So a player like Declan Rice, then
Declan Rice
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You might find that you have difficulty buying Rice after you refused to allow Lingard to go to West Ham. They may still feel aggrieved about that.
It increasingly feels like United have gone all in Rice. A lot like with Sancho this puts all the cards in the selling club's hands. Yeah, Rice will be a bit annoyed if he's denied a move but, like Harry Kane, what can he do if West Ham say £100m or nothing? Not much. West Ham have a one year option on his contract to extend it until 2025, which means he still has three years left on his deal. If we want him we gotta do what they want.
Personally I wouldn't pay £80m for any defensive midfielder. Fabinho is probably the best defensive midfielder in the Premier League and he cost half that much.
No doubt Rice improves us but is it worth blowing the best part of £100m on him..?
How about Maxence Caqueret at Lyon? Would anyone pick him ahead of Rice?
A DM coming into his peak with several years of proven seasons sure sounds like Declan Rice
The quick answer is no.
CDM is a very popular position these days and not exactly hard to fill if you actually want one.
We've ignored the position for years. While Rice is probably the best English option available, you can be sure there will be 10 more Brazilian, Spanish, Portguese DM's appearing.
West Ham can demand £60/70/80m+ all they want, but we should be able to get a similar talent for half of that.
The issue for me is the club simply haven't or don't recognise that a CDM is vital, and ball possession is key.
We seem to think posession is cowardly, and charging full speed on every attack is the only way to win.
I agree with you. However, you get sense from the noises being made by the Manchester press pack that United are basically all in on Rice.
I'm fully expecting this summer to be spent chasing Rice, hoping West Ham will reduce the asking price and then panic buying someone on deadline day. Call it a Pellistri or Amad to Rice's Sancho.
I hope I'm wrong.
I feel like the press link us to him because he's a player they think we'd fancy? I haven't personally seen a concrete link.
If West Ham get the CL this season then there is zero chance he leaves. I don't think with his contract length anybody is going to want to pay what WH want right now anyway.
I like him a lot. If Jorginho can star as a DLP in England then there's no reason Caqueret can't either.
Actually it probably should be
AfterMcFredtherewasRice
AfterMcFredtherewasRice
At his peak i said, as in a world class level talent already. Rice isn't even as developed as Carrick was when we signed him, he's at least a season away from that.
This is only Rice's second season demonstrating a better all round ability, before that it was very limited. Even now his range is a concern.
To be honest, I can make a video of McT and it would be exactly similar. No offense meant to Rice as a player.
I wonder how much would a prime Darren Fletcher cost in today's market? IMO he is at least as good as Rice.
No disrespect to Rice, Fletcher is my third favorite United player behind Cantona and Scholes.
No disrespect to Rice, Fletcher is my third favorite United player behind Cantona and Scholes.
If we were to sign him, i wouldn't think we would have a Soucek type player next to him, but instead play two more advanced players in a midfield three with Rice sitting in front of the back 4. that would be my hope at least.
Is his passing that great? i know his completion percentage is high, but in our last game, i dont remember him making any long forward passes to advance play. it was always little side to side passes and back passes. if we do sign him, i agree he would improve our midfield, but 100m is too much. signing him would make me want to bring Carrick back to mentor Rice on passes that can bypass a midfield and split the lines.
Is his passing that great? i know his completion percentage is high, but in our last game, i dont remember him making any long forward passes to advance play. it was always little side to side passes and back passes. if we do sign him, i agree he would improve our midfield, but 100m is too much. signing him would make me want to bring Carrick back to mentor Rice on passes that can bypass a midfield and split the lines.
He must be bought. Rice +1. Will say it again - closest thing I’ve seen to a young Roy Keane. Absolute #1 priority signing for me this summer.
I wouldn't hold your breath. We'll find a way to feck it up, either by finishing outside the top 4 this season or by engaging in a reprise of the Sancho negotiations during which we'll piss off West Ham by making a low-ball offer and then act all bemused and hurt when West Ham tell us to go feck ourselves.
Out of interest - who is a CDM that can pass like Carrick did aswell as defend the whole midfield by themselves, potentially being good enough to win titles and cups as a deep lying playmaker/Anchorman hybrid.
I'm struggling to find one, especially available.
Kimmich is one. Jorginho can do it but his cups were won alongside Kante, Barella and Verrati who are quite defensive minded themselves.
Who else is there?
I'm interested in Caqueret but I don't see him able to exactly cover the defence by himself either. Same with Frenkie De Jong, I want him here but I'm not sure that we could use him as our Carrick and rely on his defensive ability for protection.
I say this in the Rice thread because I think Rice is world class in terms of protection, and I don't see the negatives of then going to buy a world class playmaker who gets that protection either or the other way around.
I'm struggling to find one, especially available.
Kimmich is one. Jorginho can do it but his cups were won alongside Kante, Barella and Verrati who are quite defensive minded themselves.
Who else is there?
I'm interested in Caqueret but I don't see him able to exactly cover the defence by himself either. Same with Frenkie De Jong, I want him here but I'm not sure that we could use him as our Carrick and rely on his defensive ability for protection.
I say this in the Rice thread because I think Rice is world class in terms of protection, and I don't see the negatives of then going to buy a world class playmaker who gets that protection either or the other way around.
Rice+Caqueret for ≈130M will do it.
Anyone seen the interview with Gary? Yet again the guy is going on about how all his family are Chelsea, how is idol was Terry who now seems like some sort of mentor and he also doubles down by saying he doesn't want to go too far away from South West London where he grew up.
I know people will say who a guy supports as a kid doesn't affect where they end up signing, but I think it does in this case as he is a bit like a professional footballing equivalent of Ty.
I know people will say who a guy supports as a kid doesn't affect where they end up signing, but I think it does in this case as he is a bit like a professional footballing equivalent of Ty.
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His best mate is mount, he's a chelsea youth academy product.
If they pay up the money he moves there in a heartbeat.
Yeah I saw it, he really does seem like quite a sentimental guy - I can't see anything other than him playing for Chelsea in the near future.
I like him, think he will be a great player. But yeah we need to start looking at other DM targets.
We will still be linked all Summer to drive up the price, like.
If you are west ham and you make top 4 what do you do?
Build off the current team or sell Rice for the large fee and add multiple players.
Build off the current team or sell Rice for the large fee and add multiple players.
I don't think they have an option with Rice long term, it is just a question of whether they sell this Summer or next. Personally, I think if they do get Top 4, they should sell as they'll need to replace him and they also need a CF at a minimum. Both signings are easier if they have CL rather than not.
If they don't get CL, I would say keep him.
Forgetting the likely fees,absolutely not. However in terms of value possibly. I was hugley into signing Camavinga and also being potentially free, Kamara is a superb purchase. The other French young midfielder I have really liked on the few French games I have watched recently is Caqueret. Strangely never seen Monaco and Tchounami, only for France. But there is certainoy a lot of talent AND value in the French league I feel.
I am still very much of the opinion that wth potential outgoings we should definately be signign two central midfielders this summer. I think a big signing liek Rice or DejOng or Bellingham alongside more of a value signing like the above would be the ideal outcome for me.
I know there is a lot of £100m is ridiculous and it is, but not for West Ham. He is there captain and talisman an dbest player and very har dto replace. I dont think he costs us that much, probably more around £80m which is still very high, but nobody blined at the SAncho fee, its just because Rice isnt an attacking flair player...anyway point is Rice and Kamara for example for £80m the big signing and bargain....is that so bad for the pair, lets not forget we paid more than that for Fred and Van de Beek and I dont need hingsight to know which pair I would rather have
If we could only sign one player next summer, for me it would be him. Reality is that we need two central midfielders, a striker and an attacking right back. All of top quality.
I also think we need another centre back, but it would be the fifth signing. Jones, Bailly and Tuanzebe should all be leaving. Along with Matic, Mata, Lingard, Martial, Cavani, Greenwood and Pogba. VdB probably too.
I also think we need another centre back, but it would be the fifth signing. Jones, Bailly and Tuanzebe should all be leaving. Along with Matic, Mata, Lingard, Martial, Cavani, Greenwood and Pogba. VdB probably too.
Declan Rice another much hyped player, signing him would to me show how our standards have fallen over the years.
From West Ham's perspective, it must be better for them to sell after the current season. He will eventually leave, so there is no point in holding on to him one more season as his contract runs down further. He seems Chelsea bound, so, from United's perspective, this possible transfer is not really germane.
Are you high, mate? McT can live 4 lifetimes and will never be half as solid defensively or as good at moving the ball up as Declan. McT is not a bad midfielder at his best (he is just too inconsistent for a top club) but he is horrible as a holding midfielder. In contrast, Declan Rice is a very good holding midfielder, definitely not 100M good, but if we could get him for half that price, it would be worth it. He is just overpriced.
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Not sure if this video was already posted here
I think Declan is a good holding midfielder, but really don't want to see him at United, not at the price they are asking. We need to stop paying double price for decent players just because "premier league experience" bullshit. It's waste of money, guarantees nothing and creates expectations that only harms players. He also immediately admitted he is a Chelsea fan, so we may not be his first choice, anyway.
That said, I liked the interview. Declan sounds like a very smart, cool, and chill guy. Great personality to be one of the leaders of a healthy squad. Respect.
I think Declan is a good holding midfielder, but really don't want to see him at United, not at the price they are asking. We need to stop paying double price for decent players just because "premier league experience" bullshit. It's waste of money, guarantees nothing and creates expectations that only harms players. He also immediately admitted he is a Chelsea fan, so we may not be his first choice, anyway.
That said, I liked the interview. Declan sounds like a very smart, cool, and chill guy. Great personality to be one of the leaders of a healthy squad. Respect.
I like Rice as a player. But I don't want United to sign him for the amounts being touted.
He's another Pogba or Di Maria style galactico transfer in the making. Very different players and personalities, obviously. But, regardless, the club needs to move away for spunking its entire budget on one mega target.
The best performing teams buy lots of 2nd tier players (with potential to become 1st tier) who then compete with each other on the training ground. The best one wins out and the rest get sold on.
United need to strengthen the squad in the same way that City do. We laugh at their policy of hoarding so many fullbacks. But it works. Other than Grealish, they've rarely spent big on one man.
Every transfer is a gamble. And putting all our eggs into one basket is a recipe for disaster in the long term. It's compounded by the fact the board don't like to sell players even when they fail. We need to move away from that model. I hope Arnold has learned from the mistakes of Woodward in that regard.
He's another Pogba or Di Maria style galactico transfer in the making. Very different players and personalities, obviously. But, regardless, the club needs to move away for spunking its entire budget on one mega target.
The best performing teams buy lots of 2nd tier players (with potential to become 1st tier) who then compete with each other on the training ground. The best one wins out and the rest get sold on.
United need to strengthen the squad in the same way that City do. We laugh at their policy of hoarding so many fullbacks. But it works. Other than Grealish, they've rarely spent big on one man.
Every transfer is a gamble. And putting all our eggs into one basket is a recipe for disaster in the long term. It's compounded by the fact the board don't like to sell players even when they fail. We need to move away from that model. I hope Arnold has learned from the mistakes of Woodward in that regard.
Tchouameni's cost has risen to 80 million euros.
https://amp.marca.com/en/football/real-madrid/2022/01/28/61f3ece3ca47417b728b4583.html
That's approx 67.5 million pounds.
If Rice was the same price as that then would people be okay for Rice over Tchouameni?
https://amp.marca.com/en/football/real-madrid/2022/01/28/61f3ece3ca47417b728b4583.html
That's approx 67.5 million pounds.
If Rice was the same price as that then would people be okay for Rice over Tchouameni?
Good question. Many would probably still say no because he’s English.
I would go for Rice at around 60m. My concern is I think we need more than one new midfielder so its either one massive signing and a punt on someone or two better deals
We really are the new Liverpool. Buying overrated overpriced English talent whenever we can.
I think we'll see us moving away from that approach under the new manager.
The whole "Brexit FC" thing was very much an Ole thing, I reckon.
I'd happily take Rice for £60m, he's vastly improved the last few seasons and seems like a guy willing to put the hard yards in to further improve.
So, from what I’ve seen from him he’s defensively solid and is good at dribbling with the ball and breaking through the lines.. however his passing seems to be below par.
I’d rather we focus on someone who can get the ball, dictate play and help control the game from deep (Carrick).. and for the prices mentioned he really should be able to do everything.
I’ll pass thanks.
I’d rather we focus on someone who can get the ball, dictate play and help control the game from deep (Carrick).. and for the prices mentioned he really should be able to do everything.
I’ll pass thanks.
So they'd rather he goes to a London rival?
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