Do not introduce young players into a team when seniors are playing badly?

[Mark Pawelek]

Scholes: 'We've seen over and over again how many mistakes experienced players are making. It's difficult for young players to come into a team like that'

I can see this makes sense. You want to introduce young players into a side who are performing well.

On the other hand, when senior players are playing badly you actually need to replace them with players who perform better, and each current player should have a possible replacement, in the squad, pressurising them to do better in matches. LVG played about 11 kids at one stage or another. They did badly sometimes, but others didn't look out of place. I remember LVG playing kids in defence, and some didn't do well. Others put in good performances. Players played in attack did well, or no worse than others. I can't see how Scholes' mentality justifies keeping kids out of attack, or, even, midfield.

 

[roonster09]

What Scholes said is correct but then we don't have much choice as we have trimmed the squad to promote them.

Ideally, we should have very strong first team with players who sets high standards on and off the pitch, then young players should do very well to meet those standards.

 

[SilentWitness]

It's also difficult when some of your most experienced players are still only 21. Rashford and Martial both nearly have 200 appearances for United in all competitions despite only being 21 and 23.

 

[youmeletsfly]

It depends how you're looking at it.

If you're a youngster seeing experienced players making mistakes or playing jack shit, you should see it as a bigger opportunity. You should work even harder. It's not like young players will also inherit the mistakes the experienced ones do(unless they're plain dumb).

I personally feel it's better to bed young players in when things aren't at their best, it helps them grow and learn quicker. If things are going brilliant, young players might get carried by the team.

 

[pocco]

I've been thinking it for a while. Back in the day the team could carry a youngster or two no problem. I still believe Januzaj was a victim of this. Think he would have at the very least been a useful player in this team if he had the right environment to begin with.

 

[Raw]

In CB we have Maguire who can act as the senior figurehead, and there's Young for the fullback positions (he's not great but he's got a lot of experience).

It's the rest of the team that lacks senior players who play at a consistently good level. Midfield we have Pogba who doesn't even want to be here and Matic who's past it. In attack there's Mata who isn't exactly doing great and...that's it? We clearly wanted an experienced striker in the summer but we failed at that.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

What Scholes said is correct but then we don't have much choice as we have trimmed the squad to promote them.

Ideally, we should have very strong first team with players who sets high standards on and off the pitch, then young players should do very well to meet those standards.

We trimmed players who:

• failed for years, or
• cannot adjust their game to play tactics favoured by Ole
• demanded to start and refused to accept the bench role offered

 

[roonster09]

We trimmed players who:

• failed for years, or
• cannot adjust their game to play tactics favoured by Ole
• demanded to start and refused to accept the bench role offered

Yeah, I'm not against trimming the squad. I said we have no choice but to play youngsters now and can't go with what Scholes said.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

...
I personally feel it's better to bed young players in when things aren't at their best, it helps them grow and learn quicker. If things are going brilliant, young players might get carried by the team.

No one disputes you. That is best. But will that be the only time young players are allowed to start? United don't have that opportunity right now; to do the perfect thing. At Saints, I watch senior players not dealing with the opposition press, and making bad passes. If I witness someone like Garner dealing well with an opposition press while making good passes - then I just don't see an argument for playing Matic ahead of him.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

Yeah, I'm not against trimming the squad. I said we have no choice but to play youngsters now and can't go with what Scholes said.

Sorry for snapping at you. Groveling apology offered.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

What Scholes says is definitely true; it's better to blood youngsters and indeed bring any player into a team that is already doing well. However it cannot be that you never play kids unless you have a firing experienced side. The way we have trimmed the squad means we will have to roll the dice on a few of the promising kids we have eventually, and while it could work against them it could also be the making of those who are ready to shoulder more expectation.

 

[LVGSdive]

The young players should be taking their place anyway. They can't make the mistakes if they are not on the pitch.

 

[red woppit]

I agree to a point with Scholes' comments, a young player coming into the team requires a certain amount of stability. With Maguire and AWB in the back line, we have certainly strengthened our defensive capabilities, but we don't have a settled team as of yet, with CB and LB positions still not assured. The two CM positions again are not stabilised, McTominay appears to be one of those two, but whether Pogba or Fred is the answer, I'm not sure, would like to see Fred on left and McTominay on right of midfield two, to me that gives us a more solid look. Personally, I would still give Gomes a run at the 10 position, I think he is extremely talented, and even if he didn't have a great game, he has the ability to open up a defence.

 

[Botim]

It depends on what your goals are.

If you see this year (and probably the next two years) as a transitional year, aimed at building a solid foundation for the future, there's no harm in playing a lot of youngsters to allow them to get used to the cut throat environment of the Premier League. This requires patience from fans and board though, as predictably it spells at least two more years of mediocrity (in terms of results). In the end it might well be what takes us back to the top. Chelsea are currently doing this (not by choice). Let's see how it turns out.

If your goal is winning trophies and challenging for top spots on the short term, then dumping a load of inexperienced youngsters into an already unstable mix will obviously not be the way to go. This doesn't seem to be our goal, however. Otherwise we would have bought more and different players. Hopefully the fans can see this and don't start calling for the sack come Christmas time.

 

[Casanova85]

Man Utd's future post 2018 is built around the promise of maximizing the young talent. From our academy to gifted youngsters of Top7-12 clubs or even Championship jewels. Period. Not necessarily british but brexit is certainly not helping.

Enough of failed expensive +26 yo signings. Maguire is, so far, the exception of 5 sad years of failed not-youngster signings.

 

[Beagle]

Biggest factor is the quality of the young players in question. If there is someone who can uproot a lot of trees they will shine eventually.

 

[Enigma_87]

He is spot on of course. You don't throw youngsters in the deep end but introduce them gradually in an already coherent team.

That is of course the club has serious ambitions and is challenging for the top spots.

 

[Casanova85]

I thought the manager was the one who tells the players what to do...and how

Training is underrated.

 

[Varun]

His comments belong to an ideal scenario far from our reality and totally missing the context of our summer.

Ole has publicly said that he wants to give time to the kids and that has affected our incomings. Add to that the fact that our so called senior players haven't been performing well and it'd be stupid to not play the kids.

 

[Enigma_87]

Man Utd's future post 2018 is built around the promise of maximizing the young talent. From our academy to gifted youngsters of Top7-12 clubs or even Championship jewels. Period. Not necessarily british but brexit is certainly not helping.

Enough of failed expensive +26 yo signings. Maguire is, so far, the exception of 5 sad years of failed not-youngster signings.

Our best players are the ones that we bought from other clubs.

With the exception of Rashford(and Pogba) I'm struggling to name one academy player that would be good enough for the first team let alone a starter.

A very large number of young players don't make it even the ones that show a lot of talent like Ravel, Possebon, Macheda, Wilson, etc..

 

[Casanova85]

Our best players are the ones that we bought from other clubs.

With the exception of Rashford(and Pogba) I'm struggling to name one academy player that would be good enough for the first team let alone a starter.

A very large number of young players don't make it even the ones that show a lot of talent like Ravel, Possebon, Macheda, Wilson, etc..

I included both options. I refuse to believe that Man Utd's academy only offers duds.

 

[R'hllor]

Yea it would be an issue if young players looking up to older clowns but hope they aint that dumb.

 

[Enigma_87]

I included both options. I refuse to believe that Man Utd's academy only offers duds.

Point is once in a 5 years or so we would provide a talent that is good enough to be first team regular, especially in the shape our youth football is at the moment.

When you rely on 3-4 players to come good from the current ranks that happens very very rarely. CO92 was almost 30 years ago. Barcelona produced 3 world class talents 15 years ago. We're relying on all many talents to come good and do it straight away, whilst also respond to the pressure of first team football.

You can't rely on players like Mason and Gomes to be starters at tender age and perform in a broken team. You have to have senior players and guide them through 2-3 years of rotational football before they are ready to be relied upon.

 

[JPRouve]

It depends a lot on the club, it's environment and the manager. I suppose that we are talking about Gomes and Greenwood, in their case the situation is fairly simple if they have to play significant minutes it's because the team is short in numbers and quality which means that if they happen to become starters then everyone at and around the club should be understanding and let them play through mistakes and only provide support.

In some clubs it's impossible because these young players are replacing loved or infuential players and they sometimes are in clubs that have little patience. Here, we all think that the team is mainly want and we don't really like the "established" players. So if I was in the staff, I would be in favour of letting the kids play and I would personally keep their moral as high as possible, mistakes happens and neither of them have to be perfect or saviours.

 

[Casanova85]

Point is once in a 5 years or so we would provide a talent that is good enough to be first team regular, especially in the shape our youth football is at the moment.

When you rely on 3-4 players to come good from the current ranks that happens very very rarely. CO92 was almost 30 years ago. Barcelona produced 3 world class talents 15 years ago. We're relying on all many talents to come good and do it straight away, whilst also respond to the pressure of first team football.

You can't rely on players like Mason and Gomes to be starters at tender age and perform in a broken team. You have to have senior players and guide them through 2-3 years of rotational football before they are ready to be relied upon.

That's not Utd's current strategy.

 

[Abhinav]

In an ideal scenario, Scholes is absolutely right. It is also something that Ole is mindful of and thats why we haven’t seen any of Mason, Axel, Gomes or Chong have a starting role yet. If Mason was the one who was missing chances instead of Rashford, the criticism might have got to him and blown his confidence. Its unfortunate that we are having to throw the young players in the deep end. While some might thrive, others might lose confidence and start wilting under the pressure. Ole and the coaching team have to take the right call which is not only driven by the on pitch needs of Man United, but the broader interests of the young players. It seems Nicky Butt’s role was also created knowing what these players may face in the next 12-18 months.

 

[Enigma_87]

That's not Utd's current strategy.

We shall see actually as we're in the beginning of the season. Regardless it's United or any other club, young players have to be eased in and supported when they are frustrating with their decision making.

Even Rashford is still young and needs a lot of patience and guidance to become a top player.

 

[Offside]

What happened to if you're good enough you're old enough? Throw them in that's what I say.