Dean Henderson has to be our #1 next season? Poll added

[BenitoSTARR]

That's the issue as well though. A supposedly WC keeper on an exorbitant wage, being OK is completely unacceptable.

Just FYI, this is a good comparison and has one suggestion we phase him in a la Ter Stegen. I'll meet you in the middle and I'm on with that . https://www.footballcritic.com/features/are-david-de-geas-days-at-man-united-numberedc/965

Not when we have a good up and coming keeper ready to push him on next season.

Start De Gea and let Henderson compete with him next season as I suggested earlier and so i’d be happy with that.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

@BenitoSTARR

I'm still defending DDG. However, your logic is just ridiculous. A keeper is not a midfielder or attackers, the same logic shouldn't be applied!

DDG makes good saves this season which is why the manager is still playing him. However, the critics is fully deserved because he's making too many mistakes and cost us points. This is the difficulty of being keeper in a top level, they can't make too many mistakes.

 

[Idxomer]

I don't who exactly but I would love having again a keeper with a real command of his area, even more so than a one with a ball-playing ability.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

@BenitoSTARR

I'm still defending DDG. However, your logic is just ridiculous. A keeper is not a midfielder or attackers, the same logic shouldn't be applied!

DDG makes good saves this season which is why the manager is still playing him. However, the critics is fully deserved because he's making too many mistakes and cost us points. This is the difficulty of being keeper in a top level, they can't make too many mistakes.

Then you’re missing my point or have made no attempt to understand the context in which it’s made. A striker occasionally missing an XG is a very similar idea to a GK not saving an XS. At some point every striker misses an XG in the same way a GK misses an XS.

Henderson tonight for example let in a shot that De Gea is well accustomed to dealing with yet it would be entirely unfair to say he’s not good based on that expectation.

I believe people are being unfairly reactionary towards DDG who has had a terrible game against Chelsea.

What I am highlighting is that other players have also made mistakes yet we are far more forgiving of those despite the fact that Rashford finishing a few sitters would have propelled us farther than De Gea letting in a goal. He’s had an ok season which I’m ok with. I’m not ecstatic and happy but it’s not a serious issue yet and I trust Ole and De Gea to help improve it.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

If I was Henderson and was told to go out on loan even after watching the highest paid GK cost his team important games, I would seriously think about my future. But that's just me.

If we are going to play a keeper who has the occasional howler in him, why not Henderson?

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Then you’re missing my point or have made no attempt to understand the context in which it’s made. A striker occasionally missing an XG is a very similar idea to a GK not saving an XS. At some point every striker misses an XG in the same way a GK misses an XS.

Henderson tonight for example let in a shot that De Gea is well accustomed to dealing with yet it would be entirely unfair to say he’s not good based on that expectation.

I believe people are being unfairly reactionary towards DDG who has had a terrible game against Chelsea.

What I am highlighting is that other players have also made mistakes yet we are far more forgiving of those despite the fact that Rashford finishing a few sitters would have propelled us farther than De Gea letting in a goal. He’s had an ok season which I’m ok with. I’m not ecstatic and happy but it’s not a serious issue yet and I trust Ole and De Gea to help improve it.

You decide to ignore everything since the 2018 WC? He is not a modern GK that is good with his feet or distribution. And the one think he is good at also has question marks over him in recent times. The number of errors he is making per season is not good enough!

2 years is enough proof that it's not gonna get any better. I would love to be proven wrong but I simply don't see him turning it around.

As I said in my previous post in this thread, better play Henderson if we are playing a GK who is prone to mistakes.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Then you’re missing my point or have made no attempt to understand the context in which it’s made. A striker occasionally missing an XG is a very similar idea to a GK not saving an XS. At some point every striker misses an XG in the same way a GK misses an XS.

Henderson tonight for example let in a shot that De Gea is well accustomed to dealing with yet it would be entirely unfair to say he’s not good based on that expectation.

I believe people are being unfairly reactionary towards DDG who has had a terrible game against Chelsea.

What I am highlighting is that other players have also made mistakes yet we are far more forgiving of those despite the fact that Rashford finishing a few sitters would have propelled us farther than De Gea letting in a goal. He’s had an ok season which I’m ok with. I’m not ecstatic and happy but it’s not a serious issue yet and I trust Ole and De Gea to help improve it.

There is no similarity in there. A striker missing an XG, the team can still create chance to score for next chance. DDG can make 10 saves in a game but if the keeper makes just one mistake in that game and cost us point then all those 10 saves he made is pointless.

Never compare the responsibility of striker & keeper. Massive difference! I can defend DDG however I can't defend a poster who makes comparison of striker & keeper, it's just silly mate.

 

[Dosse]

Start Romero and let Henderson compete with him.

 

[Chicharo]

For those who said DDG had cost us lost season
Are you serious?
Yes he is faaaar away from the form when he saved our asses 150 times, but you cannot forget it. Also bear in mind how shit our defense is, not to mention er fo not hve proper substitutes

 

[BenitoSTARR]

You decide to ignore everything since the 2018 WC? He is not a modern GK that is good with his feet or distribution. And the one think he is good at also has question marks over him in recent times. The number of errors he is making per season is not good enough!

2 years is enough proof that it's not gonna get any better. I would love to be proven wrong but I simply don't see him turning it around.

As I said in my previous post in this thread, better play Henderson if we are playing a GK who is prone to mistakes.

When people are suggesting we drop De Gea for Romero in the last two PL games yes I think it’s reactionary.

If you want a GK who is good with their feet and distribution De Gea is better than Henderson in that metric. Your arguing against what you claim to want by making that change.

How many errors has Henderson made this season? Under less pressure with less scrutiny. Lots.

I like Henderson and would love him to be the successor to De Gea but the solution isn’t throw him in at the deep end and chuck De Gea.

There is no similarity in there. A striker missing an XG, the team can still create chance to score for next chance. DDG can make 10 saves in a game but if the keeper makes just one mistake in that game and cost us point then all those 10 saves he made is pointless.

Never compare the responsibility of striker & keeper. Massive difference! I can defend DDG however I can't defend a poster who makes comparison of striker & keeper, it's just silly mate.

And the GK can still save the next shot? It’s not like they have one shot per game to deal with. Think about how other teams get other chances. If a striker can miss and still score another a GK can concede and save another. It balances out over time.

The 10 other saves aren’t pointless as you’d lose by a larger margin. It’s pointless trying to help you understand what is a very simple analogy. Every player makes mistakes yet we focus more on Gk and the actual reason for me making this comparison was that it’s completely unfair to say De Gea is the reason we aren’t higher up in the table which was what I was responding to.

I don’t need you to defend me at all especially if you aren’t able to understand the simple idea of a Goal gaining two points and Conceding losing one.

 

[Number4.]

Sell Henderson to Chelsea for 40 odd million, offer that plus DDG to Athletico for Oblak

 

[Møllemanden]

For those who said DDG had cost us lost season
Are you serious?
Yes he is faaaar away from the form when he saved our asses 150 times, but you cannot forget it. Also bear in mind how shit our defense is, not to mention er fo not hve proper substitutes

Our defense have had quite a few clean sheets during our unbeaten run. My issue is, i've never trusted De Gea. There has always been that gut feeling that a mistake was looming. I never had that with Schmeichel or Van der Sar. And that's what we should be aiming for. David has had some outstanding games for us at times, but the frequency of the errors has been on a Barthez-esque level for two years now. It's simply not good enough, if your defense can't rely on the goalkeeper.

 

[Ventura]

I thought the contract extension was a bad idea, and now it's going to be hard to move DDG on and get another one in. So our chance for a change would be Henderson. But I suspect he's either not ready or just not at the required standard.

 

[Møllemanden]

But I suspect he's either not ready or just not at the required standard.

He's been very consistent for two Premier League campaigns now. That's way more than you can say about De Gea. We wont know if Henderson is good enough for United, until he gets a proper run in the first team. And right now, we've got nothing to lose.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

He's been very consistent for two Premier League campaigns now. That's way more than you can say about De Gea. We wont know if Henderson is good enough for United, until he gets a proper run in the first team. And right now, we've got nothing to lose.

Two campaigns?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

And the GK can still save the next shot? It’s not like they have one shot per game to deal with. Think about how other teams get other chances. If a striker can miss and still score another a GK can concede and save another. It balances out over time.

The 10 other saves aren’t pointless as you’d lose by a larger margin. It’s pointless trying to help you understand what is a very simple analogy. Every player makes mistakes yet we focus more on Gk and the actual reason for me making this comparison was that it’s completely unfair to say De Gea is the reason we aren’t higher up in the table which was what I was responding to.

I don’t need you to defend me at all especially if you aren’t able to understand the simple idea of a Goal gaining two points and Conceding losing one.

This is not some kind of Sunday League football. This is a top level professional football. How many years have you been following football? This is not just uncommon thing. The view of striker is always different to the view of GK.

"Being a good person is like being a goalkeeper. No matter how many goals you save, some people will only remember the one you missed." - Iker Casillas

You can't compare a GK's responsibility to striker's responsibility. It's different role, the logic just doesn't apply. There is a reason why there is only 1 keeper but there are more than 1 striker in XI. The keeper is the last man, if the keeper keeps making easy mistakes that cost his team, critics always there.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

This is not some kind of Sunday League football. This is a top level professional football. How many years have you been following football? This is not just uncommon thing. The view of striker is always different to the view of GK.

"Being a good person is like being a goalkeeper. No matter how many goals you save, some people will only remember the one you missed." - Iker Casillas

You can't compare a GK's responsibility to striker's responsibility. It's different role, the logic just doesn't apply. There is a reason why there is only 1 keeper but there are more than 1 striker in XI. The keeper is the last man, if the keeper keeps making easy mistakes that cost his team, critics always there.

Why are you on about Sunday league?

I understand the difference if you still don’t understand the point I was making I suggest re reading the context it’s not hard.

You can compare in the sense you can lose points from mistakes at either end.

We only have one striker in our XI. Do you mean goalscorer? Because you can concede through no fault of the GK.

The striker is the last man on the opposite end. If they keep missing tap ins...

 

[jeff_goldblum]

Even at his best De Gea had clear weaknesses in his game which cost us goals and limited our tactics to an extent, but he wasn't making mistakes and his ability to routinely save shots which other keepers wouldn't have gotten near meant that conceding the odd goal we shouldn't have didn't really matter. Current De Gea has all those weaknesses we have to adapt our style to cover for, rarely makes those superhuman 'he had no right getting to that' sort of saves that made him truly special and is making basic mistakes to boot.

 

[gerdm07]

you think i was serious when each position I mentioned was that simplistic. We all know the duties vary with each position on the pitch based on the tactics / style of play / in or out of possession etc etc.

My point was simply, the main aim of the keeper is to stop the freaking ball going into the net and DDG has made too many mistakes not to be questions - yet you don't see to feel you can vote because you've never played keeper before? Odd one that

I guess you think your vote really means something. That's funny.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Why are you on about Sunday league?

I understand the difference if you still don’t understand the point I was making I suggest re reading the context it’s not hard.

You can compare in the sense you can lose points from mistakes at either end.

We only have one striker in our XI. Do you mean goalscorer? Because you can concede through no fault of the GK.

The striker is the last man on the opposite end. If they keep missing tap ins...

Your logic doesn't work on professional top level, that's why I mentioned Sunday League.

You are only reading what I wrote without understanding them. This is the issue about having discussion with you, you need to be explained to every single tiny detail. I got no time to explain the bold mark, I think you are smart enough to understand it.

If you understand the difference between striker & keeper then you shouldn't be comparing them. Not complex, never compare something that is different.

Why do you think people remember Andy Cole United goals more than his United missed but people remember Tim Howard United mistakes more than his United saves? That should give you clear idea.

 

[croadyman]

Exactly. From roughly Feb until Dec last year, the team has been performing very poorly which coincides with our horrible results end of last season and first half this season. Of course De Gea's stats look bad. But you have to look at the team as a whole and over multiple seasons. EVERYONE was bad by their standards. To single De Gea out is nonsense. And all that hyperbole about De Gea, even more so. If people are going to do that, then I can also only look at De Gea's stats from end Jan until now and call him good.

The fairer assessment would be that he has been bang average for us with very good and very bad moments this season. I only hope Ole, the coaches and De Gea can work something to cut out the mistakes. In the next few seasons, we can assess if Henderson is any good and make some decisions a few years down the road. We have 3 - 4 years to decide and slowly make that transition.

Well with the way that De Gea has played these last two years I am not sure we have 3-4 years to decide about whether Henderson has it to be our number one, personally I feel that this decision needs to be made quicker than that because the guy is costing us far too many points a season right now.

 

[AKDevil]

Saw this with regard to passing' ability of Deano.

Essentially, even compared to De Gea (an okay but not more than that passer), Deano compares quite weakly. He has twice the number of long passes compared to De Gea, but only half the accuracy. Perhaps more worryingly, he has only a quarter of short passes. Taking these stats together, it means that he hoofs the ball much more than he should, and he is pretty bad at it.

On the other side, he has been impressive at shot-stopping this season (has outperformed xG for 8.1 compared to De Gea doing it for only 0.2), and is better than De Gea on the air. But for people who want us to see playing from the back and having a sweeper-keeper, Deano is gonna disappoint really badly, considering that he is far worse than De Gea at it (and De Gea is not good on the first place).

So, if Ole wants to play from the back, maybe Deano is not the answer. Is Onana still good (I remember him getting praised here last year)?

In any case, maybe he deserves a chance before we splash the cash in a new keeper. I was more to give Romero the next season (with De Gea being backup trying to get his position back), but we can try the same with Deano. If De Gea manages to get back his position on merit, then we profit. If Deano impresses then we profit. If neither happens, sell both of them next summer, and get Onana (or something of that calibre).

don’t you need more than the numbers, especially to judge long passes? At Sheffield United his are unlikely to be passed but hoofs to turn opposition and then its 50:50 who wins it ... he won’t be playing passes, in the true sense of the word, like Ederson for example.

 

[AKDevil]

I don't who exactly but I would love having again a keeper with a real command of his area, even more so than a one with a ball-playing ability.

Nick Pope is your man from the Premier League. A dying breed.

 

[AKDevil]

For those who said DDG had cost us lost season
Are you serious?
Yes he is faaaar away from the form when he saved our asses 150 times, but you cannot forget it. Also bear in mind how shit our defense is, not to mention er fo not hve proper substitutes

you can forget it if you’re judging him now. Just because he was good once doesn’t mean he should get away with some of the atrocious goalkeeping he’s served up this season.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Unfortunately I dont think we'll ever see Henderson starting for us. He should get a chance next season, but knowing how much is De Gea earning its just not possible to have him on the bench, it would disrupt the whole team.

Either we sell De Gea or he plays, I think we should take a hit and let him go for any fee we might get from him. The problem is he's been so bad the last 2 years, earning so much money and with the top teams having the position covered that I dont see any team that can realistically afford his wages that will be willing to buy him.

Therefore we are stucked with him, we have a "Casillas" kind of problem, we need to ship out a player that has a lot of weight in the squad and I just dont think Ole wants to or has the balls to do it, so as long as his contract is still running he will play, and I dont think Henderson is willing to wait that long.

 

[croadyman]

He has not looked impressive since the restart. He doesn't look ready for me but then again De Gea is awful now

I agree that he may not be the answer but personally feel that the only way De Gea will be forced to up his game is if we bring Deano back to the club this summer, otherwise he will just carry on feeling he is undroppable despite his poor form for the last two years.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I agree that he may not be the answer but personally feel that the only way De Gea will be forced to up his game is if we bring Deano back to the club this summer, otherwise he will just carry on feeling he is undroppable despite his poor form for the last two years.

DDG has done brilliant for us for many years as well not just one or two seasons. He's been loyal & professional for United despite of interest from a club who is caliber to win things at that time. I think the best thing we can do next season is to have faith in him again to turn it around. I hate to do this but I agree, it looks like we might need to bring Deano back to the club to give more competition to DDG, it might stop him making too many silly mistakes that cost us games.

I want Deano to go on loan again but looks like this is the best way to do for the goalkeeper issue that we can do this summer.

 

[VanGaalEra]

What’s Henderson like at commanding his area and coming for crosses?

He’s not great at all with the ball at his feet.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Both have an equal impact in a match.

The point is if you’re trying to blame De Gea for this season you’re wide of the mark. He’s been ok.

I get your point, a striker missing a sitter and a GK gifting a goal both equality have the same impact theorically. But in reality it doesnt work that way, missing a sitter even though it affects the result equally it doesnt affect the morale of the team the same way.

Strikers and keepers are not judged with the same stick, a striker can miss 1 or 2 sitters in game and score and will be evaluated as having a good match. A keeper can save 3 amazing shots and gift a goal and will be judged as having an awful performances.

A keeper cant make mistakes, its harder to make a goal that to defend it thats why is punished a lot more if you gift your opponent one rather than missing one yourself.

 

[SAFMUTD]

DDG has done brilliant for us for many years as well not just one or two seasons. He's been loyal & professional for United despite of interest from a club who is caliber to win things at that time. I think the best thing we can do next season is to have faith in him again to turn it around. I hate to do this but I agree, it looks like we might need to bring Deano back to the club to give more competition to DDG, it might stop him making too many silly mistakes that cost us games.

I want Deano to go on loan again but looks like this is the best way to do for the goalkeeper issue that we can do this summer.

The loyalty I agree is questionable, he always seemed to flirt with Real Madrid and if it not was because the fax failure he would have gone. I appreciate De Gea for what he's give to us, but his loyalty is comparable to Pogba's. When he was worldclass we were always nervous he will jump the ship, he didnt but it wasnt because he didnt wanted to.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

The loyalty I agree is questionable, he always seemed to flirt with Real Madrid and if it not was because the fax failure he would have gone. I appreciate De Gea for what he's give to us, but his loyalty is comparable to Pogba's. When he was worldclass we were always nervous he will jump the ship, he didnt but it wasnt because he didnt wanted to.

What kind of flirt you were talking about? I think you are mistaken him to Pogba. As far what I remember, he kept it quiet, rarely go to media to say he wanted to leave.

 

[SAFMUTD]

What kind of flirt you were talking about? I think you are mistaken him to Pogba. As far what I remember, he kept it quiet, rarely go to media to say he wanted to leave.

Same as Pogba, or has he ever talk to media and said he wanted to leave?

There were all rumors, but De Gea never spoke out and said he didnt want to go to Madrid that he wanted to stay. Same as Pogba he keept quiet and fueled those rumors, Im totally convinced if he had the chance to leave for Madrid he would have.

Same as Pogba, if he had the chance he would have left. But apparently we meassure loyalty different with Pogba and De Gea.

 

[Maluco]

I still think Atletico might fancy de Gea. It wouldn’t be the first time Simeone has plumped for someone seemingly out of fashion and at least tried it out.

Their style of play might work best, having a shot stopper behind a disciplined back-line.

If they fancy it, we should sell Henderson, and us cash to put together an offer with de Gea for Oblak.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Same as Pogba, or has he ever talk to media and said he wanted to leave?

There were all rumors, but De Gea never spoke out and said he didnt want to go to Madrid that he wanted to stay. Same as Pogba he keept quiet and fueled those rumors, Im totally convinced if he had the chance to leave for Madrid he would have.

Same as Pogba, if he had the chance he would have left. But apparently we meassure loyalty different with Pogba and De Gea.

He did last summer publicly. And also his agent has been noise. Compare to DDG? He kept it quiet and just not sign a new contract until the transfer window closed.

Everyone know DDG wanted to leave but he kept it quiet and professional. If he doesn't care about us, he wouldn't sign a new contract when the transfer window closed because he could leave for free.

 

[hmchan]

Just read the whole thread and it's a pretty good analysis to be honest. He has some good points.

I have been talking about this for months but everytime people only pay attention when de Gea makes an obvious mistake.

People from both sides keep talking about de Gea's mistakes as if it's his only problem. It's not. His huge decline in shot stopping is more worrying but few address that.

Season	xGA	GA	Difference
14/15​	39.84​	37​	+2.84​
15/16​	39.66​	35​	+4.66​
16/17​	31.62​	29​	+2.62​
17/18​	43.54​	28​	+15.54​
18/19​	52.30​	54​	-1.70​
19/20 (after 33 matches)​	33.04​	33​	+0.04​

 

[SAFMUTD]

He did last summer publicly. And also his agent has been noise. Compare to DDG? He kept it quiet and just not sign a new contract until the transfer window closed.

Everyone know DDG wanted to leave but he kept it quiet and professional. If he doesn't care about us, he wouldn't sign a new contract when the transfer window closed because he could leave for free.

Pogba say he wanted to leave last summer publicy? I must have missed that, Im looking for it but cant find anything on that. Please share.

The agent I agree, Mino is a pain in the ass, De Gea's agent is no where near as annoying as Mino. Regarding him signing because he cares for us, lets not fool ourselves. He got a massive deal, he stayed because no team will have paid him as much, Im not saying he's not happy here. But to take it as far as to call him "loyal" I dont think so, there are very few players that are loyal, players like Totti with Roma, thats a loyal player.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Pogba say he wanted to leave last summer publicy? I must have missed that, Im looking for it but cant find anything on that. Please share.

The agent I agree, Mino is a pain in the ass, De Gea's agent is no where near as annoying as Mino. Regarding him signing because he cares for us, lets not fool ourselves. He got a massive deal, he stayed because no team will have paid him as much, Im not saying he's not happy here. But to take it as far as to call him "loyal" I dont think so, there are very few players that are loyal, players like Totti with Roma, thats a loyal player.

https://www.espn.com.au/football/cl...a-new-challenge-how-should-man-united-respond

Like I said before, if he doesn’t respect us, he could actually choose not to sign a new contract and leave for free like many players do. I wasn’t referring to Totti’s level of loyalty mate. Totti is a Roma fans, DDG isn’t United fans.

 

[Dante]

 

[SAFMUTD]

https://www.espn.com.au/football/cl...a-new-challenge-how-should-man-united-respond

Like I said before, if he doesn’t respect us, he could actually choose not to sign a new contract and leave for free like many players do. I wasn’t referring to Totti’s level of loyalty mate. Totti is a Roma fans, DDG isn’t United fans.

I saw that one from Pogba before, I didnt remember it. I agree it was plain disrispectful but is not the same so say "maybe its time for me to leave" than "I want to leave". I get the point both are wrong but not the same.

Players tend to not sign in order to get a better contract, like Herrera or Ramsey. De Gea wouldnt have got a better one, thats why he stayed, I have no doubt if PSG or Madrid came calling offering more money he would have left.

At the bottom line, no player is loyal besides very few exceptions such as Totti, and yeah thats the line for me there's no in between. Youre either loyal or youre not, loyal means being with the club besides anything. You cant be loyal until Madrid comes calling, thats not how it works. Thats why I dont agree with calling De Gea loyal, not anything against him but its really hard to find a loyal player not just in football but on any sport.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I saw that one from Pogba before, I didnt remember it. I agree it was plain disrispectful but is not the same so say "maybe its time for me to leave" than "I want to leave". I get the point both are wrong but not the same.

Players tend to not sign in order to get a better contract, like Herrera or Ramsey. De Gea wouldnt have got a better one, thats why he stayed, I have no doubt if PSG or Madrid came calling offering more money he would have left.

At the bottom line, no player is loyal besides very few exceptions such as Totti, and yeah thats the line for me there's no in between. Youre either loyal or youre not, loyal means being with the club besides anything. You cant be loyal until Madrid comes calling, thats not how it works. Thats why I dont agree with calling De Gea loyal, not anything against him but its really hard to find a loyal player not just in football but on any sport.

‘My point about the loyal isn’t being an actual loyal thick and through but he didn’t just go for free when he actually could like other players. Whatever definition you want to call it, I expect you to be smart enough to understand it. If he leaves for free the club will be in disadvantage to lose such a keeper without having a refund to get for replacement.

He wasn’t offered a massive wages when he signed a new contract in 2016. You were talking about Eriksen & Sanchez who asked for ridiculous contract if their choice is to stay, different to DDG. DDG got an improved contract because that’s how a new contract works.