Dalian Atkinson dies after being tasered by police

Sky1981

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No I'm saying tasers aren't often used as a last resort as the result of using one has little downside for the police. They need better training and body camaras so they know their actions will be reviewed with indepent evidence
Well most criminals and perpetrators are malicious to begin with, it's not like this they use taser for noise complain. I fail to see how a police can stop a criminal without using some kind of weapon or coercion techniques.

We have the luxury of judging things from the safety of our internet along with a hindsight. The police has to act on instant and whatever they do will have consequences, what if the perp is an armed and dangerous with a concealed weapon? Doesn't take much for someone to hurt another human being if theh have intention.

At that moment of time the police would not know what ailment the suspect has, what his motives are, how dangerous he could have been, and with recent knife attack, terrorism i really cant blame the cops for trying to handle the situation in a swift manner.

Im not judging anything until there's more factual and investigation, but on the principle we have to trust our cops that they do the right thing, the opposite of it would be chaos and unthinkable.

We empower the police to act on our behalf for the safety of the many, we should at least offer them the benefit of the doubt untill they're proven guilty (if they are).

The death is a tragedy and very regrettable, but if this unfortunate death means removing the use of tazer altogether then i believe the society as a whole would greatly lost more in the grand scheme of things.

Edit: my view is only on tazer, if the cops uses gun then it falls under a different deabter, but a tazer is the best non lethal alternatives short of tranquilizers shot at the moment. A better training would not reduce the risk for our officer, a hand to hand combat is more dangerous against a person who's set to harm you.

Furthermore i beliebe that the cops would have tried to talk him out, and follow the due process before deciding that they have to taze him.

In short : one death doesn't mean the procedure is wrong and the cops are killer as there's no intention to kill until proven otherwise.
 
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Mozza

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Well most criminals and perpetrators are malicious to begin with, it's not like this they use taser for noise complain. I fail to see how a police can stop a criminal without using some kind of weapon or coercion techniques.

We have the luxury of judging things from the safety of our internet along with a hindsight. The police has to act on instant and whatever they do will have consequences, what if the perp is an armed and dangerous with a concealed weapon? Doesn't take much for someone to hurt another human being if theh have intention.

At that moment of time the police would not know what ailment the suspect has, what his motives are, how dangerous he could have been, and with recent knife attack, terrorism i really cant blame the cops for trying to handle the situation in a swift manner.

Im not judging anything until there's more factual and investigation, but on the principle we have to trust our cops that they do the right thing, the opposite of it would be chaos and unthinkable.

We empower the police to act on our behalf for the safety of the many, we should at least offer them the benefit of the doubt untill they're proven guilty (if they are).

The death is a tragedy and very regrettable, but if this unfortunate death means removing the use of tazer altogether then i believe the society as a whole would greatly lost more in the grand scheme of things.

Edit: my view is only on tazer, if the cops uses gun then it falls under a different deabter, but a tazer is the best non lethal alternatives short of tranquilizers shot at the moment. A better training would not reduce the risk for our officer, a hand to hand combat is more dangerous against a person who's set to harm you.

Furthermore i beliebe that the cops would have tried to talk him out, and follow the due process before deciding that they have to taze him.

In short : one death doesn't mean the procedure is wrong and the cops are killer as there's no intention to kill until proven otherwise.
Your reply starts badly. You assume the Police would only ever use the taser on a criminal. Just being in a confrontation with the Police doesn't necessarily make you one.
Are you American? You talk of criminals reminds me of the use of the word across the pond, as if you are a person is a criminal hes no longer human.

I won't offer the police the benefit of the doubt. We do empower them but equally non of them are forced into the job. If they want that power they better use it correctly.
 

TheReligion

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No I'm saying tasers aren't often used as a last resort as the result of using one has little downside for the police. They need better training and body camaras so they know their actions will be reviewed with indepent evidence
How do you know they aren't used as a last resort? What quality of training do they get? What are the consequences of using Taser? How are police actions reviewed currently?
 

Mozza

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How do you know they aren't used as a last resort? What quality of training do they get? What are the consequences of using Taser? How are police actions reviewed currently?
I've explained the reason why I belive they are not used as a last resort in an earlier post. All weapons discharges go the IPCC, I belive its 3 days and a days training annually
 

iKeano

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Doesn't take much for someone to hurt another human being if theh have intention.....

we have to trust our cops that they do the right thing....

a tazer is the best non lethal alternatives short of tranquilizers shot at the moment.
.
Are you Donald Trump? You are aware that this isn't an isolated incident aren't you?
 

Sky1981

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Are you Donald Trump? You are aware that this isn't an isolated incident aren't you?
With intention any items can be lethal be it a baton a fork or a sharpened tooth brush.

Let's scrutinize the action of the man behind the instrument and not the instrument. A right instrument at the right hand saves life.

Who is at fault here? The cop? Or the tazer? If the incident involves a baton instead of tazer do we scrutinise the baton instead?

Judge each incident separately, making a sweeping generalization would only hamper other cops from doing their job.
 

TheReligion

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The taser allows a copper to hit a member of the public with little physical danger to themselves therefore there is very little consequence of using it. With a baton a policeman may seek another way to resolve the conflict as they themselves will be in danger.
Incapacitant spray allows the same kind of range. By this logic why not use that?
 

Mozza

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I would hazard a guess that the threat level to the officers/others/Atkinson must have been greater. That's why what you're saying makes no sense.
Your guess is worth as much as mine, it comes down to wheter you belive the Police will act correctly if they have a tazer. I've explained why I belive they won't
 

TheReligion

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Your guess is worth as much as mine, it comes down to wheter you belive the Police will act correctly if they have a tazer. I've explained why I belive they won't
Be interested to know why you have that opinion though and what it's based on?
 

Mozza

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I'm not convinced there is any evidence of misuse though?
I am not presenting evidence of misuse, I am presenting the reasons why there could be misuse of tazers. Also be aware when I say misuse I don't mean whatever the book definition is as written in the police manual
 

UnitedBoy

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I haven't read into this case at all or even this whole thread.

But my look on it - if you wern't doing an act that has drawn the attention of the police, then you wouldn't have been tasered.

Its not as if police use the taser willy-nilly, the situation is assessed, they will place demands on the subject to start behaving accordingly with the intention of protecting all involved

If these demands are not met, then a quick re-assessment is required and quickly decide which tool is best suited to defusing this situation. This can depends on a number of things, who's involved, surroundings, how far is backup?, size weight and power of the suspect compared to yours? On and on. If the odds are heavily against you, pull the taser.

In most cases, the red dot on the taser alone is enough to nullify any threat. However that the dot isn't a false threat it is a final warning that if you continue, you WILL be tasered.

This will all happen in the blink of an eye, but suspect has every opportunity at a number of stages to chill out. But like I said, if the suspect is up to no good in the first place, its their own fault for running the risk.
 
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RedPed

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Why keep going on about it then?
You're the one that's been jumping on people's comments in this thread with smug know-it-all responses. Typical copper! People are allowed to have a different point of view and as much as you may say or protest to the contrary there are a lot of bent coppers out there. I just hope that if there was any impropriety involved with Dalian Atkinson's death then it is dealt with accordingly.
 

TheReligion

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You're the one that's been jumping on people's comments in this thread with smug know-it-all responses. Typical copper! People are allowed to have a different point of view and as much as you may say or protest to the contrary there are a lot of bent coppers out there. I just hope that if there was any impropriety involved with Dalian Atkinson's death then it is dealt with accordingly.
By having a different opinion and asking those who have jumped to ridiculous conclusions to justify themselves is smug and know it all? If you say so! You just proved what you are with the 'typical copper' comment. It gets rather boring to be honest given the irony of what you're saying.

People are allowed to have a different opinion so long as it's negative of the police and full of personal opinion and little to no fact. Righto.
 

RedPed

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By having a different opinion and asking those who have jumped to ridiculous conclusions to justify themselves is smug and know it all? If you say so! You just proved what you are with the 'typical copper' comment. It gets rather boring to be honest given the irony of what you're saying.

People are allowed to have a different opinion so long as it's negative of the police and full of personal opinion and little to no fact. Righto.
Ridiculous conclusions?? Ffs you are either in denial or living on a different planet!! Why should anyone have to justify themselves to you if it's their personal opinion?? And little or no fact?? You gotta be kidding me. Like I said I have friends who used to be coppers, have seen it myself and there have been many publicised cases. They are certainly not as innocent as you are so staunchly defending them to be (which is frankly baffling as to why you insist on pursuing that...just accept it and let it go).
 

TheReligion

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Ridiculous conclusions?? Ffs you are either in denial or living on a different planet!! Why should anyone have to justify themselves to you if it's their personal opinion?? And little or no fact?? You gotta be kidding me. Like I said I have friends who used to be coppers, have seen it myself and there have been many publicised cases. They are certainly not as innocent as you are so staunchly defending them to be (which is frankly baffling as to why you insist on pursuing that...just accept it and let it go).
Debating and explaining viewpoints is pretty much what a forum is for? Would be pretty boring otherwise..

Who is not as innocent? You're just generalising as you've had a few shitty experiences of your own. That's the problem with any job with authority/power. One bad experience and people tend to tar everyone with the same brush. There are bad apples in EVERY job sadly and I'm all for weeding them out of the police service but it's a kick in the teeth for the vast majority of officers who put their lives at risk daily to protect the public when they have to listen to some of the tripe that gets spouted by some.
 

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UnitedBoy

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I'm astounded, especially a murder charge.
Be interesting to hear more facts about it.

It was all sounding justified to me yet unfortunate and tragic

PS.. I have finally read most of this thread, no love for the cops.:lol::houllier:
 

Lynty

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Murder is harsh. That'll never stand.

I mean, can you even 'attempt' murder with a taser? It doesn't make sense. If you use a non lethal weapon there's no intent.
 

JB7

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Will be quashed and rightly so. Disgraceful charges.
 

Cassidy

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Will be interesting to see the details of the case, this has to have gone beyond tasering to get to a murder charge surely, unless he was repeatedly tasered maybe.

Seems a strange charge, but maybe there are details we don't know about
 

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Murder is harsh. That'll never stand.

I mean, can you even 'attempt' murder with a taser? It doesn't make sense. If you use a non lethal weapon there's no intent.
Depends how many times you zap them or how long you keep the electricity going I would think.

If someone is down but you keep on tasing them, I can see that being murder.

Pure speculation of course, I have no idea what happened or even how a taser works. Can you just hold the trigger down and keep zapping?
 

Bocca9978

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Murder is harsh. That'll never stand.

I mean, can you even 'attempt' murder with a taser? It doesn't make sense. If you use a non lethal weapon there's no intent.
Think they can decided today on a lesser charge of manslaughter as an alternative.

Shocking case either way.