DDG - it needs to be said

[Denis' cuff]

The way he went about that 3rd goal was like a half arsed full back. You’re a keeper ffs. Smother it.

Tip of the iceberg anyway. Should’ve been replaced at least a year ago, being generous to him. Absolute cowardice that he never comes off his line to any effect but in the past week, 3 times he has left his line in the usual half arsed manner when he should’ve stayed. Caught in no man’s land and conceded. What’s the point of leaving his line if he is not committed?

It’s an illustration of the current shambles at the club that he, Jones ffs, like several other inexplicable cases, (Rooney,, Sanchez etc) have been given extended, lucrative contracts, when plainly on the way out, yet we dither over a few quid in the transfer market.

Ole has his faults but Woodward/Glazers make the big decisions and the players only put an effort in after going two goals down.

 

[big rons sovereign]

A keeper should be absolutely fearless. De Gea is a pussy.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Some other Chelsea fan pointed this out to me on here (apologies that I can't recall exactly who), but this is really evocative of our recent Cech / Courtois situation. Obviously there are some differences in terms of contract situations and whatnot, but despite how badly it ended with Courtois at Chelsea it was very obviously the correct move to make him the number 1.

The problem for you now is that the market for De Gea is very limited - which top team that can afford his wages would be be an upgrade for? Can't really think of anyone off the top of my head.

Henderson is no Courtois

 

[calodo2003]

Yeah agree. With the way Henderson was talking, I highly doubt he would've signed without reassurance that he'll be first choice soon. How soon that is, I dunno.

Needs to happen with a bit of haste. Maybe even Saturday. I’d feel comfortable with Henderson.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Henderson is no Courtois

Sure, I agree that he's not on the level of Courtois but he's still significantly younger and has had recent success. Obviously he hasn't played in a CL final like Courtois did prior to returning, but at this point he's a clear upgrade on De Gea for me.

 

[gerdm07]

I would like to hear from some GKs, former or active. I think the 3rd goal tonight, and the 1st and 2nd vs PSG were poorly played by DeGea. In all three scenarios he needs to go in with his hands and body. This feet first does not work. He won't save them all, granted, but he would have a better chance with the more typical goalie play.

 

[croadyman]

I would like to hear from some GKs, former or active. I think the 3rd goal tonight, and the 1st and 2nd vs PSG were poorly played by DeGea. In all three scenarios he needs to go in with his hands and body. This feet first does not work. He won't save them all, granted, but he would have a better chance with the more typical goalie play.

Yeah my dad also made the point that he should have done better with the 1st goal tonight as well

 

[Ali Dia]

I reckon Hendos passion and leadership would be a big boost. His shot stopping is no worse than DDGs current level. He should be getting a game or 2 in a row soon enough. It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

[croadyman]

I reckon Hendos passion and leadership would be a big boost. His shot stopping is no worse than DDGs current level. He should be getting a game or 2 in a row soon enough. It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Didn't exactly deserve to be dropped

 

[Ali Dia]

Didn't exactly deserve to be dropped

ive enjoyed Henderson’s games for us so far. He looks like he’s on the up. He’s a confident loud lad. We need more of that. We need shaking up. Tonight was like a nightmare from the first second.

 

[RashyForPM]

Not just because of the 3rd goal tonight, but I feel it is time Dean Henderson is given a run to show what he can do.

DDG was imperious for a number of years and it was his great saves that made out defensive stats look better than they should have done - he was an incredible shotstopper.

But that masked a reluctance to dominate his area and he seems reluctant to go for the ball with his hands in man on man challenges (I wouldn't like to do that either, to be honest, but then again I'm not an elite level goalkeeper). The mystique has slipped a bit in the last season or two and I''m concerned.

When Henderson has played recently, I've felt more comfortable and his distribution from the back looks good, it was his banana clearance 'down the line' that started the revival at West Ham.

Maybe he will have some weaknesses that become obvious over regular games, but I'd like to see him given a 10 match run in the first team, to show what he can do.

My opinion, only and I respect other people who may disagree.

Great OP. At his best, DDG, to go with his unbelievably fantastic reflexes and saves, was also brave as a tiger. His distribution has always been poor. Now though, I suppose it’s acceptable that he can’t make world class saves anymore because he has declined, but what is unforgivable is that he is a real coward now. Why couldn’t he dive head first to save it? Useless.

 

[Galactic]

Ole’s too nice to drop anyone other than Pogba.

 

[croadyman]

Ole’s too nice to drop anyone other than Pogba.

Yeah spot on and that mantra will ensure he stays on for ages yet

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

He's making too many mistakes that cost us lot since 2018/2019. He's done great before but I think it has gone too long and time to move on. 365k p/w is a lot of money. The club needs to learn about it as well not giving player a ridiculous wages even when that player has performed for years. In my opinion, anything above 250k p/w for world class keeper is already way too much amount wages so never mind 365k p/w.

 

[Cultured left ankle]

While De Gea hasn't made many clear errors, and has made a few impressive saves (Callum Wilson at Newcastle), his stats in the PL this season are horrendous:

Out of the 20 keepers with the most appearances for their team, he ranks:

- 19th for save percentage in the PL this season (53.8%). Lowest is Ryan of Brighton 50.0% then ahead of De Gea you've got Patricio of Wolves and Martinez of Villa 62.9%, another five keepers between 66% and 69%. 9 keepers between 70% and 75%. Lloris 81.3% and Mendy 83.3%. Last season Kepa Arrizabalaga was at 54.5%. De Gea has only had one PL season in which his save percentage was below 70% and that was 69% under Moyes.

- 16th relative to post-shot expected goals. Currently - 1.0 (so conceded one more goal than expected from the shots that were on target). 12 keepers have conceded fewer goals than expected. Sam Johnstone top at + 3.8. Post-shot expected goals is a relatively new concept. This is the 4th season for which there are stats. De Gea's past 3 seasons were + 7.9, + 0.9 and + 2.1 (last season).

- 20th for taking crosses. 1.6%. 3 keepers currently above 10% (De Gea has always performed poorly in this particular stat. Again 4th season for which there is data)

- 16th for sweeper keeper. 0.35 per game. (De Gea has always performed poorly in this category. 4 seasons of data)

I don't know how you assess passing from the stats available. He may be performing better at this than many other keepers.

Of course, the sample size is very small at the moment.

De Gea's save percentage in the CL is 60%. Across the two competitions it will be below 60%. Henderson has saved 8 out of 11 shots on target in PL (7/8) + CL (1/3).

All stats from: https://fbref.com/en/players/7ba6d84e/David-de-Gea

ouch. Thanks for the stats, they confirm pretty much what I think we'd all concluded ages ago.

The crosses claimed stat is particularly frustrating. we've known for a long long time we concede too much at corners and free kicks around the box. How many of those would have been prevented by a keeper piling through the crowd to claim the high ball? I can't even remember the last time De Gea caught a cross.

Oh, and someone mentioned penalties earlier. Is there a keeper anywhere else in the world as bad as saving pens? He's like the anti-Fernandes: a goal is almost guaranteed when a penalty is given.

Don't get me wrong, I'll support whoever plays for us and I appreciate everything he's done. But we need to be ruthless. I mean would we still have Scholes and Keane in the team because of their history? I'm not even suggesting he's necessarily done at the top-perhaps a change of scene would give him back his fire.

 

[El Zoido]

Ole’s too nice to drop anyone other than Pogba.

Sorry but that’s just nonsense. He’s self-serving and will drop whoever he needs to to protect his job. You don’t just drop your goalkeeper like this, there’s a delicate internal political situation to manage. DDG is the longest standing squad member, and has been one of the best in the world for years but you’ll see him phased out. There’s a reason Deano is back and has not been sent out on loan again.

 

[K Stand Knut]

Great shot stopper. Offers literally nothing else and in the modern game that is unfortunately not good enough anymore.

Was the best shot stopper when we had a defence who offered attacking teams very few other options but to shoot from distance. In was also convenient at the tire that we didn’t need anything else from him.

I said it in the summer but he’s an easy sale, along with Pogba if there is some interest from clubs.

But actual players that are needed like DCM with the funds

 

[Oldyella]

Our defence catch a load of grief but this guy must be a nightmare to play in front of, even when he was making great saves every week. Hes scared shitless of coming off his line, meaning our defence drop deeper and deeper and end up defending on the 6 yard line as soon as we come under the slightest pressure.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Henderson goes head first and grabs that ball for the 3rd goal, so would romero.

Instead for some reason De Gea just does that stupid block move and looks away hoping for the best. All they have to do is poke it past him.

Same again for the 2nd goal too, could have come out and closed the angle a little bit but instead he's rooted to his line. He's just not proactive and brave enough anymore.

 

[Wilt]

Time and time again he tries to stop with his feet ....just fecking dive on it!

I‘d love to know what he thinks when he looks at his fecking pay cheque

 

[MadDogg]

He started this season looking better than he had the last two. Obviously nowhere near where he was at his best, but getting closer to it. Unfortunately he seems to be dropping off again.

I won't blame him for the first goal as I'm not sure what the right move there would have been. Maybe he should have come out to close the angle, maybe not. But his footwork was terrible on the second goal. He was slow to move over to his left when Angelino put the cross in, and because he was slow moving over he still had his weight moving that way and was off balance when Haidara hit it.

And the less said about his 'efforts' on the third goal the better. That was a bad mistake in his own part (not coming for the ball), terrible communication, and then followed by pure cowardice with his attempted save (if you can even call it that).

Time for Deano to get a proper run in the side IMO. He himself did make that one bad mistake in his last game (the terrible positioning when they scored the offside goal) but he should be getting the opportunity to show what he can do with an extended run.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

DDG is the least of our problems. He might not be the sensation he was a few years ago when properly motivated, but he still does a fine job and makes saves only he can make every other game. I would be fine with replacing him with someone spectacular waiting in the wings, but Henderson certainly ain’t thay guy. Let’s stop rewarding mediocrity, Henderson made a lot of mistakes last year that would have been highlighted much more at United. Being a GK for Sheff United is another world compared, much easier task.

That is EXACTLY what we did when we made a player who has cost us more points than anyone else over the last 3 years our highest paid player

 

[Volumiza]

I think the plan is to get Henderson in regardless of last night. There's no way the club would have offered him those terms unless they had real plans for him and there's no way Henderson would have signed these years away had he not believed he was going to get the opportunity to take over from DDG.

I'm all for giving Henderson the chance now but all those calling DDG sh*t and other hyperbolic nonsense is so ridiculous. Still a top, top keeper.

 

[Betson]

Fantastic player over the years but there has been a noticeable decline in the last few, the 3rd goal just summed it up.

It is not a physical decline. If he really wanted to get to that ball he would have. But these days he is not willing to risk taking a clatter to stop a goal for a team he reckons is going nowhere anyway. He is just playing down his time now for a club stuck in Limbo. Certainly not the hungry driven type of player that Utd need right now.

 

[Leftback99]

He's living off the back off his performances from years ago. On paper he makes our team look better than it is, on the pitch he offers nothing an average PL keeper couldn't.

 

[EdinburghDevil]

Our defence needs all the help they can get, likely terrified to make a mistake as DDG isn't at the races. He started the season better that he finished last season with the competition from Henderson. However, it's time for him to step aside.

We should be looking to offload him in the summer. Henderson will have had plenty of games by that point to prove if he is the number 1 or we need to go looking for one in the summer window. Chelsea have looked much better defensively since Kepa was cut.

 

[Wilt]

Seriously, how do we offload someone who’s on £375,000 per week and who’s form is in decline?

 

[Oranges038]

Honestly think it's time for him to either man up or move out, you never hear him shouting at the defenders, they are all too weak and not vocal or aggressive enough at the back.

Last night though, he's not really at total fault for any of the goals. Maybe if he's more vocal he can shout at AWB and Shaw for being out of position for the first two. But those two goals are all the fault of AWB and Shaw. De Gea has very little chance to save either.

Its also nonsense that you can try and totally blame him for that third goal, Lindelof, Pogba, Maguire, AWB and Williams are all more at fault than him.

Lindelof, poor pass to Pogba, Pogba poor touch and attempt to close down, AWB throws a token leg out to block the cross. Maguire and Wiliams are day dreaming while men run by them.

The ball shouldn't even get as far as it did, yes he's on his heels and stuck to his line but he's expecting Maguire to deal with it, he doesn't and then De Gea is too slow to react, yes he should dive on the ball, but he is the last person out of at least 5 to be at fault for that goal.

 

[McTerminator]

I have felt this way for a long time, but our defence will never look any good while DDG is between the sticks.

pundits refer to it as a back five for a reason, because they need to work together and rely on each other at all times. Here are, in my opinion, some of the reasons DDG makes our defenders look worse than they are:

1. communication. The keeper has the best view of the play and top keepers scream at their defenders to organise them and snuff out chances before they have to get their gloves dirty;

2. Command of area. Again top keepers will come out and claim the ball at corners when the ball is played in behind and generally in all of the areas where our defence is shown to be it’s most vulnerable. We blame our defenders, but visit and Rio could leave that sort of work to VDS as they should have;

3. Distribution. Henderson, Bruno, Pogba... need I say more?

4. penalties. His track record here is beyond poor. I appreciate that you don’t expect a keeper to save a penalty, especially with the new rules, but I count the goal as soon as the penalty is conceded by United and that is not normal;

5. Confidence. If you have a keeper that does all of the above, it gives the rest of the team a boost and they trust him to do his job leaving them to focus on theirs more rather than covering additional duties.

no in the interest of fairness DDG pulls off some worldies, but I can take conceding a worldy goal, I cannot take goals like the third last night.

you can quote me when Dean gets the number 1full time.

 

[Walrus]

Henderson should be given his chance for the reasons others have outlined. De Gea does not inspire confidence - our entire back line always looks vulnerable with him. I do not think it is a coincidence that all of our defenders seem to suddenly look awful once we have signed them - the common factor is the GK.

De Gea has always been an excellent shot stopper but not much else. For a team at the level we aspire to, that is simply not sufficient or even the priority. He may pull off the occasional ridiculous save, but it is more than counteracted by all the goals we concede due to poor communication, poor organisation, hesitation etc.

This is before we even get into other qualities like distribution.

 

[GiddyUp]

I think the plan is to get Henderson in regardless of last night. There's no way the club would have offered him those terms unless they had real plans for him and there's no way Henderson would have signed these years away had he not believed he was going to get the opportunity to take over from DDG.

I'm all for giving Henderson the chance now but all those calling DDG sh*t and other hyperbolic nonsense is so ridiculous. Still a top, top keeper.

Look at the stats posted above, he is practically rock bottom in a number of important facets to a goalkeepers game. Even the super duper saves he makes are replicated by numerous goalkeepers around Europe on the same day. He's not a top top keeper by any stretch.

 

[Man of Leisure]

Seriously, how do we offload someone who’s on £375,000 per week and who’s form is in decline?

We found a way with Alexis who was on even more and in worse form

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

The cowardice to turn his back insteadof diving on that ball. Has to be dropped for the imo.

Don't really thibk Henderson is going to be the answer, but De Gea cannot so that and nothing happen.

 

[Ali Dia]

He's making too many mistakes that cost us lot since 2018/2019. He's done great before but I think it has gone too long and time to move on. 365k p/w is a lot of money. The club needs to learn about it as well not giving player a ridiculous wages even when that player has performed for years. In my opinion, anything above 250k p/w for world class keeper is already way too much amount wages so never mind 365k p/w.

it just goes to show how much of a mess we are behind the scenes that it cost us that much just to keep him. He clearly wanted out for ages and was unhappy and most importantly on the decline. Oh here’s a world record keeper wage to keep you sweet. That’s how much persuading DDG needed to sign a new deal. How come we never hear about Neuer contract disputes or his wage? Because their club is well run. I’m glad we didn’t fall into the same trap with Pogba at least....

 

[Viral United]

Seriously, how do we offload someone who’s on £375,000 per week and who’s form is in decline?

If we put him in market, i am sure we will find some clubs.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

If we put him in market, i am sure we will find some clubs.

Who? Barca have MATS, Real have Courtois, Atleti have Oblak, Juve have Szczesny, Bayern have Neuer, PSG have Navas, Chelsea have Mendy, and you'd never sell to City or Liverpool but it's irrelevant because of Ederson / Alisson - that's basically all the clubs in the world that could possibly afford his wages, all of whom have goalkeepers who are significantly better.

 

[balaks]

Seriously, how do we offload someone who’s on £375,000 per week and who’s form is in decline?

Wait... a goalkeeper is on £350k per week? Are you serious?

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

The football Atletico have played since he left would’ve been perfect for him, they defend the box with their lives, he couldn’t control the box if his life depended on it

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Sounds harsh but I was really hoping De Gea would miss a few weeks when he banged his knee. He’s a legend but Henderson deserves a proper shot and Ole isn’t going to give him one while De Gea is ahead.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Wait... a goalkeeper is on £350k per week? Are you serious?

Yep. He's the highest paid player in the PL.