[Nordmore]

Martial was way under xG, Rashford was above :

Martial did underperform his xG and he lost most of what made him good in 19/20. Rashford had good output last season and most of the complaints were regarding his workrate and decision making.

We scored last season a lot of low percentage goals, those earned us a lot of points which is basically one of the main reasons we got second.



How good were we really at creating if we were 5th behind Leeds in npXG?

Yeah the only possible explanation is our strikers are actually better finishers than what the caf believes.

For the "we don't create a lot" I agree it's not true to say we create a lot. But saying our strikers since Lukaku have been starving for chances is not true at all.

Anyway, I had some free time and this seems interesting so I had a few looks into the G-xG.

Last season:
Spurs: +11.5
United: +9.8
City: +8.7
Liverpool: -7.6
Chelsea: -8.0

This season so far:
Spurs: -5.3 (Kane turned shit I guess)
United: +2.6
City: +1.6
Liverpool: +2.0
Chelsea: +4.6

The ability to finish chances of Chelsea and Liverpool strikers has vastly improved while both United and City have regressed. But still doing ok imo.

I also had a look at the forwards who regularly start for us this season.

Bruno: +1.4
Greenwood: +0.9
Rashford: +0.8
Sancho: -0.1
Ronaldo: -0.7

Turned out Ronaldo is not really such a good finisher as he's supposed to I think.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Yeah the only possible explanation is our strikers are actually better finishers than what the caf believes.

For the "we don't create a lot" I agree it's not true to say we create a lot. But saying our strikers since Lukaku have been starving for chances is not true at all.

Anyway, I had some free time and this seems interesting so I had a few looks into the G-xG.

Last season:
Spurs: +11.5
United: +9.8
City: +8.7
Liverpool: -7.6
Chelsea: -8.0

This season so far:
Spurs: -5.3 (Kane turned shit I guess)
United: +2.6
City: +1.6
Liverpool: +2.0
Chelsea: +4.6

The ability to finish chances of Chelsea and Liverpool strikers has vastly improved while both United and City have regressed. But still doing ok imo.

I also had a look at the forwards who regularly start for us this season.

Bruno: +1.4
Greenwood: +0.9
Rashford: +0.8
Sancho: -0.1
Ronaldo: -0.7

Turned out Ronaldo is not really such a good finisher as he's supposed to I think.

Why do you assume only strikers contribute to a team's xG? And why is overperforming xG your measure for a good striker anyway?

Ronaldo and Cavani are deadly due to their movement especially in the box, things which our other options lack. It's that same movement that makes them accumulate a higher xG per 90 than our other options, meaning that they're likely to underperform their xG but score more goals.

The reason why I said we shouldn't underestimate Ronaldo scoring is precisely because he can still create chances with his movement despite us not creating a whole lot of clear chances for the strikers (the type f.e City would create), which leads to a good goal return despite a relative lack of service. Same for Cavani really, and nothing to do with anyone overperforming their xG.

 

[Nordmore]

Why do you assume only strikers contribute to a team's xG? And why is overperforming xG your measure for a good striker anyway?

Ronaldo and Cavani are deadly due to their movement especially in the box, things which our other options lack. It's that same movement that makes them accumulate a higher xG per 90 than our other options, meaning that they're likely to underperform their xG but score more goals.

The reason why I said we shouldn't underestimate Ronaldo scoring is precisely because he can still create chances with his movement despite us not creating a whole lot for the strikers, which leads to a good goal return despite a relative lack of service. Same for Cavani really, and nothing to do with anyone overperforming their xG.

G-xG indicates the ability to finish chances of a striker. I used the word "finisher" not "striker".

 

[He'sRaldo]

G-xG indicates the ability to finish chances of a striker. I used the word "finisher" not "striker".

This is what you said:

How could we outperformed our xG that much if we supposed to have such bad strikers? This is pretty interesting imo.

 

[Zlaatan]

I guess... Welcome to football?

My point was more that he seems to handle the ball better when he finishes or passes on his first touch rather than when he gets some time on the ball and tries to control it, which obviously isn't what you'd expect.

 

[Nordmore]

This is what you said:

That's the post before not the post you quoted. Prior to that post we didn't have any discussion about G-xG and the ability to finish.

In the post you quoted I've made it very clear about the G-xG and the ability to finish chances of a striker.

 

[He'sRaldo]

That's the post before not the post you quoted. Prior to that post we didn't have any discussion about G-xG and the ability to finish.

In the post you quoted I've made it very clear about the G-xG and the ability to finish chances of a striker.

In that case, I assume you can now see why over-performing xG isn't the best measure for a good striker?

Or do you still stand by that view? In which case my question still stands: why is overperforming xG your measure for a good striker anyway?

 

[Nordmore]

In that case, I assume you can now see why over-performing xG isn't the best measure for a good striker?

Or do you still stand by that view? In which case my question still stands: why is overperforming xG your measure for a good striker anyway?

Again, I said Ronaldo is not a good finisher as he's supposed to. I didn't use the word striker.

Sorry if that hurts you, you seem to be a big Ronaldo fan but unfortunately it's true. The stats don't lie. And tbh I started to think this conversation with you is really meaningless. I only have 5 posts a day I don't want to waste my quota on this. So bye.

 

[shamans]

Again, I said Ronaldo is not a good finisher as he's supposed to. I didn't use the word striker.

Sorry if that hurts you, you seem to be a big Ronaldo fan but unfortunately it's true. The stats don't lie. And tbh I started to think this conversation with you is really meaningless. I only have 5 posts a day I don't want to waste my quota on this. So bye.

Even as a pure finisher using xg like this isn't accurate

 

[He'sRaldo]

Again, I said Ronaldo is not a good finisher as he's supposed to. I didn't use the word striker.

And even then that's still not what the stat measures.

Sorry if that hurts you, you seem to be a big Ronaldo fan but unfortunately it's true.

Now you're just projecting.

The stats don't lie. And tbh I started to think this conversation with you is really meaningless.

You've got to interpret the stats correctly first of all. And even then, yes you can tell lies using stats.

Well, at least you got something right at the end there.

 

[TheGame]

Tweet

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[Rojow]

What a strange comment to add his goal tally. I find Ronaldo is always in PR and Marketing mode.

 

[D. Grayson]

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What a prick.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

You know those big volleys that Ronaldo has started to miss every game and kicks the fresh air -

Did he actually used to kick them better? I'd like to see some videos of some WC goals he used to kick on the volley.

I remember his bicycle kicks but can't remember the Zidane CL final type of volleys.

As people get older, although you can still go to the gym and keep your body looking insane, the brain slows down and his co-ordination/reaction time is significantly slower. Although it sometimes comes off, thats why he keeps not connecting with the ball every game.

We need to get him the ball in positions where he has time and space so he can do his magic.

 

[Gehrman]

What a strange comment to add his goal tally. I find Ronaldo is always in PR and Marketing mode.

I think it's to try and stay on top of the narrative vs Messi. But I guess marketing is marketing no mattter what.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Tweet

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[AaronRedDevil]

Tweet

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Another words. Win the champion's league or I'm leaving.

 

[tenpoless]

Ronaldo boasting about facts - "what a prick!"
Maguire celebrating a goal - "point proven! thatd shut up the critics. Go captain!"

 

[DWelbz19]

Ronaldo boasting about facts - "what a prick!"
Maguire celebrating a goal - "point proven! thatd shut up the critics. Go captain!"

Yeah, because that was the response Harry Maguire received.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Ronaldo boasting about facts - "what a prick!"
Maguire celebrating a goal - "point proven! thatd shut up the critics. Go captain!"

What a weird conflation

 

[SirMonteyne]

What I've seen is his runs and forward passes are truly world-class. If any team adapts to his plays that team would be a serious contender in CL and league.
Building a team around him is not about buying new players, it's about making a team that creates enough chances by simple passes per game and good understanding between players. That should be his last legacy in a team, I really hope his signing makes us a very good attacking team.
Before his arrival, everyone was trying to score and every attacking build-up plays were for themselves. There were more than enough ego games on the field. This would work against smaller teams but never against bigger teams.
Imagine real madrid without Ronaldo last decade, every player play ego-game on the field to make a mess (Like us). Even Di Maria made his ego game with players during his time with united to prove he is an alpha in a team. What I have always believed is every best team needs one and only alpha whether it's a player or manager.

 

[Jackal981]

Only the Spurs game, but that shouldn't even count.

We didn't play well to end last season either though. Our issues aren't solely down to Ronaldo.

He has his issues though and I don't think we'll ever be a pressing side with him in the team. His attacking output(while still good/great) isn't worth the knock-on effect of him not being able to press.

It was always a nostalgia signing, but we'd probably be out of the CL group stages without his goals and his performances.

Do people really thought we were playing like the second coming of prime Barca before Ronaldo came ? The crap football had started the season before culminating in that shameful Europa final. Ronaldo coming in just exposed it even more because we are put under magnifying glass.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

What I've seen is his runs and forward passes are truly world-class. If any team adapts to his plays that team would be a serious contender in CL and league.
Building a team around him is not about buying new players, it's about making a team that creates enough chances by simple passes per game and good understanding between players. That should be his last legacy in a team, I really hope his signing makes us a very good attacking team.
Before his arrival, everyone was trying to score and every attacking build-up plays were for themselves. There were more than enough ego games on the field. This would work against smaller teams but never against bigger teams.
Imagine real madrid without Ronaldo last decade, every player play ego-game on the field to make a mess (Like us). Even Di Maria made his ego game with players during his time with united to prove he is an alpha in a team. What I have always believed is every best team needs one and only alpha whether it's a player or manager.

Real Madrid wouldn’t have won what they did with current Ronaldo though. You are talking about a 37 year old bloke, he is a shadow of when he was best in the world.

We haven’t seen any improvement in big games since his arrival. That’s not his fault and it shouldn’t be either. At his age, he needs a world class support cast behind him, we won’t even challenge for the league due to the state of our team.

I am delighted he came back but the choice was him or a midfielder, not both. We needed the midfielder more than we needed an alpha, hence our league position.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Ronaldo boasting about facts - "what a prick!"
Maguire celebrating a goal - "point proven! thatd shut up the critics. Go captain!"

Yeah, Maguire really is far too popular on here. In fact, I can't remember a single player who's been more uniformly adored and venerated - to the point of unhealthy obsession, even.

Someone should do something about it - his insane army of fans are invading every thread at the moment.

 

[Deery]

Tweet

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That doesn’t really sound good, hopefully it’s just a way to gee himself and others up but to come out with “I’m not happy” isn’t great no matter the context.

Let’s hope it’s nothing..

 

[Amar__]

Tweet

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Tweet not showing?

 

[The Firestarter]

That doesn’t really sound good, hopefully it’s just a way to gee himself and others up but to come out with “I’m not happy” isn’t great no matter the context.

Let’s hope it’s nothing..

He also didn't really need to state the obvious.

 

[Deery]

He also didn't really need to state the obvious.

No he didn’t.

 

[Ludens the Red]

That doesn’t really sound good, hopefully it’s just a way to gee himself and others up but to come out with “I’m not happy” isn’t great no matter the context.

Let’s hope it’s nothing..

It says he’s not happy with what we’re achieving. There’s really nothing to it. You can’t isolate the “I’m not happy” when it’s obviously in relation to how the team is performing.
Also it’s Instagram so he probably didn’t write it anyway.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Let's try to be abit less critical for a moment and appreciate the fact that he has scored 47 goals and 7 assists in 2021 alone, at age 36.

Let's hope this continues in 2022 as well, although some of you may not be very happy about him scoring goals and winning games, and are more concern on his poor pressing stats or some specific xG analysis.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Another words. Win the champion's league or I'm leaving.

He better pick up his level then. Because we have regressed badly with him, and some of his performances have been head scratchingly poor.

 

[The Firestarter]

It says he’s not happy with what we’re achieving. There’s really nothing to it. You can’t isolate the “I’m not happy” when it’s obviously in relation to how the team is performing.
Also it’s Instagram so he probably didn’t write it anyway.

It is exactly on brand, doesn't matter who typed it. When you open a post "I am not happy" you better make it about your own contribution first, otherwise you risk sounding like an entitled prick. Or use "we are not happy" instead.

 

[bakalhau]

He better pick up his level then. Because we have regressed badly with him, and some of his performances have been head scratchingly poor.

Might as well just close out the contract with every other United player this season then, if he's gotta pick up his level

 

[Gehrman]

What I've seen is his runs and forward passes are truly world-class. If any team adapts to his plays that team would be a serious contender in CL and league.
Building a team around him is not about buying new players, it's about making a team that creates enough chances by simple passes per game and good understanding between players. That should be his last legacy in a team, I really hope his signing makes us a very good attacking team.
Before his arrival, everyone was trying to score and every attacking build-up plays were for themselves. There were more than enough ego games on the field. This would work against smaller teams but never against bigger teams.
Imagine real madrid without Ronaldo last decade, every player play ego-game on the field to make a mess (Like us). Even Di Maria made his ego game with players during his time with united to prove he is an alpha in a team. What I have always believed is every best team needs one and only alpha whether it's a player or manager.

Disagree. We've been twatted in big games. No doubt that he's still got quality despite his age, but this is simply not prime Ronaldo under Saf who had Tevez and Rooney playing to his strengths, or the Ronaldo at Real Madrid who had world class midfielders and playmakers supplying him. I don't think there is anything to suggest that he makes the team a better team. Yes, we're playing get it to Ronaldo and thats it.

 

[Shiva87]

Again, I said Ronaldo is not a good finisher as he's supposed to. I didn't use the word striker.

Sorry if that hurts you, you seem to be a big Ronaldo fan but unfortunately it's true. The stats don't lie. And tbh I started to think this conversation with you is really meaningless. I only have 5 posts a day I don't want to waste my quota on this. So bye.

Wow, that's one of the oddest conclusions you can make about Ronaldo. Literally the best finisher of all time. You are looking at one stat in isolation and coming up with a view. On this basis, Rashford is a better finisher than Ronaldo - which just doesn't make sense right?

 

[Bobski]

Pure finishing ability is overrated, most top strikers convert chances at a similar rate. What sets the best part, as goalscorers, is the ability to get on the end of chances, and Ronaldo is maybe the best ever at that.

 

[Oly Francis]

Wow, that's one of the oddest conclusions you can make about Ronaldo. Literally the best finisher of all time. You are looking at one stat in isolation and coming up with a view. On this basis, Rashford is a better finisher than Ronaldo - which just doesn't make sense right?

That's where it kinda hurts though. Ronaldo was WAY over expected goals for almost a decade. I mean in the 2014-2015 season, he netted 61 from 48 expected goals, which shows he was amazing at finishing. For a couple of years he's been pretty average. Note that i'm not talking about his ability to create a chance (which is very hard to assess with stats) but the pure finishing aspect.

By the way, in terms of pure statistics, Messi is a far better finisher than Ronaldo if you include league games, but Ronaldo did it more often in the CL in critical games.

 

[Mickeza]

Ronaldo boasting about facts - "what a prick!"
Maguire celebrating a goal - "point proven! thatd shut up the critics. Go captain!"

I think the craziest post of 2022 has been found already

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

To those who think that if United don’t get top 4 that Ronaldo will leave, what better club is going to pick him up at his wages at 37 years of age? United is the best he can do in my mind.

 

[Lord Zlatan]

That doesn’t really sound good, hopefully it’s just a way to gee himself and others up but to come out with “I’m not happy” isn’t great no matter the context.

Let’s hope it’s nothing..

Dont think he saying anything none of the rest of us are feeling.