Combined Man Utd - Spurs XI

[TwoSheds]

Who've you got?

Mine:
Onana
Dalot Romero Martinez Udogie
Kulusevski Bissouma Mainoo Garnacho
Bruno
Son

Martinez doesn't really have a right to be in there because he can't stay fit but I really don't rate Van der Ven, looks garbage other than his pace. I guess you could pick Evans... Shaw is better than Udogie if he can stay fit but... I think Sarr and Bentancur wouldn't be the worst shouts over Mainoo at the moment, although obviously not based on potential, and you could probably make a case for Rashford or Maddison to be included in the team over Garnacho or Bruno.

It's neck and neck really, we need a lot more quality IMO because Spurs aren't great. Particularly when you think that Son has been a more or less world class performer for years now and we've not had a single player who is consistently at that level perhaps since De Gea was good.

 

[Cassidy]

Vicario

Dalot Van De Ven Martinez Udogie

Bissouma Bentancur

Garancho Bruno Son

Hojlund


It's tough to leave out Maddison (but also hard to muscle out Bruno), and disagree about Van der Ven he looks like a good defender (everyone has a bad game or 2 including Martinez)
Mainoo if he was more established could be in over Bissouma/Bentancur

 

[hobbers]

Doesn't matter what eleven you pick, ETH would guide them to negative goal difference and 8-10th whereas Ange would guide them to top 4 and +20 gd.

 

[JPRouve]

Vicario

Dalot Van De Ven Martinez Udogie

Bissouma Bentancur

Garancho Bruno Son

Hojlund


It's tough to leave out Maddison (but also hard to muscle out Bruno), and disagree about Van der Ven he looks like a good defender (everyone has a bad game or 2 including Martinez)
Mainoo if he was more established could be in over Bissouma/Bentancur

And funnily enough Van De VEN and Bentancur missed more than a third of games due to injuries.

 

[Cassidy]

And funnily enough Van De VEN and Bentancur missed more than a third of games due to injuries.

Whats that got to do with anything?

 

[Panther]

Doesn't matter what eleven you pick, ETH would guide them to negative goal difference and 8-10th whereas Ange would guide them to top 4 and +20 gd.

Crazy how Ten Hag currently isn't 8th-10th, nor is Ange top 4 with a 20+ GD with their respective teams.

 

[JPRouve]

Whats that got to do with anything?

The thread was started after the OP made the point(in an other thread) that ETH didn't underperform because Villa and Spurs have better teams and because three of our key players have been injured or declined.

 

[Panther]

Vicario
Porro VDV Martinez Ugodie
Bissouma
Mainoo Maddison
Bruno
Son Hojlund

Not a fan of either teams selection of wingers so may as well not have any (aside from Son but he can be ST).

 

[Rightnr]

Who's the manager? There's your answer.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Who've you got?

Mine:
Onana
Dalot Romero Martinez Udogie
Kulusevski Bissouma Mainoo Garnacho
Bruno
Son

Martinez doesn't really have a right to be in there because he can't stay fit but I really don't rate Van der Ven, looks garbage other than his pace. I guess you could pick Evans... Shaw is better than Udogie if he can stay fit but... I think Sarr and Bentancur wouldn't be the worst shouts over Mainoo at the moment, although obviously not based on potential, and you could probably make a case for Rashford or Maddison to be included in the team over Garnacho or Bruno.

It's neck and neck really, we need a lot more quality IMO because Spurs aren't great. Particularly when you think that Son has been a more or less world class performer for years now and we've not had a single player who is consistently at that level perhaps since De Gea was good.

Van der Ven has been one of the signings of the season. Had a nightmare against Newcastle but he looks ripe for a big transfer inside a year. He’s brilliant and would be world class if he developed under a coach that didn’t ask him to play in the halfway line and play with so much risk. He’s far better than Romero.

Porro is great too. Probably not better than Dalot in a 4 man defence but would thrive as a wing back.

 

[hobbers]

Crazy how Ten Hag currently isn't 8th-10th, nor is Ange top 4 with a 20+ GD with their respective teams.

But we deserve to be 8th-10th on every metric except points. And Ange would take a better first eleven to higher in the table.

 

[paulscholes18]

Vicario
Porro Van de Ven Martinez Shaw
Mainoo Bentacur
Garnacho Maddison Son
Hojlund

 

[Cassidy]

The thread was started after the OP made the point(in an other thread) that ETH didn't underperform because Villa and Spurs have better teams and because three of our key players have been injured or declined.

I see, got it.

 

[Cassidy]

But we deserve to be 8th-10th on every metric except points. And Ange would take a better first eleven to higher in the table.

Might want to see how Ange does next season before making those claims to be honest. Seen plenty of managers have this said about them only to fumble the very next season
Especially at Spurs

 

[TwoSheds]

The thread was started after the OP made the point(in an other thread) that ETH didn't underperform because Villa and Spurs have better teams and because three of our key players have been injured or declined.

But Van de Ven is shite and Bentancur merely decent. They're not key players. If they are you know you're not going anywhere.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Whats that got to do with anything?

Something else to fecking moan about, probably.

 

[TwoSheds]

Van der Ven has been one of the signings of the season. Had a nightmare against Newcastle but he looks ripe for a big transfer inside a year. He’s brilliant and would be world class if he developed under a coach that didn’t ask him to play in the halfway line and play with so much risk. He’s far better than Romero.

Porro is great too. Probably not better than Dalot in a 4 man defence but would thrive as a wing back.

If Van der Ven weren't quick he'd be playing in the Championship. And Porro is a poor defender for me.

 

[Red Star One]

Crazy how Ten Hag currently isn't 8th-10th, nor is Ange top 4 with a 20+ GD with their respective teams.

Funny when you put it that way "Ten Hag isn't 8th-10th" when he's 7th, and that "Ange isn't top4 with 20+ GD" while he is 5th, 3 points below 4th with a game in hand and +16 GD (to ours -1). Ange is comfortably ahead of Ten Hag (10 points, 17 GD delta is quite comfortable) with a squad vast majority of United fans deemed inferior to ours prior to the start of the season, so I'm not sure it's the best spot to do such ironic comments.

 

[JPRouve]

But Van de Ven is shite and Bentancur merely decent. They're not key players. If they are you know you're not going anywhere.

That's not the best endorsement of Spurs' squad strength.

 

[JPRouve]

Something else to fecking moan about, probably.

If you don't know just ask, instead of assuming.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

If Van der Ven weren't quick he'd be playing in the Championship. And Porro is a poor defender for me.

With Porro… yeah. But he’s a fairly great full back in the right system. Better going forward than Dalot.

Disagree about VdV. He’s raw. But solid. And we can’t just ignore his pace. Kyle Walker is a 7/10 centre back but his pace makes him world class. His evolution from the player he was at Spurs to City could be replicated by Van der Ven. He just needs coaching.

 

[TwoSheds]

That's not the best endorsement of Spurs' squad strength.

What, to pick 2 of their worse players and say they're not that good? Agreed. Spurs' squad isn't amazing but it's marginally better than ours in my opinion.

 

[Grande]

In before the WFA cup final 12th of May at Wembley:

Earps U
Le Tissier U Turner S Turner U Blundell U
Zelem U Clinton S
Toone U
Ildhusøy S Geyse U Galton U

 

[TwoSheds]

With Porro… yeah. But he’s a fairly great full back in the right system. Better going forward than Dalot.

Disagree about VdV. He’s raw. But solid. And we can’t just ignore his pace. Kyle Walker is a 7/10 centre back but his pace makes him world class. His evolution from the player he was at Spurs to City could be replicated by Van der Ven. He just needs coaching.

Maybe but Walker was always strong and committed in defence even if his positioning was occasionally wayward and his ability on the ball fairly poor. With Van der Ven I can't see any strengths other than pace.

 

[DWelbz19]

Romero and Martinez might be the most insane CB pairing to ever play together. Just two guys outdoing each other on aggressive Argentine behaviour

 

[JPRouve]

What, to pick 2 of their worse players and say they're not that good? Agreed. Spurs' squad isn't good but it's marginally better than ours in my opinion.

I didn't pick anyone. You asked people to make a combined XI of both teams and I commented on the one @Cassidy made which is by the way mirrored by others. Now what am I supposed to conclude when one of the player that is mentioned the most is also shite according to you? You are either correct and it says a lot about Spurs squad or you are wrong and it says a lot about your ability to judge players and squads.

Edit: Also your team has more United players than Spurs players which also weakens your initial claim.

 

[Todd]

Vicario
Porro Van de Ven Martinez Shaw
Mainoo Bentacur
Garnacho Maddison Son
Hojlund

This

 

[Dazzmondo]

Mine's not based on form, it's based on how good I believe the players actually are. Some like Casemiro would look far better in a more cohesive structure imo.

Vicario (tough, Onana's done well too)
Dalot Romero VDV Udogie (Shaw close)
Casemiro Mainoo
Garnacho Bruno Rashford
Son

As you can probably guess, I think Utd's squad is miles better than Spurs and we're massively underperforming.

 

[Cassidy]

Romero and Martinez might be the most insane CB pairing to ever play together. Just two guys outdoing each other on aggressive Argentine behaviour

Ha, we witnessed this at times during the world cup

 

[AltiUn]

Vicario
Udogie - VDV - Romero - Dalot
Bentancur - Mainoo
Kulusevski - Maddison - Garnacho
Son

NGL both teams kinda suck

 

[TwoSheds]

I didn't pick anyone. You asked people to make a combined XI of both teams and I commented on the one @Cassidy made which is by the way mirrored by others. Now what am I supposed to conclude when one of the player that is mentioned the most is also shite according to you? You are either correct and it says a lot about Spurs squad or you are wrong and it says a lot about your ability to judge players and squads.

Edit: Also your team has more United players than Spurs players which also weakens your initial claim.

It does. I'm not mad if somebody wants to make the argument that we have a slightly better squad, it's subjective. For me Son and some functional DMs puts them clearly ahead of us but it's an opinion.

As for Van der Ven, he's a flavour of the month, I'll be proven right. Everyone hyped Eric Dier up for a long time, he was limited too.

 

[Cassidy]

It does. I'm not mad if somebody wants to make the argument that we have a slightly better squad, it's subjective. For me Son and some functional DMs puts them clearly ahead of us but it's an opinion.

As for Van der Ven, he's a flavour of the month, I'll be proven right. Everyone hyped Eric Dier up for a long time, he was limited too.

Who hyped up Eric Dier?
I guess the overall point @JPRouve may be making is that Ange is doing a much better job with, as you put it only a slightly better squad, and based on your 11 you would have more United players in the 11 than Spurs

 

[CM]

The majority of our players are better individually but Spurs have performed better this season because they've played better as a team, ergo their manager has some idea of how to cater to their strengths and weaknesses.

Son and van de Ven are the only ones who I think would have a serious chance of starting regularly for us. There's maybe a debate to be had with Vicario and Udogie, although I prefer Onana and Shaw. I don't think the rest of them are anywhere near the standards of where we'd want to be. Spurs are very much in their honeymoon phase this season with Ange and the consensus may well be different after their 2nd season together.

 

[JPRouve]

It does. I'm not mad if somebody wants to make the argument that we have a slightly better squad, it's subjective. For me Son and some functional DMs puts them clearly ahead of us but it's an opinion.

As for Van der Ven, he's a flavour of the month, I'll be proven right. Everyone hyped Eric Dier up for a long time, he was limited too.

I don't care if you are mad or not. The point is that your initial claim is disproved by yourself and everyone else. Also some of the players you listed for Spurs were utter shite last season without Postecoglou.

 

[harms]

Vicario
Porro - Van der Ven - Martinez - Shaw
Bissouma - Mainoo
Kulusevski - Bruno - Garnacho
Son​

Probably this? I haven't been following Spurs closely, so this may be overly influenced by the couple of games that I've seen as well as the highlights. You can push Son out wide and play Richarlison or Hojlund up top but I can't say that they deserve to start.

If you count just the current (or even this season's) form you can't in your right mind include neither Shaw nor Martinez though. And Bruno probably gets benched for Maddison, although it's quite close. Depressing.

 

[harms]

Son and van de Ven are the only ones who I think would have a serious chance of starting regularly for us.
...
I don't think the rest of them are anywhere near the standards of where we'd want to be.

But these are two completely different things? Most of United players aren't anywhere near the standards of where we'd want to be.

 

[JPRouve]

But these are two completely different things? Most of United players aren't anywhere near the standards of where we'd want to be.

Looking at the contrast between this season and last season, I have to wonder how much a manager help/allow players to be near the required standard? Some of Spurs players have had totally different seasons, the same way some of our players had totally different seasons in a different team setup

 

[CM]

But these are two completely different things? Most of United players aren't anywhere near the standards of where we'd want to be.

I also don't think any of the other Spurs players represent upgrades on the equivalents in their positions.

I don't really rate Porro or Romero and their midfielders are largely water carriers. Maybe one of them could get in by virtue of Casemiro losing his legs, but then Ten Hag hasn't played to his strengths either. It's difficult to assess a player in a completely dysfunctional system.

Edit: Basically what @JPRouve said above

 

[TwoSheds]

Who hyped up Eric Dier?
I guess the overall point @JPRouve may be making is that Ange is doing a much better job with, as you put it only a slightly better squad, and based on your 11 you would have more United players in the 11 than Spurs

It's fine margins, they didn't do anything in Europe and are marginally ahead in the league and they're not in line to win a trophy, and IMO they've a marginally better squad. It's in the noise. Neither manager is doing amazingly IMO so the fact you think Ange is doing a much better job I find bizarre. He's certainly not doing a bad job but both squads are just 4th to 6th place quality it seems to me. I also think Ten Hag could do better, I'm not sure Postecoglou could.

 

[Ubik]

It's all much of a muchness and has been for a while, hence why we both tend to yo-yo past each other every other season depending on who's made the worst decisions in the preceding 12 months.