Cole Palmer | Chelsea Player

[GledTheRed]

Cracking player this lad.

 

[Oranges038]

I think most clubs operate in that structure. We see Bayern, Madrid etc where managers stay for couple of years and have no control at all in the transfers, but do very well. It is the right way of running a club.

We will see for Chelsea. I believe their owners have experience in American sports, and despite what people say, I do not think there is much difference. Bring a big team of people with knowledge in the field, make heavy use of analytics, and have the manager as a cog in the machine. Of course, if you get an all time great like Pep, you give to him significantly power in transfers, but not every average Joe should get power on that (or in case of United, full power).

It took them years to perfect this approach and even now, with all the years of experience they still get many players and managers wrong.

At the same time. Those clubs operate in leagues where there are always one of two clubs expected to win or mount a serious title challenge every year. Even if they feck up like Bayern last year, they'll still either come first or second and still have CL football every year. Which is huge in terms of pulling power and finances.

I'll be very surprised if this approach is successful at Chelsea.

 

[Hoof the ball]

A massive part of their playing time came only in last 3 fixtures, when they already won the league and cup games when they were already up by multiple goals. This really isn't what I would describe as giving a healthy amount of minutes.

Rico Lewis played in 27 games in all competitions.
Cole Palmer played in 25 games in all competitions.

Rico played 360 minutes in the last four games, however, the majority of his 1700 minutes or so came from late 2022 and through March 2023. Mid-season whilst chasing Arsenal. He also started most FA Cup games for them throughout the entire season.

There's clear statistical evidence that Lewis was getting healthy minutes from August to May.

 

[golden_blunder]

“Cole! Cole!!. Ugh.. do I not like that!”

 

[MUFC OK]

City’s Rhain Brewster moment.

Did United get a good fee for Luke Chadwick when he left?

 

[AltiUn]

They transitioned Foden into the first team.

Cole Palmer got a healthy amount of minutes last season too.

Rico Lewis played in more minutes than Garnacho last season.

There are a lot of things to critique City about, but they're quite good with giving their young players lots of minutes. If they're about to sell Palmer for close to the amount of takes to bring in Doku then fair play to them. Isn't that just good business?

Just absolute horse shit.

 

[RuudTom83]

7 + 1 contract...congrats to him, he's made it!

 

[Lemoor]

Rico Lewis played in 27 games in all competitions.
Cole Palmer played in 25 games in all competitions.

Rico played 360 minutes in the last four games, however, the majority of his 1700 minutes or so came from late 2022 and through March 2023. Mid-season whilst chasing Arsenal. He also started most FA Cup games for them throughout the entire season.

There's clear statistical evidence that Lewis was getting healthy minutes from August to May.

Fair. Bulk of the minutes applies to Lewis too, but I should have definitely aimed it much more at Palmer. Lewis was getting a decent amount of minutes, just the comparison with Garnacho I find weird, since Garnacho broke in a few months into the season and had a lengthy injury that obviously limited his playing time.
Palmer is the example I have a lot more problems with. I'm checking his performances last season and out of those 25 games almost all of them are when City were at least 2 goals up and just seeing the game through or were already guaranteed the next phase of competition. The only games where it didn't happen where Chelsea in FA Cup and EFL cup games.
And those two are among their academy's biggest success stories in the last 15 games with regards to their first team involvement. Calling them good at giving their young players lots of minutes is just bizzarre for me.

 

[Bluelion7]

I was super skeptical and was like “what??”, but apparently this is a really good signing?

Only Nkunku is really comfortable playing in the central role of that 4231, apparently Poch is telling Palmer he can compete centrally and on the right.

I expect Noni to compete for time on the right. Part of me expects Sterling to have a little more freedom than the others, and where he primarily lines up will depend on who is more ready to play: if Mudryk is ready to and playing well, then Sterling on the right. Noni playing better? Sterling in the left, etc.

I don’t know. I was hoping for someone with a little more game time under the belt. But after Olise fell through that became tough, and Joe Lewis has VERY strong influence over this and the Lavia decision; so I guess it makes sense.

 

[duffer]

I'm interested to know the Man City fan's opinion on him leaving. Has anyone spoken to either of them about it?

 

[Manchester Dan]

I'm interested to know the Man City fan's opinion on him leaving. Has anyone spoken to either of them about it?

I think it’s an amazing price to get for Cole personally given what he has shown to date. He’s obviously got tons of potential and performed exceptionally well at U21 level, but the step up is huge and he’s been in and around the 1st team training for 2 years now and it’s fairly telling that in every instance the club have had the opportunity to cement his spot in the first team squad they’ve opted instead to buy (Alvarez (23) and Doku (21)).

I always think you’ll get some rumblings when we let a home grown player leave, but had the shoe been on the other foot and we’d just signed him for £45M to backfill Mahrez I would be fairly surprised. Pep obviously don’t think he is ready and given he will see him every single day that’s enough for me.

 

[Jeffthered]

I am extremely suprised that City sold him. Extremely. I wonder if something has gone on at the club.

Why would you develop a player of this talent and then sell him?

Strange this one.

 

[AltiUn]

I am extremely suprised that City sold him. Extremely. I wonder if something has gone on at the club.

Why would you develop a player of this talent and then sell him?

Strange this one.

The fee Chelsea offered was ludicrous, they'd have had to have been mental to turn it down.

 

[bringbackbebe]

The fee Chelsea offered was ludicrous, they'd have had to have been mental to turn it down.

He was rated higher than Foden in potential. Also, Chelsea sold Hall for 35m, so it seems to be the market rate for top young prospects.

 

[Hughes35]

7 + 1 contract...congrats to him, he's made it!

Yep, 21 years old and could now just do a Jack Rodwell if he wanted. Turn up for 7 years have a kick about, massage and go home.

Retire at 28/29 a multi millionaire.

Hopefully he gets his head down, works hard and does well but it's a hell of a risk handing contracts like these out.

 

[RuudTom83]

Yep, 21 years old and could now just do a Jack Rodwell if he wanted. Turn up for 7 years have a kick about, massage and go home.

Retire at 28/29 a multi millionaire.

Hopefully he gets his head down, works hard and does well but it's a hell of a risk handing contracts like these out.

Yeah it's an interesting story and we wont know until another 4-5 years how it turns out.

But on the face of it, its seems like kicking a very large problem down a very long road.

 

[Jeffthered]

The fee Chelsea offered was ludicrous, they'd have had to have been mental to turn it down.

You're not suggesting that the owners of Citeh' are really moved by money? Maybe there is a FFP element to all this, get some cash in. But I'm still surprised, even with Foden. Why not play them both?

Foden gets an injury, or loses a bit of form... happens you know.

 

[Bluelion7]

I am extremely suprised that City sold him. Extremely. I wonder if something has gone on at the club.

Why would you develop a player of this talent and then sell him?

Strange this one.

Well, FPP has essentially designed it so that it is too expensive to keep your own players. You can buy 5 players of equivalent quality for every 1 academy prospect you get good money for. If they aren’t a nailed on starter you won’t consider selling, then they are probably going to go.

They probably thought FFP would mean teams filling out their squads with academy graduates to help balance the books. But the unintended (but predictable for those with brain cells) consequence of FFP will be the opposite.

 

[Rnd898]

Yeah it's an interesting story and we wont know until another 4-5 years how it turns out.

But on the face of it, its seems like kicking a very large problem down a very long road.

Rather than the contract length a lot of the risk is dependent on the kind of salaries these player are getting. High paid players could prove very difficult to move on, but the more modestly paid players much less so.

Apart from maybe Nkunku I don't think I've even seen any rumors about the kind of wages most of our new lot are receiving. Not a peep from any reliable sources about the likes of Jackson, Palmer, Caicedo, Lavia, Ugochukwu, Disasi, Badiashile, Gusto, Sanchez, Petrovic or the few Brazilian kids. Without knowing even the roughest of ballpark figures (+/- 20% of the actual salary) it's hard to estimate if some of these unusually long deals are going to cause problems down the line or not.

For players like Palmer, Lavia, Madueke etc. it's going to make a huge difference whether they're on a salary upwards of £120K a week for the seven years or if they're starting out with something a bit more modest like a £60-80K/wk with maybe some pay raise clauses included in the contract if they perform well. On the latter kind of deal if they proves themselves decent PL level players but just not top class ones, they could just easily be shipped off to one of the mid-table clubs in 2-4 years and those kind of clubs would be able to match the remaining contract no problem. But if the wages on the contract were significantly more than any potential buying club would be comfortable paying and there's still multiple years left when it's time to sell, there's bound to be problems with offloading these players if things don't work out.

I honestly have no idea what to think about this contract strategy without knowing the estimated salaries and the incentives included in them.

 

[Manchester Dan]

He was rated higher than Foden in potential. Also, Chelsea sold Hall for 35m, so it seems to be the market rate for top young prospects.

Who rates Palmer above Foden?

 

[Dancfc]

You think he shouldn't even be consulted? If you're the coach you'd be happy to have players just being dumped on you?

Because, that's always worked well in the past.

Another 7+1 deal, can't wait to see how many of these players decided to sit out these deals whilst doing fcuk all on the pitch.

Signing players at the whims of a managers wishes doesn't work either in the modern game, as we've found out the hard way. Managers simply don't have time to train the team, scout the opponents for the next match and scout for the market on top of that. Klopp wanted Brandt and got overruled and given Salah which is fair to say went well?

For me, manager should identify a profile of player who fits their system and the directors do the rest.

 

[jakko]

Signing players at the whims of a managers wishes doesn't work either in the modern game, as we've found out the hard way. Managers simply don't have time to train the team, scout the opponents for the next match and scout for the market on top of that. Klopp wanted Brandt and got overruled and given Salah which is fair to say went well?

For me, manager should identify a profile of player who fits their system and the directors do the rest.

Exactly this, last summer we listened to Tuchel on transfers and we saw how that went.

 

[RuudTom83]

I honestly have no idea what to think about this contract strategy without knowing the estimated salaries and the incentives included in them.

Yeah good points.

Personally I could easily see agents negotiating a fairly hefty salary for a lot of the new signings.

Especially with the money Boehly is throwing around. It would be odd to buy a player for 100+ million to then only give them a sensible salary haha.

But we don't have that knowledge (yet) so only time will tell.

 

[adexkola]

Exactly this, last summer we listened to Tuchel on transfers and we saw how that went.

In general I'm fine with the manager not being involved in talent recruitment beyond identifying general profiles that would fit in his team.

The issue is that if you have incompetent recruitment then you're doubly screwed, coaches can only do so much with subpar/mismatched talent.

Boehly and team have not done much to inspire confidence to date.

 

[mu4c_20le]

He was rated higher than Foden in potential. Also, Chelsea sold Hall for 35m, so it seems to be the market rate for top young prospects.

Eh, first time I heard of this. Will probably show up in trivia some day... "remember that lad who was once rated higher than Foden? where is he now?"

 

[Dancfc]

In general I'm fine with the manager not being involved in talent recruitment beyond identifying general profiles that would fit in his team.

The issue is that if you have incompetent recruitment then you're doubly screwed, coaches can only do so much with subpar/mismatched talent.

Boehly and team have not done much to inspire confidence to date.

That reputation was built on last summer when it was basically Boehly and Tuchel winging it.

Since the recruitment team has come in it's been largely so far so good, although if Gallagher leaves today that's a definite black mark in my eyes.

 

[jakko]

In general I'm fine with the manager not being involved in talent recruitment beyond identifying general profiles that would fit in his team.

The issue is that if you have incompetent recruitment then you're doubly screwed, coaches can only do so much with subpar/mismatched talent.

Boehly and team have not done much to inspire confidence to date.

The January signings seemed good to me though.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I am extremely suprised that City sold him. Extremely. I wonder if something has gone on at the club.

Why would you develop a player of this talent and then sell him?

Strange this one.

Maybe he's not that good and 45M is a way too good offer to turn down?

City is packed with players upfront and just bought Doku. Palmer wasn't getting any meaningful minutes so 45M for him seems a really good deal.

 

[Oranges038]

Signing players at the whims of a managers wishes doesn't work either in the modern game, as we've found out the hard way. Managers simply don't have time to train the team, scout the opponents for the next match and scout for the market on top of that. Klopp wanted Brandt and got overruled and given Salah which is fair to say went well?

For me, manager should identify a profile of player who fits their system and the directors do the rest.

I understand all that, my main point was it's been a year. The new guy doesn't know what players he's getting. And in that year Chelsea have signed a ton of players and gone from Tuchel, to Potter to Poch. You think a squad filled with young players on long contracts is going to develop if you keep changing coaches every year?

I just think it's mental that people think Chelsea have the whole process licked.

 

[Rajiztar]

I understand all that, my main point was it's been a year. The new guy doesn't know what players he's getting. And in that year Chelsea have signed a ton of players and gone from Tuchel, to Potter to Poch. You think a squad filled with young players on long contracts is going to develop if you keep changing coaches every year?

I just think it's mental that people think Chelsea have the whole process licked.

We take a huge risk with the player recruitment and selling players. If things failed to click we will struggle to come back any time soon.

But owners wanted to take this risk.We shipped out all the underperformers and we are upgraded two areas defense and midfield with good players.

Attack also we are upgraded well but unfortunate injuries to nkunku and chukwuemeka things get little complicated. But over all we are good to go this season. And so far our performances were good even against whu where we lost 3-1.

Yes time only tell it's wise to change this much this soon but took risk and if we clicked well credit fully goes to owners for taking the risk.

 

[jakko]

Bit of a meh signing for me, potentially better options in the attacker market next summer if we waited. Could of just kept Angelo Gabriel until January.
If we were going to a buy a young english player id rather we got Alex Scott from Bristol City before Bournemouth did. Wouldn't surprise me if that kid does a Caicedo in a years time.

 

[Baxquux]

Exactly this, last summer we listened to Tuchel on transfers and we saw how that went.

Didn't Tuchel more or less try and extricate himself from the 'player recommendations' meetings until Boehly forced him to attend? Not sure why Boehly wouldn't take the hint. Unfortunately (for us, not so for Chelsea fans) I think this current Sporting Directorate-team approach of buying in promising Euro and S American talents with some 1st team experience to judge on but not so much that clubs can ask stupid money... is probably going to work, even if it looks slightly scattershot right now and of course very pricey. Particularly if prices for more experienced young players keep on inflating, or plateau without declining...and if your loans-management and liaison team do their job...

 

[mav_9me]

He was rated higher than Foden in potential. Also, Chelsea sold Hall for 35m, so it seems to be the market rate for top young prospects.

As others have said, that's just nonsense.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Well, FPP has essentially designed it so that it is too expensive to keep your own players. You can buy 5 players of equivalent quality for every 1 academy prospect you get good money for. If they aren’t a nailed on starter you won’t consider selling, then they are probably going to go.

They probably thought FFP would mean teams filling out their squads with academy graduates to help balance the books. But the unintended (but predictable for those with brain cells) consequence of FFP will be the opposite.

Spot on. Add in the fact that Academy spending is exempt from FFP, and you end up with an incentive to invest heavily in youth infrastructure with a view to selling young players for pure profit.

Will be interesting to see the other unintended consequences of this in the next 5-10 years. Will clubs start under-investing in positions/roles that don't command a high premium in the market, and go all out on developing attackers and flair players that tend to get overvalued?

 

[rimaldo]

I'm interested to know the Man City fan's opinion on him leaving. Has anyone spoken to either of them about it?

neither of us expected him to make the grade here. i remember us watching him in a game for the u23s. we’d just finished being racist on twitter, and were settling down for our half time cup of motor oil. i leaned across to bert and asked what he thought of cole palmer. he said “no point is there? not good enough. just buy loads of players. no history, no class, no need for young’uns.” i spat at the wife, before belting one of the kids, and agreed. we both thought it would be better to sell him to some chump club and buy a ready made foreigner. and if that didn’t work, buy another foreigner, and so on and so on.

 

[STYLOISRED]

neither of us expected him to make the grade here. i remember us watching him in a game for the u23s. we’d just finished being racist on twitter, and were settling down for our half time cup of motor oil. i leaned across to bert and asked what he thought of cole palmer. he said “no point is there? not good enough. just buy loads of players. no history, no class, no need for young’uns.” i spat at the wife, before belting one of the kids, and agreed. we both thought it would be better to sell him to some chump club and buy a ready made foreigner. and if that didn’t work, buy another foreigner, and so on and so on.

The most unbelievable part of this story was the fact that you both 'thought'

 

[Devil_forever]

I was wrong about him, he looks silky as hell and has been Chelsea’s most creative threat since coming on.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

City just don’t provide a first team pathway for youngsters. No matter how good they are. The exception is Foden, but even he is not a first team starter there and he’d start for virtually any other team in the league and be a key player.

The money aspect is hard to ignore too. Former City employees at Chelsea and Southampton paying massive fees for City youngsters. Everything about City stinks to the high heavens. From their charges to their sponsors who don’t exist etc. It’s really gross. English football is fundamentally broken.

Usually I’d be upset seeing a rival lift the treble but it was hard to register an emotional response other than a shrug and general contempt that it counts for nothing. I suppose once it sinks in that the governing body is going to end up doing nothing about it all, then maybe the disgust will become more visceral rage. City will find a way out. Just like when they were found guilty by UEFA but got off the hook because of the statute of limitations in UEFA’s own charter.

But none of this is the fault of Palmer, who is a good player. Nothing he’s done says he is worth what’s been paid. He may well fulfill his promise and turn out to be a good deal but on face value, the number of appearances and general impact, especially when judged against other transfers - even in this inflated market - makes this fee look extremely shady.

Your first paragraph is correct, but your second paragraph is utter drivel, and your third paragraph is slanderous nonsense.

City didn't "get off the hook" due to time limitations. The Court of Arbitration ruled the most serious charge in their favour, and on the contrary, City wanted to contest the lesser charges, but UEFA weren't interested once their "time restraint" own goal had become apparent.

 

[Raees]

 

[P-Ro]

Despite looking like a teenage Graham Potter, early indications are that he was well worth the money. Has looked class.