Excellent response as ever.
Do our players need to man up?
- Thread starter noodlehair
- Start date
Rio's such a fecking idiot, I can't believe he actually said that, considering how rubbish he's been this season.
Well the squad IS flawed. We have a huge black hole in midfield, our two best players are both strikers so it's very hard to play anything but 4-4-2 as Rooney thinks and acts as a forward even when we attempt to play some kind of 4-2-3-1 with him there so tactically we're not very flexible. We do not have neither the numbers nor the quality for a three-man midfield; our only natural number 10 has been a bit disappointing ever since signing for us; we rely on wingers because of the aforementioned tactical rigidity but they've been out of form for so long we almost forget what it's like when they are in form.
Last season we had Carrick performing out of his skin and RvP saving our asses numerous times. That was significant. Neither player performs (and both are currently injured) as well this season as they did last season so the cracks are more obvious, more apparent.
Having said that: the playing style Moyes seems to favour is even more rigid than what we grew accustomed to in recent years, we play far too many long balls and seem to lack any sort of game plan. The starting line-ups and the substitutions are often baffling and we usually rely on individual mistakes from opponents or goalmouth scrambles or set-pieces to score goals. Also, Moyes had an entire summer to address some of the issues in the squad, to do something about the lack of balance and he came up with Fellaini.
Many expected him to make us tougher, more unpleasant to play against but that hasn't happened; we've been a bit soft in recent years and it hasn't changed at all or if anything, it got worse. We look mentally and physically soft.
He's gone full retard this season. With all his posting of his new clothes and his number 5 brand bullshit. Concentrate on football you cnut.
Moyes had a summer oand at-least 30m to improve our midfield situation. He didn't, and signing Felliani in long term might be even worse considering that be it him or his successor will find it hard to offload a 28m signing with a huge wage.
To be fair, many predicted that some of our more technical players will get some mysterious injuries in the training. Dutch FA has already asked United why RVP is getting injured so much.
Agree with this part. I thought that we won't be good attcking but we will be hard to beat and we'll have a solid defense. This hasn't happened. I think that if we give time to Moyes he eventually will achieve it, which on other words will get translated as a solid team which finishes in position from 3 to 7.
He probably spends double the amount of time he spends training on twitter, that douche.
Excellent thread noodles.
I know it's frowned upon to post an image in the FF, but I'll make it small and it sums up my feelings for the OP.
Really, I'd add to it but you said everything I was thinking. The players are getting an easy ride at the moment.
I know it's frowned upon to post an image in the FF, but I'll make it small and it sums up my feelings for the OP.
Really, I'd add to it but you said everything I was thinking. The players are getting an easy ride at the moment.
Excellent thread noodles.
I know it's frowned upon to post an image in the FF, but I'll make it small and it sums up my feelings for the OP.
Really, I'd add to it but you said everything I was thinking. The players are getting an easy ride at the moment.
They will get one because this is a title winning squad. I will say again, Fergie papered over the cracks, the first XI lacs quality. We are not playing too well now. Moyes is being quite cautious with his selections imo, but he will get better.
bang on from the thread starter, Noodlehair, we harp about our squad being the best, but some in our first team have been constantly been schooled/bullied, and outshone by smaller teams. we see the like of Everton being intelligent on the ball, all we look for is evra or Rooney most of the time, same thing over and over, pass back, sideways, find evra/Valencia/rooney if not repeat until sucessful. Just look at last Bayern last/this year, for example vs Chelsea in the supercup hardly anyone all match passed backwards, always looking to pass dangerousley forward.
Don't get me started on Rio, Giggs (I can't believe at 40 he still makes school boy errors, he was directly responsible for the goal)
Don't get me started on Rio, Giggs (I can't believe at 40 he still makes school boy errors, he was directly responsible for the goal)
Do any of those clubs have senior players in incredibly shit form, who think the correct attitude is to only put 80% into games because they're so great they'll win them anyway?
The issue for me is our performances were horribly stale enough last season, and there was a 3 month long sulk after we lost to Real Madrid...and that was with Fergie as the manager.
It's the manager's job to sort the players out, but it doesn't absolve them from being responsible when they play like a bunch of spanners, and show no desire to graft a bit in order to do something about it...in fact appear to somehow be in denial of the need to do so?
There's too many for me with either Rio's mindset of thinking they're the fecking bollocks despite playing like utter shite most of the time, or who just seem too scared or panicky to be United players.
You can get away with having a few players like that if the others will bring them on or keep them in line, but we've amassed nearly an entire squad full of them.
When it gets to the point that an 18 year old reserve player making his debut has to pretty much single handedly show the rest of the team how to react to going a goal down, you know there are problems.
Be funny if we did win it & Spurs came 4th again
But seriously, Barca, Madrid, Munich say we don't have a prayer.
They also said Chelsea didn't, to be fair.Be funny if we did win it & Spurs came 4th again
But seriously, Barca, Madrid, Munich say we don't have a prayer.
True, within a minute or so of coming on he made a defence splitting pass from midfield that not one other United player had managed (or perhaps thought about!!) for the previous entire game!
The amount of kicks out of defence going nowhere but to an Everton player..and ridiculous hopeful headers in midfield going nowhere but to an Everton player...was so frustrating...these players have better skills than that...it's just plain lazy.
The OP's post is obvious. Any good manager in any field will know that a key part of the job is to make sure your staff don't become lazy, complacent and let standards slip, because if you leave people to their own devices this generally happens. Sometimes you are lucky enough to have a supervisor in the factory or shop floor (a Roy Keane) that will enforce the standards, but from my experience the majority of the time it's the job of the manager. Obviously at Chelsea the Terry's, Lampard's and Cole's have always been the supervisors who have kept the standards, irrespective of manager. But at clubs where the managers aren't disposable, like United and Arsenal, that figure is always the manager, because the manager has the last word (see Fergie vs Keane). This is why the managerial job at a club like Arsenal or United is more difficult than Chelsea or City, as these responsibilities lie solely at the managers door.
At a club like United or Arsenal if the manager can't instill confidence and a strong mentality, ensure high standards and prevent complacency and laziness, then they aren't doing their job.
At a club like United or Arsenal if the manager can't instill confidence and a strong mentality, ensure high standards and prevent complacency and laziness, then they aren't doing their job.
Dunno about that. A manager usually have a representative on the field. In Fergie era, it's Robson, Keane, Gary Neville, Vidic. Players who epitomized the manager. Right now the player that Moyes bought to help him is Fellaini, which is sadly the epitomized the manager as well.
I beg to differ with prevailing sentiments in this thread. The buck stops with the manager, we didn't hire a coach in Moyes but a manager. His job is to manage the playing side at United, he is one of the executive officers at the company who needs to assume responsibility for the failings of his division. The manager is meant to be in control of everything related to the football team from recruitment, performance assessments and turnovers of the playing personnel to the ability to design and formulate a coherent working strategy and mentoring (if need arises) of his flock.
Most of the players look jaded, rudderless, fearful of making a mistake and above all bereft of some basics of football that they have proven to possess in spades in the past. Not to discount the obvious qualities of SAF but ultimately it was these players that did the business to make him such a successful manager. Moyes needs to ask himself what has he done differently to SAF? Does it have anything to do with his tactical approach? team selections? training methods? Approach to man-management?. One would have thought that having SAF still around at the club would have helped the transition but on the evidence of how we have performed, it begs the question whether Moyes does make use of the great man.
Perhaps Moyes needs to do less coaching and more MANAGING because at the moment we are seeing neither.
Most of the players look jaded, rudderless, fearful of making a mistake and above all bereft of some basics of football that they have proven to possess in spades in the past. Not to discount the obvious qualities of SAF but ultimately it was these players that did the business to make him such a successful manager. Moyes needs to ask himself what has he done differently to SAF? Does it have anything to do with his tactical approach? team selections? training methods? Approach to man-management?. One would have thought that having SAF still around at the club would have helped the transition but on the evidence of how we have performed, it begs the question whether Moyes does make use of the great man.
Perhaps Moyes needs to do less coaching and more MANAGING because at the moment we are seeing neither.
They look like a team who think something is going to happen next year. A bunch of them will leave/retire. New players will come in. There are too many players who look like they're in a holding pattern, waiting for the cull. People can talk all they like about the challenge they've got of playing for their place, but most people don't react like that - uncertainty makes them anxious, sometimes that looks like indifference. Remember that comment by SAF that, "the training ground should be a happy place," I can't imagine it being a happy place right now.
The saddest thing about the team at the moment is that for a club that prides itself on youth development, we're looking remarkably like a club that can't bring young players through to their full potential. Remember how good Tom Cleverley looked two years ago? Two years on and we've got a player who looks so nervous of making a mistake that he can't do anything.
So yeah, leaders on and off the pitch. That would be nice. But this is SAF's squad and this is its composition. Moyes had the chance to change it, but he didn't trust our scouts or his instincts enough to do it. We didn't want Ozil, but Ozil's arrival raised spirits at Arsenal as well as adding quality - that didn't happen to us. We haven't updated our formation. We haven't embraced the idea of transition and using the potential players instead of the oldtimers.
We're still trying to "just get a few results under our belt" and while that's the mood, it's the manager who is setting the mood. The players are just reflecting that kind of nervous, hope for the best, things will be different next year hesitancy. It doesn't encourage leadership or boldness.
The saddest thing about the team at the moment is that for a club that prides itself on youth development, we're looking remarkably like a club that can't bring young players through to their full potential. Remember how good Tom Cleverley looked two years ago? Two years on and we've got a player who looks so nervous of making a mistake that he can't do anything.
So yeah, leaders on and off the pitch. That would be nice. But this is SAF's squad and this is its composition. Moyes had the chance to change it, but he didn't trust our scouts or his instincts enough to do it. We didn't want Ozil, but Ozil's arrival raised spirits at Arsenal as well as adding quality - that didn't happen to us. We haven't updated our formation. We haven't embraced the idea of transition and using the potential players instead of the oldtimers.
We're still trying to "just get a few results under our belt" and while that's the mood, it's the manager who is setting the mood. The players are just reflecting that kind of nervous, hope for the best, things will be different next year hesitancy. It doesn't encourage leadership or boldness.
Not for the first time this season we look completely pathetic when we go a goal down. No fight at all, I was absolutely livid, they're even doing the basics at the moment. No is showing for the ball, no one the creating space, it's pathetic. Really does look like they're not trying at times, I don't care if he's not a great coach the club comes above everything.
They're all marking time, waiting for next season. That's the tone I hear from Moyes. That looks like the tone the players are hearing as well.
I'm starting to think our best bet for getting anything out of this season is to do something out of character. Spend heavy in January. Pay over the odds for players that play in positions where we've got players daydreaming. Shake the squad up as a statement of intent. Or simply drop the disappointing players and hope that our young players at least can learn something by playing, even if they can't improve our results.
Otherwise we just plod our way through the season, hope that the other teams choke, wish for freak results in the CL, and wait to see if we get gifted something. Then we wait for next season.
I'm starting to think our best bet for getting anything out of this season is to do something out of character. Spend heavy in January. Pay over the odds for players that play in positions where we've got players daydreaming. Shake the squad up as a statement of intent. Or simply drop the disappointing players and hope that our young players at least can learn something by playing, even if they can't improve our results.
Otherwise we just plod our way through the season, hope that the other teams choke, wish for freak results in the CL, and wait to see if we get gifted something. Then we wait for next season.
This this this this this this fecking this.