasn't that long ago that United set the standard. When people say 'Sir Alex wouldn't have tolerated that' we all know what that means. Imagine if Sir Alex had needed to get a cable from the IT dept and he saw the place was a state... what do you think would have happened next?
I started working for United back in 2013. I honestly could not believe how low the standards were there.

I worked alongside some of the most useless, talentless, rude and grumpy people I had ever met in the workplace, and they were essentially the public face of the club. These were customer-facing staff and the people giving the experiences and making the first (in in many cases) final impressions of Manchester United for visitors from all over the world.

Most of them were hired straight out of school because they were related to some other awful person who also worked there, and came with no experience and we're given a couple of days training by more senior awful members of staff, so the bad attitudes and poor standards were baked right in from the start. People who wouldn't pass their probation period in your local Tesco metro became fixtures on the ironically named 'welcome desk' for the next decade.

There were some amazing people there, but the management were unable to identify or support them (this doesn't refer to me, by the way - I've no personal axe to grind there), as they were largely too busy getting pissed and/or shagging the waiting staff they'd hired.

Every single decision made there was based on how cheaply and easily it could be done and how much more they could squeeze out of the visitor. Nothing else mattered.
 

Baxquux

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Can’t believe people praising Ratcliffes actions it’s leading up to loyal probably low paid employees losing their jobs what’s happened to the socialist Catholic ethos promoted by sir Matt
Well, Club's soul was sold to a bunch of American satanists, in all but name back in 2005. There's no point looking for off the field virtue in a monolith football club any more, short of a the kind of radical recalibration of our broader politics for which there's no hope any time immanently, but which would include majority fan ownership and the rest - all we can lobby for is that the club represents that 'ethos' in its playing style and promotion of local youngsters. The rest is just hoping the Glazer stench is finally purged by someone marginally less malign, (almost) equally horrible though his actual politics and business practices might be.
 

Lash

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At a top outfit, everyone and everything reflects the standard being set (because they have bought into the standard themselves).

It wasn't that long ago that United set the standard. When people say 'Sir Alex wouldn't have tolerated that' we all know what that means. Imagine if Sir Alex had needed to get a cable from the IT dept and he saw the place was a state... what do you think would have happened next?
I don't really care too much about the calling out of tidiness of an IT dept. People shouldn't work in a shithole as it's a shared space, but it's relatively small fry when you think of the wasteage and mismanagement much higher - no matter how tidy their offices were (probably paid to be cleaned regularly).
 

Godfather

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Why... Hybrid work is hardly the reason for our downfall. Some weird priorities. I'd rather hear his plans on our management and player recruitment than how he's after the workplaces of our IT guys or ending backroom staff's hybrid work routine.
 

Godfather

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I wonder what the standard practice is for these things at football clubs. I'm a software engineer and a hybrid model works quite well for me and will probably quit if forced to come in five days a week.
It works for most I know. This sounds exactly like the decision an old man would make that's out of touch with modern working conditions. Completely unnecessary.
 

diarm

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I like how they've been ruthless at exec level, that is certainly how it should be. Attacking a policy that's a benefit for most lower level workers on spurious grounds, is just dumb.
It’s not spurious grounds though is it. Highly qualified professionals have conducted a review. They brought in an independent third party to audit the club. These moves are based on the findings.

It’s also not going to affect the lower level workers because those will naturally be based at Old Trafford or at Carrington. This is going to affect the mid and mid to high level where it appears there has been massive wastage and inefficiencies.

It is infinitely harder to repair a broken workplace when your staff are all working remotely. Let them bring everyone back, spend some time weeding out the spoofers, get the staff numbers down to a fighting weight and get the place humming again with the right people in the right roles.

Then you relook at benefits and perks such as WFH and transport to cup finals.
 

Boycott

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I've seen why bosses do things like that when they take over as new leaders of a company. The point is to cull numbers without having to waste any time on staff assessments. For people like Ratcliffe they want to save pennies first from the previous regime's balance sheet. Only then will he put his own money in.

It is very cynical and the WFH is going to lead to talented people leaving as it is not feasible for everyone to be at the office all the time. But for the new regime it means the decision is made for them by the employee.
 

Bright_Eyes

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It works for most I know. This sounds exactly like the decision an old man would make that's out of touch with modern working conditions. Completely unnecessary.
I mean, he is an old rich man who has history of making decisions to reduce worker benefits, way worse than this too. Not really a suprise.
 

Acquire Me

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I started working for United back in 2013. I honestly could not believe how low the standards were there.

I worked alongside some of the most useless, talentless, rude and grumpy people I had ever met in the workplace, and they were essentially the public face of the club. These were customer-facing staff and the people giving the experiences and making the first (in in many cases) final impressions of Manchester United for visitors from all over the world.

Most of them were hired straight out of school because they were related to some other awful person who also worked there, and came with no experience and we're given a couple of days training by more senior awful members of staff, so the bad attitudes and poor standards were baked right in from the start. People who wouldn't pass their probation period in your local Tesco metro became fixtures on the ironically named 'welcome desk' for the next decade.

There were some amazing people there, but the management were unable to identify or support them (this doesn't refer to me, by the way - I've no personal axe to grind there), as they were largely too busy getting pissed and/or shagging the waiting staff they'd hired.

Every single decision made there was based on how cheaply and easily it could be done and how much more they could squeeze out of the visitor. Nothing else mattered.
Why doesn’t this surprise me at all. I am happy Ineos are getting things done.

Are you still with them?