Cop in America doing a bad job, again

[WeePat]

When people question why other police officers don't question or stand up to the bad officers dragging their reputation through the mud, I was often told it's either because they're afraid or they're as bad as the bad officers. I don't know if Baltimore is a particularly gruesome place when it comes to this, but that police department appears to show up a lot when you're researching police officers doing the right thing. They're certainly done a great job at silencing any would-be good officers who might have otherwise listened to their conscience after witnessing a colleague engage in illegal activity.

In 2017



And then two years later https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2019...suicide-baltimore-police-close-investigation/

In 2016 - https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/baltimore-joe-crystal_n_7582374?ri18n=true

 

[Sara125]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/videos/us/2...ice-ctn-sot-vpx.cnn?__twitter_impression=true

A bit more insight from the store owner as to what transpired. Quick summary:

So it was an alleged counterfeit $20 bill, not a forged cheque. Explains that it’s store protocol to call police for suspected counterfeit money, which is fair play because it’s a policy here in the UK for a few jobs I’ve worked at too such as retail and ticket stands at events etc. He watched the whole thing on surveillance as it was unfolding and confirmed that at no point did George resist arrest.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that apparently it was not even forged. Here is where I got it from:



The original tweeter hasn’t said how she knows this and afaik nothing else has come out about that so I’m not sure but then again not too sure why it is taking long to confirm if a note is fake. Don’t know about American notes but all you need is a two second squiggle using a UV pen to determine so for British money.

 

[RedPed]

They've just arrested the CNN crew live on TV. How dumb can these feckers get?

 

[RedPed]

The idiots have seized the CNN camera and it's still running, live on CNN. They don't know it's on.

 

[arnie_ni]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/videos/us/2...ice-ctn-sot-vpx.cnn?__twitter_impression=true

A bit more insight from the store owner as to what transpired. Quick summary:

So it was an alleged counterfeit $20 bill, not a forged cheque. Explains that it’s store protocol to call police for suspected counterfeit money, which is fair play because it’s a policy here in the UK for a few jobs I’ve worked at too such as retail and ticket stands at events etc. He watched the whole thing on surveillance as it was unfolding and confirmed that at no point did George resist arrest.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that apparently it was not even forged. Here is where I got it from:



The original tweeter hasn’t said how she knows this and afaik nothing else has come out about that so I’m not sure but then again not too sure why it is taking long to confirm if a note is fake. Don’t know about American notes but all you need is a two second squiggle using a UV pen to determine so for British money.

Even if he did resist arrest, three cops had him pinned to the ground and he was cuffed.

Ok, the cop may have felt he needed to restrain him with the knee to the neck (from what ive read this is allowed) but as soon as he is restrained and cuffed that's game over. Lift him up and put him in the back of the car.

He sat on him for 9 minutes ffs, theres no amount of resisting arrest that justifies that.

The fact that it even needs to be mentioned he wasnt resisting is shameful.

All it says is a lot of people would then deem it justified which is madness.

 

[RedPed]

 

[Sara125]

Even if he did resist arrest, three cops had him pinned to the ground and he was cuffed.

Ok, the cop may have felt he needed to restrain him with the knee to the neck (from what ive read this is allowed) but as soon as he is restrained and cuffed that's game over. Lift him up and put him in the back of the car.

He sat on him for 9 minutes ffs, theres no amount of resisting arrest that justifies that.

The fact that it even needs to be mentioned he wasnt resisting is shameful.

All it says is a lot of people would then deem it justified which is madness.

The CNN reporter asked about it first so the owner addressed it but yeah you’re right it’s not even something worth bringing up from either party tbh

 

[JPRouve]

The CNN reporter asked about it first so the owner addressed it but yeah you’re right it’s not even something worth bringing up from either party tbh

It's worth bringing up for one side when it can be used to obfuscate. There is a pattern in the press and in the way people want to add angles/layers to this type of events.

 

[calodo2003]

The reporter had the audacity to be black, thus he was arrested.

 

[Abizzz]

The reporter had the audacity to be black, thus he was arrested.

https://local.theonion.com/man-questions-if-it-really-necessary-for-protesters-to-1843736724

 

[entropy]

Stop being a prick.

Thats all i asked for. Proof.

You cant make accusations without proof. Now you have it, I'll criticise it.

Now that you have it, they deserve what they get now they are making a conscious effort to increase the level of violence.

Its to give them an excuse when they start shooting as trump so eloquently put it.

Despicable.

He's just an asshole.

Yesteday they were basless accusations which arent allowed on this board. I called the poster on it.

Im prepared to criticise the cops now there is evidence to support the claim.

But yea his still of posting in this and other threads adds nothing to discussion and just hinders his own arguments, which most people actually agree with, but youd never know it

Cry more. You were hounding posters for evidence like a cop and now that someone found it everyone else is a prick. If you actually gave a shit, you’d already know the answer behind your dumb questions. Because guess what, cops do this all the fecking time whenever there is a civil rights issue.

 

[mav_9me]

I agree the statement should have been as simple as that. Though people would still not be happy with that there is less to be analysed.

Because the laws have a higher burden for prosecution of police acting in the line of their duty. The testimony will likely all be indicating that higher charges will be harder to prove and there will be questions about which charges to bring that can be prosecuted successfully.

The evidence was enough to rightly sack the officers involved but the legal side is more difficult to get justice in. The prosecutor will be aware of that and probably sees themselves in a difficult situation to balance what people want against what they can achieve.

Genuine question here. Why isn't the cop charged with anything? Surely they can start with something no? I don't know how this works. So asking.

 

[entropy]

It's a bit weird because I want to go in your direction but something is wrong here. Ask yourself this question, why is it going to happen again? For me the answer clearly points to something else than the police, it points to society at large, the judicial and political systems have the same prejudice against african americans and I assume hispanics/latinos, the education system and the average american often have that prejudice too. None of these institutions are monoliths but on the topic of race american society is poisoned to the point where wherever you look a significant minority will create havoc at some point. And I don't see how they are going to fix that.

This situation reminds me this quote, a finger pointing at the moon isn't the moon.

The solution is less complicated and actually been around for a while. The only way to fix it is to stop funding them and figuring out a way to slowly take away their weapons. There is no need whatsoever for any police dept to have access to the kind of fire arms like they do in the US. Year after year, the budgets and firepower keep increasing with zero oversight and no logical justifications. George Floyd and many others died for no reason other than the cops being so inept and not having responded to the complaints filed against that officer. It is insane that little to nothing is done to hold them accountable and they keep getting rewarded for killing civilians.

 

[RedPed]

Genuine question here. Why isn't the cop charged with anything? Surely they can start with something no? I don't know how this works. So asking.

Basically the short answer is that the cop is white and the dead man is black. That's how it works and that's all you need to know. That is why three precincts burned last night. It really is as simple as that.

 

[JPRouve]

The solution is less complicated and actually been around for a while. The only way to fix it is to stop funding them and figuring out a way to slowly take away their weapons. There is no need whatsoever for any police dept to have access to the kind of fire arms like they do in the US. Year after year, the budgets and firepower keep increasing with zero oversight and no logical justifications. George Floyd and many others died for no reason other than the cops being so inept and not having responded to the complaints filed against that officer. It is insane that little to nothing is done to hold them accountable and they keep getting rewarded for killing civilians.

That's beside the point and George Floyd didn't die due to a fire arm. But you keep ignoring the point which I clearly stated and the solution is easy to state but very complicated to apply, you are not changing people mentality any time soon.

 

[freeurmind]

So this guy died because he allegedly had a fake 20? Which turned out to be real? Madness.

 

[Sky1981]

The rioting has happened many time before and hasnt made a button of difference either.

The only way itl change is if the people in power actually start handing out tough sentences as a deterrent.

Then you need to try and tackle racism in the country as a whole, then as you get new cops in and the old guard out, you'll gradually, year by year, whittle down racism in the police force.

Its far from an easy fix.

I cant wrap my head around how anyone can look at someone and based on the colour of their skin think they are superior than them. Its disgusting, but it isnt just cops.

Its a community wide, country wide issue, and until thats tackled you'll always have racism in cops, or any other job sector.

You can change 5% racist population over time. You can't change 40% racist population, 40% will change you.

Off course I don't know the actual percentage of racist in America, but judging from how this happened over and over and over again and how many people are still defending them I suspect there's a good number of racist still out there, and some even hold power.

This is not a simple racist cop, the racist cop is just the tip of a very giant iceberg

 

[Sky1981]

Genuine question here. Why isn't the cop charged with anything? Surely they can start with something no? I don't know how this works. So asking.

because, I'm taking a wild guess here.

By defending the cops, you win some vote comes election, whether it's local or national. Because if I'm american I won't elect those that doesn't condemn this shit, and vice versa I guess if you're racist.

If you don't defend the cops, some white won't gonna elect you next election.

 

[MTF]

So this guy died because he allegedly had a fake 20? Which turned out to be real? Madness.

Also still want to see where this gets to. Not because it matters. It was murder even he'd been detained for a heinous crime. But I did get passed a few fake 20s as change once without noticing, and I did try to pay at a store or restaurant later with them only to be told that they were fake. It was very embarrassing, but obviously no one called the cops on me, a white guy.

 

[2mufc0]

All I have to say is WTF??????

He is a big part of the problem that enables these things to happen, that's why I agree with posters that say it goes beyond Police and their training (although this is also a contributing factor). Not much will change as long as these old white boomers are in charge at the top.

 

[do.ob]

That's beside the point and George Floyd didn't die due to a fire arm. But you keep ignoring the point which I clearly stated and the solution is easy to state but very complicated to apply, you are not changing people mentality any time soon.

Obviously you can't just solve racism, but that's only half the story, the other part is that these cops are allowed to live out their racism in the first place, because of the indifference to police brutality and worse. Like you won't be able to turn the guy who did the choking into a decent person or even prevent the likes of him from entering service. But you can probably get (some of) the other three to tell him to snap out of it, because he's about to ruin the lives of all of them.

 

[entropy]

That's beside the point and George Floyd didn't die due to a fire arm. But you keep ignoring the point which I clearly stated and the solution is easy to state but very complicated to apply, you are not changing people mentality any time soon.

Huh. Who gives a feck about changing mentality? You post sounded like it is an impossible problem to solve. Which it isnt. If anything, we are way past the stupid and outdated notion of cops and their role in society. The solution isn’t to discuss whether or not people will change or have philosophical discussions on these grounds. It is to take money away from them and figure out a way to reduce the sheer amount of fire arms they have access to.

 

[JPRouve]

Obviously you can't just solve racism, but that's only half the story, the other part is that these cops are allowed to live out their racism in the first place, because of the indifference to police brutality and worse. Like you won't be able to turn the guy who did the choking into a decent person or even prevent the likes of him from entering service. But you can probably get (some of) the other three to tell him to snap out of it, because he's about to ruin the lives of all of them.

r
It's not an other half though which is my point. Why do you think that they are allowed to live out their racism? That's the thing that I don't get, you are all staring at it but end up looking away.

 

[JPRouve]

Huh. Who gives a feck about changing mentality? You post sounded like it is an impossible problem to solve. Which it isnt. If anything, we are way past the stupid and outdated notion of cops and their role in society. The solution isn’t to discuss whether or not people will change or have philosophical discussions on these grounds. It is to take money away from them and figure out a way to reduce the sheer amount of fire arms they have access to.

Okay this time I will be explicite. No one is going to take anything away from them because the people in charge, the ones that aren't in the police, politicians, judges and a large part of the electorate are for a significant part racist, they have no intention to change a thing because they are perfectly fine with the current context.

 

[arnie_ni]

Cry more. You were hounding posters for evidence like a cop and now that someone found it everyone else is a prick. If you actually gave a shit, you’d already know the answer behind your dumb questions. Because guess what, cops do this all the fecking time whenever there is a civil rights issue.

So asking for evidence before accusing someone of something is to much to ask these days?

You sound like those cops that shoot first and ask questions later.

Anyway proof has been provided and ive criticised the incident like every sane person would.

If you want to keep "hounding" me for asking for proof before vilifying someone be my guest.

 

[Ludens the Red]

The solution is less complicated and actually been around for a while. The only way to fix it is to stop funding them and figuring out a way to slowly take away their weapons. There is no need whatsoever for any police dept to have access to the kind of fire arms like they do in the US. Year after year, the budgets and firepower keep increasing with zero oversight and no logical justifications. George Floyd and many others died for no reason other than the cops being so inept and not having responded to the complaints filed against that officer. It is insane that little to nothing is done to hold them accountable and they keep getting rewarded for killing civilians.

Huh. Who gives a feck about changing mentality? You post sounded like it is an impossible problem to solve. Which it isnt. If anything, we are way past the stupid and outdated notion of cops and their role in society. The solution isn’t to discuss whether or not people will change or have philosophical discussions on these grounds. It is to take money away from them and figure out a way to reduce the sheer amount of fire arms they have access to.

You really haven’t thought this one through. You think this is even a remotely plausible solution when In the United States you’ve got random members of the public owning up to a dozen firearms at a time because “it’s their right”.

When you’ve got tens of millions in that country saying “it’s my right to own a gun”. You think the police department is going to be stripped of theirs? What planet are you living on? I mean yeah for sure there‘s a lot of police in America who clearly go around with the motto “shoot first ask questions later” but that pails into comparison to the number of civilians shooting each other left right and centre with their legally attained guns.

All due respect what you’ve said has clearly not really been thought out.
You asked @JPRouve that ‘who gives a feck about changing mentality’ well that mentality of “I’m American I deserve a gun” is the mentality along with racism that are the highest of hurdles that the states need to overcome to fix their problems.

It’s odd, because your posting style is very ‘know it all and putting people down’ but what you’ve said is one of the most illogical things I’ve seen in this thread in the last few days.

 

[Smores]

I get the impression from afar that there's a bit of a purposeful focus on the individual involved and whether they're charged or not. It seems to be used as a distraction from the obvious point that such events just demonstrate the failure in culture and process of the police.

Either they're not vetting their staff appropriately, the culture is wrong or the training is wrong. The fact his colleagues didn't stop him to me is scarier than the individuals actions.

 

[entropy]

Okay this time I will be explicite. No one is going to take anything away from them because the people in charge, the ones that aren't in the police, politicians, judges and a large part of the electorate are for a significant part racist, they have no intention to change a thing because they are perfectly fine with the current context.

Less funding, less fire arms, more oversight are ideas that have been around for a long time dating back to the 70s. Politicians like to pretend that these are impossible problems to solve. But they aren’t. There is simply no logical explanation for the sheer amount of money and power we keep giving cops when crime levels have been at historic lows.

 

[do.ob]

Okay this time I will be explicite. No one is going to take anything away from them because the people in charge, the ones that aren't in the police, politicians, judges and a large part of the electorate are for a significant part racist, they have no intention to change a thing because they are perfectly fine with the current context.

A big part of it is obviously racism, but another is probably that it's not politically opportunistic to go for substantial reforms. I hesitate calling riots a flat out good thing, but I think this is where they can have a positive effect, because they make it more costly for everyone to look the other way.

 

[entropy]

You really haven’t thought this one through. You think this is even a remotely plausible solution when In the United States you’ve got random members of the public owning up to a dozen firearms at a time because “it’s their right”.

When you’ve got tens of millions in that country saying “it’s my right to own a gun”. You think the police department is going to be stripped of theirs? What planet are you living on? I mean yeah for sure there‘s a lot of police in America who clearly go around with the motto “shoot first ask questions later” but that pails into comparison to the number of civilians shooting each other left right and centre with their legally attained guns.

All due respect what you’ve said has clearly not really been thought out.
You asked @JPRouve that ‘who gives a feck about changing mentality’ well that mentality of “I’m American I deserve a gun” is the mentality along with racism that are the highest of hurdles that the states need to overcome to fix their problems.

It’s odd, because your posting style is very ‘know it all and putting people down’ but what you’ve said is one of the most illogical things I’ve seen in this thread in the last few days.

Can you explain to us, as a cop, why you require the same amount of firepower as an army? what’s the logic behind that?

 

[Sky1981]

A big part of it is obviously racism, but another is probably that it's not politically opportunistic to go for substantial reforms. I hesitate calling riots a flat out good thing, but I think this is where they can have a positive effect, because they make it more costly for everyone to look the other way.

When politicians are too scared of image they refuse to call out floyd's as execution it beggars belief what sort of public they want their vote from, and he even probably will get reelected

 

[jungledrums]

@Leroy The Red I’m genuinely curious, have you ever said cops require the same amount of firepower ‘as an army’? Have you ever even hinted at it?

 

[Ludens the Red]

@Leroy The Red I’m genuinely curious, have you ever said cops require the same amount of firepower ‘as an army’? Have you ever even hinted at it?

I’ll play ball anyway....

Can you explain to us, as a cop, why you require the same amount of firepower as an army? what’s the logic behind that?

Where is the logic behind this question? The cops killing people are street cops using handguns. If they were turning up in black neighbourhoods with tank guns and grenades, maybe just maybe you’d have a very small point.

 

[Fortitude]

So this guy died because he allegedly had a fake 20? Which turned out to be real? Madness.

That's not why he died.

 

[JPRouve]

I get the impression from afar that there's a bit of a purposeful focus on the individual involved and whether they're charged or not. It seems to be used as a distraction from the obvious point that such events just demonstrate the failure in culture and process of the police.

Either they're not vetting their staff appropriately, the culture is wrong or the training is wrong. The fact his colleagues didn't stop him to me is scarier than the individuals actions.

This is the point that I'm failing to make. They are not actually vetting or to be more honest some departments aren't vetting them for that type of things. You have cops and other public servants wearing swastikas or making racist/xenophobic comments on public platforms. The very nature of vetting is subjective and it will depend entirely on where your society's values are, in the US being racist isn't that big of deal, being publically racist isn't that big of deal and there is a fair chance that the mob will defend your free speech rights.
That's the problem that I have with a few, in isolation I agree with the idea of cleaning the Police but in reality cleaning the Police is something that can only be done from the tip of the pyramid and that pyramid is headed by a fair amount of bigots and racists who gained their mandates from the electorates who is perfectly happy with these bigoted and racist practices. It's as if they are wearing blinkers.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

All I have to say is WTF??????

New evidence = he's white and a cop.

Statey clowns acting under presidential orders, no doubt.

 

[entropy]

I’ll play ball anyway....

Where is the logic behind this question? The cops killing people are street cops using handguns. If they were turning up in black neighbourhoods with tank guns and grenades, maybe just maybe you’d have a very small point.

But they do have access to such fire arms. If anything, they have access to not just fire arms but also surveillance tools that allows them to encroach upon constitutional rights and spy on individuals.

 

[Fridge chutney]

America is a broken place.

 

[Drainy]

Genuine question here. Why isn't the cop charged with anything? Surely they can start with something no? I don't know how this works. So asking.

Because they need to bring the right charges.

If they go murder they have to prove intent. Manslaughter there may be rules that protect an officer acting as part of their duty and they need to get the evidence together to bring it to show why the protections don't apply under the law using statutes and or case law.

It's less than a week, people need to be patient before calling bullshit. The officers lost their jobs and next is the legal recourse.

The prosecutor isn't an armchair commentator watching a video and posting online, they have to consider the law and the evidence and bring the right charges once the evidence is gathered to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Otherwise the officer will not get anything

 

[Ludens the Red]

But they do have access to such fire arms. If anything, they have access to not just fire arms but also surveillance tools that allows them to encroach upon constitutional rights and spy on individuals.

Ok but how is that going to stop Street police officers in the states turning up to 999 calls and killing unarmed black people?
What has that go to do with surveillance and spying on people ? I think your issues are just with policing in general which is fine to have but that’s not what people in this thread are addressing.

You must surely know that purely stripping the police force of high tech equipment and firearms isn’t going to stop Officer Bob turning up to a theft of a cheeseburger call and deciding to shoot the suspect dead with a basic handgun.