Some might say Spanish football managers post 2018 got everything wrong
DDG: Over 400 apps for our club. Legend status! Was he the best we've had? Shoot!
- Thread starter simplyared
- Start date
Saw almost all of Pete
Saw all of vdS
Saw all of DdG.
Edwin and Pete were far clear. organisation and distribution were on another planet, let alone level.
Saw all of vdS
Saw all of DdG.
Edwin and Pete were far clear. organisation and distribution were on another planet, let alone level.
I’m not sure the ‘better defenders’ argument really works given the GK isn’t sat in isolation behind his back 4 (well DDG actually was which was an issue) he’s part of the defensive unit.
It does seem consensus on here is Big Pete or Edwin as 1 and 2 and then DDG as 3.
It does seem consensus on here is Big Pete or Edwin as 1 and 2 and then DDG as 3.
If course it does.
Just compare the back 4 in front of Schmeichel and VdS over those De Gea had to work with.
The former two had the pleasure of working with some all time great United defenders and some that are all time great of the game itself. De Gea got the tail end of some all time great and then what basically amounted to a Benny Hill skit until last season.
It wasn't just about the individuals either and even those who came in when needed were of a higher quality than those starting as first teamers in front of De Gea.
Does not context play some sort of role in this debate?
De Gea, did not have the luxury of having Pallister and Bruce or Stam and then later a Vidic and Ferdinand ( during their optimum years) in front of him. Furthermore, during De Gea's peak seasons, United had a poor central midfield that was unable to control matches. Again there was no Ince, Keane, Butt, Scholes or peak Carrick.
If United were controlling matches, De Gea would not have had to make the saves he had to. The mark of a great goal keeper is to be there and alert when called upon. If United is a team challenging for honours during the 2014- 2022 seasons then De Gea is not heavily relied upon, which should be the case for a top team.
Thirdly, De Gea had a series of dinosaurs as his main coaches and therefore, was unable to develop his game to which "modern goal keepers" are now judged. Instead he was too busy making wonder saves and keeping United in matches they otherwise would have lost.
I feel if Ferguson had been around ( or De Gea had the benefit of a younger Sir Alex), he would have had the coaching to be a dominant keeper from opposing set pieces.
De Gea would have won a lot more if the transfer to Madrid had gone through, but to sum United up under Woodward and the Glazer's, they could not even get that right.
De Gea, did not have the luxury of having Pallister and Bruce or Stam and then later a Vidic and Ferdinand ( during their optimum years) in front of him. Furthermore, during De Gea's peak seasons, United had a poor central midfield that was unable to control matches. Again there was no Ince, Keane, Butt, Scholes or peak Carrick.
If United were controlling matches, De Gea would not have had to make the saves he had to. The mark of a great goal keeper is to be there and alert when called upon. If United is a team challenging for honours during the 2014- 2022 seasons then De Gea is not heavily relied upon, which should be the case for a top team.
Thirdly, De Gea had a series of dinosaurs as his main coaches and therefore, was unable to develop his game to which "modern goal keepers" are now judged. Instead he was too busy making wonder saves and keeping United in matches they otherwise would have lost.
I feel if Ferguson had been around ( or De Gea had the benefit of a younger Sir Alex), he would have had the coaching to be a dominant keeper from opposing set pieces.
De Gea would have won a lot more if the transfer to Madrid had gone through, but to sum United up under Woodward and the Glazer's, they could not even get that right.
I know some older fans and they have said Dave does well to scrape top 5 behind Pete, VDS
Gregg & Stepney.
3rd out of those 3 from what I've seen. Schmeichel and VDS were just so much better at everything, even shot stopping. DDG has his crazy relfex saves, doesn't make him a better shot stopper, he's always had an inconsistency there, and this is reflected in the stats.
Gregg & Stepney.
3rd out of those 3 from what I've seen. Schmeichel and VDS were just so much better at everything, even shot stopping. DDG has his crazy relfex saves, doesn't make him a better shot stopper, he's always had an inconsistency there, and this is reflected in the stats.
VDS regularly had a save % of over 80%, in 07/08 it was over 90%. He was much better shot stopper, because he had better positioning and anticipation. DDG relied purely on reflexes, only once had he got a save % of over 80%, even his best seasons other than that were below VDS average even when he was at Fulham.
I think so, he was labelled the worst keeper ever to play for Spain a few years ago, has barely been seen in a Spanish squad since he had that shocker against Ukraine.
I think this thread is defunct. De Gea and "legend status" in the same title? Only somebody that started watching United post 2011 would consider him a club legend.
Ironically, that reads like the opinion of a 12 year old.
Explain to me the irony?
As good as DDG was at his peak, I still feel Peter Schmeichel was a "generational" goalkeeper. His pure size and aggressive style literally struck fear into opposition CFs.
In addition, when I think of defining moments from Manchester Utd goalkeepers, I think of his performance vs Newcastle, the "starfish' save vs Inter or the penalty save from Bergkamp.
I would encourage any poster who doesn't remember it live to watch the VHS of United 1-0 Newcastle at St James Park.
In addition, when I think of defining moments from Manchester Utd goalkeepers, I think of his performance vs Newcastle, the "starfish' save vs Inter or the penalty save from Bergkamp.
I would encourage any poster who doesn't remember it live to watch the VHS of United 1-0 Newcastle at St James Park.
I'd imagine VDS faced far less shots though than De Gea for obvious reasons.
VdS was obviously a better keeper but that's no slight against De Gea. It's just a testament to how good Edwin was and of course Schmeichel who is widely regarded as the greatest ever, at least in PL history.
His distribution has been viewed an issue long before Alisson and Ederson got everyone dreaming of dribbling goalkeepers.
One of my earliest memories of watching football was Schmeichel starting several Denmark counter-attacks by picking out players near the half-way line using throws. This was in Euro 1992.
Schmeichel
De Gea
Van der Sar
Gregg
Stepney
2016 De Gea if he had peak Vidic and Ferdinand ahead of him would be considered far better than VDS. He had a lot of crap ahead of him in his peak years.
De Gea was never an elite distributor but he was serviceable (that wasn’t his main issue, it has always been command of his box), but what he was good at he was great at. It more than made up for it. He went from no mistakes + several unbelievable saves vs several mistakes and not that many unbelievable saves. He clearly declined so it sours the view but he was class and our best player for a few years. He was also best keeper in the league for longer than Van der Sar.
De Gea
Van der Sar
Gregg
Stepney
2016 De Gea if he had peak Vidic and Ferdinand ahead of him would be considered far better than VDS. He had a lot of crap ahead of him in his peak years.
De Gea was never an elite distributor but he was serviceable (that wasn’t his main issue, it has always been command of his box), but what he was good at he was great at. It more than made up for it. He went from no mistakes + several unbelievable saves vs several mistakes and not that many unbelievable saves. He clearly declined so it sours the view but he was class and our best player for a few years. He was also best keeper in the league for longer than Van der Sar.
Van der Sar was the best, DDG was a close second.
Then the rest.
And DDG is an undisputed legend of the club.
Then the rest.
And DDG is an undisputed legend of the club.
De Gea has 45 caps for Spain, they did rate him when he was at his best in 2015-2018 when he played 35 games for them. All you have to do is go back to a game thread or performances thread from back then to see how highly people rated him, some said he was in contention to be one of the greatest keepers ever. And Real Madrid made him a priority to sign him and would have done but for the fax machine. It’s like people just erase this from memory because he’s nowhere near as good in 2023.
I feel the complete opposite. Ferdinand and Vidic shined way more because of VDS.
How long has it been since we last had a squad that does not have anyone who has ever won the English league title?
At times he has been our best player and deserved being paid the highest. The last 10 years were the not the good years for the club. Anyone who says Pete or VDS, forget that they had great CBs in prime in the history of the club, De Gea doesn’t. In a way, He was unlucky not to win Multiple CL with Real as he signed extension with United.
Now is the time to move on and bring in a Modern goalkeeper, but let’s not forget the Dave Saves. The only legend of the club in the Last decade.
The club should have given him a grand send off which he deserves after the long career. He came as a big potential with error prone against long shots and leave as the last man standing from the PL winning team.
Now is the time to move on and bring in a Modern goalkeeper, but let’s not forget the Dave Saves. The only legend of the club in the Last decade.
The club should have given him a grand send off which he deserves after the long career. He came as a big potential with error prone against long shots and leave as the last man standing from the PL winning team.
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Loved De Gea at his best, certain games seemed almost comical in how many saves he'd make that seemed impossible.
Van Der Sar is the best goalkeeper to ever play for Man Utd though.
Van Der Sar is the best goalkeeper to ever play for Man Utd though.
This. There is a reason VDS was playing at Fulham at age 35. Put VDS behind of Maguire and Lindelof and he would be ball watching, in alot of goals. Alot of those DDG feet saves VDS would be extremely slow to get down to.
But all in all, in making a good/perfect team you will take VDS
VDS has to be out greatest, schmeichel second, then de gea but I think the first two are clear Infront of DDG
Not our greatest overall but on pure shot stopping alone probably the best for me.
Van Der Sar was twice the keeper De Gea was and the best goalkeeper in the history of the Premier League. He was slow to get down in his last season because he was 40 and stayed a year too long but he made loads of stunning reflex saves before whilst also being drastically better at organising a defence, claiming crosses and with his feet/distribution.
I like De Gea so don't want it to sound like I'm putting him down but he really shouldn't be compared to Van Der Sar, it's not fair to him.
Even when VDS was at his prime, De Gea was a better shot stopper and had the better reflexes.
That is correct, I'd argue he had better reflexes than any keeper I've ever seen along with a young Casillas. To me that one trait is nowhere near enough to make him a better or equal keeper.
True, vds was better in almost every other metric and, most importantly, more consistent throughout his career.
2018 peak ddg with the man bun was absolutely unreal though. I can hardly remember him having a decent performance for Spain to be fair, but that never bothered me as a United fan
During his peak, his shot stopping was better than Van der Sar's and seriously rivaled Schmeichel's. However, Schmeichel was far more dominant/commanding and Van der Sar organised his defence far better than De Gea. He's third in line and that is no criticism. Take a bow David and thank you.
It's roughly about the same, really not much in it at all. You'd have to look at the quality of the chances for a better picture, but that stuff isn't available for VDS. But even having a save % of 75-80% even whilst playing for Fulham over 4 seasons shows how good he was.
VDS was a much better keeper in every department.
Oh he was brilliant in his own way at times absolutely. I really don't want to sound like I'm putting him down it's just unfair to compare him to Van Der Sar.True, vds was better in almost every other metric and, most importantly, more consistent throughout his career.
2018 peak ddg with the man bun was absolutely unreal though. I can hardly remember him having a decent performance for Spain to be fair, but that never bothered me as a United fan
It's like if someone compares Rashford to what Ronaldo did at Utd. I'd have to point out some of Raahfords negatives in comparison despite me thinking he's a very good player.
Schmeichel was ahead of the rest followed by VDS, then De Gea, in the Premier era.
And where is van der Gouw? Much better than Taibi
I think it hinges on how much weight you place on his long decline which is the most distinguishing factor between the three keepers. Schmeichel dropped off post ‘97 while VDS lacked the athleticism of his 20s, but neither had De Gea’s tragic end of several seasons of struggle.
Comparing their best years for United they were each arguably the best fit for each of those eras. Schmeichel’s physical dominance and aggressive personality suited the 90s and how United were bossing their rivals at the time. Van der Sar’s modern European and calm style fitted the United of the late 2000s where he was reliable when called upon once or twice a game. And De Gea’s one-man-defence performances were just what a comparatively beleaguered United needed for much of the 2010s.
If we take an overall average performance of their times at the club, De Gea would be well behind because he dropped so many 5/10 showings in recent years to offset the 9 and 10/10 he’d excelled at previously. Looking at their peaks or best 4-5 year period, I’d rate him close to Schmeichel and ahead of Van der Sar. Ultimately I think it depends what you place most weight on.
Comparing their best years for United they were each arguably the best fit for each of those eras. Schmeichel’s physical dominance and aggressive personality suited the 90s and how United were bossing their rivals at the time. Van der Sar’s modern European and calm style fitted the United of the late 2000s where he was reliable when called upon once or twice a game. And De Gea’s one-man-defence performances were just what a comparatively beleaguered United needed for much of the 2010s.
If we take an overall average performance of their times at the club, De Gea would be well behind because he dropped so many 5/10 showings in recent years to offset the 9 and 10/10 he’d excelled at previously. Looking at their peaks or best 4-5 year period, I’d rate him close to Schmeichel and ahead of Van der Sar. Ultimately I think it depends what you place most weight on.
I dont really remember Schmeichel but I'd have VDS just above him.
His passing is poor. Aside from that, what areas? He was our best player for about 5 years.
Fecking hell, some really have it in for the bloke huh?
Great servant of the club, last two to three seasons he didn't have his best showing. Unfortunate it had to end on a contract year, hopefully he'll be brought back in some testimonial or club ambassador capacity with proper ownership.
Probably would have ended like in the Spanish NT. RM don't forgive howlers like we do.
So true.
He has weaknesses but he’s not the only reason why we were so crap. Having said that, he’s still a great player with unbelievable super shot stopping ability. I may argue he’s a club legend but definitely ranked 3rd behind Big Pete and VDS.
No pal you're wrong there. Early sixties when I started going to OT. We had another Dave between the sticks then. 5ft 10ins so wasn't "Big" Dave by any means. His other name was Gaskell. Spectacular keeper but had to be content playing second fiddle to Harry Gregg. Now there's a legend for yer!
1991-92. It was the same at the start of 1992-93 until, on the 26th of November 1992, we signed a certain Frenchman from the then reigning champions, Leeds.