Best managed to put in some top quality football though. Morrison forgot to do that bit.Best in modern day football would be the next Ravel Morrison.
Can't be a top professional.
Cristiano Ronaldo should go down as top 5-6 players of all time
- Thread starter Interval
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GOAT. Happy birthday Ronnie 
I think there is a general consensus. There have been many amazing players and everyone has their favourites but the balance of opinion, as far as I have heard and read, has these four at the top.
As an example of an outlier, my mate thinks Chris Waddle is the GOAT. I loved Waddle but I think my mate is a lone voice.
Funny thread title. The guy is top 2. You then take your pick between him and the other guy.
In a lot of reputable magazines, Cruyff is still ranked higher than CRonaldo and Maradona is still the undisputed number 1. He has been since the 80s and it hasn't changed.
Yes I’m sure 99% of people would agree with you that Maradona is not a GOAT candidate ‘because Vardy and Mahrez won the PL with Leicester.’ Hilarious
Also, where is the evidence that Simeone actually said that?
Overwhelmingly the top 4 are as mentioned. Some have Cruyff in there but these are increasingly in the minority. Maradona is not undisputed no. 1, not sure how you’ve missed the multitude of lists that don’t have him as no.1. He may be your favourite, probably mine too but that he is the greatest is very much disputed.
Did jimmy traore has 700 goals?
I'm not using anything as a stick. It's you that treats 1 wc as the biggest stick in football.
For me anyone that didn't put messi and cr7 at top 5 at least is a troll.
You can say you prefer r9 or Ronaldinho or whoever. But to make a case against ronaldo and messi in favor of past player because they happen to score in 7 matches in 4 years is absurd.
I respect other's opinions, football is a matter of preference at the end of the day. They should just say r9 is their favorite player, but cr7 is better. I respect that.
Saying bullshits (not you maybe) like cr7 can't handle hard man of the 90s, playing with boozes etc is just clutching straws, harder balls harder grass etc. And how r9 carries a team with rivalvo and Robinho dunga cafu carlos on his own to glory.
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Bale's was in a CL final and a better goal
The evolution of Cristiano Ronaldo to become the greatest UCL goalscorer, and smashing his competition in numbers of UCL KO goals, is even more impressive and absurd, as if this was possible, when you look at his early career. He wasn't seen as "best player in the world" material as Messi was or Haaland is seen now. He was a dribbling winger who scored very, very few goals and took him some years to find his footing at top level football in the PL and the UCL. He scored his first UCL goal in his 27th appearance! He was criticized by many as just a showboating player with very little end-product.
In 2007, he truly rose in United and became the best player in the world in 2008. Still, he would be quickly overshadowed by Messi in the following years. From 2009 to 2012, Messi was the best player in the world and put Cristiano to dust. 2010 was a bad year for him. He had great numbers in La Liga, but he was often criticized for being selfish and a bottler in big games, he wasn't even in Top 3 in 2010. People said that he only cared about his hair. There were also stats showing that he tried too often wasteful shots from long distance if the game wasn't going well. I even saw people calling him a player of dumb tactical intelligence! People said that he had a huge ego, but not as much to back him.
All of those criticisms are now deader than anything. Cristiano Ronaldo became the most clinical striker in the world, synonimous of athletic dedication, Mr. UCL Big Game and has now 5 Ballon D'ors, one less than Messi. This seemed such an unlikely scenario in the first years of the 2010s! You would be laughed at back then if you said that CR7 would be talked as potentially a GOAT in the future. Even more if you thought this in the 2000s.
In 2007, he truly rose in United and became the best player in the world in 2008. Still, he would be quickly overshadowed by Messi in the following years. From 2009 to 2012, Messi was the best player in the world and put Cristiano to dust. 2010 was a bad year for him. He had great numbers in La Liga, but he was often criticized for being selfish and a bottler in big games, he wasn't even in Top 3 in 2010. People said that he only cared about his hair. There were also stats showing that he tried too often wasteful shots from long distance if the game wasn't going well. I even saw people calling him a player of dumb tactical intelligence! People said that he had a huge ego, but not as much to back him.
All of those criticisms are now deader than anything. Cristiano Ronaldo became the most clinical striker in the world, synonimous of athletic dedication, Mr. UCL Big Game and has now 5 Ballon D'ors, one less than Messi. This seemed such an unlikely scenario in the first years of the 2010s! You would be laughed at back then if you said that CR7 would be talked as potentially a GOAT in the future. Even more if you thought this in the 2000s.
Disrespect? This place literally aches for him like a mist eyed ex. But there being differing views on him is normal. He isn't a Stefano, Messi, Charlton figure for our club
haha seriously, he’s worshipped on here despite not having played for united in over a decade
Can easily understand that side of it more than those who constantly play down his ability and achievements. It doesn’t make any sense.
There are 2 camps, Messi camp and Ronaldo camp. Both camps have done nothing but play down other player's achievements for a decade now adding new dimensions to the argument all the time.
Ronaldo fans play down Messi's achievements, likewise Messi fans play down Ronaldo's achievements.
If C.Ronaldo scored goals like Ryan Giggs vs Arsenal and Van Nistelrooy ve Fulham then he would be rated higher as a player that has footballing ability by some. That's how some rate their players, not me.
I doubt people watch di stefano live. I dont even think most of us actually watch say 400 of ronaldo games.
They watch youtube footage, dislike cr7 for whatever reason and think themselves as art hippies because liking r9 seems more sophisticated
They watch youtube footage, dislike cr7 for whatever reason and think themselves as art hippies because liking r9 seems more sophisticated
Let me clarify. I’m not sure if I’ve seriously posted where I put Cristiano and Messi in my all time list. They’re probably top 3, top 5 for sure.
But the problem I have with these debates is posters will downplay what the other legends did. Pele only did it in Brazil, R9 never won the UCL and did it with a star studded team, even your R9 comments, Robinho didn’t win a World Cup! Oh and comments like Maradona’s stats aren’t good enough from some posters. It’s almost as nothing existed before 2003 and if it did, it doesn’t count. It’s baffling the lengths some posters go to defend Messi and Cristiano.
Yet its simple fact that Messi and Cristiano have failed to shine at world cups, a tournament that has bonafide legacies of all the other greats minus Di Stefano and Best for differing reasons.
Why can’t people accept these criticisms without downplaying the bloody World Cup now
Messi and CR7 had perfect careers with no failures? Is that what people want to boil it down to?If we can criticise Pele, maradona, R9, Zidane, then we can criticise Messi and Cristiano without the narrative changing to suit agendas.
So we agree they're top 5 at least?Let me clarify. I’m not sure if I’ve seriously posted where I put Cristiano and Messi in my all time list. They’re probably top 3, top 5 for sure.
But the problem I have with these debates is posters will downplay what the other legends did. Pele only did it in Brazil, R9 never won the UCL and did it with a star studded team, even your R9 comments, Robinho didn’t win a World Cup! Oh and comments like Maradona’s stats aren’t good enough from some posters. It’s almost as nothing existed before 2003 and if it did, it doesn’t count. It’s baffling the lengths some posters go to defend Messi and Cristiano.
Yet its simple fact that Messi and Cristiano have failed to shine at world cups, a tournament that has bonafide legacies of all the other greats minus Di Stefano and Best for differing reasons.
Why can’t people accept these criticisms without downplaying the bloody World Cup now
If we can criticise Pele, maradona, R9, Zidane, then we can criticise Messi and Cristiano without the narrative changing to suit agendas.
Case sorted
I'm not a big fan of all this talk about the greatest of all time. I don't think it is fair to compare players across different eras of the game. The game is different. The rules are different. The playing styles are different. The science is different. All a player can do is be the best (or one of the best) in their era. As fans we're biased towards our own era. Players are the same.
You see the same thing with Basketball. Is the GOAT LeBron or MJ? What about Wilt Chamberlain/Bill Russell vs. Magic/Bird vs. Steph/Durant vs. Duncan/Kobe? All different eras.
Some players will likely play well across different eras of the game but again it shouldn't take away from their achievements. Again, the best you can do is be one of the best in your era.
We can argue about Messi vs. Ronaldo all we want. Or Maradona vs. Pele. They play in the same era of the game. Let's avoid comparing across eras.
You see the same thing with Basketball. Is the GOAT LeBron or MJ? What about Wilt Chamberlain/Bill Russell vs. Magic/Bird vs. Steph/Durant vs. Duncan/Kobe? All different eras.
Some players will likely play well across different eras of the game but again it shouldn't take away from their achievements. Again, the best you can do is be one of the best in your era.
We can argue about Messi vs. Ronaldo all we want. Or Maradona vs. Pele. They play in the same era of the game. Let's avoid comparing across eras.
From the players I really get to watch live, Cristiano is definitely number 2 for me. There are some I prefer watching over even his prime, like Ronaldinho, Neymar, Zidane, Robben or Iniesta, but in terms of impact, he's second only to Messi. I can judge earlier players only based on the footage available but based on what I've seen, the Brazilian Ronaldo, Maradona and Pele impressed me more than Cristiano while Best, Cruyff, Zico and Beckenbauer rival at least aren't far behind him. So top 5 is legit I think but so is top 10. Both incredible achievements anyway if you ask me.
What I like about this thread is how it makes the usual suspects take a look into the mirror. It really shows how weak the team achievement and goal stat arguments always were and how eager some were to constantly move the goal posts to get to their favorable outcome.
What I like about this thread is how it makes the usual suspects take a look into the mirror. It really shows how weak the team achievement and goal stat arguments always were and how eager some were to constantly move the goal posts to get to their favorable outcome.
To be fair, that’s never going to happen - and it shouldn’t stop. It’s a link to the past, and it’s one of the great things about sport.
just don’t take it so seriously. I see far too many people get heated about it.
if someone thinks differently to you, so what. Thank goodness we have a game where we can credibly argue that one of a number of players could be the greatest!
Maradona was 20 years younger than Pele, Cristiano Ronaldo is 25 years younger than what Maradona was. Comparing those two is comparing across eras as much as it is to compare Ronaldo to Maradona.
Yeah that was bizzare. By general consensus, Cristiano isn't in the top tier of footballers so I'm not sure why that poster just decided to lump h in with Maradona, Messi, and Pele.
As you said, most people have Cruyff as a top 4 player so he would be ranked ahead of Ronaldo as well, and even Cruyff isn't on a par with the Messi-Maradona-Pele triumvirate.
Jordan has topped every single relevant basketball list and that hasn't changed since the late 90s. Back when there was a higher significance attached to statistical dominance, Wilt ranked 2nd to Jordan in the GOAT discussions in 1998-1999 despite the fact that he only had 2 titles. When the shift towards team success happened, Kareem supplanted Wilt as the guy behind Jordan.
Lately, LeBron has made his case as the 2nd or 3rd best player ever. But the one constant in all those lists has been Jordan at the top by himself because of the combination of statistical dominance (highest PER and win share average in NBA history, in the toughest defensive era) and team success (the most post-merger titles as the number 1 option).
Neither does Kleberson. I don't get this point. The World Cup IS the biggest stick in football. And CR7 or Messi so far had 4 chances to make history at it and failed (altough a decent case can be made for Messi's run in 2014). This is more of a Fox and the Grapes situation in my opinion.
Also, not on the subject, but the brazilian NT was failing big time before R9's return in the World Cup. They only secured their participation in the last qualifying match IIRC.
Or they watched Ronaldo Nazario and think he's much better than Cristiano Ronaldo. Which a lot of people do.
Yet the Brazilian Ronaldo is the last player who would be the hipster's choice. After all, 'R9' was a Nike-rocket-fuelled marketing phenomenon. His superstardom coincided with the explosion in commercialisation of the sport.
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He edges Messi for me as the best ever.
Both are 10/10 players with career-long peaks and no injuries ever. But Ronaldo did the business at more clubs, in more countries, and he won a major International competition.
I can't think of many highlights from Messi's international career.
Both are 10/10 players with career-long peaks and no injuries ever. But Ronaldo did the business at more clubs, in more countries, and he won a major International competition.
I can't think of many highlights from Messi's international career.
apologies for not wading through the previous posts, but does it really matter? theres so many opinions that held as facts, and then almost cultish obsessions with the respective players standing. i think CR7 is a great player, and so is Messi and i like watching them both.
Neither can hold a candle to Zico though. that's just the truth.
Neither can hold a candle to Zico though. that's just the truth.
Cant even score against 10 men Porto.
True, actually.
Pelé, Maradona, Messi, Cristiano
Then there's everyone else
Then there's everyone else
Exactly this! These 4 were in a world of their own.
Pretty much. Then you have Brazillian Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Best who were as good as the top 4 but didn’t have the same career for differing reasons.
There were plenty of united fans prior to 2007 who felt he could be the best in the world. In fact the general consensus was that Rooney, Ronaldo and Messi were the 3 best teenagers in world football.
It was just Ronaldo really frustrated by over elaborating.
That stopped after the world cup in 2006 where he was amazing and he was in my opinion robbed of a Ballon dor in 2017 when he was the best in the world. (Kaka scored a few goals in europe but AC milan finished 5th in Serie A, the united defence he scored twice against in the semi final when we beat them 3-2 at old trafford, had a make shift defence riddled with injuries. Rio and vidic both missed out and I think Evra played right centre back)
You got me there! That goes to show I don't have a clue about previous eras and therefore shouldn't be making comparisons with them.
But you get my point, yeah? And I still stand by it. It is unavoidable that people would do such a thing... I just think there are so many factors that goes making a 'fair comparison' that it is virtually impossible
Di Stefano, Cryuff, Platini, Puskas and Beckenbauer (no order) for me above Best, Ronaldinho, R9 and so on tbh.
Romario was better than Ronaldinho, and arguably better than R9.
By general consensus CR is absolutely in the top tier. Some lists rank him as 5th but most have him in the top 4. You don’t have to look hard on the internet to see that’s true. Quite a few people now have Messi and CR as 1 and 2. No-one has to agree with these lists but they are out there in the dozens.