Criticism is fine (and encouraged) but there are some criticisms thrown at Ole that don't make any sense

[Ludens the Red]

I only subscribe to the first two points, but i think there's plenty to back both of them. They are also both quite related to each other.

1. You are using results to infer tactical nous. Our high number of draws each season hints at this as does the high number of times we get comprehensively outplayed by teams we should be much better than. We rarely get beaten and the talent of our players means we can control possession quite comfortably, but we very frequently have no idea how to break teams down and play out a bore draw. If our preferred way of playing doesn't work it's painfully obvious we have no other ideas other than hoping for a bit of magic from one of our stars. A properly coached team would have a Plan B.

Our lineups are quite random and scattergun. It's far too much of a lottery how and who we will play, which suggests Ole isn't confident in his ability to lineup. Or, he is too confident. Sometimes it works fantastically, sometimes it leaves us neutered. Hence all the draws and random results.

2. I don't see how you can question this and keep a straight face. How many times do we need to see us sit on our hands whilst a game gets away from us, only to bring on hair brained subs in the 88th minute? Keeping Fred on against PSG to wait for an inevitable red card was one of many, but Villareal showed without doubt that he is poor at changing the game. The reasons why are up for debate. Personally i think it ties in with both 1. and his time at Cardiff, he doesn't actually read the game very well as a coach and doesn't know what he needs to do. His skills are elsewhere and that's fine, Ferguson acknowledged he had weaknesses too, but Ole needs to own them and get coaches in who can fill the gaps.

Saved me typing it. You'll get people coming in here quoting him and saying 'top post' but it's not really. The basic premise of the thread does ring some truth. Ole quite clearly isn't completely useless and has many positives as a manager however the two points wumminator presumably tries to dismiss because of a selected sample size are an indication that indeed as he himself admits, "I don't really understand a lot about football myself ". Using the fact we fall behind an excessive amount of times and turn it around to point to tactical nous and strong game changing ability when we have far superior players to most of the teams we play against is actually a really naive thing to do. It also fails to take into account the style of football and the consistency in our performances which seemingly are irrelevant in his world.

The problem I've noticed with you @Wumminator is that you don't always seem to be able to see the bigger picture. You criticise people a lot for talking in absolutes but you kind of do the same thing to be honest. I've said this many times but Manchester United are going to win the majority of games they play because they have better individuals than most teams. If Manchester United fall behind to weaker sides you'd expect that they will turn it around. These are not the games that define Ole. The ones that define him are the ones he gets wrong and he'll be judged on the amount of times that happens. That's how it works at the top, we're not Leeds or West Ham. We shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back for doing things we're supposed to do. So when games like PSG, RB Leipzig, Villarreal, Leicester happen and they go as badly wrong as they did, all in a similar fashion, expect lots of criticism. This cannot continue to happen this season and basically it already did against Southampton. But I guess we came back and drew 1-1 in that game so fantastic right? We got it right in the end tactically?

I know he's competing against World Class managers and we by no means have a faultless team. However a top manager with exceptional in game management would have walked away with two Europa League trophies in the last two seasons. His failure to do this speaks of obvious tactical inadequacies, that doesn't mean he won't have days he gets it right, we know he will but top managers don't get it wrong this much. It's that simple.

 

[The Midnight Rambler]

Great thread.

Full disclosure, big Ole fan but I don't think he'll get us to where we want to be so unless we put a very strong title challenge this season then I will be an OleOut guy.

Would love him to get us winning trophies, that would be brilliant.

My criticism is that he's consistently showed an inability to break down teams who are defensively aggressive, deeper and well organised. Already this season Southampton and Wolves (we should have lost that game) are evidence so I don't see him fixing this.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Bilbo]

It would be nice if someone cleaned up this forum from the toxic tones and people. If you don't agree with tactics and explain why that's a normal post.

Good thread, but ultimately it doesn't come down to opinions about Ole, it comes down to what is said above. The toxicity and twitter style ranting is dragging this forum down. I always thought that was what the newbie system was for.

 

[Verminator]

Thanks @Wumminator. I needed this

 

[glazed]

If Manchester United fall behind to weaker sides you'd expect that they will turn it around. These are not the games that define Ole. The ones that define him are the ones he gets wrong and he'll be judged on the amount of times that happens. That's how it works at the top, we're not Leeds or West Ham. We shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back for doing things we're supposed to do

Ironically this is precisely where Ole struggles for my money. How many times have we struggled to break down the lesser sides when they are well drilled? Those are precisely the sides that City eats for breakfast because they have a tactical setup more suited to doing so.

Yes we usually win in the end, but usually isn't enough to win silverware.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Great ,just what we needed . Another Ole thread. Will start another thread " why Ole shouldn't be managing us " when we lose .

Am I doing this right?

Butt meet hurt.

 

[Borys]

I’ve thought for a while that the problem isn’t Ole, but the coaches he surrounds himself with. He is loyal, which is admirable, but I believe we need a world class assistant instead of Carrick, Phelan, etc.
Ferguson’s best years, in my opinion, were when he brought in experienced International coaches like Carlos, Rene and others.
I back Ole and believe in him and this team, but I think that an “experienced” right hand man is what Ole needs.
Great OP @Wumminator and agree, we wouldn’t have put together this great away run is Ole was out of his depth. I’m excited for this season!!

That definitely is the case. I don't rate this coaching team at all, they get it right sometimes but more often than not our game relies on individuals. That doesn't mean I'd sack Ole as I think he's building a great squad, but this coaching staff I'd dump right away.

 

[VanDeBank]

1) Ole is inept tactically
The fact Manchester United have just set a record for the longest unbeaten record is evidence of this.
3.) Ole has ignored the midfield problem
Not at all. He just can't solve everything at once.

1. It's comparative to other top managers. Tuchel, Pep, etc. The unbeaten record means weird a good decent, it's not a direct measure of Ole's tactical accumen.

3. This one just reads like an excuse. No one forced Ole to buy Sancho. He's had hundreds of million to spend over multiple years now. He thinks this midfield isn't a problem, or he'd have not but an offensive minded MF like VDB, or gotten a ton of wingers, etc. "He can't solve everything at once" is a laughable defense. He thinks this midfield is good enough as he's had ample opportunity to prioritize it more.

2 and 4 aren't criticisms I share.

 

[Mickson]

I think United fans, in general, are quite unique for a big club in that way that we always defend our manager, and gives him time. It probably comes from Fergie and from our history to be patient and always give everyone time. That is a good and bad thing. In this case, sadly, it's a bad thing. Sometimes you just have to realize that the man sitting on the bench is not good enough. I don't think many have a personal agenda against Ole, it's just that we don't think he is good enough, and the games against Southampton and Wolves it's a clear example of why. He hasn't developed our footballing side, and every summer when we get to the new season I think for myself "maybe he has thought about something new, changed anything, changed his midfield preference. Changed his style (rumors of 4-3-3) but no, this is who he is. This is what he is going for. He won't come up with a tactical masterclass, his idea is to build a team with world-class players who can win him games with a clutch moment (just like against Wolves). The problem is that won't hold, in the long run. You need something else. You need coaching, and our midfield is too weak to just let it be, and the midfield is the key, the heart of the team. His results aren't dismal (although I don't think they are anything special at all) and his building of a squad is by far the best since Fergie. It's just that he isn't a good coach, and that's why I don't think we will win any big trophies, regardless of players. So many times I've heard "yeah but if we get Sancho!", "yes, but...Varane!" then we will win. I don't think we will. Our football looks quite the same, regardless of who plays. The big difference is that he has so many good players, good individuals, who can win us games that we often sneak out a win in the end. But it's not sustainable to win big trophies. Those teams who win big trophies have world-class squads AND are well-drilled. I think Tuchel and Lampard are the greatest examples of what a great rather than mediocre manager can do, and I feel that will be the case with United. I don't want him fired, and I have no rush to do anything, but if a world-class manager gets available, I think we should jump on that chance.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

What are your expectations for the season? @Wumminator

Very curious.

 

[Andycoleno9]

What are your expectations for the season? @Wumminator

Very curious.

Yes, me too

 

[tomaldinho1]

Saved me typing it. You'll get people coming in here quoting him and saying 'top post' but it's not really. The basic premise of the thread does ring some truth. Ole quite clearly isn't completely useless and has many positives as a manager however the two points wumminator presumably tries to dismiss because of a selected sample size are an indication that indeed as he himself admits, "I don't really understand a lot about football myself ". Using the fact we fall behind an excessive amount of times and turn it around to point to tactical nous and strong game changing ability when we have far superior players to most of the teams we play against is actually a really naive thing to do. It also fails to take into account the style of football and the consistency in our performances which seemingly are irrelevant in his world.

The problem I've noticed with you @Wumminator is that you don't always seem to be able to see the bigger picture. You criticise people a lot for talking in absolutes but you kind of do the same thing to be honest. I've said this many times but Manchester United are going to win the majority of games they play because they have better individuals than most teams. If Manchester United fall behind to weaker sides you'd expect that they will turn it around. These are not the games that define Ole. The ones that define him are the ones he gets wrong and he'll be judged on the amount of times that happens. That's how it works at the top, we're not Leeds or West Ham. We shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back for doing things we're supposed to do. So when games like PSG, RB Leipzig, Villarreal, Leicester happen and they go as badly wrong as they did, all in a similar fashion, expect lots of criticism. This cannot continue to happen this season and basically it already did against Southampton. But I guess we came back and drew 1-1 in that game so fantastic right? We got it right in the end tactically?

I know he's competing against World Class managers and we by no means have a faultless team. However a top manager with exceptional in game management would have walked away with two Europa League trophies in the last two seasons. His failure to do this speaks of obvious tactical inadequacies, that doesn't mean he won't have days he gets it right, we know he will but top managers don't get it wrong this much. It's that simple.

Exactly this.

No one aside from some Wums think Ole is tactically inept, many simply think he's not elite level & we aspire to be an elite football club. For the team we have to not have won anything, when even minor trophies were in our reach, should worry even the most ardent Ole Inners around. Villarreal, Seville, RBL, Leicester games aren't random one offs, losing to City (x2) and Chelsea are ok but even then, we regularly do well against them in the league, it seems at crunch time the big name managers always get one over Ole.

People will keep referring to how hard it is for teams to challenge City but, actually, since Ole has come in we've had Arsenal, Leicester, Chelsea, Pool winning trophies domestically and internationally. It's very open.


An an aside, why does anyone praise or criticise Ole for players salaries/fees? Ole will say 'player x or y can go' and that's it, he's not negotiating anything...it shouldn't even be discussed as part of his pros or cons.

 

[Wumminator]

What are your expectations for the season? @Wumminator

Very curious.

Title challenge and a decent few cup runs.
Based on a variety of variables.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Title challenge and a decent few cup runs.
Based on a variety of variables.

At least your expectations are somewhat high.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Title challenge and a decent few cup runs.
Based on a variety of variables.

What decent cup run means exactly? (Including CL)

 

[DownRiver]

1) Although we have the longest unbeaten run in away games on PL record, we have an appalling home record. This is very worrying, especially when the fact there were no fans within the COVID-19 pandemic meant that this record was possible. At any other time, there would be no away unbeatable record.

2) A point you made about Ole's tactical nous in terms of coming from behind meant he was a brilliant manager is simply wrong. Why were we constantly conceding first for so many games away in the first place? We should be thinking about motivation from the get go from the players, not how they kept on coming back from situations that they didn't need to be in.

3) We are doubting Ole because when it comes down to the nitty gritty and you have to win a final or semi-final, he has not shown his tactical ability to win finals. I don't care if he had an unbeaten away record, I want us to win. Man utd is not work experience for him and the coaches to fail until they get it right after 4-5 years down the line.

4) He has been given the money and he chose not to get a DM. Also, you don't need a world class player in every position to win the league, he chose his bed and now needs to lay on it. If he doesn't win the premier League (or at least challenge to the end) or win a couple trophies, be needs to go. What does he want? Another year after this with a DM and start again?

 

[Wumminator]

What decent cup run means exactly? (Including CL)

Go far in cups depending on the draw.

If we get knocked out in second round of CL or fourth round of the FA cup but we play PSG/City that is understandable

 

[alexthelion]

4) He has been given the money and he chose not to get a DM.

There have been plenty of quotes all through the transfer window that he wants a DM at least. No need to make things up to hold against him.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Go far in cups depending on the draw.

If we get knocked out in second round of CL or fourth round of the FA cup but we play PSG/City that is understandable

Oh come on, man. I agree about title challenge in some way. No team and no manager in the world can't guarantee title in PL but it is not the same when you lose title by having 90 points and playing great football or having 80 points with average football
But one trophy with this squad is a must. No matter how shit or good draw is. 4 competitions. You must win one.


See, this is where all fight starts about Ole. It has been 3 years and some of you still don't demand trophies from Manchester United manager.

 

[croadyman]

Oh come on, man. I agree about title challenge in some way. No team and no manager in the world can't guarantee title in PL but it is not the same when you lose title by having 90 points and playing great football or having 80 points with average football
But one trophy with this squad is a must. No matter how shit or good draw is. 4 competitions. You must win one.


See, this is where all fight starts about Ole. It has been 3 years and some of you still don't demand trophies from Manchester United manager.

That's mainly because our scumbag yankee leech owners also don't demand that from him either, just top 4 please Ole

 

[Regalia]

Saved me typing it. You'll get people coming in here quoting him and saying 'top post' but it's not really. The basic premise of the thread does ring some truth. Ole quite clearly isn't completely useless and has many positives as a manager however the two points wumminator presumably tries to dismiss because of a selected sample size are an indication that indeed as he himself admits, "I don't really understand a lot about football myself ". Using the fact we fall behind an excessive amount of times and turn it around to point to tactical nous and strong game changing ability when we have far superior players to most of the teams we play against is actually a really naive thing to do. It also fails to take into account the style of football and the consistency in our performances which seemingly are irrelevant in his world.

The problem I've noticed with you @Wumminator is that you don't always seem to be able to see the bigger picture. You criticise people a lot for talking in absolutes but you kind of do the same thing to be honest. I've said this many times but Manchester United are going to win the majority of games they play because they have better individuals than most teams. If Manchester United fall behind to weaker sides you'd expect that they will turn it around. These are not the games that define Ole. The ones that define him are the ones he gets wrong and he'll be judged on the amount of times that happens. That's how it works at the top, we're not Leeds or West Ham. We shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back for doing things we're supposed to do. So when games like PSG, RB Leipzig, Villarreal, Leicester happen and they go as badly wrong as they did, all in a similar fashion, expect lots of criticism. This cannot continue to happen this season and basically it already did against Southampton. But I guess we came back and drew 1-1 in that game so fantastic right? We got it right in the end tactically?

I know he's competing against World Class managers and we by no means have a faultless team. However a top manager with exceptional in game management would have walked away with two Europa League trophies in the last two seasons. His failure to do this speaks of obvious tactical inadequacies, that doesn't mean he won't have days he gets it right, we know he will but top managers don't get it wrong this much. It's that simple.

This reply (along with the one quoted within by @11101) basically renders this whole thread dead on arrival. Ole is not useless, we know that. Nobody is saying that about him (except people just wanting to be toxic). But visual evidence on the pitch has shown many times that when we underperform, if we pull out a win, it is in spite of his contributions. We have enough talent in this squad that a football nobody like me could probably go a few games and get some wins too. That does not mean I am a suddenly worthy to be manager of the biggest club in the world or that I am a tactical genius. Heck, if we gave ol' Moyes enough time to overcome that initial awe and shock of taking over from SAF, I wager he would have had us performing very similarly after 3-4 years too. We look lost and disjointed so often that everytime I switch to watch another game, even Brighton and Tottenham look like prime Barcelona. We only have 1 trick and that is countering into space that lesser opponents too naive to adapt allow us (read: Leeds). So no, the rational criticism of Ole as Manchester United manager is totally warranted and it will continue as long as our deadbeat owners keep thinking that we do not need to aim higher than Top 4, or until Ole suddenly becomes a tactical maestro on a consistent basis and makes me eat my words (which he might eventually after the 5/6/7 years we seem to want to keep him for).

 

[Teja]

1) Ole is inept tactically
The fact Manchester United have just set a record for the longest unbeaten record is evidence of this. You simply can not go that long in the most competitive league unbeaten if you don't have a clue what you are doing. The fact that Ole has the best record against Pep of anyone who has ever played against him (as far as I am aware) should also go to dismissing that fallacy. If you want to argue that tactics can be improved, then I would love to read your posts. I don't really understand a lot about football myself. But the idea that he's completely useless is thrown around here a lot and it doesn't follow.

I feel like the bar for "inept" is quite fuzzy. Is he better than the average premier league manager? Of course. Is he a top four caliber manager? Probably. Is he of the same standard as Tuchel / Guardiola / Klopp tactically? No. Granted these are the three best football coaches in the world right now, so the bar is pretty damn high. Can he make up for his tactical deficiencies by relying on coaches + his excellence in man management? Remains to be seen.

Common complaints:

He has some of the best players in the league at his disposal and yet we look more clueless than basically any other top team when building play out of the back or when pressing to win possession. And no, it's not a personnel thing. You need to spend only five minutes rewatching our "press" to see how clueless they look when attempting the high press. Metrics back it up. Worst amongst the top sides in passes allowed per defensive action. 5th in xG / npXG. 5th in possession. 4th in xGA.

We can't / won't attempt to control games against the top sides. He knows how to hit teams on the break and he does that very well - we've known that since the day he signed. But we never evenly match City / Pool in terms of possession or control of the game - it's always under the cosh, giving the ball away in dangerous areas and a bunch of defence followed by a couple of dangerous counter attacks.

The moment it feels like an even game when we play City / Pool will be the moment I'll shut up about his tactics. The closest we've come so far are our games against PSG last year - it wasn't a smash and grab underdog winning against the mighty Man City performance. It was proper football.

 

[Tom Cato]

It all boils down to him not being ultimately good enough. It's that simple, both sides go towards extreme. But, Ole isn't tactically cut out to win PL/CL, which should be our aim with this squad. He's into his full 3rd season, we've seen enough to know his limitations. Our quality of football is dross in so many matches we play, there's no consistency. It's a systematic issue, not a personnel one. Which is why no amount of signings can make up for his lack of managerial ability at the very top.

Wouldn't a metric be that we've plateaued? Which by my recollection we have not, we're even off to a significantly stronger start to the season than last year.

Pretty lucky if we keep progressing while the manager is clueless. After having spent a playing career at Manchester United under the greatest manager the game has seen. Season 1: 3rd Season 2: 2nd Season 3; Gameweek 3 (best season start thus far: "The manager is limited".

This place will repeat this same mantra even if we finish 2nd with 90 points.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Wouldn't a metric be that we've plateaued? Which by my recollection we have not, we're even off to a significantly stronger start to the season than last year.

Pretty lucky if we keep progressing while the manager is clueless. After having spent a playing career at Manchester United under the greatest manager the game has seen. Season 1: 3rd Season 2: 2nd Season 3; Gameweek 3 (best season start thus far: "The manager is limited".

This place will repeat this same mantra even if we finish 2nd with 90 points.

It really really wouldn't

 

[Tom Cato]

It really really wouldn't

We'll see. The Caf always finds a way to sneak some disappointment in among all the other great posters here

 

[greatscott9930]

Of the managers you’re comparing him to as “the best”

a) one is retired for a decade
b) two are the same person
c) one has got the same points as Ole has (almost) since he took over.

Hilarious

 

[largelyworried]

This place will repeat this same mantra even if we finish 2nd with 90 points.

No it won’t. Getting to 90 points will involve a far higher week by week performance level than we’ve seen under Ole so far. That will change a lot of minds

 

[croadyman]

This will never happen in a million years but think our yankee leech owners need to communicate that they expect more from him than just finishing in the top 4 with Ronny signed but they are all about the Champions League money so wasting my breath

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Why did he finish second last year and why has he broken a very impressive premier league record?

Bit silly to put that all on the manager, he’s got some incredibly talented players and a hell of a squad.

Can’t wait to see what these boys can do this season.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It really really wouldn't

Tom talking utter drivel as per…

He’s changed mine and many other opinions two seasons running with nothing like a 90 point season. If he gets 90+ points this season the vast vast majority of fans who aren’t utter morons would be lauding him.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don’t understand the thread title. Criticism is fine (and encouraged) Who encourages criticism? There’s a whole thread dedicated to doing the exact opposite of that.

 

[pocco]

Why did he finish second last year and why has he broken a very impressive premier league record?

Well that's pretty obvious, no? Liverpool had injury issues. Serious issues whereby their first choice midfield became their first choice defence, and so on.

Chelsea struggled under a failing manager. As soon as they corrected that, they probably won the most points in the league under Tuchel. Plus won the CL, where we got dumped out in the group stages when we had a ridiculous lead at the top of the table. I digress a bit, but a top manager would have navigated that group.

Spurs were just poor all around and haven't had the financial backing over the last few years that we have had.

Plus quite a lot of games like the Wolves game where we won through smash and grab winners or individual inspiration, having looked completely fecked for most of the game.

Ole's tactical nous certainly wasn't proven last season, as much as you'd like to believe.

 

[Mickson]

There have been plenty of quotes all through the transfer window that he wants a DM at least. No need to make things up to hold against him.

Maybe he wants a DM, maybe he wants a keeper, I think he also wants to have nine world-class players on the bench. I actually believe that he wants a lot of things (like all managers). However, he chose not to sign a DM. It is as simple as that. We bought four players and none of them were a DM.

 

[Speako]

All good points by the OP. The biggest challenge we have is that Ole is learning on the job, and we have to decide if we’re happy to accommodate that learning journey whilst managing our team, or replace him with someone more experienced and watch him grow elsewhere.

He may never be good enough, or he may end up being better than Pep, but it will be years before he fully understands his trade and can be truly quantified.

I for one think he’s turned the club and team around enough to be given a fighting chance, I’m not sure all our fanbase think the same and I do understand why. I stood on the Stretty week after week calling for Fergie’s head 32 years ago and look how that turned out.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Well that's pretty obvious, no? Liverpool had injury issues. Serious issues whereby their first choice midfield became their first choice defence, and so on.

Chelsea struggled under a failing manager. As soon as they corrected that, they probably won the most points in the league under Tuchel. Plus won the CL, where we got dumped out in the group stages when we had a ridiculous lead at the top of the table. I digress a bit, but a top manager would have navigated that group.

Spurs were just poor all around and haven't had the financial backing over the last few years that we have had.

Plus quite a lot of games like the Wolves game where we won through smash and grab winners or individual inspiration, having looked completely fecked for most of the game.

Ole's tactical nous certainly wasn't proven last season, as much as you'd like to believe.

Aah, the old everybody else was shit argument.

 

[Kush]

By your shit logic Pep isn’t tactically cut out to win the UCL either considering he’s been out-thought “tactically” pretty much every year in the completion.

He’s won 2 CL, there’s pedigree there. What pedigree does Solskjaer have? Thank you, don’t write silly analogies.

But to say he doesn’t have the quality to win a league or UCL when until this year we’ve not even been close to a favorite for either (and still aren’t) is just pure bias.

Once again conjuring fictional arguments which I didn’t even write. The reason why I wrote that, is 3 season is an incredibly long time. I’ve seen him drop klangers time and time again. I’ve seen us being outplayed by teams with 1/10th of our budget and talent. We saw it again, like 2 days back. When will folks realise no amount of signings will cover up for managerial ability? He’ll have more world class players to pull him through but ultimately our biggest problem has been consistency throughout his tenure. Consistency in performance, you never know which Utd will turn up. Will it be a fast and positive Utd, or dull and laborious.

Reason why folks are up in arms about previous 2 performances is because they bear resemblance to many performances from previous 2 years. It’s not just one-off game, it’s too many. Results ultimately catch up to performances, this one will be no different if our football doesn’t improve significantly post-International break.

Sure if we fail in both competitions without a real challenge this year then I’ll gladly say he has to go, but doing so beforehand just shows your hand as someone who didn’t want him at the club in the first place and is reluctant to give him credit for anything that has occurred while he’s been here.

Now you’re pretending to read my mind. First go and read what poster has written, in addition to their follow up post before you start putting words in their mouth.

Wouldn't a metric be that we've plateaued? Which by my recollection we have not, we're even off to a significantly stronger start to the season than last year.


Pretty lucky if we keep progressing while the manager is clueless. After having spent a playing career at Manchester United under the greatest manager the game has seen. Season 1: 3rd Season 2: 2nd Season 3; Gameweek 3 (best season start thus far: "The manager is limited".

Funny how you quoted this post, and not my follow up which fully breaks down why our progress (if any) is marginal at best. And, no amount of drumming up 2nd placed finish will cover up the fact, that we are actually the 2nd best team in the country. We weren’t when we finished there under Mourinho, we aren’t now. Anyone with a pair of eyes who’s watched us play would know that. We failed to beat a poor Villarreal side in the final and we have folks like you bleating progress. Give me a break.

This place will repeat this same mantra even if we finish 2nd with 90 points.

Another fortune teller. I can also write one. Once we don’t win anything this year, or challenge for PL. Folks will still make excuses for Ole, “no DM”.

Let him finish on 90 points and then we shall talk. We are talking about a 16pts jump from last season. So far nothing in his tenure has suggested, he’d suddenly figure it out and make such huge strides. But, if he does, I’ll be the first to give him his dues. Alternatively, if he doesn’t, I can still see you writing strawmans.

 

[criticalanalysis]

He’s won 2 CL, there’s pedigree there. What pedigree does Solskjaer have? Thank you, don’t write silly analogies.



Once again conjuring fictional arguments which I didn’t even write. The reason why I wrote that, is 3 season is an incredibly long time. I’ve seen him drop klangers time and time again. I’ve seen us being outplayed by teams with 1/10th of our budget and talent. We saw it again, like 2 days back. When will folks realise no amount of signings will cover up for managerial ability? He’ll have more world class players to pull him through but ultimately our biggest problem has been consistency throughout his tenure. Consistency in performance, you never know which Utd will turn up. Will it be a fast and positive Utd, or dull and laborious.

Reason why folks are up in arms about previous 2 performances is because they bear resemblance to many performances from previous 2 years. It’s not just one-off game, it’s too many. Results ultimately catch up to performances, this one will be no different if our football doesn’t improve significantly post-International break.




Now you’re pretending to read my mind. First go and read what poster has written, in addition to their follow up post before you start putting words in their mouth.




Funny how you quoted this post, and not my follow up which fully breaks down why our progress (if any) is marginal at best. And, no amount of drumming up 2nd placed finish will cover up the fact, that we are actually the 2nd best team in the country. We weren’t when we finished there under Mourinho, we aren’t now. Anyone with a pair of eyes who’s watched us play would know that. We failed to beat a poor Villarreal side in the final and we have folks like you bleating progress. Give me a break.



Another fortune teller. I can also write one. Once we don’t win anything this year, or challenge for PL. Folks will still make excuses for Ole, “no DM”.

Let him finish on 90 points and then we shall talk. We are talking about a 16pts jump from last season. So far nothing in his tenure has suggested, he’d suddenly figure it out and make such huge strides. But, if he does, I’ll be the first to give him his dues. Alternatively, if he doesn’t, I can still see you writing strawmans.

Insert thumbs up icon.

Spot on.

 

[jem]

I feel like the bar for "inept" is quite fuzzy. Is he better than the average premier league manager? Of course. Is he a top four caliber manager? Probably. Is he of the same standard as Tuchel / Guardiola / Klopp tactically? No. Granted these are the three best football coaches in the world right now, so the bar is pretty damn high. Can he make up for his tactical deficiencies by relying on coaches + his excellence in man management? Remains to be seen.

Common complaints:

He has some of the best players in the league at his disposal and yet we look more clueless than basically any other top team when building play out of the back or when pressing to win possession. And no, it's not a personnel thing. You need to spend only five minutes rewatching our "press" to see how clueless they look when attempting the high press. Metrics back it up. Worst amongst the top sides in passes allowed per defensive action. 5th in xG / npXG. 5th in possession. 4th in xGA.

We can't / won't attempt to control games against the top sides. He knows how to hit teams on the break and he does that very well - we've known that since the day he signed. But we never evenly match City / Pool in terms of possession or control of the game - it's always under the cosh, giving the ball away in dangerous areas and a bunch of defence followed by a couple of dangerous counter attacks.

The moment it feels like an even game when we play City / Pool will be the moment I'll shut up about his tactics. The closest we've come so far are our games against PSG last year - it wasn't a smash and grab underdog winning against the mighty Man City performance. It was proper football.

Who is an example of an average PL manager that Ole is of course better than?

 

[Teja]

Who is an example of an average PL manager that Ole is of course better than?

I'd have him over basically any current PL manager that's not Klopp / Tuchel / Pep. I don't think that's particularly controversial, Rodgers is the only other serious comparison here but I think majority would say Ole is the better manager.

The hipster managers like Hasenhüttl, Bielsa (and we can probably include Conte, Sarri there) have their own baggage and I'd rather not deal with that.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I'd have him over basically any current PL manager that's not Klopp / Tuchel / Pep. I don't think that's particularly controversial, Rodgers is the only other serious comparison here but I think majority would say Ole is the better manager.

The hipster managers like Hasenhüttl, Bielsa (and we can probably include Conte, Sarri there) have their own baggage and I'd rather not deal with that.

I agree with your post, but throwing Conte in that group is a huge disservice to him even with his baggage.