David Pleat: England have five world class players.

[Hectic]

But okay, ignoring Cole, my point was still that I'm not entirely sure that England would have any of those five in the 22 to face Mars.

Not even Rooney would be safe if that's the criteria.

Agreed. Rooney would be the best shout but even then it's not certain.

Gerrard and Terry are just ridiculous choices, who would never, ever get picked. It's embarassing people believe they would even be considered. Hart is a good shout, but there are better goalkeepers, so no, same with Cole.

 

[marjen]

Well if you bring 4-5 strikers in a squad of 23 who would you pick

I'd probably pick Messi and Ronaldo as my first choice attackers, with more conventional wingers out wide. (Or Ronaldo wide in a 4-2-3-1, Messi as a false nine). I'd bring van Persie, that's for sure. And then it would have to be a battle between the likes of Rooney, Agüero, Gomez, Benzema, etc for the last one or two places, which I'm not sure Rooney would win.

EDIT: Also, I'd probably have both Villa and Ibrahimovic in front of Rooney in that queue.

 

[Blackwidow]

I dont see why Hart isn't considered a world class goalkeeper? I think he is in the top 3 goalkeepers that went to the Euro's.

Are Casillas, Buffon or Neuer spelled with an H, an A, a R or a T?

And what is with e.g. Czech?

Actually - what is world class? Would anyone of them make the spanish squad, the German squad or the squad of the Netherlands (ok, just the offensive part)? (and I would have problems to say that anyone of the German team is world class even if some of them have often shown world class performances - but I have seen each of them in poor form before)

 

[marjen]

Are Casillas, Buffon or Neuer spelled with an H, an A, a R or a T?

And what is with e.g. Czech?

Actually - what is world class? Would anyone of them make the spanish squad, the German squad or the squad of the Netherlands? (and I would have problems to say that anyone of the German team is world class even if some of them have often shown world class performances - but I have seen each of them in poor form before)

The Germans have loads of genuinely world class players.

Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Gomez and Özil probably would be classified as world class beyond any reasonable doubt. Neuer and Khedira would follow not far behind. In terms of quality, I rate Germany quite a bit ahead of England.

And that's before we start to talk about how the players perform in the international set-up.

 

[mufcwarm92]

I agree with Hart as well to be honest. Terry and Gerrard may have regressed but their experience at the highest level makes them pretty close IMO.

 

[KingMinger22]

Ashley Cole is probably the most overated athlete in the history of sport.

I see 3 years of poor form stil isn't enough for people to stop rating him as better than he was even when he was playing well.

He's an absolute class act. Focus on him against Italy and you will see. As Nani said, he is the best fullback he's played against.

Hart and Rooney (when not on a baron spell) are also world class imo...

Gerrard definitely was and has looked quality this tournament but will need to sustain it to get that title back.

JT was, maybe still is. Hate him though.

 

[Coxy]

Hart, Rooney and Cole yes.

Gerrard - a bit too old now but at his best he can still do it.

Terry - nope not anymore.

 

[KingMinger22]

The Germans have loads of genuinely world class players.

Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Gomez and Özil probably would be classified as world class beyond any reasonable doubt. Neuer and Khedira would follow not far behind. In terms of quality, I rate Germany quite a bit ahead of England.

And that's before we start to talk about how the players perform in the international set-up.

Germany and Spain have squads stacked to the brim with talent.

Talent United should be looking at!

Oh, and Welbeck and Wilshere will be hot on the heels of Hart to becoming worldclass!

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Hart isn't world class yet. He is still too much of a flapper at crosses

 

[Gio]

It's obviously crap given no team with 5 world-class players is only going to manage 29% possession against Ukraine, a team with presumably 0 world-class players.

Cole and Rooney yes, the others no.

 

[noodlehair]

He's an absolute class act. Focus on him against Italy and you will see. As Nani said, he is the best fullback he's played against.

Hart and Rooney (when not on a baron spell) are also world class imo...

Gerrard definitely was and has looked quality this tournament but will need to sustain it to get that title back.

JT was, maybe still is. Hate him though.

I focuse on him a lot and he's still decent, but world class was a stretch even when he was at his best...and he hasn't been at his best for over 3 years.

He had an awful season in 10/11 and at the end of it people on here were saying he was the best fullback (left or right) in the world. I thus don't trust people's opinions about Ashley Cole.

Even when he was at his best his fellow professionals repeatedly voted Evra or someone else as the best left sided fullback in the league...It's amazing how you can be the best full back in the world without even being the best left back in the country you play in, on any kind of consistent basis. I just think people are lazy and don't look nearly enough at other players as a comparison.

Hart looks very good, but there's loads of goalkeepers who are very good and most have a fair bit more experience and guile than him.

Rooney has the talent but the temperament and mental strength that are supposed to go with it aren't quite there for me. He's the closest thing England have though.

Gerrard and Terry...just no. Terry maybe was. Gerrard I don't think has ever played at anything like "world class" level in international football. He's probably playing the best football he ever has for England in this tournament, and even based on the Euros, I still wouldn't have him in my midfield ahead of the likes of Pirlo, Modric, Schweinsteiger, about 6 of Spain's players, etc.

 

[Hectic]

Some awful overrating going on here. Having Terry and Gerrard as world class, on the basis that they would get into any internation team is really mental.

 

[moses]

It's an English condition that you have to massively overrate or underrate your players. Ye should just ignore your national team if ye want to resemble people who know anything about football.

 

[mariachi-19]

Only Cole and probably Rooney would get in the Earth squad to take on Mars.

-------------Casilias-------
Maicon-Kompany-Vidic-Cole
---------Schweinsteiger------
------Iniesta--------Xavi--------
---Ronaldo--Messi--Rooney

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Wayne Rooney---can be when his head is right
Ashley Cole---Yes
Joe Hart---Will be
Steven Gerrard---hasnt been since 2009
John Terry---never mind isnt now, he never was, he was good and constantly made to look better by playing with supperior partners.

David pleat.......a man who has failed at everything he has ever tried.

 

[Galactic]

Ashley Cole isnt world class anymore.

 

[Adzzz]

I've been consistently impressed by Cole during the England games at the tournament.

He should have had a goal too.

 

[Revan]

I don't think Hart either. At least not yet. There's about 8 goalkeepers who are apparently the "best goalkeeper in the world", and Hart's probably the least proven and experienced of those.

In fact I'd only say Rooney, and even he's overshadowed by players like Ronaldo and Messi, but talent wise he's easily the best England have.

England fans will still be lazily stating that Ashley Cole is the best left back in the world when he's 50 years old (mental age 8), and tucking so far inside positionally he's actually playing at right back.

I don't know but only Casillas, Neuer and possibly Buffon IMO are better than Hart, so Hart is a world class player although he hasn't reached his potential yet.

Lahm, Marcello, then if you want to compare in this tournament, I'd say Coentrao (And I think he's going to be much better anyway). I know I'll probably get slated for saying Marcello, but I prefer him. Maybe I don't rate Cole as high, and that's just me, but I'd have a player like Lahm all day over Cole.

I never understood Marcelo hype, he always looks to me that he don't know how to defend. If there would be a big match I always would prefer Cole to him. Coentrao on the other side IMO is much better, despite sometimes making some silly mistakes.

Wayne Rooney---can be when his head is right
Ashley Cole---Yes
Joe Hart---Will be
Steven Gerrard---hasnt been since 2009
John Terry---never mind isnt now, he never was, he was good and constantly made to look better by playing with supperior partners.

David pleat.......a man who has failed at everything he has ever tried.

Will I get lynched in the Caf if I said that Terry was world class, and always was the most important defender of Chelsea and better than his partners.

About Gerrard, he truly isn't world class since 2009 but he's playing brilliant in this tournament and together with Pirlo and Iniesta was the best midfielder in 3 first games. By far best England player in group stage.

 

[steeeb]

Wayne Rooney - Is
Ashley Cole - Is
Joe Hart - Is
Steven Gerrard - Was
John Terry - Was

Adding to those that aren't in the squad:
Michael Carrick - Some may not agree, but for his role, I'd say there's only him and Biscuits which are world class at it
Scholes - Was (He still is, but he can't play all the time)
Rio - Was

 

[Successful]

And how much football is this David Pleat watching otherwise? This statement is made to make kids in England aspire to whatever players they have. Steven Gerrard is as mediocre a player can get nowdays - and I know it hurts to say it, for some people.

 

[noodlehair]

So the ridiculous England player overating is making an appearance at the Euros after all then.

It's amazing what a 1-0 win over Ukraine which actually ended 1-1 can do.

 

[Plechazunga]

Can I just point out that these threads are totally pointless, because there's no consensus on what world class means?

We did a poll a few years ago, and opinions were split between:

International class
Good enough to get into one of the top 6 or 8 international sides
Good enough to get into a World XI
Good enough to get into an all-time World XI
Maradona and Pele
Etc.

Anyway, Rooney and Gerrard are brilliant players when on form, and Cole's still excellent

 

[Hectic]

So the ridiculous England player overating is making an appearance at the Euros after all then.

It's amazing what a 1-0 win over Ukraine which actually ended 1-1 can do.

I've been waiting for it, and now it's back in full, retarded force. It took a while, and Hodgson did his very best to stop people from being able to do it, but god damn they found a way.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Not many keepers better than Joe Hart.

Good God.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Can I just point out that these threads are totally pointless, because there's no consensus on what world class means?

We did a poll a few years ago, and opinions were split between:

International class
Good enough to get into one of the top 6 or 8 international sides
Good enough to get into a World XI
Good enough to get into an all-time World XI
Maradona and Pele
Etc.

Anyway, Rooney and Gerrard are brilliant players when on form, and Cole's still excellent

Exactly. People will never agree about what it means.

I'd say Rooney is the only top quality English player. I don't think he'd be guaranteed a spot on a Earth squad to play Mars, but he's an excellent player.

Cole still has the quality in him but I've only seen it recently in the CL run and now for England when his teams are basically sitting back and focusing completely on defending. For Chelsea he's been ordinary for a fairly long time now.

Terry and Gerrard are past their best and on their day can be great but generally I wouldn't consider them top class footballers at all. Week in week out they aren't as good as they used to be.

 

[Stack]

Stop smoking crack, its fecking with your brain.

Cole is one of the best left backs in the World, therefore he is world class.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Cole only performs in the 'big games', if you had seen his league performances for Chelsea this season, it's nowhere as good as it was a few years ago. Was his fault for numerous goals.

Perhaps conserved his energy in the Champions League.

 

[Spoony]

So the ridiculous England player overating is making an appearance at the Euros after all then.

It's amazing what a 1-0 win over Ukraine which actually ended 1-1 can do.

Indeed. Everyone will come crashing back down to earth, I suspect. We're just not very good at this football lark...but heh, it's not as if we not discussed it before...in detail.

 

[Bilbo]

England have always produced superb defenders. I'd say Cole, Terry & Hart would be a serious consideration for a place in any of the squads in the Euro's.

Its in front of that where this team are struggling. Rooney is our best player and is world-class, I feel, in however many ways you wish to categorise the term. I think he could play the false nine role for Spain and not look out of place - in fact he'd possibly improve the team.

As for Gerrard, he struggles technically, but he's had a hell of a tournament so far. He needs a team to be built around him, and he isn't good enough to be given that anymore.

 

[Red Pavan]

Stop smoking crack, its fecking with your brain.

How many are better than Ashley Cole?

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Will I get lynched in the Caf if I said that Terry was world class, and always was the most important defender of Chelsea and better than his partners.

About Gerrard, he truly isn't world class since 2009 but he's playing brilliant in this tournament and together with Pirlo and Iniesta was the best midfielder in 3 first games. By far best England player in group stage.

You wouldnt get lynched, you would be wrong though. Terry has never been world class, people just bought into the hype because of his last ditch tackles, tackles which would never have needed to be made had he been world class because he wouldnt have been drastically out of position in the first place.

 

[moses]

David pleat.......a man who has failed at everything he has ever tried.

Yeah, only got to manage Spurs and Luton, he'll never post in the mains on the caf.

How's your supermodel girlfriend? Out for a spin in the Ferrari?

 

[B20]

For a mediocre player, Gerrard hasn't done too badly dragging England past the group stages.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Cole only performs in the 'big games', if you had seen his league performances for Chelsea this season, it's nowhere as good as it was a few years ago. Was his fault for numerous goals.

Perhaps conserved his energy in the Champions League.

Big games where his teams are ultra defensive.

Barring the two cup runs (cl and euros so far) he's been poor for chelsea.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

For a mediocre player, Gerrard hasn't done too badly dragging England past the group stages.

Dragging? I remember Pavel Nedved dragging his national team through sheer brilliance. A couple of decent deliveries isn't dragging. He wouldn't be within miles of the tournaments best performers so far.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

For a mediocre player, Gerrard hasn't done too badly dragging England past the group stages.

It's probably Hodgson who is dragging England anywhere more so than Gerrard.

Who knows, maybe he is starting to show what he could have done with a decent group of players and not a whole group of fans on his back trying to replace him with a former legend.

 

[noodlehair]

Can I just point out that these threads are totally pointless, because there's no consensus on what world class means?

We did a poll a few years ago, and opinions were split between:

International class
Good enough to get into one of the top 6 or 8 international sides
Good enough to get into a World XI
Good enough to get into an all-time World XI
Maradona and Pele
Etc.

Anyway, Rooney and Gerrard are brilliant players when on form, and Cole's still excellent

Well, for the purpose of this thread, I'm going by David Pleat's suggestion that it's a term for players who'd "walk into any side in the world"

The only one who possibly comes under that category is Rooney...and even with him it sort of depends which version of Wayne Rooney is going to turn up. You'd make room for an on form Rooney in your team...you'd probably rip your hair out if the off form Rooney then turned up for the game.

The others don't even get that far though. For example, why would Germany take Neuer and Lahm out of their team and replace them with Joe Hart and Ashley Cole?

Which one of the midfielders in Spain's entire squad would make way for Steven Gerrard? If Wilshere and Scholes were both there he'd be the third most talented midfielder in the England squad.

No one even really knows why John Terry is still in the England team.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Yeah, only got to manage Spurs and Luton, he'll never post in the mains on the caf.

How's your supermodel girlfriend? Out for a spin in the Ferrari?

Only those with no taste drive a ferrari, she took the Rolls, Peasant.

Maybe Failed is a little harsh, but certainly didnt achieve enough to still be hanging around 15 years after his last meaningful job (no, I am not counting various spells as Spurs caretaker) bleating on as if his opinion still carries any weight. He is a senile old tart who should just die already. Or retire, Im not fussed.

Although he DID send City down so.....

 

[Ramshock]

wtf?

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

So the ridiculous England player overating is making an appearance at the Euros after all then.

It's amazing what a 1-0 win over Ukraine which actually ended 1-1 can do.

A bit of a azy jibe there Noodle. Since when was an off-the-cuff remark by David Pleat indicative of national sentiment?

If, we manage to overcome the Italians and presumably face Germany, the dam will then begin to fail however. lol


Regarding your most recent post, perhaps if we replace "would walk into" for "could". Take Joe Hart for instance, does the German defence get the jitters because he is goal behind them?

There is a slight age issue in Pleat's list, we could be down to two ro three in no time even if we accept his assertions to be correct. How many of the enw guard cna make the grade in time for 2014?