Could Norway be banned from WC? FIFA threatens

[Tom Cato]

Didn't seem to be a thread on this, various sources but rarely start threads and don't know what sites we can/ can't link so haven't provided one but if someone is able, feel free to add one:

The Norwegian players wore tops while warming up saying "Human Rights On and Off the pitch" as a direct result to the deaths in the Qatar WC that have occured. Norway are considering pulling out the WC entirely and FIFA are considering fines/ other disciplinary actions.

The NFF have said in a statement: ""FIFA is clear that they want to equate a boycott with withdrawing from the competition, which will mean that Norway does not participate further in the qualifying game."

FIFA have responded outlining the threats of fines & sanctions.

Where do you fall on this? Are Norway justified in pulling out or should they be fined/ reprimanded?

So this is an ongoing debate in Norway, and no determination has been made wether or not the Norwegian National team should "boycott" Qatar World Cup.

This whole discussion started when a coach of one of the national teams went out and said that "We should boycott". Now there is a discussion that no one can agree on, but the most prevailing sentiment is that the most reasonable approach is to help enact change through policy and having the worlds eyes on Qatar. A boycott will do absolutely nothing in terms of changing anything. It's something we do for ourselves, not the people of Qatar.

FIFA opted not to discipline Norway after the first stunt, citing: "FIFA believes in the freedom of speech, and in the power of football as a force for good", thus inspiring other teams to follow suit, like Germany.

If Norway decides to boycott (Which is a bit silly since we're nowhere of a sure thing to even qualify), we do the opposite thing of what we're trying to accomplish: Bring focus to human rights.

So in short, no Norway won't decide to boycott the tourmanet, and I hope that the random coaches in our country begins to think more than 5 seconds into the future

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Politics. They would have no problem if the world cup was being held in Dubai or Saudi Arabia (countries far worse as far as human rights are concerned). Also, we've been having Olympics in China for years

UAE and Saudis would probably get the same treatment, but then again both are allies of the US (which means Norway also by default) so maybe the tone would have been milder. Norway kinda stood up against China with the Nobel award and the ended up in a massive and long boycott the other way. Don't forget this initiative is led by football clubs and players, not fronted by leaders with masters degree in political science who are playing house of cards, so doubt UAE and Saudis would get another treatment by them but maybe the political intervention would be different.

 

[JPRouve]

It started properly (been semi-discussed in media for a few years) when one of clubs in the top division started an initiative earlier this year to stand up against the Qatar WC. More clubs joined in and it eventually ended up as a subject to vote over at the annual members meeting. If the majority vote yes, then it will result in an official boycott from the Norwegian FA. The general feeling is that most are behind a boycott but the top brass are reluctant - coming out with clichés like "dialogue is better than boycott" - which obviously helps feck all when it comes to corruption, so there's still a strong possibility that it will voted against. But atleast the message has been spread loud and clear.

Many will point to Norway even struggle to qualify but having players like Haaland and Odegaard fronting the campaign will create attention regardless if the team is good enough or not.

Thanks for explaining the context.

 

[Matriac]

As for why now, so late. I think in general the people in the grassroots were hoping the people in charge (of Norwegian FA and International associations) would do something about it earlier after the news started coming out.
Plus we do probably feel it's a bit embarrassing to speak of a boycott when we haven't qualified for an international tournament in men's football since 2000.

But since nobody else have so far this is an effort started by individuals in the Norwegian footballing community thinking someone should speak up, and pushed for their local clubs to vote on this, which got some media attention which led to more and more clubs doing the same to force the Norwegian FA to take a stance on this.

 

[Born2Lose]

Much respect to Norway, as a Welsh man as little as they have appeared at major tournaments I wouldn't mind them missing out or abstaining from this tragic farce.

This was the article that really opened my eyes beyond the flagrant corruption of it all.

The causes are often listed as natural death, heart attack or cardiac arrest — the men go to bed after an exhausting day of work and never wake up.

https://www.statnews.com/2016/12/21/nepalis-die-working-abroad/

 

[Cascarino]

So this is an ongoing debate in Norway, and no determination has been made wether or not the Norwegian National team should "boycott" Qatar World Cup.

This whole discussion started when a coach of one of the national teams went out and said that "We should boycott". Now there is a discussion that no one can agree on, but the most prevailing sentiment is that the most reasonable approach is to help enact change through policy and having the worlds eyes on Qatar. A boycott will do absolutely nothing in terms of changing anything. It's something we do for ourselves, not the people of Qatar.

FIFA opted not to discipline Norway after the first stunt, citing: "FIFA believes in the freedom of speech, and in the power of football as a force for good", thus inspiring other teams to follow suit, like Germany.

If Norway decides to boycott (Which is a bit silly since we're nowhere of a sure thing to even qualify), we do the opposite thing of what we're trying to accomplish: Bring focus to human rights.

So in short, no Norway won't decide to boycott the tourmanet, and I hope that the random coaches in our country begins to think more than 5 seconds into the future

Is there an idea on how that would be accomplished?

 

[BarstoolProphet]

So this is an ongoing debate in Norway, and no determination has been made wether or not the Norwegian National team should "boycott" Qatar World Cup.

This whole discussion started when a coach of one of the national teams went out and said that "We should boycott". Now there is a discussion that no one can agree on, but the most prevailing sentiment is that the most reasonable approach is to help enact change through policy and having the worlds eyes on Qatar. A boycott will do absolutely nothing in terms of changing anything. It's something we do for ourselves, not the people of Qatar.

FIFA opted not to discipline Norway after the first stunt, citing: "FIFA believes in the freedom of speech, and in the power of football as a force for good", thus inspiring other teams to follow suit, like Germany.

If Norway decides to boycott (Which is a bit silly since we're nowhere of a sure thing to even qualify), we do the opposite thing of what we're trying to accomplish: Bring focus to human rights.

So in short, no Norway won't decide to boycott the tourmanet, and I hope that the random coaches in our country begins to think more than 5 seconds into the future

I disagree completely. When has dialogue proven to be helpful when it comes to obvious corruption? "Dialogue" is what has watered out the attention into nothing over the years, which is what the officials are hoping for. It has been "yeah, working man's death is bad and all but now let us move on (while counting the cash in the envelope." has been the result whenever the question has been raised. That Norway might not qualify at all might make an eventual individual boycott a bit moot, but having the likes of Haaland - a bonafide world class player for the next ten years - fronting the campaign, has made the international community take this more seriously than "lads, it's Norway". Saying stuff like that coaches and players (I expect you include them also) should think for more than five seconds before voicing their opinion is a bit degrading. You can't have only experts in geopolitical strategies qualified to say anything regarding this matter.

 

[Tom Cato]

I disagree completely. When has dialogue proven to be helpful when it comes to obvious corruption? "Dialogue" is what has watered out the attention into nothing over the years, which is what the officials are hoping for. It has been "yeah, working man's death is bad and all but now let us move on (while counting the cash in the envelope." has been the result whenever the question has been raised. That Norway might not qualify at all might make an eventual individual boycott a bit moot, but having the likes of Haaland - a bonafide world class player for the next ten years - fronting the campaign, has made the international community take this more seriously than "lads, it's Norway". Saying stuff like that coaches and players (I expect you include them also) should think for more than five seconds before voicing their opinion is a bit degrading. You can't have only experts in geopolitical strategies qualified to say anything regarding this matter.

That's the entire point though isn't it? They're actively putting focus on it in the time ramping up to the tournament. Boycotting means removing that voice alltogether. You'd be replacing the potential for a meaningful movement with "We won't come to your thing, it will be embarrassing for a while but we all move on and nothing changes"

No one is saying that there's no quick fix answers, that's why I wrote that no one can agree. My point is that you can choose to remain in the spotlight, or you can boycott and be forgotten in a couple weeks. For me the choice is very easy.

On that note: The moment "everyone" boycotts the WC. What happens? The workers are still there, human rights remain the same, no one has any incentive to change anything. FIFA can't undo a boycott once they enact it. Norway can't, no one can. A boycott means that we're parting ways, shaming you in the process. And what prompts Qatar to change literally anything if that happens?

At least with the spectacle of the world cup that brings more attention to global corporations that operate in Qatar, there is a meaningful potential for public scrutiny in the time before and after the WC. In Qatar, money is the only thing that speaks. It's a monarchy with absolute control.

Qatar has a migrant workforce of around 2 million people, some of them no better treated than slaves. Without relentless, global focus on these horrific issues that force the hand of the people involved, nothing will ever be done about it.

 

[Tom Cato]

Is there an idea on how that would be accomplished?

Forcing international trade boycott of companies who are found to be engaged in employment of people defined under "modern day slavery" is the most approachable solution that can be achieved over short time.

Putting globalt rade restritions on companies such as Doha Bank, Qatar National Bank, Qatar Islam bank, Gulf International, etc. Ban foreign investment into Qatari companies. There's hundreds of ways you can force the government of Qatar to listen.

Without the Emir of Qatar being open to social reform himself, he needs to be pressured from the outside to do so.

None of the above is easy or without consequence, but it's the most obvious route.

 

[MDFC Manager]

It also says that only 20 per cent of expatriates from the countries in question are employed in construction, and that work-related deaths in this sector accounted for fewer than 10 percent of fatalities within this group.

Its still essentially slave labour though, deaths or not. You'll not find a single qatari doing the manual labour work in question, that should tell you all you need to know without actually being there physically.

 

[jem]

It doesn't answer the question, why didn't they start that process years ago?

Well there could be a number of reasons I suppose. Perhaps there is a new crop of players coming through (Haaland?) that are more socially conscious. In any event, better late than never, and Norway should be commended, in my opinion.

 

[Samid]

So FIFA's point is that if they don't want to participate in the tournament they shouldn't participate in the qualifier? That actually sounds reasonable. Not sure about fines though.

Norway want to boycott 2022 WC. FIFA's response is if you boycott 2022 WC we'll ban you from the 2026 WC. Not sure how that is reasonable.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Let’s be frank the situation in Qatar and the building industry is nothing short of outrageous. The fact the FIFA seem happy to brush aside any concerns just shows that the only thing that matters is money.

now I don’t believe in politicising football. The world is relatively conflict free at the moment, but two teams with completely opposing views/ ideology who are in conflict with each other etc should be able to come together and play sport.

So in short, I’m conflicted, football shouldn’t be political, but they a highlighting a shocking state of affairs.

 

[do.ob]

Norway want to boycott 2022 WC. FIFA's response is if you boycott 2022 WC we'll ban you from the 2026 WC. Not sure how that is reasonable.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

I was refering to this quote from OP:
"FIFA is clear that they want to equate a boycott with withdrawing from the competition, which will mean that Norway does not participate further in the qualifying game."

 

[Mike Smalling]

norway historically had a monopoly on both oil export and human rights abuse. their nose has been put right out of joint by the new kids on the block with their new money. they do not appreciate how the qataris are working men to death to build opulent stadia, they are old school. much better to rape and pillage people to oblivion. in their eyes, all of the deaths, in all of the concrete bowls, in all of the world combined aren’t worth one nun slaughtered at lindisfarne. norway are the establishment, the republic, the royalists. they are dinosaurs, relics. they are scared.

I would be in favor of the Qatari national team wearing 'Justice for Lindisfarne' t-shirts during warm-up.

 

[stevoc]

no. i’m talking about ole gunnar solskjaer and united fan’s hopes and dreams.

Yeah ok.

 

[stevoc]

I think he is. He is justifying every atrocity committed since. And we should not care because of it…

Yeah might be the case, I see a lot of that sort of nonsense in these threads.

 

[Kinsella]

?

The origin of the term provides a clue.

 

[snk123]

Its still essentially slave labour though, deaths or not.

I have debated this before as well - Qatar has changed its laws to improve the working conditions much much more than any country in the middle east. The companies don't keep the passports of the laborers now so it is NOT slave labour unlike in UAE or Saudi Arabia. I would argue Qatar's working conditions are much better than any other arab country now.

And you're from India so you do know that the laborers go to Qatar or any middle eastern country by choice. That is because the conditions in their own countries are worse. They work on daily wages, fail to provide for their family and struggle to make ends meet. So Qatar or any other country is much better for them - despite the heat and working conditions.

You'll not find a single qatari doing the manual labour work in question, that should tell you all you need to know without actually being there physically.

You'll not find an emirati working in labour in UAE as well. But people from all over the world go to events in Dubai - and there isn't any fuss. Let's not kid ourselves here. These rich arabs have been blessed with oil and are the worst in human kind when it comes to "working hard". They are born with a golden spoon up their arses and treat everyone like slaves.

My concern is selective outrage. It reeks of political bias and hypocrisy. If the world cup was to be held in Israel today - everyone would be quite. This is all political.

Countries should put pressure on Qatar to improve working conditions and have an independent monitoring organization look into it continuously. Suggestions for boycotting and cancelling the event reeks of politics.

 

[Stack]

thousands of migrant workers dying in 10 years - no evidence that they were died constructing the stadiums. Fixed it for you

hahahahaha knew you would pop up....

 

[Desert Eagle]

I have debated this before as well - Qatar has changed its laws to improve the working conditions much much more than any country in the middle east. The companies don't keep the passports of the laborers now so it is NOT slave labour unlike in UAE or Saudi Arabia. I would argue Qatar's working conditions are much better than any other arab country now.

And you're from India so you do know that the laborers go to Qatar or any middle eastern country by choice. That is because the conditions in their own countries are worse. They work on daily wages, fail to provide for their family and struggle to make ends meet. So Qatar or any other country is much better for them - despite the heat and working conditions.



You'll not find an emirati working in labour in UAE as well. But people from all over the world go to events in Dubai - and there isn't any fuss. Let's not kid ourselves here. These rich arabs have been blessed with oil and are the worst in human kind when it comes to "working hard". They are born with a golden spoon up their arses and treat everyone like slaves.

My concern is selective outrage. It reeks of political bias and hypocrisy. If the world cup was to be held in Israel today - everyone would be quite. This is all political.

Countries should put pressure on Qatar to improve working conditions and have an independent monitoring organization look into it continuously. Suggestions for boycotting and cancelling the event reeks of politics.

Absolutely untrue. There would be outrage that puts what Qatar is going through to shame. Countries would withdraw the day they win the bid. Yes there is hypocrisy surrounding the major powers ( America, China etc) but that is only because of their financial and geopolitical leverage.
The decision to go or not go are both political btw, just like them winning the bid was politics.

 

[OleBoiii]

Politics. They would have no problem if the world cup was being held in Dubai or Saudi Arabia (countries far worse as far as human rights are concerned).

First of all: you don't know that. Dubai and Saudi Arabia receive a ton of bad press.

Secondly: even if it was true, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't boycott Qatar.

 

[berbatrick]

Much respect to Norway, as a Welsh man as little as they have appeared at major tournaments I wouldn't mind them missing out or abstaining from this tragic farce.

This was the article that really opened my eyes beyond the flagrant corruption of it all.

https://www.statnews.com/2016/12/21/nepalis-die-working-abroad/

These are the kinds of tricks @snk123 has been relying on to defend his preferred monarchy.

 

[Cascarino]

Forcing international trade boycott of companies who are found to be engaged in employment of people defined under "modern day slavery" is the most approachable solution that can be achieved over short time.

Putting globalt rade restritions on companies such as Doha Bank, Qatar National Bank, Qatar Islam bank, Gulf International, etc. Ban foreign investment into Qatari companies. There's hundreds of ways you can force the government of Qatar to listen.

Without the Emir of Qatar being open to social reform himself, he needs to be pressured from the outside to do so.

None of the above is easy or without consequence, but it's the most obvious route.

I think you’ve made some good points here, the only thing I’d say is that none of this can’t be done while having to actually go to the World Cup, which does add legitimacy to the whole operation.

I can understand where you’re coming from with the argument that being a presence there while speaking out holds some kind of sway, but at least to me on a personal level having swathes of countries trying to highlight the injustice and deaths that had gone into setting up this tournament, would certainly feel diminished by having al said countries actually going there and participating in the tournament.

Where we differ mostly, is the repercussions of such an act. You rightfully mention that a complete boycott wouldn’t achieve anything meaningful for the workers of Qatar and the human rights violations, but it would certainly mean something for future tournaments.

My concern is selective outrage. It reeks of political bias and hypocrisy. If the world cup was to be held in Israel today - everyone would be quite. This is all political

I think you’d be very surprised

 

[snk123]

These are the kinds of tricks @snk123 has been relying on to defend his preferred monarchy.

I don't defend Qatar. Just laugh at you lot being hypocrites as usual. The reason of outrage from these countries is not to improve worker conditions at all. How would boycotting the event help do that?

But keep on labelling people just because they present a different point of view.

 

[Cascarino]

I don't defend Qatar. Just laugh at you lot being hypocrites as usual. The reason of outrage from these countries is not to improve worker conditions at all. How would boycotting the event help do that?

But keep on labelling people just because they present a different point of view.

You mentioned Israel, yet the widespread stance of the forum is condemnation.

Im confused about where the hypocrisy is coming from?

 

[snk123]

hahahahaha knew you would pop up....

Have to! Otherwise these threads would be full of people like you who've never been near Qatar, label the country as one of the worst places on earth to live while enjoying their vacations in Dubai and turning a blind eye on Israel where 60 children were killed in a week.

I feel it is my obligation to point out the hypocrisy of the western world! Thanks!

 

[Cascarino]

Have to! Otherwise these threads would be full of people like you who've never been near Qatar, label the country as one of the worst places on earth to live while enjoying their vacations in Dubai and turning a blind eye on Israel where 60 children were killed in a week.

I feel it is my obligation to point out the hypocrisy of the western world! Thanks!

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/israel-palestine-discussion.438643/

You’ve read this thread yes?

 

[snk123]

You mentioned Israel, yet the widespread stance of the forum is condemnation.

Im confused about where the hypocrisy is coming from?

We're talking about Norway. It is one of the closest allies of Israel if I'm not wrong. The U.S approved arms sale to Israel despite what was going on. Are you telling me that these countries would boycott the event if it was being held in Israel? Give me a fecking break.

Norway is participating in the winter Olympics as well being held in China despite the human rights conditions there and the treatment of Uighurs. Where are the shirts for that?

Don't you find the selective outrage a little hypocritical?

 

[AlexUTD]

Scary how little focus it is on all these poor workers dying by the thousands while 1 football player almost dies and some football clubs try to start a super league the whole world gets involved.

What a fecked up planet we live in.

 

[berbatrick]

I don't defend Qatar. Just laugh at you lot being hypocrites as usual. The reason of outrage from these countries is not to improve worker conditions at all. How would boycotting the event help do that?

But keep on labelling people just because they present a different point of view.

You used the same defence that has been dismissed by that quote to defend Qatar, by claiming most deaths were not related. This was in posts 27 and 52. And now you're lying that you're not defending them. Cool.

 

[neverdie]

Where do you fall on this? Are Norway justified in pulling out or should they be fined/ reprimanded?

Of course they're justified in pulling out if they want to. FIFA are hypocrites and everyone knows this. They're a racist organisation. More racist than any player they've ever sanctioned as those players didn't use ethnic based slave labour and murder people based on race in the process in order to make money, like FIFA have done in concert with Qatar.

Scary how little focus it is on all these poor workers dying by the thousands while 1 football player almost dies and some football clubs try to start a super league the whole world gets involved.

The number of times they referenced Eriksen, even kicking a ball out at 10mins, was obscene. People recalling accounts of crying or on the verge of tears seemed pathetic to me. You've just watched countries be carpet bombed without batting an eyelid. Get your priorities straight. Some might say it isn't either or, but if one can move you so far then you must spend all day on the verge of tears or else completely disregard the other, much more horrible, stuff that goes on.

 

[snk123]

You used the same defence that has been dismissed by that quote to defend Qatar, by claiming most deaths were not related. This was in posts 27 and 52. And now you're lying that you're not defending them. Cool.

Yes I don't defend Qatar. They have awful working conditions, treat south asians like slaves and many workers have died working there but 6500 was a massive exaggeration and a number that wasn't broken down further. Can you not point out two fallacies? Cool.

 

[Acrobat7]

I don't defend Qatar. Just laugh at you lot being hypocrites as usual. The reason of outrage from these countries is not to improve worker conditions at all. How would boycotting the event help do that?

But keep on labelling people just because they present a different point of view.

Of course you defend Qatar. Your main approach is „others are worse“.

 

[snk123]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/israel-palestine-discussion.438643/

You’ve read this thread yes?

Yes, a handful of people condemn Israel's atrocities on the caf - but I'm talking about the decisions of nations generally.

Would Norway boycott the world cup if it was being held in Israel? I just want a yes/no answer.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Of course they're justified in pulling out if they want to. FIFA are hypocrites and everyone knows this. They're a racist organisation. More racist than any player they've ever sanctioned as those players didn't use ethnic based slave labour and murder people based on race in the process in order to make money, like FIFA have done in concert with Qatar.

I don't take this stance but to play devil's advocate, they conscribed to the tournament, to pull out puts all the other teams at a disadvantage and devalues the qualifying system surely?

 

[KirkDuyt]

Is this the farthest someone has gone back in history to try and win an argument on the Caf? Vikings were cruel in the 8th century so that justifies slave labour in the 21st century. Absolute barn buster of a post.

Italy should be boycotted too, cnuts burned down Carthage, enslaved their women and even salted the Earth. Or what about Iran?! Xerxes had half horse half human abominations working for him in his injust war of conquest against Gerrard Buttler.

 

[lysglimt]

I always feel like a boycot is more effective when it comes from a team actually participating - Norway are playing like they dont want to join so .. no big deal.

 

[neverdie]

I don't take this stance but to play devil's advocate, they conscribed to the tournament, to pull out puts all the other teams at a disadvantage and devalues the qualifying system surely?

FIFA devalued the tournament by rewarding it to Qatar. All subsequent actions of various football associations are absolved. This has been a debate for a decade now, so there's nothing new here. The Qatari WC should never have been sanctioned.

 

[snk123]

Of course you defend Qatar. Your main approach is „others are worse“.

Nope - my main approach is it is blatant hypocrisy by the west. How countries like Norway can take the high road when they want and be lauded by gullible, hypocrite folks for taking a "principled" stance.