Declan Rice

[Raveneye]

I can't believe you actually ask that question.

And beside, using your logic, you just said in your previous post that they have different approach in their game. Rice's current ability as midfielder would evolve in next level if he can improve his positioning, passing and playmaking ability which Carrick is much better in those aspect than Matic.

I dont necessarily agree with him in the discussion (having experienced players around can only be a good thing), but yes, Carrick over Matic any day of the week.

Carrick, in my opinion, was a much more intelligent player in terms of positioning. He was also a lot better passer.

I mean, Matic is 32. No way would Carrick be backup to McTominay and Fred at 32.

Matic's legs certainly have gone earlier than some other top footballers. Not sure longevity would be something either player would teach significantly differently since they both seem to have taken care of themselves properly.

Carrick was such a quietly-amazing passer. His positioning was world class as a DM, but I'm not sure Matic was definitely way behind in this regard. Matic's ability to calm down a field and nip danger in the bud is particularly impressive considering he played in front of much inferior defenses to Carrick.

...Then again, Carrick was only ever sent off once in his entire career.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I dont necessarily agree with him in the discussion (having experienced players around can only be a good thing), but yes, Carrick over Matic any day of the week.

Carrick, in my opinion, was a much more intelligent player in terms of positioning. He was also a lot better passer.

I mean, Matic is 32. No way would Carrick be backup to McTominay and Fred at 32.

I'm a massive fan of Carrick - he's one of my favourite players. However, I wouldn't be so sure about the comment I have put in bold, simply because of the profile of player Ole likes in the midfield. In Fred and McTominay, they both have energy. Because of this, it provides a foil for our front four to attack.

Carrick, whilst a phenomenal passer and reader of the game, did lack dynamism, especially at 32.

Let's not forget, Ole did opt for Matic and Pogba quite often in the early stages of the season, especially against teams that play with a low block. The reason I can imagine he changed it was because we lacked legs. Since then, he's kind of stuck with McTominay and Fred, with Pogba partnering them on some occasions.

I think if we get Rice, he'll be able to give us that energy and drive - similar to what a younger Matic would, but I think we'll still lack that midfield controller in the mould of Verratti, De Jong, Kroos, etc.

 

[theklr]

Out of all the transfers including a potential LCB, potential ST or Sancho in the summer- Rice is really starting to excite me the most.

The way he plays the game can be so simple that I can understand why some feel like he doesn't do anything to worth the transfer fee he may cost - yet that simplicity maybe sometimes hard to find and bring in to the middle of a pitch like we see players like Fernandinho do for Manchester city.

Rice plays like a combination of 2 players ( and im not saying that to put down McFred who I enjoy watching), he kind of knows how to defend the middle of the pitch by staying in a certain area of the pitch which is not an easy type of player to find these days compared to the numerous players you see that leave their
cdm position to press at different areas of the pitch.

Whether Rice is the CDM we go for or not, having one of a similar style should be what gives our defence an extra layer of protection even when we get a new defender whilst also being the protection that gives our attackers the freedom to concentrate on purely penetrating the opposition for 90 mins.

It should give us the ability to play us different formations or tactics a bit more too - 433, 442 diamond, 352, 4231 with more attacking box to box abilities etc,

This is a very good description. While Fred have somewhat similar , or in some cases better, defensive stats, I feel Rice has a calm and directness to him that will help balance our mid.

 

[andersj]

His positioning was world class as a DM, but I'm not sure Matic was definitely way behind in this regard. Matic's ability to calm down a field and nip danger in the bud is particularly impressive considering he played in front of much inferior defenses to Carrick.

I think he is awful and this regard. Unlike Carrick it became very evident as soon he «lost his legs». It is not a coincidence that he started most of the games we really struggeled defensively (opening game against Brighton, first half in the 1-6 against Spurs, 2-3 against SU and Southampton, 3-2 against Leipzig). I cant ever imagine Carrick lacking the type of awareness that Matic did against Istanbul (he was poor that game too!).

He is not exactly replacing Roy Keane either.

 

[andersj]

However, I wouldn't be so sure about the comment I have put in bold, simply because of the profile of player Ole likes in the midfield. In Fred and McTominay, they both have energy.

What is OGS most used midfielder?

I will save you the time. The answer is Daniel Berg Hestad. He was 35 years old in his first season playing for OGS. Only two years younger than OGS. He was never a player with much pace or energy, and certainly not at 35. But he had several other qualities.

Energy is always a plus, but that it is a priority for OGS over all other attributes is a bit of a myth in here. In fact, OGS is very pragmatic.

 

[Raveneye]

I'm a massive fan of Carrick - he's one of my favourite players. However, I wouldn't be so sure about the comment I have put in bold, simply because of the profile of player Ole likes in the midfield. In Fred and McTominay, they both have energy. Because of this, it provides a foil for our front four to attack.

Carrick, whilst a phenomenal passer and reader of the game, did lack dynamism, especially at 32.

Let's not forget, Ole did opt for Matic and Pogba quite often in the early stages of the season, especially against teams that play with a low block. The reason I can imagine he changed it was because we lacked legs. Since then, he's kind of stuck with McTominay and Fred, with Pogba partnering them on some occasions.

I think if we get Rice, he'll be able to give us that energy and drive - similar to what a younger Matic would, but I think we'll still lack that midfield controller in the mould of Verratti, De Jong, Kroos, etc.

I'm a massive fan of Carrick - he's one of my favourite players. However, I wouldn't be so sure about the comment I have put in bold, simply because of the profile of player Ole likes in the midfield. In Fred and McTominay, they both have energy. Because of this, it provides a foil for our front four to attack.

Carrick, whilst a phenomenal passer and reader of the game, did lack dynamism, especially at 32.

Let's not forget, Ole did opt for Matic and Pogba quite often in the early stages of the season, especially against teams that play with a low block. The reason I can imagine he changed it was because we lacked legs. Since then, he's kind of stuck with McTominay and Fred, with Pogba partnering them on some occasions.

I think if we get Rice, he'll be able to give us that energy and drive - similar to what a younger Matic would, but I think we'll still lack that midfield controller in the mould of Verratti, De Jong, Kroos, etc.

Fiar points.

Ole's preferred style overall doesn't require a Pirlo, I think. He likes players on the ball to have the confidence to try difficult passes and accept the possibility of turnover. instead of having good footballers in order to keep the ball, Ole wants good footballers to prioritize being dangerous. When it works, it's free flowing, incisive and unpredictable attacking football. But it does mean that we'll never be a very possession-oriented team.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Matic's legs certainly have gone earlier than some other top footballers. Not sure longevity would be something either player would teach significantly differently since they both seem to have taken care of themselves properly.

Carrick was such a quietly-amazing passer. His positioning was world class as a DM, but I'm not sure Matic was definitely way behind in this regard. Matic's ability to calm down a field and nip danger in the bud is particularly impressive considering he played in front of much inferior defenses to Carrick.

...Then again, Carrick was only ever sent off once in his entire career.

Everyone just told you Carrick was a much more intelligent player in terms of positioning and a lot better passer. And Carrick was a better playmaker too.

You need to watch how Rice plays and understand what his current main strength and what aspects he needs to improve. If there are aspects he needs to improve to make him into a better one than he is now or more complete midfielder, the answer above should tell you why I feel Carrick could be a much better mentor than Matic for Rice.

 

[Bebestation]

 

[Raveneye]

Everyone just told you Carrick was a much more intelligent player in terms of positioning and a lot better passer. And Carrick was a better playmaker too.

You need to watch how Rice plays and understand what his current main strength and what aspects he needs to improve. If there are aspects he needs to improve to make him into a better one than he is now or more complete midfielder, the answer above should tell you why I feel Carrick could be a much better mentor than Matic for Rice.

Yeah, I already got that from them.

 

[Bebestation]

Yeah, I already got that from them.

I've not followed what you and the other follower has been talking about but I personally think I want Rice to learn a bit more creative long distance passing from Carrick rather than learn anything that matic does. I feel like Rice has what Matic does to some decent level but lacks a bit of what Carrick has.

Maybe he would learn from both but matic does look like he will leave this summer.

 

[Borys]

Isn’t that the point of ball playing centre back especially with left footed would make it easier for us to play the ball forward? And you got the double pivot to shield.

Isn't it a fairly normal tactic in a 4231 as well? As Ajax play it:


That's partly what I mean when I say it would be interesting to see those signings though. Aside from any player for player upgrades they might provide, we might shift what we do tactically a bit.

Yes, this is how we played for example against Everton in the Cup this season (Matic dropping, Pogba one man midfield). They didn't press us, we had it fairly easy to move the ball forward from defense. But I don't think this is effective tactic against team that press high (like Leicester yesterday), especially as our forwards like to stay high.

It's an option to have. We could do it with McTominay dropping to the right CB as well.

Isn’t that the point of ball playing centre back especially with left footed would make it easier for us to play the ball forward? And you got the double pivot to shield.

But if one midfielder drops you effectively have one man in midfield. Which makes it hard to play through pressing.

I don't recall any team playing that way, because you effectively give up on midfield battle.

 

[Adnan]

What is OGS most used midfielder?

I will save you the time. The answer is Daniel Berg Hestad. He was 35 years old in his first season playing for OGS. Only two years younger than OGS. He was never a player with much pace or energy, and certainly not at 35. But he had several other qualities.

Energy is always a plus, but that it is a priority for OGS over all other attributes is a bit of a myth in here. In fact, OGS is very pragmatic.

His most used midfielder is Magnus Wolff Eikrem, who not only played under him at United but also played more games than Hestad in the first two seasons at Molde before he left for the Dutch league in June 2013.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Yes, this is how we played for example against Everton in the Cup this season (Matic dropping, Pogba one man midfield). They didn't press us, we had it fairly easy to move the ball forward from defense. But I don't think this is effective tactic against team that press high (like Leicester yesterday), especially as our forwards like to stay high.

It's an option to have. We could do it with McTominay dropping to the right CB as well.


But if one midfielder drops you effectively have one man in midfield. Which makes it hard to play through pressing.

I don't recall any team playing that way, because you effectively give up on midfield battle.

That's the reason why we are playing high line to close the gaps when we are pressing. I doubt we will operate differently than what we had been with McFred or last season Matic-Fred if we sign Rice. McTominay tends to be all over the place in his positioning in my opinion.

 

[MadDogg]

So you believe Carrick is a significantly better DM than Matic? Hmm. I don't share this view, but would be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

Carrick was much better. Matic is a better dribbler and physically stronger, but I'm not sure if there's anything else that I'd give him the edge on. Carrick had better defensive positioning to slow opposition attacking raids and block passing avenues, and on the ball he was miles better at passing and controlling the tempo.

 

[andersj]

His most used midfielder is Magnus Wolff Eikrem, who not only played under him at United but also played more games than Hestad in the first two seasons at Molde before he left for the Dutch league in June 2013.

Ah, I stand corrected.

However, Eikrem was mostly used by OGS at Molde as a ten. More comparable to Fernandes than Rice/McT/Fred/Matic.

So, at seniorlevel, Aursnes and Daniel Berg Hestad is still his most used defensive midfielders. Berg Hestad had most apperances, Aursnes slightly more minutes. Anyway, it does not matter much. OGS had quite a few pacy, high energy players at Molde. At the end of the day, he mostly opted for Berg Hestad. I have no doubt he would have loved a type like Carrick.

 

[lsd]

Off course a thread on Declan Rice would turn into countless boring posts on Carrick vs Matic

 

[Adnan]

Ah, I stand corrected.

However, Eikrem was mostly used by OGS at Molde as a ten. More comparable to Fernandes than Rice/McT/Fred/Matic.

So, at seniorlevel, Aursnes and Daniel Berg Hestad is still his most used defensive midfielders. Berg Hestad had most apperances, Aursnes slightly more minutes. Anyway, it does not matter much. OGS had quite a few pacy, high energy players at Molde. At the end of the day, he mostly opted for Berg Hestad. I have no doubt he would have loved a type like Carrick.

I think Solskjaer is adaptable, and Carrick i believe would've been deployed just fine in a two man midfield even in a high pressing team. People also tend to forget that Carrick did show box to box capabilities in his early career. So I don't believe he would have a issue, if used that way. It would actually help us greatly if we had someone like him now.

 

[Borys]

That's the reason why we are playing high line to close the gaps when we are pressing. I doubt we will operate differently than what we had been with McFred or last season Matic-Fred if we sign Rice. McTominay tends to be all over the place in his positioning in my opinion.

McFred is the only midfield setup that actually plays around mid circle, that is imo part of the reason they actually are a good base for both attacking and defending. Whenever Matic plays he drops to defense, Pogba roams around etc.
Agreed about McTominay, he would be a decent player in back 3 as he can bomb forward but as a midfielder he has no awareness both on and off the ball.

In my opinion Ole got it wrong about midfield. As I understand the game plan is to go directly from defence to attack, but we could use more control of the game. This is what City do, they settle into a game with every minute because they flood the middle of the park.

If we plan to play tah way, we should just go for pure DM like Ndidi. What's the use of skilled player in midfield if his role is completely limited?

 

[Judas]

Can this thread go back to being about us signing Declan Rice?

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

What is OGS most used midfielder?

I will save you the time. The answer is Daniel Berg Hestad. He was 35 years old in his first season playing for OGS. Only two years younger than OGS. He was never a player with much pace or energy, and certainly not at 35. But he had several other qualities.

Energy is always a plus, but that it is a priority for OGS over all other attributes is a bit of a myth in here. In fact, OGS is very pragmatic.

Firstly, you should have probably saved some time for yourself and got the right answer.

Secondly, Hestad played in leagues that, I think we can both agree on, are played at a much slower pace than the Premier League.

Thirdly, I never once said energy is a priority over all attributes for Ole. Actually, I specifically mentioned that Ole started with Matic and Pogba - two players more cultured than McTominay and Fred. However, that didn't last long. Therefore, I can only assume energy was the factor as to why McTominay and Fred started to play over Matic and Pogba, and the reason why Carrick may have been in the same boat. I could be wrong, though. As I mentioned before, I do think we could do with a midfield controller.

 

[andersj]

Firstly, you should have probably saved some time for yourself and got the right answer.

Heh, a question of definition. Quite irrelevant still. The pace of Eliteserien is not high compared to the PL, but Hestad was no Carrick either. One should also be aware that Tippeligaen is very direct in style.

I think there is several reason why OGS dropped Matic/Pogba. One being that Matic is not very good defensively. He probably hoped that Matic could do a job similar to the one Carrick once did.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

McFred is the only midfield setup that actually plays around mid circle, that is imo part of the reason they actually are a good base for both attacking and defending. Whenever Matic plays he drops to defense, Pogba roams around etc.
Agreed about McTominay, he would be a decent player in back 3 as he can bomb forward but as a midfielder he has no awareness both on and off the ball.

In my opinion Ole got it wrong about midfield. As I understand the game plan is to go directly from defence to attack, but we could use more control of the game. This is what City do, they settle into a game with every minute because they flood the middle of the park.

If we plan to play tah way, we should just go for pure DM like Ndidi. What's the use of skilled player in midfield if his role is completely limited?

Matic plays that way because he is no longer have the pace to make the defensive recovery. Rice obviously still has the pace.

I still don't understand where is this ''Ole got it wrong''. And also using your argument about wanting more control, there is no reason to go for someone like Ndidi. What are you going to do with him, play him with Fred to control the game? That's not what you were thinking right?

 

[Borys]

Matic plays that way because he is no longer have the pace to make the defensive recovery. Rice obviously still has the pace.

I am not sure about that, to me he is quick enough. If he played as DM he doesn't need to make a defensive recovery, IMO it's just how we use him (tactical decision).

I still don't understand where is this ''Ole got it wrong''. And also using your argument about wanting more control, there is no reason to go for someone like Ndidi. What are you going to do with him, play him with Fred to control the game? That's not what you were thinking right?

If you want control in midfield, you need to have there at least two players. My point is, having one midfielder takes you out of midfield game against almost any team, so might as well go for DM specialist because one thing is for sure - one player will not control games. Doesn't matter if you play there Rice, Gundogan or Xavi.

Ndidi/Rice - Fred is a decent midfield, better defensively than McFred and no worse in terms of game control (which is probably still not good enough, but I don't think we will replace both our first choice midfielders in one summer).

 

[croadyman]

I am not sure about that, to me he is quick enough. If he played as DM he doesn't need to make a defensive recovery, IMO it's just how we use him (tactical decision).


If you want control in midfield, you need to have there at least two players. My point is, having one midfielder takes you out of midfield game against almost any team, so might as well go for DM specialist because one thing is for sure - one player will not control games. Doesn't matter if you play there Rice, Gundogan or Xavi.

Ndidi/Rice - Fred is a decent midfield, better defensively than McFred and no worse in terms of game control (which is probably still not good enough, but I don't think we will replace both our first choice midfielders in one summer).

Yeah I would also like us to rebuild the double pivot but that is definitely not going to happen in one window as we have more pressing issues at CB, CDM & RW maybe even backup RB before even thinking about a CM to control the tempo

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I am not sure about that, to me he is quick enough. If he played as DM he doesn't need to make a defensive recovery, IMO it's just how we use him (tactical decision).

If you want control in midfield, you need to have there at least two players. My point is, having one midfielder takes you out of midfield game against almost any team, so might as well go for DM specialist because one thing is for sure - one player will not control games. Doesn't matter if you play there Rice, Gundogan or Xavi.

Ndidi/Rice - Fred is a decent midfield, better defensively than McFred and no worse in terms of game control (which is probably still not good enough, but I don't think we will replace both our first choice midfielders in one summer).

No chance that he's quick enough. His leg is dead, he got outpaced so many times by lot of players this season and he also doesn't have the leg to run lot. I play in midfield, and I make sure maintain my positioning to cover my lack of pace so I understand what he does there and during the last minute of game when my leg burnt out, I tends to do the same just be lazy and sit deep to be more secure against opposition's counter.

Look at the James goal vs Newcastle, Matic is in advanced position


I was asking you to tell me what is your idea or the plan on signing Ndidi. It makes no sense if your aim is to control the game by partnering Ndidi who is not composed/calm on the ball with another player like Fred & McT who also not composed/calm on the ball. I'm not sure why is he even better candidate than Rice for controlling the game.

 

[Dante]

Firstly, you should have probably saved some time for yourself and got the right answer.

Secondly, Hestad played in leagues that, I think we can both agree on, are played at a much slower pace than the Premier League.

Thirdly, I never once said energy is a priority over all attributes for Ole. Actually, I specifically mentioned that Ole started with Matic and Pogba - two players more cultured than McTominay and Fred. However, that didn't last long. Therefore, I can only assume energy was the factor as to why McTominay and Fred started to play over Matic and Pogba, and the reason why Carrick may have been in the same boat. I could be wrong, though. As I mentioned before, I do think we could do with a midfield controller.

I think the last time we played Matic and Pogba together was the 1-6 defeat to Tottenham. That'll be why it's not been seen since.

Ole's tactic is to win the physical battle in midfield to allow the fullbacks to get forward (Shaw and AWB are both having the most productive seasons of their careers) and Bruno to take risks with his passing without worrying about losing the ball on the break (which is also working out pretty well).

Whoever we buy for midfield would need to fit the same mould of B2B midfielder as Fred and/or McTominay, ie. they need to be energetic in getting up and down the pitch but also defensively hard working. Long range passing would be a bonus, hence why Solksjaer likes to play Pogba at right CM but left AM. It's a quality he obviously seems to want in that part of the field, but not at the cost of the defensive lapses that PP brings with it.

Rice might be a bit of an upgrade of McFred in our specific system. But not enough to justify the inevitable transfer saga, imo. And I don't see Ole changing to a 4-3-3 any time soon.

The whole point of the double pivot is to allow a team to pick two B2B midfielders rather than a dedicated DM+AM. I think if we focus on getting four B2B midfielders into the squad (we already have two plus Garner), that'll make it easier to chop and change depending on form or fitness. This is why I'd prefer someone who's a bit more of an all-rounder than Rice.

 

[Borys]

No chance that he's quick enough. His leg is dead, he got outpaced so many times by lot of players this season and he also doesn't have the leg to run lot. I play in midfield, and I make sure maintain my positioning to cover my lack of pace so I understand what he does there and during the last minute of game when my leg burnt out, I tends to do the same just be lazy and sit deep to be more secure against opposition's counter.

Look at the James goal vs Newcastle, Matic is in advanced position


I was asking you to tell me what is your idea or the plan on signing Ndidi. It makes no sense if your aim is to control the game by partnering Ndidi who is not composed/calm on the ball with another player like Fred & McT who also not composed/calm on the ball. I'm not sure why is he even better candidate than Rice for controlling the game.

Matic got beaten (dribbled past) just as Pogba, Fred and McTominay on many occasions. This isn't because he's slow. Have you seen him dribbling past Leicester midfield recently?
He drops to the defense line from the very start of games, it's clearly a decision made by our coaching staff and IMO it's a mistake, because as your video shows he is quite a player in advanced position as well. Ole got it wrong with being stubborn about Pogba in midfield for example, although I can see what he was trying to do.

I think you misunderstood me or maybe I didn't make myself clear, I didn't "plan" to sign Ndidi. Although I don't agree he is not calm on the ball, he might not be a very good passer but he very rarely loses possession. He is just super conservative because he is the last man in front of the defensive line.

I don't know which one of Ndidi and Rice is a better candidate, because I've not seen enough of them. Ndidi looked good whenever I saw him play and did his job very well. I like him because he does a lot of defensive work on his own and plays in similar setup to us. Rice looks to be on the same level - good off the ball but not impressive in possession (not impressive meaning he does the simple stuff unless forced otherwise). And I think we could control most games with Ndidi/Rice - Fred midfield (not necessarily because of them but because of our team in general being quite good). Definitely not against top opposition, but we'd need to get two top-level midfielders to do that anyway, which as I said before is not happening in the near future.

What do you think Rice has over Ndidi? Just curious (I have not seen much of Rice but he seems to be highly rated on here).

One thing is for certain, DM should be our priority signing - and I really want a DM that stays in midfield rather than dropping to the defense constantly. I have a feeling this will transform current United side.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I think the last time we played Matic and Pogba together was the 1-6 defeat to Tottenham. That'll be why it's not been seen since.

Ole's tactic is to win the physical battle in midfield to allow the fullbacks to get forward (Shaw and AWB are both having the most productive seasons of their careers) and Bruno to take risks with his passing without worrying about losing the ball on the break (which is also working out pretty well).

Whoever we buy for midfield would need to fit the same mould of B2B midfielder as Fred and/or McTominay, ie. they need to be energetic in getting up and down the pitch but also defensively hard working. Long range passing would be a bonus, hence why Solksjaer likes to play Pogba at right CM but left AM. It's a quality he obviously seems to want in that part of the field, but not at the cost of the defensive lapses that PP brings with it.

Rice might be a bit of an upgrade of McFred in our specific system. But not enough to justify the inevitable transfer saga, imo. And I don't see Ole changing to a 4-3-3 any time soon.

The whole point of the double pivot is to allow a team to pick two B2B midfielders rather than a dedicated DM+AM. I think if we focus on getting four B2B midfielders into the squad (we already have two plus Garner), that'll make it easier to chop and change depending on form or fitness. This is why I'd prefer someone who's a bit more of an all-rounder than Rice.

It was actually against Sheff Utd in the league, which we lost.

Other than that, I agree with everything else, although I do think the midfielder we do get needs to have better defensive attributes than attacking ones, simply because as you said, onus is normally on the front four and the full-backs to create.

I think Rice would fit that criteria, although I would want a player with more of a passing range and someone who can dominate the games more.

Having said that, Pogba can always drop back into midfield, and I think we'll see him there quite often next season if he stays. What used to be Matic and Pogba, where we dominated games, could potentially be Rice and Pogba, with Fred/McTominay coming in when we need to solidify our midfielder more.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Matic got beaten (dribbled past) just as Pogba, Fred and McTominay on many occasions. This isn't because he's slow. Have you seen him dribbling past Leicester midfield recently?
He drops to the defense line from the very start of games, it's clearly a decision made by our coaching staff and IMO it's a mistake, because as your video shows he is quite a player in advanced position as well. Ole got it wrong with being stubborn about Pogba in midfield for example, although I can see what he was trying to do.

I think you misunderstood me or maybe I didn't make myself clear, I didn't "plan" to sign Ndidi. Although I don't agree he is not calm on the ball, he might not be a very good passer but he very rarely loses possession. He is just super conservative because he is the last man in front of the defensive line.

I don't know which one of Ndidi and Rice is a better candidate, because I've not seen enough of them. Ndidi looked good whenever I saw him play and did his job very well. I like him because he does a lot of defensive work on his own and plays in similar setup to us. Rice looks to be on the same level - good off the ball but not impressive in possession (not impressive meaning he does the simple stuff unless forced otherwise). And I think we could control most games with Ndidi/Rice - Fred midfield (not necessarily because of them but because of our team in general being quite good). Definitely not against top opposition, but we'd need to get two top-level midfielders to do that anyway, which as I said before is not happening in the near future.

What do you think Rice has over Ndidi? Just curious (I have not seen much of Rice but he seems to be highly rated on here).

One thing is for certain, DM should be our priority signing - and I really want a DM that stays in midfield rather than dropping to the defense constantly. I have a feeling this will transform current United side.

Getting dribbled past is fine but not having pace to recover after getting dribbled past is what I was referring to. Dribbling is not about speed but control and technique.

If that's what you meant then I must say Fred also did it, drops deep to defense not just Matic. Your concern should have been solved/balanced out with either Bruno who is advanced playmaker or Pogba who is wide playmaker (Pogba called the role as wide no 8) to drop deeper in a build up play. We have seen the improvement in our game and build up play when Pogba plays in that role. We probably just need an alternative for Pogba for this role if we need to rest him or if he's injured.

Didn't you say "If we plan to play tah way, we should just go for pure DM like Ndidi." ??

I thought your concern about the way how we set up is causing difficulty to play through pressing. How is Ndidi and him being the last man in front of the defensive line is relevant to improve our control of the game if we are still insisting to play the same way in our build up?

 

[Borys]

Getting dribbled past is fine but not having pace to recover after getting dribbled past is what I was referring to. Dribbling is not about speed but control and technique.

If that's what you meant then I must say Fred also did it, drops deep to defense not just Matic. Your concern should have been solved/balanced out with either Bruno who is advanced playmaker or Pogba who is wide playmaker (Pogba called the role as wide no 8) to drop deeper in a build up play. We have seen the improvement in our game and build up play when Pogba plays in that role. We probably just need an alternative for Pogba for this role if we need to rest him or if he's injured.

Didn't you say "If we plan to play tah way, we should just go for pure DM like Ndidi." ??

I thought your concern about the way how we set up is causing difficulty to play through pressing. How is Ndidi and him being the last man in front of the defensive line is relevant to improve our control of the game if we are still insisting to play the same way in our build up?

It won't, that's the point. We are giving up on midfield leaving there one guy and it doesn't matter who that is (that's why I talked about pure DM like Ndidi, he would secure the midfield but wouldn't help us to control the midfield). That's why I don't like when Matic, Fred and McTominay drop to defense, it doesn't benefit us both offensively and defensively. Although I agree it might be solved by Pogba dropping to midfield, this is a big improvement.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

It won't, that's the point. We are giving up on midfield leaving there one guy and it doesn't matter who that is (that's why I talked about pure DM like Ndidi, he would secure the midfield but wouldn't help us to control the midfield). That's why I don't like when Matic, Fred and McTominay drop to defense, it doesn't benefit us both offensively and defensively. Although I agree it might be solved by Pogba dropping to midfield, this is a big improvement.

It's not ''it might be'', it's already happened because we can see the improvement in our build up ever since Pogba plays in that ''wide no 8'' role. It's not giving up leaving the midfield with one guy when Pogba who plays as ''wide no 8'' adds the additional body in midfield when one of them dropped to defense, as well as when Bruno drops deep, it also adds extra body in midfield.

 

[Borys]

It's not ''it might be'', it's already happened because we can see the improvement in our build up ever since Pogba plays in that ''wide no 8'' role. It's not giving up leaving the midfield with one guy when Pogba who plays as ''wide no 8'' adds the additional body in midfield when one of them dropped to defense, as well as when Bruno drops deep, it also adds extra body in midfield.

For sure. Too bad we spent 80% of another season trying to fit Pogba into deep midfield, only to realize he's actually best (and the team is much more balanced) in free role/wide attacking midfielder. Which basically was common knowledge when he came 4 years ago.

But that's for another discussion.

 

[RUCK4444]

For sure. Too bad we spent 80% of another season trying to fit Pogba into deep midfield, only to realize he's actually best (and the team is much more balanced) in free role/wide attacking midfielder. Which basically was common knowledge when he came 4 years ago.

But that's for another discussion.

Yup, left of a midfield three is exactly where he flourished at Juve. Shouldn’t have been a surprise to anybody.

That said I still think he can play deep with the right partner, but like you say, different discussion.

 

[Litch]

Sorry, don't get the Rice thing. Not against players from so called lesser teams but I want proven world class, challenging for titles, playing in Europe quality. I get Harry vibes about Rice, good but not great. Not seen anything else to tell me different. People completely underestimate the pressure from being forensically looked at by the media etc. Already proven, the shirt weighs heavy without that experience.

 

[Gandalf]

Anybody doubting the need for this take a look at the sorry shower of shite that has been the Fred/McTominay performance tonight.

 

[izec]

He is a must this summer

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

For sure. Too bad we spent 80% of another season trying to fit Pogba into deep midfield, only to realize he's actually best (and the team is much more balanced) in free role/wide attacking midfielder. Which basically was common knowledge when he came 4 years ago.

But that's for another discussion.

? What are you on about?

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

He is a must this summer

I think so, too.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

May as well post this in here too.

Fred v McTv Rice

https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/

What was it?

 

[Phil]

I don't know how you can watch games like tonight and say we don't need 1. a solid DM and 2. Rice