Critics one sided in Benitez debate

thoward

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August 11, 2009
Critics one-sided in Rafael Benitez debate

http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/2009/08/fans-onesided-in-benitez-debate.html

Oliver Kay

So, Rafael Benitez is at it already, is he? Bleating about transfer money before the season has even begun? Getting his excuses in first? This from the man who has spent £230 million in five years at Liverpool, and still has not won the Premier League title!

Sorry about that. There is an unwritten rule that you are allowed to tell only one side of the story when analysing Benitez’s record at Liverpool, so it seemed only right to start in that vein. While we’re at it, Benitez blew their hopes of the Premier League trophy last season by ranting at Sir Alex Ferguson, refusing to pick Fernando Torres, selling Robbie Keane and insisting on zonal marking at corners. Of course he did.

Benitez is not without his idiosyncracies, but to judge from some of the reactions to my Final Word column yesterday and to a couple of comments he made in which he was vague about the funds the club’s owners were making available to him, you would think he was the one who was responsible for Liverpool’s various ills.

Thrifty summer could cost Liverpool

Someone e-mailed me yesterday with a list of Benitez’s 83 signings as Liverpool managers, listing six as successes and 77 as flops. Given that the flops included players such as Fabio Aurelio (first-choice left back signed on a free transfer) and Dirk Kuyt (£9m, vastly underrated) as well as nine home-grown players who have come through the youth academy, as well as the admittedly terrifying number of teenagers the club imported from abroad, you might say that the list was rather skewed.

Clearly, Benitez has made a number of dodgy signings. At right back alone, you can list Josemi, Jan Kromkamp and Philipp Degen. Further forward there have been Antonio Nunez, Mark Gonzalez, Sebastian Leto, Fernando Morientes, Craig Bellamy and, of course Keane, none of whom lasted more than 18 months.

But these are not the names that define Benitez’s success or failure at Anfield. He likes to wheel and deal, far more than is normal for a manager at a club of Liverpool’s size, but it is beyond dispute that his net outlay of £85m over the past five years (£230m spent, £145m recouped) has brought a huge improvement in a team and a squad that came within four points of winning the Premier League last season.

My point yesterday was that Benitez would have needed only a reasonable amount of backing in the transfer market this summer in order to establish Liverpool, the second-best team in the country last season, ahead of a weakened Manchester United, a transitional Chelsea, an inexperienced Arsenal and an embryonic Manchester City as favourites for the Premier League.

By reasonable, I mean even something like his past net annual budget, which has amounted to £17m.
Nothing excessive, just the kind of outlay that might have facilitated a little fine-tuning. For a club that made a pre-tax profit of £10m in the most recent financial year, since which they have raised another £5.8m in the transfer market (with the outlay on Albert Riera, Peter Gulasci and Victor Palsson more than offset by guaranteed fees of at least £12.8m for the sales of Keane and Steve Finnan) and generated vast sums with their success in finishing second in the Premier League and reaching the quarter-finals of the Champions League.

On the face of it, he has made two big-money signings: Glen Johnson from Portsmouth for £17.5m and Alberto Aquilani from AS Roma for £20m. And yes, both fees look a little inflated. But they have been offset, almost to the pound, by the sales of Xabi Alonso, Alvaro Arbeloa, Sebastian Leto, Paul Anderson, Adam Hammill and Jack Hobbs.

There have been notable costs this summer in the new contracts for Torres, Daniel Agger, Kuyt and others, including Benitez, not to mention the expensive business of paying off an enormous number of staff in a dramatic revamp of the club’s technical and youth academy staff.

But by far the biggest drain on Liverpool’s resources is the debts brought on by those wonderful owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr – huge interest bills to be paid on money borrowed so that, erm, they could keep clinging on to a club that they clearly cannot take forward. Money well spent, I’m sure you will agree.

Benitez left with striking problem

Could the Liverpool manager have made better use of his resources this summer? Time will tell. A personal view is that he needs another striker as cover for and sometimes as a counterpoint for Torres. But strikers (with the exception of Michael Owen) cost money. Benitez has had none. When it comes to the final reckoning at the end of the season, which admittedly is 38 games away, I wonder whether that might the difference.
 

karan316

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What about people like Bellamy and Crouch, bit hard to class them as successes but definitely not failures given that they were sold for more than they cost.
 

Flying Fox

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Now Liverpool only need marginal improvement to bring along another title.....
Loved this little bit here from the comments.

To be fair though, it would be easy working for the clowns that are Hicks and Gillett
 

Laphroaig

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In fairness I wouldn't judge any of those players as either a success or a failure. I don't see why it has to be a dichotomy like that (I mean that said, he does have an awful lot of players that were failures)
Indeed, I'd part your list into three, very good ones, good ones and decent or mediocre ones. He's made 4-5 very good signings, 4-5 good ones, quite a few neutral or mediocre signings, and a lot of poor and ridiculous ones.

I don't think he's every made a really clever signing though. His best transfers has been fairly costly (Torres, Alonso, Mascherano - I don't know what he paid for Reina). So although these players have become successful for Liverpool, I wouldn't rate the transfers as great, not in the same bracket as SAF's shrewdest transfer dealings (like Schmeichel, Cantona, Ronaldo, etc).
 

Pogue Mahone

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Indeed, I'd part your list into three, very good ones, good ones and decent or mediocre ones. He's made 4-5 very good signings, 4-5 good ones, quite a few neutral or mediocre signings, and a lot of poor and ridiculous ones.

I don't think he's every made a really clever signing though. His best transfers has been fairly costly (Torres, Alonso, Mascherano - I don't know what he paid for Reina). So although these players have become successful for Liverpool, I wouldn't rate the transfers as great, not in the same bracket as SAF's shrewdest transfer dealings (like Schmeichel, Cantona, Ronaldo, etc).
Agreed.

In terms of the best bang for his buck, Reina was probably his best signing. Apart from him, Benitez has always got pretty much what he paid for.
 

Donkey's Ears

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Oliver Kay is awful. Did anyone see his selection of the 'invincibles' as the greatest English team of the last 25 years?
 

noodlehair

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It sounds almost as derranged, retarded and angry as the replies to the original article undoubtedly were.

I particularly like the last bit;

Could the Liverpool manager have made better use of his resources this summer? Time will tell. A personal view is that he needs another striker as cover for and sometimes as a counterpoint for Torres. But strikers (with the exception of Michael Owen) cost money. Benitez has had none. When it comes to the final reckoning at the end of the season, which admittedly is 38 games away, I wonder whether that might the difference.
He just admitted in the same article that Liverpool had spent £17m on Glen Johnson (that's a lot of "no money" to have), after also running off an entire list of shit fullbacks they'd signed previously.

and Michael Owen was available, and would have almost certainly signed for Liverpool had they made an offer.
 

Partizan

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August 11, 2009
Critics one-sided in Rafael Benitez debate

http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/2009/08/fans-onesided-in-benitez-debate.html

Oliver Kay

So, Rafael Benitez is at it already, is he? Bleating about transfer money before the season has even begun? Getting his excuses in first? This from the man who has spent £230 million in five years at Liverpool, and still has not won the Premier League title!

Sorry about that. There is an unwritten rule that you are allowed to tell only one side of the story when analysing Benitez’s record at Liverpool, so it seemed only right to start in that vein. While we’re at it, Benitez blew their hopes of the Premier League trophy last season by ranting at Sir Alex Ferguson, refusing to pick Fernando Torres, selling Robbie Keane and insisting on zonal marking at corners. Of course he did.


.
Yep, that sums it up very well.
 

Dyslexic Untied

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He's had more than 6 successes.

Alonso
Torres
Reina
Mascherano
Kuyt
Benayoun
Aurelio
Agger
Garcia
Arbeloa
Riera

are all players that are either successful signings, or we haven't had time to tell yet. Either way they're not failures.

Skrtel should be added to that list IMO.

Is and will continue to be a success, again IMO.
 

Dumbstar

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He's had more than 6 successes.

Alonso
Torres
Reina
Mascherano
Kuyt
Benayoun
Aurelio
Agger
Garcia
Arbeloa
Riera

are all players that are either successful signings, or we haven't had time to tell yet. Either way they're not failures.
Including Skrtel, you could argue these are 80% of Rafa's major signings since he came to the club, i.e. some of his most expensive (net). Maybe you could throw Crouch in or not - debatable.

The rest are just cheap-ish fodder, as with any club. They come, try to impress and get shipped out if not good enough.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Including Skrtel, you could argue these are 80% of Rafa's major signings since he came to the club, i.e. some of his most expensive (net). Maybe you could throw Crouch in or not - debatable.

The rest are just cheap-ish fodder, as with any club. They come, try to impress and get shipped out if not good enough.
As with any club? Really? Care to list the dozens of "cheap-ish fodder" signed by SAF and Wenger?
 

Kraftwerker

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Oliver Kay is awful. Did anyone see his selection of the 'invincibles' as the greatest English team of the last 25 years?
He's an unashamed Liverpool fan, so it would kill him to pick a United team. That also obviously explains this Benitez article.

Is it just me or have Liverpool fans simply become failure justifiers? It seems to be all they do these days - try to justify Benitez's failure.

This Kay gimp has started it already, before the season's even begun.
 

Paddy

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Really! :eek:

Got a link? That just blows my mind.
Not sure there'll be an available link. They released a 'Top 10s' pullout the other day that included the 'Best Ever Premiership Midfielders' one that earned it's own thread by leaving Scholesy out. The Best English Club Sides of the past 25 years included our 92-96, 98-03, and 06-09 if I remember correctly (years are a rough guess tbh but it was 3 of our Prem years sides). As well as Dalglish's Blackburn and Keegan's Newcastle (:eek:).
 

green demon

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August 11, 2009
Critics one-sided in Rafael Benitez debate

http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/2009/08/fans-onesided-in-benitez-debate.html

Oliver Kay

So, Rafael Benitez is at it already, is he? Bleating about transfer money before the season has even begun? Getting his excuses in first? This from the man who has spent £230 million in five years at Liverpool, and still has not won the Premier League title!

Sorry about that. There is an unwritten rule that you are allowed to tell only one side of the story when analysing Benitez’s record at Liverpool
And this hack has done just that with the very fanciful beatification of a good, probably, but not great manager. One would think from reading this rubbish that he is Matt Busby, Bill Shankly, Jock Stein and Brian Clough all rolled into one.
 

GloryHunter07

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I dont think Babel can be listed as a total failure (yet), has been hampered by the fact that he rarely gets to play.
 

Donkey's Ears

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Not sure there'll be an available link. They released a 'Top 10s' pullout the other day that included the 'Best Ever Premiership Midfielders' one that earned it's own thread by leaving Scholesy out. The Best English Club Sides of the past 25 years included our 92-96, 98-03, and 06-09 if I remember correctly (years are a rough guess tbh but it was 3 of our Prem years sides). As well as Dalglish's Blackburn and Keegan's Newcastle (:eek:).
Here you go: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article6789124.ece

I just find it incredible that he puts a team that won one championship and nothing else, set no records in terms of goals scored or points, and failed to repeat their success at all is rated above two United teams who won three championships in a row and European cups and other domestic cups, above a Chelsea team that won it twice in a row and of course this is not mentioning any Liverpool team.

He is a complete imbecile, an impression I must say which is only strengthened by watching him struggle to string a coherent sentence together on that god awful show the Sunday Supplement.
 

Gio

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Here you go: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article6789124.ece

I just find it incredible that he puts a team that won one championship and nothing else, set no records in terms of goals scored or points, and failed to repeat their success at all is rated above two United teams who won three championships in a row and European cups and other domestic cups, above a Chelsea team that won it twice in a row and of course this is not mentioning any Liverpool team.

He is a complete imbecile, an impression I must say which is only strengthened by watching him struggle to string a coherent sentence together on that god awful show the Sunday Supplement.
Well the Times is nothing but expensive bog roll these days so it doesn't surprise me that their chief football writer ranks an Arsenal team which was truly second-rate in Europe as the greatest English side of the last 25 years.
 

Paddy

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5: Liverpool 1987-90

The football that Liverpool played in 1987-88, with John Barnes a mesmerising presence on the left wing, was simply irresistible. They would surely have been higher up this list had the ban on English clubs’ from European competition not denied them the chance to measure themselves against the great AC Milan team of the same era.
I read that, scrolled down to the comments and what did I, quite predictably, see as the first one:

Denied them??? Whose fault was it?
 

Decotron

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He's had more than 6 successes.

Alonso
Torres
Reina
Mascherano
Kuyt
Benayoun
Aurelio
Agger
Garcia
Arbeloa
Riera

are all players that are either successful signings, or we haven't had time to tell yet. Either way they're not failures.
Is fecking useless at defending, and being a defender thats quite the achilles heal. One free kick against us and suddenly hes a success? feck me

Insua is a better player and has been since I first saw him for their reserves a few years ago
 

Flying Fox

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Found this comment to be a chuckle

"How can Arsenal be at the top of any English list (never mind they are 99% foreigners) they have never even come close to winning the Champions League! Hence the gag: Q - What has Arsenal got in common with a three pin Plug? A - They are both completely useless in Europe!"
 

Paddy

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For anyone who didn't see the rest of the lists, Berbatov's miss against Everton is apparently the 'Worst Penalty of All Time'.

I saw that one too.

Was wondering why he hasn't been hounded out of there yet. That comment even has a recommendation.
Because the wording of the Liverpool entry is vaguely provocative. And Heysel is seen by many opposition fans as 'fair game' in comparison to Hillsborough.
 

thoward

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Oliver Kay is awful. Did anyone see his selection of the 'invincibles' as the greatest English team of the last 25 years?
They think he's very good on RAWK so that doesn't say much about him. The Times seems to be a rather pro Liverpool paper, there is Tony Evans the editor (who struggles to withold his allegiances on their pod), Alysson Rudd(the template for those who believe there should be no women football journalists or commentators) who are both Liverpool fans.Then there is Oliver Kay. And now they are supposed to be bringing in a Liverpool correspondent from the Liverpool Echo.

Then of course there is The Mirror with Derek McGovern and Brian Reade.
 

Flying Fox

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They think he's very good on RAWK so that doesn't say much about him. The Times seems to be a rather pro Liverpool paper, there is Tony Evans the editor (who struggles to withold his allegiances on their pod), Alysson Rudd(the template for those who believe there should be no women football journalists or commentators) who are both Liverpool fans.Then there is Oliver Kay. And now they are supposed to be bringing in a Liverpool correspondent from the Liverpool Echo.

Then of course there is The Mirror with Derek McGovern and Brian Reade.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/experts/caroline-wilson/

While she covers an entirely different code, she'd have to be the equivalent.

Plus, shes ugly as all hell :lol:
 

thoward

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Another thing is that it is said that Benitez inherited a complete mess at Anfield which is clearly going overboard. He had very good defenders in Hyypia (at his peak), Finnan (at his peak) and Carragher (coming into his peak). He had other useful defenders like Riise and Henchoz. He had the likes of Gerrard (who had his best years ahead of him and at 24 was already one of the best players in the league), Hamann (who I think has been the most underated player to play for Liverpool this decade and was then one of the best defensive midfielders in Europe). Kewell was still highly regarded at the time.He had the likes of Baros(top scorer at the European Championships and only 22), Cisse (who was regarded as one of the best young forwards in the world when he signed) up front. And he also inherited the likes of Owen, Murphy and Heskey who he decided to sell so that he could buy the likes of Alonso and Garcia.
 

buckooo1978

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Another thing is that it is said that Benitez inherited a complete mess at Anfield which is clearly going overboard. He had very good defenders in Hyypia (at his peak), Finnan (at his peak) and Carragher (coming into his peak). He had other useful defenders like Riise and Henchoz. He had the likes of Gerrard (who had his best years ahead of him and at 24 was already one of the best players in the league), Hamann (who I think has been the most underated player to play for Liverpool this decade and was then one of the best defensive midfielders in Europe). Kewell was still highly regarded at the time.He had the likes of Baros(top scorer at the European Championships and only 22), Cisse (who was regarded as one of the best young forwards in the world when he signed) up front. And he also inherited the likes of Owen, Murphy and Heskey who he decided to sell so that he could buy the likes of Alonso and Garcia.
you make some really good points there....didn't owen leave that summer on a free tho to madrid?? they still had a really good defence and dudek was a better keeper than people give credit for.

i do think if benitez had another 30 million to spend this summer the league would be very very interesting though - thank god for hicks and gillet

i wonder if liverpool and chelsea's lack of spending is reflected in ours - our squad makes us favourites to win the league but if chelsea went out and got a ribery would we dip into the ronaldo money?
 

samabachan

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you make some really good points there....didn't owen leave that summer on a free tho to madrid?? they still had a really good defence and dudek was a better keeper than people give credit for.

i do think if benitez had another 30 million to spend this summer the league would be very very interesting though - thank god for hicks and gillet

i wonder if liverpool and chelsea's lack of spending is reflected in ours - our squad makes us favourites to win the league but if chelsea went out and got a ribery would we dip into the ronaldo money?
Owen was sold for £8m. But yes it was the same summer Benitez arrived.
 

HsJ

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Fergie - 80M in...17M (Valencia) + 3M (Oberton) out.

So net +60M. Which is considerably more than Beneath-us.
 

SharkyMcShark

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Including Skrtel, you could argue these are 80% of Rafa's major signings since he came to the club, i.e. some of his most expensive (net). Maybe you could throw Crouch in or not - debatable.

The rest are just cheap-ish fodder, as with any club. They come, try to impress and get shipped out if not good enough.
Yeah I meant to come back and add Crouch and Skrtel as players that didn't fail.
 

SmashedHombre

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What a jumbled article. What point is he even trying to get across here? That all journalists criticise Rafa's spending? Bollocks do they, I haven't seen a single article that focuses on Benitez's net spend compared to ours, most of them just like spout out the old we have bought the title nonsense whilst believing the bollocks that Rafa has had no money to spend, and that Liverpool without a doubt would have won the league if Gerrard and Torres had stayed fit. Completely failing to mention the injuries sustained by any of the other top teams, of course.

I'm not saying the journalists are pro-Liverpool and anti-United, they're just anti whoever retains the title, and pro the underdog. It's tedious, none of these footballing articles are enlightening any more, these journalists don't have an inspired or anomalous thought in their pampered little heads.
 

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Fergie - 80M in...17M (Valencia) + 3M (Oberton) out.

So net +60M. Which is considerably more than Beneath-us.
We also sold Lee Martin and Frazer Campbell, Ecklesley and Manucho. Which more than cancels out Obertan, and probably a few million of the Valencia buy as well.