Decades Draft Tournament : Cutch vs Theon

Who will win based on all the players at their peak?


  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
The aim of this poll is to decide which team will win based on all the players at their peak.


Cutch's tactics
Formation/Selection
A very fluid and cohesive 4-3-3. Lionel Messi in his favoured 'false no.9' role

Lothar Matthaus comes into the side alongside his german colleague Paul Breitner who has his old mate from their ‘FC Breitnigge’ days Karl Heinz Rummenigge now on the left in close attendance. The newly acquired Georgie Best is on the right wing to target Theons defensive weak link Roberto Carlos.


Defending
My back 4 will play relatively deep when without the ball, to defend against Theons skilful attackers. I have 2 phenomenal all-round box to box midfielders in Breitner and Matthaus who will drop infront of the defence to form a compact backline when Theons side is attacking. Nesta, Ayala and Matthaus will use their exceptional reading of the game to hopefully thwart the majority of Theons attacks. In Nesta and Maldini I have the 2 finest exponents of defending in recent memory. The defending will be disciplined and staying on the feet. With the exception of Roberto Carlos the preference would be generally to allow Theons side to shoot from range and prioritising ensuring off the ball runners are tracked. On the wings the fullbacks will generally show the wingers on the outside. When C Alberto or R Carlos attack, Rummenigge or Iniesta will help out.

Attacking fullbacks.
Wim Suurbier (Right back of the great Holland and Ajax side of the 70s) and Paulo Maldini are superb athletes who can get up and down the pitch all game. They will look to get forward when they can in this game and test the willingness of Ronaldinho and Jairzinho in tracking back. It won’t be a massive feature of this game given their defensive responsibility but it would be foolish not to take advantage of their incredible engines and the number advantage it would mean going forward.

Midfield battle
Matthaus and Breitner form a robust pairing in midfield and are supplemented by the creative and probing Iniesta just infront.
Matthaus, the man Maradona described as the toughest he’d ever faced is again assigned to do a job on him. Both he and Breitner will look to show their athleticism and power in both boxes and both have a rocket of a shot on them that they’ll look to unleash when they can. Iniesta and Messi infront will pull their markers around the pitch to create the space for the 2 to run into.
Xavi will look to orchestrate things for Theons side and get the ball to Maradona and so he will be heavily pressed throughout by Breitner who will be over him like a rash. Xavi’s influence will be significantly reduced surely by having Iniesta and Messi on the opposition in this game.
Jean Tigana could be extremely overworked in this game, with a very big defensive responsibility pinned on his shoulders.
The hope would be that my midfield with the strong running of Matthaus and Breitner is just too powerful for Theons. Theons side would usually expect to have the bulk of the possession but it certainly won't be the case in this game, pretty much 50:50 i'd expect.

Roaming attackers
I’ve got an extremely fluid and skilful attackline with players who will look to run with the ball and beat players when they can. This side will be extremely dangerous in the area between Theons defence and midfield with Messi and Iniesta often linking up in this area and looking for the off the ball runs of Rummenigge and Best who will be looking to catch the opposition fullbacks napping. As we’ve seen countless times there could be a situation seemingly totally under control, and then a simple give and go 1-2 between Iniesta and Messi and suddenly a defenders out of the game and Lionels heading towards goal. Baresi will look to marshal for Theons side but there'll be less emphasis on defending in this team than the watertight Milan and Italy ones he's used to playing in.

Best v R Carlos
This has the potential to be the biggest mismatch on the pitch. When Best gets the ball on the right he will be looking to tear the defensively suspect Roberto Carlos a new one at every opportunity, and when this occurs or when Messi drops deep this will pull Baresi or Passarella out of position. As good as Theons defence is on paper, its impossible to keep both Best and Messi quiet all game, and with the resources assigned in dealing with the 2 of them, and the slippyness of Iniesta, there should be potential for creating lots of scoring opportunities.


Familiarity
My side is made up of some of the most famous and proven football pairings.
Gregg and Best – Northern Ireland and Man Utd
Maldini and Nesta – Italy and AC Milan
Breitner and Rummenigge – Germany and Bayern Munich
Iniesta and Messi – Barcelona

In addition Ayala-Messi and Mattheus-Breitner to a lesser extent at International level.


Having these players alongside eachother in tandem can’t be understated and should ensure they get the best out of eachother. If this game was heading for a stalemate I’d be confident of ‘Breitnigge’ or Iniesta-Messi conjuring up a moment of magic.

TEAM Cutch
TEAM Theon


Theon's tactics
FORMATION
A devastating 4-2-3-1 formation filled with complimentary partnerships and the perfect blend of width, creativity and ruthless finishing.

Very similar to the set up in the last game except the defence has been significantly improved with the addition of Franco Baresi and Carlos Alberto

Defence
The heart of the defence is marshalled by two of the greatest centre backs of all time Franco Baresi and the great Argentine Daniel Passarella. Both are amongst the Top 5 ever centre backs and combine to form an impenetrable shield in front of Gordon Banks.

Two technically gifted footballers capable of taking control of the ball and instigating attacks from deep, which will help dominate possession against Cutch’s side. Along with this technical mastery Passarella brings a ferocious leap and a ruthless mentality to the defence, as well as an unbelievable scoring record of just under 1 in 3. His partner Baresi is simply the best of all time and between the two of them there is simply no better defense to limit the influence of Messi.

A partnership of Brazilian fullbacks round off the defence and offer a huge threat going forward. As Antohan called him “A Cafú with better defending” Carlos Alberto is arguably the greatest right back ever and the Captain of 1970 Brazil who remain the best football team in the history of the game.

On the other side Roberto Carlos will bomb forward in support of Ronaldinho to create a devastating 2 vs 1 against Suurbier who is the weakest defender on the pitch, whilst having the electric pace to combat even the best wingers. This is the exact role that Carlos perfected at Real Madrid which led him to numerous awards including twice being named UEFA Defender of the Year and coming second to Ronaldo in the FIFA World Player of the Year in 1997 and runner up in the 2002 Ballon D’Or.

Midfield
In midfield Xavi and Tigana will look to sit deep and keep it tight in front of the defence. Xavi will look utilise his exceptional passing range by spraying the ball around the pitch and through gaps into the feet of Maradona.

Tigana is the greatest French central midfielder of all time and brings a monstrous defensive work-ethic to toughen up the midfield whilst possessing the technical ability to fit the exquisite passing style of his team mates.

Maradona
The heart of the team - Diego Maradona has the freedom of the pitch ahead of the two centre mids in a system designed to get the best out of him. With the wingers stretching the pitch horizontally and the electric pace of Ronaldo pushing the defence back vertically, the pitch is at its absolute biggest giving Maradona the perfect platform to dominate this game.

Enrique - Maradona's team-mate at World Cup 1986 - "Diego was an example to everyone, not just in terms of his quality, but also for his commitment. He was the first to tackle and dive in when we lost possession, so how could we not do the same? He was contagious. When it came to his play, however, trying to imitate him was impossible."

Tenacious, determined and extraordinarily talented this is the perfect summary of Maradona and what he brings to the side. Whether it is with a pass, a dribble, a tackle or a goal Diego has the ability and mentality to raise a team like no player in the history of the game

Attack
The genius of Maradona is complimented with Brazilian flair, as two devastating wingers flank the greatest striker in football history.

Jairzinho and Ronaldinho bring pace, trickery and goals to either flank, with both capable either cutting inside or stretching the pitch out wide. Both can create chances but also possess a huge goal threat themselves, with Jairzinho scoring in every game in the 1970 World Cup including the final, and Ronaldinho scoring or assisting 157 goals in 181 appearances for Barcelona.

The attack is rounded off with Ronaldo who reached a level brilliance only matched by Pele, Maradona and Messi. He possesses an unrivalled combination of pace, skill and dribbling ability which simply guarantees goals – particularly with this service.

Ronaldo at the peak of his powers in the 1997 season – 47 goals in 49 game

 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
This takes me back to my game somehow. Cutch has loads of partnerships which all played their best football in diferent setup. I'm not seeing cohesion but isolated brilliant linkups.

On the other hand, Theon has sexual pairs on either flank in Carlos Alberto-Jairzinho and Roberto Carlos-Ronaldinho, a rock solid core in Banks-Baresi-Passarella and the genius that is Maradona behind the best striker I've seen.

Theon's midfield is not as strong, sure, but will hold their own well enough to limit Cutch to isolated long range efforts and Best tormenting Bobby Carlos. I fancy him and Ronaldinho to give Suurbier a much harder time though and Maradona-Ronaldo will get more joy than Iniesta-Messi against the respective core threes.

Easy decision really.

Theon 3 - Cutch 1, maybe 2 at a push
 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,341
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
Well done to both managers for pulling together two fantastic XIs.

The major mismatches for me are:
  • Best against Carlos. Probably the most problematic on the pitch.
  • Ronaldinho and Ronaldo against Suurbier and Ayala. Both Brazilians have the skillsets to exploit the weaknesses of that pair.
  • The capacity of either Breitner or Matthaus to power forward past Xavi and Tigana into (for them at least) goalscoring positions.
The way I see it playing out would be Theon having the greater share of the ball and one or two goals coming out of Ronaldo outstripping Ayala or Ronaldinho dropping one in from the edge of the area. At the same I can see Cutch counter-attacking brilliantly, his front six make a compelling case to creating all sorts of problems on the break. Best should engineer a goal, possibly two, while I can see Matthaus or Breitner bursting through for one.

Therefore, leaning towards Cutch at the moment, but it's tight and I'll sit it out for the time being.
 

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
Leaning towards Cutch a bit but I am not going to vote in this as I am facing the winner. Best against Carlos is very dangerous with Messi drifting on that side and rip it apart. That's just a huge bundle of goals.

While Maradona and Ronaldo is great, Matthaus can do as good a job as I can think of on him which can limit his game to an extent.

A goalfest but I think Cutch has got a better chance of outscoring.
 

Cutch

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
16,404
Location
Northern Ireland. Stretty W3102, Row 2, Seat 129
Cracking video on Lothar Matthaus in Italia 90 who i suspect might be a bit underrated on here. I know i didn't realise how good he was until i started watching more football back from the past in last couple of years. My main memory of him was 99 when he was probably a bit of a spent force playin sweeper for Bayern. Beast of a player in his prime. Look at the running power, 1:40 is ridiculous.

 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
I'll try and throw a few videos up before i hit the bed here just to keep things movin, and to reminisce at the talent on display for both teams
Where are the Ronaldinho, Jairzinho, Maradona and Ronaldo videos Cutch? ;)
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
Best against Carlos is very dangerous with Messi drifting on that side and rip it apart.
I'd rather have Carlos facing Best and covered by Passarella than Suurbier facing Ronnie and Carlos with Ayala as cover. Better fullback and better covering defender against an equivalent threat at best.

I've been very critical of how Passarella was used before, both by Theon and NM in the previous draft, but I can't think of many better suited to be doing that left CB role here.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
You should really spoiler those videos (same goes for Theon when he comes and dumps his). The loading time on this page is very annoying!

(or is it the caf?, or my laptop?).
 

Cutch

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
16,404
Location
Northern Ireland. Stretty W3102, Row 2, Seat 129
Gonna really struggle to be on here tomorrow due to lack of reception from afternoon onwards. Gio's basically nailed it as far as i'm concerned but at the end of the day its really just personal preference. I'm not gonna waste my time trying to pick holes in Theons side as its quality is there for all to see. You can all make up your own minds how this game will go, but i've tried to cover everything in my OP for how i think i have the slight edge in this game. I think i've got the power in midfield, and the trickery, off the ball movement and finishing ability up top.
 

Cutch

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
16,404
Location
Northern Ireland. Stretty W3102, Row 2, Seat 129
I'd rather have Carlos facing Best and covered by Passarella than Suurbier facing Ronnie and Carlos with Ayala as cover. Better fullback and better covering defender against an equivalent threat at best.

I've been very critical of how Passarella was used before, both by Theon and NM in the previous draft, but I can't think of many better suited to be doing that left CB role here.

Why are you ignoring my fullback attackin?

Suurbier will be a notable threat on any occasions where he ventures forward, presumably unopposed. Seems strange you'd suggest my fullback will have 2 v 1 on him whereas Theons won't, especially when i've covered in the OP how it will be defended.
 

Cutch

Full Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
16,404
Location
Northern Ireland. Stretty W3102, Row 2, Seat 129
I think with my back 4, Breitner and Matthaus forming a compact 6 behind the ball and Iniesta or Rummenigge covering the opposition fullback when he attacks that i'm well equipped to deal with any threat going forward. I know from Theons writeup that he has Xavi in a deeper position but he's not going to get anywhere near the level out of defending out of him than i will from Breitner and Matthaus. I also don't anticipate the likes of Ronaldinho/Maradona/Jairzinho doing much defending.

With my front 4, the 2 box to box midfielders, and attacking fullbacks i think there'll be quite an attacking force to withstand. Whether Theon has enough players up to the task of stopping all that i'm not certain.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
Why are you ignoring my fullback attackin?
I'm not, which is why I made no mention of a 2v1 (I said equivalent threat at best, didn't I?). I just don't rate Suurbier at all so don't even think he is worth mentioning as a threat, whereas Carlos was pretty fecking good and won a World Cup playing with the same chap who is further ahead of him!

Suurbier will be a notable threat on any occasions where he ventures forward, presumably unopposed. Seems strange you'd suggest my fullback will have 2 v 1 on him whereas Theons won't, especially when i've covered in the OP how it will be defended.
Iniesta tracking Roberto Carlos... I don't see that TBH. I don't see how you can have both an avoidance of 2v1 on Suurbier and a brilliant counter through your Barca combo with Iniesta stuck at the corner flag. It's one or the other really.

Fact is defensively speaking Best should be on the left. You've chosen to have him on the right to exploit Bobby being the weaker fullback, the downside is Suurbier gets raped too. Can't have your cake and eat it.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,434
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
wow, this is tough.

Between Maldini & Nesta, they have locked down that area for good even for one as Jairzinho and Alberto. I think Matthaus can keep Maradona quiet most of the game. Forget Carlos attacking. he will be hard pressed to contain Best and might need Passarella to step in at times.

The key decider will be on how well Suurbier/Ayala perform against Ronaldo & Ronaldinho (esp with Mattahus absent containing Maradona) and this is where Theon will win the match.
 

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
I'd rather have Carlos facing Best and covered by Passarella than Suurbier facing Ronnie and Carlos with Ayala as cover. Better fullback and better covering defender against an equivalent threat at best.

I've been very critical of how Passarella was used before, both by Theon and NM in the previous draft, but I can't think of many better suited to be doing that left CB role here.
Oh Carlos up the pitch is the exact scenario which will be suicide for Theon and it is inevitable. There'll be plenty of times the ball will be won with him committed in attack and it will be piss easy to find Bestie open, and that's it really. Passarella comes out to cover, Messi's in space. It would effectively be a 2v2 with Best and Messi against Baresi and Passarella and that will surely go in Cutch's favour.

Not denying Suurbier will not be a deadman against Dinho and Carlos just that it leaves Theon way open against Best and the last thing you need while defending against Messi with Andres in close attention to construct 1-2s and all is let your defense lose shape.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
In before anto calls me being biased for Iniesta :D
:lol: This is how easily Maradona orchestrates a win despite having Matthaus all over him:


Disappointing turnout so far, can't see either team doing any reshuffling.
 

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
Yeah well aware of that game, there is no one who can stop a Maradona at his prime, but Lothar will make it as difficult as possible and I imagine Cutch's defense wouldn't be that open as Germany's was to let Burruchaga through on goal. But yea he'll be running the show obviously just to a lesser degree than usual.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
Yeah well aware of that game, there is no one who can stop a Maradona at his prime, but Lothar will make it as difficult as possible and I imagine Cutch's defense wouldn't be that open as Germany's was to let Burruchaga through on goal. But yea he'll be running the show obviously just to a lesser degree than usual.
Nah, to the same degree he did in that game, with Jairzinho and Carlos Alberto storming up one wing and Carlos and Ronnie down the other, Ronaldo through the middle... So many :drool: options.

Maldini-Nesta will be as solid as they come but, assuming they are handling Jairzinho, Carlos Alberto AND Ronaldo (that's quite a job, I'd argue harder than your worst case 1v1 scenario of Passarella vs. Best and Baresi vs. Messi), there's nothing they can do about Suurbier and Ayala getting shat on for 90 minutes by Carlos and Ronnie.
 

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
It would be easier IMO as Cutch's defense will never lose shape largely because of the tactically brilliant Maldini in there, in fact he'd be there to make it as tight as possible. The issue with Carlos being forward most times is Theon's defense would be stretched and there will be a lot more space to use, cannot imagine that much space being there on the other side at any point in the game. Cutch also has a lot better protection from midfield. Ayala's underrated in here, won't argue that much but always found that weird. His strength that is exceptional reading of the game can be vital in intercepting Dinho's through balls.

That is how I see it. Cutch has the luxury of defending as a unit hence a mistake by Suurbier could go unpunished while on the other side there'll be plenty of 1v1 and a lot will go in Cutch's favour as he has 3 immense dribblers in there. I also see more fluidity there with the front 3 interchanging a lot hence not allowing Baresi to command the game for a long time due to the unpredictable nature of those 3. Messi can easily drop deep and play passes for Best and Kalle without much trouble.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
You are exaggerating how much Carlos will be upfront. I dunno where Gio got the idea Theon would have the most possession, I don't think that's the case. Most of the time he is soaking pressure and Carlos will storm forward in quick counters.

Question is whether he can get back, and I reckon he can as Cutch has no one at the back (bar Maldini on the opposite flank) who could quickly unleash Best. Passarella should intercept most if not all of those balls anyway, it's not like Ayala tackles Dinho and the ball magically appears at Best's feet in the blink of an eye. It won't.
 

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
Best usually came deep to collect the ball so you don't need a long range sniper to find him plus Matthaus can carry the transition well, his passing was excellent.

How useful would Xavi be in a team playing on the counter?
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
Best usually came deep to collect the ball so you don't need a long range sniper to find him plus Matthaus can carry the transition well, his passing was excellent.
If he is coming deep then Carlos isn't as miles away as you would think, and Xavi could help Carlos have enough time to catch up before it's even a 1v1 with Passarella. I can't see how a move will break down, an average passer will find Best receiving deep, Xavi will do nothing, Passarella will do nothing and Best will just run for goal unchallenged. Fact is Bobby will have time to get back. If he weren't capable of doing that he wouldn't have had the career he did.

BTW, I meant at the back. Matthaus passing is fine, but I thought he was stuck to Maradona like a rash. So the plan is that when defenders recover the ball they quickly pass it to Matthaus? A slightly misplaced pass and you could have your worst nightmare: passing the ball back to Maradona. I can see the transition (Breitner will be a fine option too), but I can't see it being particularly quick.

How useful would Xavi be in a team playing on the counter?
I've said it all along, tiki taka Xavi should only be played in sides set up appropriately and this is not a tiki taka side by any stretch of the imagination. I don't see Theon having that Xavi but the earlier more adventurous passer who didn't really play possession football.
 

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
Exactly, the Xavi that dominated games at will and ran the show wouldn't be there IF he is playing on the counter. He's better off being on the front foot IMO.

As for the Carlos, I know he's quick but it's Best and he's off in a flash after getting the ball, you are looking at a tackle from behind at best from Carlos. Passarella will need to cover 9/10 times which takes the shape of the defense to the cleaners. Messi is in dreamland.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
Exactly, the Xavi that dominated games at will and ran the show wouldn't be there IF he is playing on the counter. He's better off being on the front foot IMO.
It's not just his choice to be on the front foot or not though. The rest of the personnel are not suited to possession football and there's no chance you would pull it off against that midfield anyway.

As for the Carlos, I know he's quick but it's Best and he's off in a flash after getting the ball, you are looking at a tackle from behind at best from Carlos. Passarella will need to cover 9/10 times which takes the shape of the defense to the cleaners. Messi is in dreamland.
Enough time allowed there for Carlos to catch up. He is only what, 30m away when the move breaks down? I don't expect Xavi to cover the flank or anything of the sort, but the basic job of not letting a dangerous winger receive unattended in a deep position 10 yards away from him? It's not 9/10 times, more like 1/5.
 

Thisistheone

Full Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
7,904
I see Aldo really wants to play Cutch in the final then. :D

Carlos isn't just going to be stood past the halfway line all game. He's in a defence with Pass & Baresi, a better organizer than Maldini. Carlos will only venture forward when the time is right.
 

Theon

Lord of the Iron Islands
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
13,289
Was out last night and just seen this!

Give me a few minutes to catch up
 

Theon

Lord of the Iron Islands
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
13,289
Before talking about my team I have to say Cutch has a great side so I'm got going to try and argue too much against it, as there has been too much of that in a lot of these games and it just kills any good discussion which should be about the great players on display.