Day 13: Slovakia vs Spain | Sweden vs Poland | Portugal vs France | Germany vs Hungary

[Samid]

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Match 33
Wednesday 23 June, 18.00 CET @ La Cartuja, Seville
Group E
Ref: Björn Kuipers (Netherlands)

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Match 34
Wednesday 23 June, 18.00 CET @ Krestovsky Stadium, Saint Petersburg
Group E
Ref: Michael Oliver (England)

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Match 35
Wednesday 23 June, 21.00 CET @ Puskás Aréna, Budapest
Group F
Ref: Antonio Mateu Lahoz (Spain)

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Match 36
Wednesday 23 June, 21.00 CET @ Allianz Arena, Munich
Group F
Ref: Sergei Karasev (Russia)​

 

[GhastlyHun]

This matchday promises a lot of excitement and drama. I'm hyped already.

 

[Dumbstar]

Can France not qualify if they get soundly beaten? I'm confused looking at the tables. Are third place teams ranked in order of goal difference first or number of matches won?

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

Can France not qualify if they get soundly beaten? I'm confused looking at the tables. Are third-place teams ranked in order of goal difference first or a number of matches won?

As it stands, Portugal can lose but they can only lose by 2 goals to still pass in third while France will pass anyway even if Portugal wins because they have 4 points but they will be in third place behind Germany and Portugal (assuming that Germany wins)

All 3 teams have a GD +1 as it stands but that's only going to matter if they finish third with 3 points. The teams with 4 points will go to the next stage anyway.

 

[Dumbstar]

As it stands, Portugal can lose but they can only lose by 2 goals to still pass in third while France will pass anyway since they have 4 points but they will be in the third place behind Germany and Portugal (assuming that Germany wins)

So 4 points is safe for third placed qualification at the very least?

DOH! Of course it is as Ukraine and Finland are the teams already out. Don't know why I was thinking only two third placed teams could go through, it's four teams.

Makes the last set of games less enjoyable.

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

So 4 points is safe for third placed qualification at the very least?

DOH! Of course it is as Ukraine and Finland are the teams already out. Don't know why I was thinking only two third placed teams could go through, it's four teams.

Makes the last set of games less enjoyable.

Yeah, you already have 2 teams that finished third with 3 points and Finland has a -2 GD while Ukraine has -1. It's 4 teams out of 6 so those 2 are in the best position to going out atp.
Both Croatia and Scotland can still finish their group stage with 2 points (they both have 1 point and the last game is Croatia - Scotland) and Spain could finish in third with 2 points as well. So technically both Finland and Ukraine can still pass the group stage with negative GD.

Either way, France is safe. It's just a matter if they finish first, second or third.

As it stands the third-place rankings in the finished groups is this:

Switzerland: 4 points - Qualified
Finland - 3 points (GD -2) - Waiting for the rest of the results
Ukraine - 3 points (GD -1) - Waiting for the rest of the results

Portugal finishing third would actually be a good outcome since we had the most difficult games out of any team. I think we were the only team that had to play against Hungary at their home and then Germany at their home too.
It isn't exactly fair but it is what it is.

 

[RedDave0209]

Come on Poland! 3 points tomorrow and we go through. Unlikely but possible...

 

[GhastlyHun]

Group Of Pretty Much Safe Advancement

 

[antk]

Portugal finishing third would actually be a good outcome since we had the most difficult games out of any team. I think we were the only team that had to play against Hungary at their home and then Germany at their home too.
It isn't exactly fair but it is what it is.

Well France too obviously. But we have the advantage of only having needed to travel once (from Munich to Budapest) while you've gone Budapest -> Munich -> Budapest.

 

[sincher]

Come on Poland! 3 points tomorrow and we go through. Unlikely but possible...

A Poland win and a draw in the Spain game would be brilliant. Spain would finish bottom of the group.

Possible, too.

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

Well France too obviously. But we have the advantage of only having needed to travel once (from Munich to Budapest) while you've gone Budapest -> Munich -> Budapest.

Yeah, I forgot France played in Germany as well. If you consider that both teams had to play away games while both Germany and Hungary could play at home and the travelling involved, both Portugal and France had a clear disadvantage in this group.

Obviously, against Hungary, that shouldn't mean much although they managed to get a draw against France and Portugal struggled to break their team. But in a game like Germany - Portugal / France - Germany, those kinda of disadvantages can be game-changers.

 

[hubbuh]

What the hell is that Spanish team logo?!

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Uefa turn down local mayor's request to light up Munich arena in rainbow colours.

Apparently, a response to Hungary's stance on U18s banning the sharing of material promoting homosexuality and gender change.

Request turned down as "political".

Shouldn't have told Uefa, just done it on the night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57566224

 

[RedDave0209]

Uefa turn down local mayor's request to light up Munich arena in rainbow colours.

Apparently, a response to Hungary's stance on U18s banning the sharing of material promoting homosexuality and gender change.

Request turned down as "political".

Shouldn't have told Uefa, just done it on the night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57566224

In a way, they are doing it as a protest against the Hungarian laws I see why it is deemed political. UEFA are not against lighting the stadium in rainbow colours, just the timing of it which in practice would make it a political statement.

Before anyone calls me out on being a homophobe, I do not agree with Hungary's stance etc. however I'm not surprised by UEFA's decision. They're only following their own rules.

 

[RoyH1]

What the hell is that Spanish team logo?!

New boss wanted to set his own "footprint" on the federation and changed to logo. Only that instead of asking a design firm for help he got an intern to do it.

I expect Spain to either explode and run riot against the Slovakians or to embarrass themselves with a poor 0-0 showing, compounded byt then criticizing the state of the pitch

 

[hubbuh]

New boss wanted to set his own "footprint" on the federation and changed to logo. Only that instead of asking a design firm for help he got an intern to do it.

I expect Spain to either explode and run riot against the Slovakians or to embarrass themselves with a poor 0-0 showing, compounded byt then criticizing the state of the pitch

Are design firms much better? See Juventus, Inter Milan, the white power Leeds abomination that was quickly buried etc. Still, that Spain one is shocking, especially in comparison to the old, iconic one.

 

[Hanks]

Going to Poland-Sweden later today....but not sure about how the game will be.

This is reportedly the warmest weather in St. Petersburg for many many years (weather at KO will be 31 degrees)...it's absolute hell outside.

I think with Sweden guaranteed qualification, Poland does stand a chance.

Funny thing is, Spain would be through with a draw provided Poland doesn't beat Sweden, so there is room for a lot of drama today.

Ideally Slovakia and Poland get the first goals to make it as exciting as possible. This weather is draining life out of me.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

For those saying “France will draw with Portugal because they don’t care who they play next” you really think think they don’t have a preference between Ukraine/Switzerland at a neutral venue or England at Wembley? Of course they want to top the group. France haven’t exactly pulled up any trees themselves yet.

 

[GhastlyHun]

It just occurred to me... does the traditional France-England enmity also translate to special football rivalry? Or is it seen as just a normal international match for our resident Englishmen (and Frenchies), and do we (Germans) hold the undisputed throne of England's football arch enemy?

 

[rhajdu]

Uefa turn down local mayor's request to light up Munich arena in rainbow colours.

Apparently, a response to Hungary's stance on U18s banning the sharing of material promoting homosexuality and gender change.

Request turned down as "political".

Shouldn't have told Uefa, just done it on the night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57566224

I think that Government of Hungary's stance on U18s banning the sharing of material promoting homosexuality and gender change originates from an earlier incident: a far-right politician shred one of the copies of a recently-pusblished children's book which contains well-known tales reframed in a way in which the hero(es) belong(s) to a stigmatized or minority group. For example, Cinderella is a lesbian in this book. This incident was widely discussed, because one of the most well-known Hungarian pyschologist said that this type of tales can influence the children's orientation at the early childhood. Surprisingly, the Government of Hungary was very quiet in this topic at that time... but now we can see why. This incident didn't escape their attention and they prepared for an extreme action.

Hungary is quite schizophrenic, I would say. There are lot of companies where the employees can be themselves, there are places which are exclusively for LGBTQ+ people, there are famous celebrities who are part of the LGBTQ+ community and you can see people holding each other's hand in the street. On the other hand, the Government bans the sharing of material promoting homosexuality and gender change and some of the fans chanting homophobic slogans.

The situation is the same with antisemitism. We have one of the largest active synagogue in Europe which located in the heart of the city and lot of smaller synagogues and prayer rooms, a Jewish Quarter with traditional kosher restaurant, shops and traditional Orthodox Jews walking on the streets and no one lifts an eyelid.

From my perspective, one of the main culprits is the media and it is going to be even worse in the future as you can see how racism is raising on social media platforms. However, I already went too far from the original topic. I just wanted to add a little context to the banning of the materials which are promoting homosexuality and gender change.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Bruno vs Pogba tonight. Twitter gonna be a war zone

 

[The Firestarter]

Bruno vs Pogba tonight. Twitter gonna be a war zone

#brogba

 

[carvajal]

New boss wanted to set his own "footprint" on the federation and changed to logo. Only that instead of asking a design firm for help he got an intern to do it.

I expect Spain to either explode and run riot against the Slovakians or to embarrass themselves with a poor 0-0 showing, compounded byt then criticizing the state of the pitch

I think the same. In qualifying, despite constant testing, it seemed that he was looking for a more electric team.
I think they have the ability to put one more gear

 

[duffer]

It just occurred to me... does the traditional France-England enmity also translate to special football rivalry? Or is it seen as just a normal international match for our resident Englishmen (and Frenchies), and do we (Germans) hold the undisputed throne of England's football arch enemy?

Not really. England and France have barely played each other in competitive games in modern football. We lost a group game to them in 2004 but I can't remember any other big games.

Germany have beaten England in really big games in 90, 96 and 2010.

For England, the teams we want to beat are probably Germany, Argentina and Scotland.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I think that Government of Hungary's stance on U18s banning the sharing of material promoting homosexuality and gender change originates from an earlier incident: a far-right politician shred one of the copies of a recently-pusblished children's book which contains well-known tales reframed in a way in which the hero(es) belong(s) to a stigmatized or minority group. For example, Cinderella is a lesbian in this book. This incident was widely discussed, because one of the most well-known Hungarian pyschologist said that this type of tales can influence the children's orientation at the early childhood. Surprisingly, the Government of Hungary was very quiet in this topic at that time... but now we can see why. This incident didn't escape their attention and they prepared for an extreme action.

Hungary is quite schizophrenic, I would say. There are lot of companies where the employees can be themselves, there are places which are exclusively for LGBTQ+ people, there are famous celebrities who are part of the LGBTQ+ community and you can see people holding each other's hand in the street. On the other hand, the Government bans the sharing of material promoting homosexuality and gender change and some of the fans chanting homophobic slogans.

The situation is the same with antisemitism. We have one of the largest active synagogue in Europe which located in the heart of the city and lot of smaller synagogues and prayer rooms, a Jewish Quarter with traditional kosher restaurant, shops and traditional Orthodox Jews walking on the streets and no one lifts an eyelid.

From my perspective, one of the main culprits is the media and it is going to be even worse in the future as you can see how racism is raising on social media platforms. However, I already went too far from the original topic. I just wanted to add a little context to the banning of the materials which are promoting homosexuality and gender change.

Thanks for detailed reply - interesting.

My issue was/is not with Hungary per se - different countries/cultures have different viewpoints, as do I but I value the right to an opinion even when I disagree with what that opinion is (or what the media portrays it to be).

More to do with UEFA deciding what is (poppy, rainbow lights) or isn't (Pep ribbon, t-shirts) "political"

 

[Blackwidow]

From my perspective, one of the main culprits is the media and it is going to be even worse in the future as you can see how racism is raising on social media platforms. However, I already went too far from the original topic. I just wanted to add a little context to the banning of the materials which are promoting homosexuality and gender change.

In a country were there is no real freedom of press...

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Slovakia - Poland - Portugal - Hungary

That would be a nice day.

 

[Siorac]

I think that Government of Hungary's stance on U18s banning the sharing of material promoting homosexuality and gender change originates from an earlier incident: a far-right politician shred one of the copies of a recently-pusblished children's book which contains well-known tales reframed in a way in which the hero(es) belong(s) to a stigmatized or minority group. For example, Cinderella is a lesbian in this book. This incident was widely discussed, because one of the most well-known Hungarian pyschologist said that this type of tales can influence the children's orientation at the early childhood. Surprisingly, the Government of Hungary was very quiet in this topic at that time... but now we can see why. This incident didn't escape their attention and they prepared for an extreme action.

Hungary is quite schizophrenic, I would say. There are lot of companies where the employees can be themselves, there are places which are exclusively for LGBTQ+ people, there are famous celebrities who are part of the LGBTQ+ community and you can see people holding each other's hand in the street. On the other hand, the Government bans the sharing of material promoting homosexuality and gender change and some of the fans chanting homophobic slogans.

The situation is the same with antisemitism. We have one of the largest active synagogue in Europe which located in the heart of the city and lot of smaller synagogues and prayer rooms, a Jewish Quarter with traditional kosher restaurant, shops and traditional Orthodox Jews walking on the streets and no one lifts an eyelid.

From my perspective, one of the main culprits is the media and it is going to be even worse in the future as you can see how racism is raising on social media platforms. However, I already went too far from the original topic. I just wanted to add a little context to the banning of the materials which are promoting homosexuality and gender change.

Great summary, especially the schizophrenic part.

The only disagreement I have is blaming the media. I think that quite simply, our society is drifting apart, becoming more polarised. It's not too dissimilar to what is going in the US: the more urbanised areas are increasingly different in attitude and outlook compared to the countryside (and abstract, intangible cultural considerations aside, we can just look at election results: Fidesz is going to easily retain power next year but they're going to get destroyed in Budapest). The media, including social media which is a rather special case, is culpable and contributes but it's more of a symptom than a cause.

Anyway, I was hoping UEFA would allow the rainbow display but I'm not surprised they didn't. Though the whole 'no politics in football' stance is rather inconsistent: their own 'no place for racism' campaign is as political as it can get.

 

[giorno]

In a way, they are doing it as a protest against the Hungarian laws I see why it is deemed political. UEFA are not against lighting the stadium in rainbow colours, just the timing of it which in practice would make it a political statement.

Before anyone calls me out on being a homophobe, I do not agree with Hungary's stance etc. however I'm not surprised by UEFA's decision. They're only following their own rules.

How is stopping germany from doing it not a political decision?

 

[rhajdu]

In a country were there is no real freedom of press...

That's far from the truth. There are many (news) websites, newspapers and other media channels which are very critical about the Government of Hungary and about the leading party. Usually these channels are the most popular ones in Hungary. The leading party wants to keep the power so they occupied those media channels which are for certain voting groups (e.g. rural newspapers).

Anyway, I was talking about the media generally. The mainstream media controls the topic and the narrative, can manipulate the masses across countries and continents and then you have the alternative sites which are creating different alternative worlds.

 

[Siorac]

In a country were there is no real freedom of press...

It's a little more complicated than that. Free, independent media outlets still exist and many of them are heavily critical of the government, including the country's most watched commercial channel. It's just a LOT harder for them to find the necessary funding (particularly for newspapers, online and paper versions as well) and they're under constant pressure.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Not convinced Poland can do something more than the draw vs Swedes. Too much dependant on Lewy's rare moments.

 

[Threesus]

Bruno vs Pogba tonight. It’s going to get heated on Redcafe.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I think that Government of Hungary's stance on U18s banning the sharing of material promoting homosexuality and gender change originates from an earlier incident: a far-right politician shred one of the copies of a recently-pusblished children's book which contains well-known tales reframed in a way in which the hero(es) belong(s) to a stigmatized or minority group. For example, Cinderella is a lesbian in this book. This incident was widely discussed, because one of the most well-known Hungarian pyschologist said that this type of tales can influence the children's orientation at the early childhood. Surprisingly, the Government of Hungary was very quiet in this topic at that time... but now we can see why. This incident didn't escape their attention and they prepared for an extreme action.

Hungary is quite schizophrenic, I would say. There are lot of companies where the employees can be themselves, there are places which are exclusively for LGBTQ+ people, there are famous celebrities who are part of the LGBTQ+ community and you can see people holding each other's hand in the street. On the other hand, the Government bans the sharing of material promoting homosexuality and gender change and some of the fans chanting homophobic slogans.

The situation is the same with antisemitism. We have one of the largest active synagogue in Europe which located in the heart of the city and lot of smaller synagogues and prayer rooms, a Jewish Quarter with traditional kosher restaurant, shops and traditional Orthodox Jews walking on the streets and no one lifts an eyelid.

From my perspective, one of the main culprits is the media and it is going to be even worse in the future as you can see how racism is raising on social media platforms. However, I already went too far from the original topic. I just wanted to add a little context to the banning of the materials which are promoting homosexuality and gender change.

PS. No "Friends" before the watershed

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57566696

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Bruno vs Pogba tonight. It’s going to get heated on Redcafe.

is that De Gea?

 

[red_de_pologne]

Not convinced Poland can do something more than the draw vs Swedes. Too much dependant on Lewy's rare moments.

Not an easy task but possible, makes it a good game to watch

 

[Alex99]

Not really. England and France have barely played each other in competitive games in modern football. We lost a group game to them in 2004 but I can't remember any other big games.

Germany have beaten England in really big games in 90, 96 and 2010.

For England, the teams we want to beat are probably Germany, Argentina and Scotland.

Gerrard playing Henry through, if I remember correctly.

 

[Wolf1992]

In a country were there is no real freedom of press...

Freedom of press at some point it's overrated, America and UK have it, and their press it's full of garbage everywhere.

 

[PoTMS]

Not really. England and France have barely played each other in competitive games in modern football. We lost a group game to them in 2004 but I can't remember any other big games.

Germany have beaten England in really big games in 90, 96 and 2010.

For England, the teams we want to beat are probably Germany, Argentina and Scotland.

Played them in the Euro 2012 group stages too and drew against them. Ended up topping the group that year only to fall to Italy in the next round on penalties.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Not an easy task but possible, makes it a good game to watch

It would be truly superb watch if Poland didn't fry themselves vs Slovakia. If Sousa's really positive coach with attacking bias then it's time to finally show that.