Dean Henderson has to be our #1 next season? Poll added

[PieCrust]

It'd be pretty reckless to have De Gea feck off for Henderson. We've got both signed up for at least another 3 - 4 years with the +1 options.

Best bet for Henderson is to continue to be loaned out getting first team experience and in a couple years he'd be ready to challenge at United for the #1 shirt.

It's completely unrealistic that any club will buy De Gea after the new contract and wages. For better or worse, De Gea will remain the stating keeper for at least the next 2 and possibly 3 years.

 

[Lentwood]

De Gea is still capable of making world class saves but the problem is every other aspect of his game is incredibly poor.

Command of area is non-exist. Claiming of crosses is hopeless. Ability with the ball at his feet is below average.

I think the big issue is, if DDG were on £120K per week I’d say give him one more season and get Henderson out on loan again. The fact Dave is on £350K+ and his net contribution is negative isn’t good enough

 

[nobby the legend]

De Gea is only 29 years old. An young age for a keeper.

 

[roonster09]

Those numbers are disingenuous because some of those attacking players were funded by the sale of other attacking players. For example you've counted £30m each for Sanchez and Mkhitaryan - how does that work when they were both a direct swap?

Once you take out the numbers money we got back for Depay, Di Maria, Mkhitaryan and Lukaku that net investment comes to about £286m in attack. And that's still counting Pogba as an attacker when he's spent the vast majority of his time here in a midfield two.

So that means our investment in attack (which is by far the most valuable part of a team) is actually only slightly more than defence using your own numbers for defence.

Then we have to consider the other aspects too like Valencia retiring, Young being old. Shaw breaking his leg and being very injury prone, Bailly not able to stay fit for more than 2 games, same with Rojo and Jones. We had 1 reliable defender and that was Smalling. Defense needed investment as we didn't have RB and reliable CB who can stay fit.

We also have to consider how much market has changed, 60 million we spent on Di Maria was huge fee back then but now every decent player is rated at higher fee.

We broke record for Maguire among defenders but when we signed we broke records for Mata, Di Maria, Pogba, Lukaku (for ManUtd, world record, PL striker record) and also broke records for wages paid in PL.

We need investment in all areas as we more or less purged the title winning squad.

Its not as if we ignored attacking position either, We signed Mata in 2013-14 when we had RVP, Rooney, Kagawa, Nani, Valencia and others.
In 2014-15 we added Falcao, Di Maria.
In 2015-16 we added Martial, Depay, promoted Rashford.
In 2016-17 we added Zlatan, Pogba, Mkhi
In 2017-18 we added Lukaku and Sanchez
In 2018-19 and 2019-20 we added only James and Ighalo

In every season we added attacking players and sold few too. We score few goals not because we didn't have attackers or ignored that positions, we did as we didn't have balanced team (thanks to managers preferences and their ignorance for right wing position) and poor coaches.

Edit: Btw we should have signed 1 or 2 attackers in this summer but on a whole we haven't ignored attacking positions.

 

[Skills]

Then we have to consider the other aspects too like Valencia retiring, Young being old. Shaw breaking his leg and being very injury prone, Bailly not able to stay fit for more than 2 games, same with Rojo and Jones. We had 1 reliable defender and that was Smalling. Defense needed investment as we didn't have RB and reliable CB who can stay fit.

We also have to consider how much market has changed, 60 million we spent on Di Maria was huge fee back then but now every decent player is rated at higher fee.

We broke record for Maguire among defenders but when we signed we broke records for Mata, Di Maria, Pogba, Lukaku (for ManUtd, world record, PL striker record) and also broke records for wages paid in PL.

We need investment in all areas as we more or less purged the title winning squad.

Its not as if we ignored attacking position either, We signed Mata in 2013-14 when we had RVP, Rooney, Kagawa, Nani, Valencia and others.
In 2014-15 we added Falcao, Di Maria.
In 2015-16 we added Martial, Depay, promoted Rashford.
In 2016-17 we added Zlatan, Pogba, Mkhi
In 2017-18 we added Lukaku and Sanchez
In 2018-19 and 2019-20 we added only James and Ighalo

In every season we added attacking players and sold few too. We score few goals not because we didn't have attackers or ignored that positions, we did as we didn't have balanced team (thanks to managers preferences and their ignorance for right wing position) and poor coaches.

Then you can also consider aspects such as Rooney getting old, Nani/Zaha being driven out of the club, Zlatan's injury/leaving etc. You can try and cloud the arguement as much as you want but we've had similar issues in attack too, but relatively we've invested less in by far the most important part of a team.

Valencia and Young themselves being converted from wingers to FBs were also a loss in options in attack.

 

[Cassidy]

Then you can also consider aspects such as Rooney getting old, Nani/Zaha being driven out of the club, Zlatan's injury/leaving etc. You can try and cloud the arguement as much as you want but we've had similar issues in attack too, but relatively we've invested less in by far the most important part of a team.

Valencia and Young themselves being converted from wingers to FBs were also a loss in options in attack.

Still crying for a RW how many years later

 

[Dave_MUFC]

It'd be pretty reckless to have De Gea feck off for Henderson. We've got both signed up for at least another 3 - 4 years with the +1 options.

Best bet for Henderson is to continue to be loaned out getting first team experience and in a couple years he'd be ready to challenge at United for the #1 shirt.

It's completely unrealistic that any club will buy De Gea after the new contract and wages. For better or worse, De Gea will remain the stating keeper for at least the next 2 and possibly 3 years.

It's quite easy to say loan De Gea out a few seasons, but is that something Dean is really going to want? He'll be wanted by a fair few decent clubs I'd think, and an ambitious player won't be happy to just keep getting loaned out when he has offers to be a key player for a good team. So it may be a case of selling Henderson with a buy-back or selling DDG if an offer comes in.

De Gea is only 29 years old. An young age for a keeper.

I wouldn't quite call him young for a keeper, more like peak years. Probably has 4-5 years at a top level before athleticism starts declining.

 

[Red_Aaron]

We do have a decision to make on Henderson soon due to him now being an established first choice prem keeper (for a top half team too). Henderson won't be interested in coming back as a no.2 and he'll have plenty of offers I'm sure.

On the flip side making him no.1 with ddg still in the squad has potential for squad harmony issues as well as reducing ddgs resale value but shipping dave out and sticking all the eggs in Hendersons basket is also a very big risk for me. No doubt he's done excellently this season but we've all seen very good keepers fall under the pressure of our club

Personally I'd still keep ddg next season and give Henderson another loan in the prem with a view to swapping them over the following year if they're trajectories are going in similar directions

 

[roonster09]

Then you can also consider aspects such as Rooney getting old, Nani/Zaha being driven out of the club, Zlatan's injury/leaving etc. You can try and cloud the arguement as much as you want but we've had similar issues in attack too, but relatively we've invested less in by far the most important part of a team.

Valencia and Young themselves being converted from wingers to FBs were also a loss in options in attack.

We also lost Vidic, Evra, Rio Ferdinand, Rafael, Fabio, Evans and every defender we had except Smalling and Jones.

We needed investment in all areas (as the squad that won the title was all sold and released), problem was the attackers we signed didn't live up to the expectations, so we kept on adding every year and there was lot of changes.

Your last point if anything shows how we have ignored defense. Instead of signing proper FBs we relied on wingers who never played as FBs. There was so many times this stat was floating around, that we still play with same back 5 who played under SAF. We never had same problem in attack. We changed the complete attack under Van Gaal and Jose.

Not sure what your bold part means, you wanted to give context to attacking spend but completely ignore the defenders part, somehow accuse me of clouding the argument.

Anyways in the end we have made investment in all areas, we had shit coaches who didn't know how to set up attacks, so poor returns in the attack. We hired coaches who had negative mindset either defending by sterile possession or defending deep which had impact on attack.

 

[Snuffkin]

De gea is still number one. He's had one bad half and we're going for the throat.

 

[Skills]

We also lost Vidic, Evra, Rio Ferdinand, Rafael, Fabio, Evans and every defender we had except Smalling and Jones.

We needed investment in all areas, problem was the attackers we signed didn't live up to the expectations, so we kept on adding every year and there was lot of changes.

Your last point if anything shows how we have ignored defense. Instead of signing proper FBs we relied on wingers who never played as FBs. There was so many times this stat was floating around, that we still play with same back 5 who played under SAF. We never had same problem in attack. We changed the complete attack under Van Gaal and Jose.

Not sure what your bold part means, you wanted to give context to attacking spend but completely ignore the defenders part, somehow accuse me of clouding the argument.

Anyways in the end we have made investment in all areas, we had shit coaches who didn't know how to set up attacks, so poor returns in the attack. We hired coaches who had negative mindset either defending by sterile possession or defending deep which had impact on attack.

For Vidic we lost Van Persie, for Ferdinand we lost Rooney, for Evans we lost Nani, for Evra we lost Kagawa, for Fabio we lost Zaha. There are similar issues in attack which you're conveniently choosing to ignore.

I was giving context to the attacking spend because you'd manipulated the numbers to show our investment in attack to be far more than it actually was. You then clouded the argument to talk about how the defence was desperate for investment with all the players we'd lost - I'm just saying, the attack was in the same position with all the players we lost in attack too.

 

[roonster09]

For Vidic we lost Van Persie, for Ferdinand we lost Rooney, for Evans we lost Nani, for Evra we lost Kagawa, for Fabio we lost Zaha. There are similar issues in attack which you're conveniently choosing to ignore.

I was giving context to the attacking spend because you'd manipulated the numbers to show our investment in attack to be far more than it actually was. You then clouded the argument to talk about how the defence was desperate for investment with all the players we'd lost - I'm just saying, the attack was in the same position with all the players we lost in attack too.

I didn't choose to ignore, you said we lost attackers or changed one attacker for other, that's why I said it's same for defenders too. We lost almost whole squad.

I didn't manipulate anything. I said it's arguable to add Blind to defense or mid, Pogba for attacking mid or CM (We signed him to improve attack). You just can't read posts properly, not my problem.

I didn't say defence was more priority in all these years, I said defense was also priority like attack as we didn't have RB or CB who had reliable fitness. You are just cherrypicking few points and trying to take everything out of context. You have conveniently ignored my point that we could have made better use of 130 million for Maguire + AWB but we need to add for both positions.

You said attack was ignored, I showed you with numbers that it wasn't. We added attackers, just that they didn't work out.

I don't know how you gave context, we still spent money. If we sold Di Maria for 45 million, that means he wasn't a good transfer and signed his replacement. So we didn't ignore the attack, we just replace him with one more attacker, which is what this is all about.

Only time we ignored attack was this summer when we didn't sign Lukaku replacement, not any season before this.

 

[kundalini]

Save percentage in the CL:

De Gea for United 72%
Courtois 73%
Ter Stegen 77%
Oblak 80%
Neuer 73%
Navas 76%
Szczesny 71%

Save percentage in the PL this season:

De Gea 69%
Henderson 75%
Allison 80%
Guaita 74%
Schmeichel 73%
Dubravka 72.5%
Leno 72%
Ramsdale 68%
Ryan 68%
Patricio 67%
Pope 67%
Gazzaniga 67%
Ederson 66%
Krul 66%
McCarthy 66%
Heaton 65%
Fabianski 65%
Foster 64%
Pickford 61%
Kepa 54%

 

[Dec9003]

It would be incredibly brave for any manager to drop/sell De Gea and bring Henderson back.
If Solskjær has a serious think about it, and decides it’s time for De Gea to go then I’d back him all the way, but it’s a decision that shouldn’t be made on a whim.
It’s clear to most people that De Gea has struggled for the last two seasons, but if Henderson came in and didn’t hit the ground running Ole would be likely to lose his job over that decision imo.

 

[patty123]

It's quite easy to say loan De Gea out a few seasons, but is that something Dean is really going to want? He'll be wanted by a fair few decent clubs I'd think, and an ambitious player won't be happy to just keep getting loaned out when he has offers to be a key player for a good team. So it may be a case of selling Henderson with a buy-back or selling DDG if an offer comes in.

Well he's under contract till 2022, 23 if we take the extra year option, so it's the club to decide whether he comes back early, personally given the contract he signed last summer don't see that happening till next year.

 

[Skills]

I didn't choose to ignore, you said we lost attackers or changed one attacker for other, that's why I said it's same for defenders too. We lost almost whole squad.

I didn't manipulate anything. I said it's arguable to add Blind to defense or mid, Pogba for attacking mid or CM (We signed him to improve attack). You just can't read posts properly, not my problem.

I didn't say defence was more priority in all these years, I said defense was also priority like attack as we didn't have RB or CB who had reliable fitness. You are just cherrypicking few points and trying to take everything out of context. You have conveniently ignored my point that we could have made better use of 130 million for Maguire + AWB but we need to add for both positions.

You said attack was ignored, I showed you with numbers that it wasn't. We added attackers, just that they didn't work out.

I don't know how you gave context, we still spent money. If we sold Di Maria for 45 million, that means he wasn't a good transfer and signed his replacement. So we didn't ignore the attack, we just replace him with one more attacker, which is what this is all about.

Only time we ignored attack was this summer when we didn't sign Lukaku replacement, not any season before this.

1. It's not though, because the only way you could make that work out is once you started adding in Ferguson year defenders conveniently ignoring we also lost Ferguson year attackers.

2. I gave you Pogba in attack and Blind in midfield (even though Pogba has played the majority of his games here in a midfield 2 and Blind at CB/LB). By the logic that Pogba was here to help the attack - do Matic and Schneiderlin count for defence then too? You then also for some reason valued Sanchez at £35m when we actually swapped him for Mkhitaryan.

3. But still our net investment in attack was less or marginally more (depending on which players you're attributing to attack or defence) than our investment in attack.

 

[TsuWave]

Kepa, who is the most expensive goalkeeper in the world, was benched for an 38-year-old for arguably less.

You guys just get on here and say anything. Anyone that’s watched Chelsea this season knows this is nonsensical. Kepa’s wrists are made of play dough. The amount of goal he has shipped that De Gea would have without a doubt saved is ridiculous

 

[Himannv]

I think DDG gets complacent at times and what he needs is probably some competition for that automatic starting spot. He's still a top keeper when he's on his game and I certainly wouldn't think of replacing him just yet.

 

[Devil81]

Everton away has always been a game where you silence their crowd early and they usually fall to pieces. Naturally on the other hand if you let them into the game the crowd gain extra voice and the players usually respond with a gutsy performance.

De Gea basically gave them the leg up they needed with 2 minutes yesterday. Mistake after mistake after mistake, its actually criminal Romero hasn't got more minutes given the form of De Gea over the last two seasons, I get him accepting being understudy to an in form keeper but he must be fuming he's being overlooked week in week out. Henderson is a difficult one, he's been clear in saying he's not coming back as an understudy which is actually a bit cheeky if you ask me as you should really break into a team unless you are bought for a purpose.

Having said that I do think its time to move on De Gea, he's gone stale and he's also been found out aerially. How Everton didn't find the net from a corner yesterday is a mystery as he's never comfortable gathering in crosses or against physical attackers.

The bigger issue is the contract, we've been done again by a player and agent. Madrid were desperate for him apparently, it was only a matter of time, his missus wanted him home and his heart was in Real. Signs a big fat contract and nobody is interested and his missus isn't bothered anymore. Now we're stuck with the highest paid keeper in the world who you couldn't give away as nobody will cover that wage as there are comparable keepers earning less.

This is the biggest mistake of the lot, you can rotate a winger/striker out of a team but a keeper has to be playing, you can't justify a keeper on 350k a week on the bench.

It's a complete disaster and he will cost us more points over and over again because in my opinion he's done. It's a mental thing rather than a ability thing.

 

[Fracture90]

The obsession with De Gea's saves is weird on here. Every good goalkeeper in the premier league makes them. He gets paid 300k a fecking week and does THAT in minute two of the game. How can you excuse that. I don't see the motivation in him to win. He's a talented goalkeeper that's won titles with us but I'd rather take Deano who's got the fecking hunger to prove himself. And hey turns out Hendersons up there in PL cleansheets and is United bred. It isn't fecking rocket science.

Mate, there's no need to exaggerat and rewrite history in order to state your case.

There's a reason as to why DDG was considered top3 if not the best GK in the world for years.

Saves he made I only saw from Neuer and Oblak.

 

[roonster09]

1. It's not though, because the only way you could make that work out is once you started adding in Ferguson year defenders conveniently ignoring we also lost Ferguson year attackers.

2. I gave you Pogba in attack and Blind in midfield (even though Pogba has played the majority of his games here in a midfield 2 and Blind at CB/LB). By the logic that Pogba was here to help the attack - do Matic and Schneiderlin count for defence then too? You then also for some reason valued Sanchez at £35m when we actually swapped him for Mkhitaryan.

3. But still our net investment in attack was less or marginally more (depending on which players you're attributing to attack or defence) than our investment in attack.

1. Not sure what you mean by that (I said multiple times that we purged whole title winning squad which means we lost players in every position) . I just gave you numbers, you came up with how we have lost attackers and replaced them with other attackers, so we have to go by net spend. I said we have lost defenders too just like we lost attackers. We got good money for selling attackers but got feck all for selling defenders. We don't run 3 accounts where we invest money made by selling attackers only on attackers. We have signed good number of attackers, that's the point. Whenever we have lost attacker, we replaced them except this season.

We signed Di Maria when he didn't work out we signed Depay and Martial.
When Depay didn't work out we had already signed Mkhitaryan and promoted Rashford.
When Mkhi didnt work out we swapped him with Sanchez.
When Zlatan was injured we signed Lukaku.

So it's not as if we ignored attack, we replaced players when they moved on just like in any other position. Ignoring attack means what we did this summer when we sold Lukaku and didn't replace him.

2. I went with transfermarkt numbers, both were valued at 35 million. You are also considering only transfer money as investment. How much did we invest to sign Sanchez? That should beat AWB transfer even though Sanchez is a free transfer. We signed Falcao on loan and Zlatan on free transfer but the investment made on them is more than on James who was signed for 16 million.

3. Again not sure why you want net investment. We don't have 3 accounts. We lose attacker, we replace them with one. We lost DI Maria and signed Martial. So we didn't ignore the position, these players left for one or the other reason. Far from ignoring it (just to make myself clear except this summer).

Struggling to score goals doesn't mean attack is ignored, it means we signed poor coaches and set up is poor to score more goals.

 

[Tom Cato]

Cannot stand De Gea's performances this season.

Yeah, this can be seen as knee-jerk but it's happened 7 times this season. We have to be ruthless, bar Alisson, Henderson has been up there as one of the best.

Poll?

7 mistakes that lead to a goal since the start of last season. I'm not defending the man but I do love me some factual statements.

De Gea is fantastic. Until he isn't. Last season, despite hos absolute heroics for large parts of the season, he was directly responsible for conceding goals that cost the teams points, and it's CL bid. He's done it again now, and he sure picks the worst times to do it.

Like, I can forgive one per year if I fanboy hard, but these kind of amateur hour mistakes are painful. Anyone here could have done a better job at that than our goaltender yesterday.

I don't like this situation because Henderson looks like the real deal. De Gea IS the real deal, until a fateful moment when he's not. It's especially frustrating because a De Gea who shows up for work, is always among the best 3 goaltenders in the world on any given day. Period.

 

[ottosec]

No. Henderson has a lot to prove until he can be considered at DDGs level. But I suppose a new toy si a new toy.

DDG needs to get his shit together, though.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Sources have told ESPN that Chelsea and Paris Saint-Germain are interested in signing Henderson this summer.

If there’s any truth in it, maybe bad news for us. Surely Hendersen may want to go elsewhere if we couldn’t guarantee him first team football next season.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

If there’s any truth in it, maybe bad news for us. Surely Hendersen may want to go elsewhere if we couldn’t guarantee him first team football next season.

He’s on contract but if they want to pay 60 million, I think we should take it

 

[Skills]

1. Not sure what you mean by that (I said multiple times that we purged whole title winning squad which means we lost players in every position) . I just gave you numbers, you came up with how we have lost attackers and replaced them with other attackers, so we have to go by net spend. I said we have lost defenders too just like we lost attackers. We got good money for selling attackers but got feck all for selling defenders. We don't run 3 accounts where we invest money made by selling attackers only on attackers. We have signed good number of attackers, that's the point. Whenever we have lost attacker, we replaced them except this season.

We signed Di Maria when he didn't work out we signed Depay and Martial.
When Depay didn't work out we had already signed Mkhitaryan and promoted Rashford.
When Mkhi didnt work out we swapped him with Sanchez.
When Zlatan was injured we signed Lukaku.

So it's not as if we ignored attack, we replaced players when they moved on just like in any other position. Ignoring attack means what we did this summer when we sold Lukaku and didn't replace him.

2. I went with transfermarkt numbers, both were valued at 35 million. You are also considering only transfer money as investment. How much did we invest to sign Sanchez? That should beat AWB transfer even though Sanchez is a free transfer. We signed Falcao on loan and Zlatan on free transfer but the investment made on them is more than on James who was signed for 16 million.

3. Again not sure why you want net investment. We don't have 3 accounts. We lose attacker, we replace them with one. We lost DI Maria and signed Martial. So we didn't ignore the position, these players left for one or the other reason. Far from ignoring it (just to make myself clear except this summer).

Struggling to score goals doesn't mean attack is ignored, it means we signed poor coaches and set up is poor to score more goals.

You said :

We have spent close to 450 million pounds on attackers and around 58% on defense.

I just pointed out that's disingenuous because a lot of that money was us selling attackers and reinvesting the money back into the team.

You then decided to take this down a different tangent with :

Then we have to consider the other aspects too like Valencia retiring, Young being old. Shaw breaking his leg and being very injury prone, Bailly not able to stay fit for more than 2 games, same with Rojo and Jones.

And I just pointed out these issues aren't exclusive to the defense because the attack has had similar issues.

You then shifted the arguement once more with the defence losing Fergie year players.

We also lost Vidic, Evra, Rio Ferdinand, Rafael, Fabio, Evans

And once again this is not exclusive to the defence, the attack has had similar issues which has left us massively short.

Anyways countering your 3rd point, the way we've treated our RW for the last X number of years I would definitely call that neglect. And of course the budget isn't split into attack, midfield and defence but last summer we sold an £75m striker and bought two very expensive defenders which has also left us short in attack.

 

[Phil Osophy]

I'm one of the biggest critics of De Gea on this place, but I don't think he's been too bad lately compared to the horror show of last season. My main doubts about him at the moment are about his potential to adapt to different tactical demands, especially a higher defensive line.

We've seen with Ole the team playing higher than we did before, and with the next manager whenever he comes we'll keep doing the same as Jose's jurassic tactics are extinct these days. Having a keeper that leaves the back of his defence unprotected is a permanent risk, and a negative influence on the way our defenders play their game. Because they're aware of the danger and they have to calculate much more his decisions.

The first piece to sustain the system is a keeper who can control that zone, and I think De Gea is way too timid in many aspects of his game. Then we've got Henderson who's playing nicely for a conservative team, showing more bravery in aerial duels, divided balls, but he isn't tested on United standards so it's not a sure bet either.

The way I see it we should have both next season and let them have an honest fight. And we'd see who manages the pressure of having competence better, and any mistake being punished. We could see who adapts better to those tactical demands, playing it from the back too, and so on.

I have faith on Deano to become our number 1 in the future, but leaving him alone next season with Romero could be a bit premature. I'm not fully against it because as I said, I'm not a big fan of De Gea and I don't expect the man suddenly to reinvent himself as a keeper at this point. But even if we want to get Henderson in the goal it would be better to have a safe transition and do things step by step.

 

[Offside]

Would be so reckless to do this. Changing your goalkeeper is massive and Henderson has had one year in the Premier League.

 

[kafta]

In our current state, we have many gaps to fill in the squad, and spending on a keeper shouldn't be a priority.

I say spending as we cannot really rely on Henderson yet (in my opinion). If we're replacing De Gea, we should aim for a stand-out world class keeper (Oblak or similar).

I would trust De Gea for one more season, but he does need to look at himself as its been over a year now where he's made the odd mistake that has cost us points.

 

[Infra-red]

There is a 0% chance of this happening. We cannot move De Gea on - the time to do that has now passed.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

De Gea is still capable of making world class saves but the problem is every other aspect of his game is incredibly poor.

Command of area is non-exist. Claiming of crosses is hopeless. Ability with the ball at his feet is below average.

I think the big issue is, if DDG were on £120K per week I’d say give him one more season and get Henderson out on loan again. The fact Dave is on £350K+ and his net contribution is negative isn’t good enough

All true plus he's now making terrible errors pretty regularly. He was fantastic for many years but the last 18 months or so he's been average at best and a total liability at worst.

I think a major part of why we concede so many goals from set pieces is how reluctant De Gea is to come off his line. Maguire had to be phenomenal yesterday for us to not concede from a set piece because he was getting zero help from Lindelof or De Gea.

 

[roonster09]

You said :



I just pointed out that's disingenuous because a lot of that money was us selling attackers and reinvesting the money back into the team.

You then decided to take this down a different tangent with :



And I just pointed out these issues aren't exclusive to the defense because the attack has had similar issues.

You then shifted the arguement once more with the defence losing Fergie year players.



And once again this is not exclusive to the defence, the attack has had similar issues which has left us massively short.

Anyways countering your 3rd point, the way we've treated our RW for the last X number of years I would definitely call that neglect. And of course the budget isn't split into attack, midfield and defence but last summer we sold an £75m striker and bought two very expensive defenders which has also left us short in attack.

It's not different tangent. It's counter to your post saying we lost attackers and replaced attackers when same thing happened to defenders too, only difference is we got good money for attackers but didn't get anything for defenders or failed to shift the defenders. You are trying to create 3 different accounts to calculate net spend when the point was about replacing and adding attackers. We have replaced what we have lost.

We signed Mkhitaryan to address RW position and before that Mata. We just made a shit job at it. We took many years to sign proper RB too, same with LB.

The number of incoming and outgoing is poor for the rebuild we need, when thats the case we can't keep on signing attackers, we have to invest in other areas too.

Re last point, I already said we did neglect or did shit job last summer by not replacing Lukaku. It was years before last summer. We signed many attackers and almost every season for big money.

You then shifted the arguement once more with the defence losing Fergie year players.

We also lost Vidic, Evra, Rio Ferdinand, Rafael, Fabio, Evans

This is what I said, you just cherry pick points and remove context from the post.
That post was in reply to your point

Then you can also consider aspects such as Rooney getting old, Nani/Zaha being driven out of the club, Zlatan's injury/leaving etc.

This is all part of to and fro exchange, now you are removing your posts and trying to change the point of the post. If we remove Rooney, Zaha then why not consider Vidic, Evra, Rio, Rafael, Fabio, Evans whom we lost post SAF.

Again in the end, we purged the whole squad which means we needed investment in all areas, something you keep on ignoring. We signed many attackers and replaced them when they left, likewise we signed defenders and replaced them as needed.

 

[The Brown Bull]

When the dip in form carries on for more than a year than one has to talk about it.

What's this "oh he was so good in the past let's persist with him" mentality? He was great, yes but he single handedly cost us top 4 last season and crucial points this season. I mean why not bring Rooney back because he was so good for us in the past if we go by your logic?

He's a keeper and his best years are ahead of him. Clearly not the case with Rooney.

 

[VorZakone]

Don't underestimate the pressure difference between starting for Utd and Sheffield though.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Mate, there's no need to exaggerat and rewrite history in order to state your case.

There's a reason as to why DDG was considered top3 if not the best GK in the world for years.

Saves he made I only saw from Neuer and Oblak.

not any more.

I don’t think it would do any harm to give Romero a run, if only to shake Dave from his apparent complacency. it’s alright pointing out occasional worldie saves, all keepers make them. All keepers also come off their line and show some authority, at least in the 6 yard box. In the 63rd minute, a cross came over, not 2 yards from him and he stood rooted to his fecking line. One of the surprises was that they didn’t score from umpteen corners and crosses - they would on another day. His many and frequent weaknesses and errors more than cancel out the odd world class save. Even bottom of the pile (see above post) Pickford made one, some would say two. I don’t think we’ll ever have a solid defence because the defence cannot have any confidence in a keeper that doesn’t rule his 6 yard box. No wonder they look jittery. Lindelof and others cop it for the occasional weak challenge that they shouldn’t have to make, yet Dave gets away with not making a challenge at all. That was pure sloppiness and carelessness last night. Give him a break - at least.

Another season, maybe for Hendo on loan but even then, nothing guaranteed, so I don’t really see why he shouldn’t come back whilst on the crest of a wave and confidence high. How many has he thrown in apart from the Liverpool one? 50m for Dave would be useful.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

We're going to be in a pickle this summer because Henderson seems to have the arrogance (not meaning this as an insult) to demand a permanent move unless he's guaranteed a starting spot. Especially because he'll view DDG as having cost us a fair few games, as backing his cause. I can see us selling him in the summer, whether we regret that, who knows.

 

[jderbyshire]

There is a 0% chance of this happening. We cannot move De Gea on - the time to do that has now passed.

Absolutely this.

He's just signed a new 6-year deal, making him one of the highest-paid players in the world.

There's no way he's leaving us any time soon.

We have to remember Henderson is, in goalkeeper terms, still just a kid. He'll be on loan again next season or our no.2.

He will have signed that new deal last Summer (extension till 2022) with some sort of plan in place.

 

[Denis' cuff]

We're going to be in a pickle this summer because Henderson seems to have the arrogance (not meaning this as an insult) to demand a permanent move unless he's guaranteed a starting spot. Especially because he'll view DDG as having cost us a fair few games, as backing his cause. I can see us selling him in the summer, whether we regret that, who knows.

hmmm, there is that.

Just don’t think the net gains we get from Dave are really all that, any more.

 

[Lentwood]

All true plus he's now making terrible errors pretty regularly. He was fantastic for many years but the last 18 months or so he's been average at best and a total liability at worst.

I think a major part of why we concede so many goals from set pieces is how reluctant De Gea is to come off his line. Maguire had to be phenomenal yesterday for us to not concede from a set piece because he was getting zero help from Lindelof or De Gea.

100% agree with the last part. If you take yesterday's game as a prime example, Maguire had to head several corners away from inside his own 6-yard box. Teams have worked out that DDG won't come for anything so they can drop a corner right into the mixer and throw all the big lads at it.

It's totally ridiculous to expect CBs to have to defend this way. Inevitably they can't be heroic every single time and we will continue to concede goals. The one corner DDG did come for, he crumpled to the floor under zero pressure and was very lucky to get a foul

 

[11101]

Save percentage in the CL:

De Gea for United 72%
Courtois 73%
Ter Stegen 77%
Oblak 80%
Neuer 73%
Navas 76%
Szczesny 71%

Save percentage in the PL this season:

De Gea 69%
Henderson 75%
Allison 80%
Guaita 74%
Schmeichel 73%
Dubravka 72.5%
Leno 72%
Ramsdale 68%
Ryan 68%
Patricio 67%
Pope 67%
Gazzaniga 67%
Ederson 66%
Krul 66%
McCarthy 66%
Heaton 65%
Fabianski 65%
Foster 64%
Pickford 61%
Kepa 54%

Saves have never been his problem though and still aren't really, although those figures do back up the observation that he's slightly off his best.

It is his lack of distribution and even moreso his lack of command/communication that is the problem. He seems to be regressing there.