Do you see the plan yet?

[POF]

His game management is extremely juvenile sometimes. The last half hour of every game against a top side, we look like we're going to get destroyed.
Against lesser sides, the games where we can't pretend we're underdogs and hence generate less natural motivation, we still have no idea what to do when a team sets up to hit us on the counter.

Last night was a fantastic win, absolutely no question. But if we're here to appreciate tactical nuance, I'm not really sure which wheel he's invented here.

That's generally because he has no options. He went into that game with bench options of Greenwood, Mata, Pereira and 3 defenders. He could have done with more legs in midfield or throw on a fresh pacy attacker to expose them on the counter attack.

But apart from throwing on a young kid when they were in a "no mistake" moment, his options for pace on the counter or midfield energy were Mata or Pereira.

Poor Pep had to make do with £60m Mahrez or Champions League finalist Gundogan.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

There is that, but the early 90s on wards is nearly 30 years ago.

So, that argument is fine but you are pretty much writing off any supporter under 40.

Obviously not all fall into that category, but after 20 years of constantly being in the top three and challenging for the title, it would be harder to take for people who haven't known what it feels like for us to be irrelevant in a league campaign.
I was desperate for Ferguson to get the sack in late 1989, because we weren't great for four years, and were looking more and more in decline. Even when we won the cup I still wasn't convinced about him.
I think what bother's people about Ole is his inexperience as a top flight manager. Is he tactically sound? is he mentally strong? People want assurances that an experience manager gives them. Fans are becoming desperate for success and losing patience. However there are others like me who see a squad developing, and showing flashes of where we would like to be. All that is lacking is consistency, and some of us want to give Ole the chance to put that right.

 

[ivaldo]

I think it's an oversimplification to call us a counter attacking team. What Ole has tried to implement is a style based on fast transitions. That's easier to do against teams that express themselves. We haven't been urgent enough when trying to break teams down, and we lack that creative outlet to play that final ball most weeks. Add some creativity in January and we become a significantly better team.

 

[waza7111]

Here we go blaming Ole again with nonsense logic.

Let’s think first before jump into conclusion shall we. We got 3 midfield injured at the same time. 3 out of 4 option for midfield 2. Why do we need more than 4 for just 2 spots?

Very rarely to see 3 midfields injured at the same time. Chelsea on the other hand only got Kante injured. Only one not three!

I don't rate our midfield options very highly. Matic is no longer a viable midfield option due to being old and slow. Pereira is not really a central midfielder. He's more of a number 10 or winger.

So that's only 3 realistic options for 2 central midfield spots. I definitely would have preferred a Fellaini-Herrera cm partnership over Fred-Pereira. At least they would have given us a physical presence .

 

[Red_toad]

If you’re not backing Solskjaer now, you’re not paying enough attention. I’ve seen enough in the last two games to be fully confident about where we are going.

Who’s plan?
Caf’s is sell Rashford, sack Ole, buy lots of lovely young players and get in a manager who’s either young or failed at his last club. Then expect our players to grow whilst not being supported by the fans and overly scrutinised.

Our last 2 games our better players have been great. Can’t wait to see Pogba back (that’s if he’s up for it).

 

[MrVolley]

Eh? Did you even watch the Spurs game? We were superb.

Superb? It would appear many have been conditioned to have low expectations. We no longer control games at home. That's poor in my book and has never been acceptable for as long as I've been watching United (>40 years)

 

[Bilbo]

People who wont buy into the plan wont change their minds after 1 game, because its bigger than any single result.

What this week has done is buy Ole a bit more time with those people, because they will still be out in force the next time we lose.

Hopefully what it might eliminate is the posts claiming Ole to be 'out of his depth','the worst manager in the PL', and the numerous other personal comments that had made me embarrassed to be a board member here. We have seen enough now be past that level of abuse.

 

[The Cat]

People who wont buy into the plan wont change their minds after 1 game, because its bigger than any single result.

What this week has done is buy Ole a bit more time with those people, because they will still be out in force the next time we lose.

Hopefully what it might eliminate is the posts claiming Ole to be 'out of his depth','the worst manager in the PL', and the numerous other personal comments that had made me embarrassed to be a board member here. We have seen enough now be past that level of abuse.

I agree with that. I am still not sure Ole is the man to be there next season but while he is there he will get my support. What a good week in any case.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I don't rate our midfield options very highly. Matic is no longer a viable midfield option due to being old and slow. Pereira is not really a central midfielder. He's more of a number 10 or winger.

So that's only 3 realistic options for 2 central midfield spots. I definitely would have preferred a Fellaini-Herrera cm partnership over Fred-Pereira. At least they would have given us a physical presence .

And Chelsea also have 3 realistic options for 2 CM spots but only one of them got injured while we got 2 injured. They would also struggle as we do if 2 of them injured at the same time. So what was your point?

 

[Trex]

Atleast our problems are now easy to identify and few....a year ago everything looked wrong credit to solskjaer now its time he is backed in the window sancho,haaland and a holding midfielder i dont see the point in buying a ten giving that pogba can play that role...the old united never played with a classic 10 the threat was with the wingers and strikers so we should be looking to add more quality in those positions sancho would create more chances than maddison central midfield only need depth...the plan is clear if u dont see it you have not been looking

 

[waza7111]

And Chelsea also have 3 realistic options for 2 CM spots but only one of them got injured while we got 2 injured. They would also struggle as we do if 2 of them injured at the same time. So what’s your point?

My point is we should have kept both Fellaini and Herrera or at least signed one more central midfielder in case an injury crisis happens.

 

[Valuedrug]

Others have already pointed out the major flaws of this, so I won’t bother repeating it.

But really, everyone gets so emotional. It’s two games. Spurs were awful. City are inconsistent this season, their is shattered, and finally some of the leaders in that team are either injured or going through a patch of poor form (Aguero and Silva). Not to mention we didn’t dominate chance creation either - xG was somewhere between even or quite skewed towards City.

And in both those games we were underdogs, not to mention how easy it must be to get the players up for both the derby as well as beating a manager at home, who made their life miserable no less than a year ago.

I have seen no broader pattern to suggest that Ole and his team can navigate the waters of modern day United to build anything close to resembling a top team competing on multiple fronts. Should he manage to prove me wrong, I would *love* it.

But maybe we could just make it past Christmas, before we anoint him the saviour again?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Superb? It would appear many have been conditioned to have low expectations. We no longer control games at home. That's poor in my book and has never been acceptable for as long as I've been watching United (>40 years)

What a load of shite, we dominated Spurs for the majority of the game. Kept the ball better under pressure, created the better chances and were more clinical in taking them. Frankly if you've watched football for 40 years and can't see that then you might as well call it a day as you are completely wrong.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I saw it months ago, then again im not a thick plastic git

They should change your name back to Ramscock.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

My point is we should have kept both Fellaini and Herrera or at least signed one more central midfielder in case an injury crisis happens.

That's just an excuse to blame Ole, remember you blamed Ole because we only have 3 "realistic" options, while in your view it's okay for Chelsea to also only have 3 "realistic" options.

You mentioned Kante being injured, my response was they got 1 injured with 2 covers left while we got 3 injured with 1 cover left, your response was to blame Ole. Let me ask you again, what was your point there? What do you think will happen if both Kante & Kovacic got injured at the same time?

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Not really. I see a good countering attacking side which I could see under Mourinho as well. It's when we're pinned back or when we're tasked with breaking a stern defence down that we don't have a plan for.

 

[RedSky]

to build anything close to resembling a top team competing on multiple fronts. Should he manage to prove me wrong, I would *love* it.

He's had one transfer window. One.

 

[Member 101269]

I think it's an oversimplification to call us a counter attacking team. What Ole has tried to implement is a style based on fast transitions. That's easier to do against teams that express themselves. We haven't been urgent enough when trying to break teams down, and we lack that creative outlet to play that final ball most weeks. Add some creativity in January and we become a significantly better team.

agreed, it's also oversimplification of some that think buying players is like an EA FIFA game.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Not really. I see a good countering attacking side which I could see under Mourinho as well. It's when we're pinned back or when we're tasked with breaking a stern defence down that we don't have a plan for.

I'm not really sure why people can't see the difference between the counter attack under Mourinho & Ole. With Ole, when we actually are attacking from counter, you'll see there are 5-7 players available for attacking option. While under Mourinho, when we actually are attacking from counter, you'll only see 2-3 players available for attacking option, result in no threat for the opposition players.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

Not really. I see a good countering attacking side which I could see under Mourinho as well. It's when we're pinned back or when we're tasked with breaking a stern defence down that we don't have a plan for.

When was this great counter attacking we did under Mourinho bar maybe the first 4 games of 2017/18? And the breaking teams down bit is also a bit of a myth. Whats happening is that we are short on midfield options bar McT, Fred and Pogba. And the best of those is perennially injured, and one is 22 and hence inconsistent at times. So we're seeing exactly what was to be expected going in the season. Sheffield for example had more possession than us. Yet we couldn't put a decent counter against them or hold possession for the first 45 minutes. Could it possible have been because we're a thin squad and not just because we're a counter attacking side?

BTW I saw some amazing possession play against both Spurs and City at times. We were hardly just a counter attacking side.

 

[Bestietom]

Obviously not all fall into that category, but after 20 years of constantly being in the top three and challenging for the title, it would be harder to take for people who haven't known what it feels like for us to be irrelevant in a league campaign.
I was desperate for Ferguson to get the sack in late 1989, because we weren't great for four years, and were looking more and more in decline. Even when we won the cup I still wasn't convinced about him.
I think what bother's people about Ole is his inexperience as a top flight manager. Is he tactically sound? is he mentally strong? People want assurances that an experience manager gives them. Fans are becoming desperate for success and losing patience. However there are others like me who see a squad developing, and showing flashes of where we would like to be. All that is lacking is consistency, and some of us want to give Ole the chance to put that right.

I agree, I would love to see Ole succeed. Every manager makes mistakes, now and then but with a few more top players we could be up there challenging for honours next season.

 

[IamjustDimitar]

There can be a trade-off between short term success and long-term. We could make big name signings (RVP, Zlatan, Lukaku, Pogba) that would help us get short term results. But it would not be sustainable since the core of the team has been neglected for a long time. There is a huge difference in buying a big name signing into a stable squad like SAF's teams and then our post-SAF lineups. It took Liverpool years of inconsistency to reach what they have today, and for years they were getting results against big teams and losing against the small teams. OGS might not be the manager that gets to reap the rewards of what is being done now, but at every level we have improved and there is a glimpse of a core in the team that is made of young players that want to play for Man Utd, not mercenaries here for the paycheck. With good investments in the next few transfer windows, this will be a very strong squad.

 

[Stepney73]

That's generally because he has no options. He went into that game with bench options of Greenwood, Mata, Pereira and 3 defenders. He could have done with more legs in midfield or throw on a fresh pacy attacker to expose them on the counter attack.

But apart from throwing on a young kid when they were in a "no mistake" moment, his options for pace on the counter or midfield energy were Mata or Pereira.

Poor Pep had to make do with £60m Mahrez or Champions League finalist Gundogan.

100%

Most Utd fans I know have the same concerns about oles in game managment but as we al know the squad is a bit paper thin at this time so hopfully that will improve as the squad gets stronger.

IIRC no team has really battered us and that's with the injuries and half arsed star player going missing for most of the season.
His signings have been spot on so its now up to the club to back him fully and get some players in and move forward.


With more quality and options in midfeild and attack I think we should be OK to start beating the "park the bus teams"

 

[waza7111]

That's just an excuse to blame Ole, remember you blamed Ole because we only have 3 "realistic" options, while in your view it's okay for Chelsea to also only have 3 "realistic" options.

You mentioned Kante being injured, my response was they got 1 injured with 2 covers left while we got 3 injured with 1 cover left, your response was to blame Ole. Let me ask you again, what was your point there? What do you think will happen if both Kante & Kovacic got injured at the same time?

There's no doubt we are short in midfield compared to Chelsea who have good cover in case big name players get injured. We don't have that cover because we decided to sell 2 established midfielders and not replace them. I'm not sure whether Ole or Woodward is to blame for this. Anyway let's agree to disagree and move on.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Others have already pointed out the major flaws of this, so I won’t bother repeating it.

But really, everyone gets so emotional. It’s two games. Spurs were awful. City are inconsistent this season, their is shattered, and finally some of the leaders in that team are either injured or going through a patch of poor form (Aguero and Silva). Not to mention we didn’t dominate chance creation either - xG was somewhere between even or quite skewed towards City.

And in both those games we were underdogs, not to mention how easy it must be to get the players up for both the derby as well as beating a manager at home, who made their life miserable no less than a year ago.

I have seen no broader pattern to suggest that Ole and his team can navigate the waters of modern day United to build anything close to resembling a top team competing on multiple fronts. Should he manage to prove me wrong, I would *love* it.

But maybe we could just make it past Christmas, before we anoint him the saviour again?

So you are basically taking all the credit away from United by saying the other teams were that bad, so that is why we won? All the ones wanting Poch. I seriously don't think he is the answer. I have had doubts about Ole, but can see what he wants to do. It will need the club to back him to the hilt.

 

[Valuedrug]

He's had one transfer window. One.

Is building a team only about buying players now? Coaching, tactics, game motivation, representing the club publicly - all irrelevant is it? Or does what you’ve seen from Ole so far fill you with confidence? If so...well, good for you I guess?

 

[LInkash]

Maybe we're planning for the European Super League, that way every game will be a big game and we'd stand a good chance.

 

[DLE]

Saw the plan long a while ago, I actually listen to Ole and he’s communicated it a number of times. Hearing and seeing though, I understand the difference and the question.

One reason we play better against the big guys is we actually show up. We respect them and are alert. Even Ole stands more on the sideline (usually sits) which ups the urgency.

 

[ReddBalls]

Is building a team only about buying players now? Coaching, tactics, game motivation, representing the club publicly - all irrelevant is it? Or does what you’ve seen from Ole so far fill you with confidence? If so...well, good for you I guess?

Those things you mention, they fill me with confidence.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

There's no doubt we are short in midfield compared to Chelsea who have good cover in case big name players get injured. We don't have that cover because we decided to sell 2 established midfielders and not replace them. I'm not sure whether Ole or Woodward is to blame for this. Anyway let's agree to disagree and move on.

They got Kante, Jorginho & Kovacic, while we got Fred, McTominay & Pogba. 3 & 3. So how in any logic you called us short in midfield but they are not short in midfield? What do you think will happen if both Kante & Kovacic got injured at the same time? Do you not think they will struggle as we do if those two injured at the same time?

 

[Valuedrug]

So you are basically taking all the credit away from United by saying the other teams were that bad, so that is why we won? All the ones wanting Poch. I seriously don't think he is the answer. I have had doubts about Ole, but can see what he wants to do. It will need the club to back him to the hilt.

No, I was fearing defeats, and instead I got wins. Great. Much better attitude, and some real threat on the counter again. But I’ve seen this before. And there are real caveats about these two wins, which I won’t ignore.

Instead of veering from one extreme to the next on a weekly basis, let’s see if we can go on the run Ole has been taking about. With patterns of play that work against opponents who sit back as well. I want to see them hold their heads high, and keep going, even with their backs against the wall playing opponents they’re expected to beat. Show me that, and I may think differently.

 

[Valuedrug]

Those things you mention, they fill me with confidence.

Fair enough. To each his own.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

No, I was fearing defeats, and instead I got wins. Great. Much better attitude, and some real threat on the counter again. But I’ve seen this before. And there are real caveats about these two wins, which I won’t ignore.

Instead of veering from one extreme to the next on a weekly basis, let’s see if we can go on the run Ole has been taking about. With patterns of play that work against opponents who sit back as well. I want to see them hold their heads high, and keep going, even with their backs against the wall playing opponents they’re expected to beat. Show me that, and I may think differently.

I do agree that we now have to show the same attitude in the next few games. Otherwise they will be classed as Big Time Charlies. They have to work out how to overcome sides that just sit deep. However that has been a problem for a number of years, not just Ole's problem. I don't want this to be another PSG moment.

 

[Keefy18]

I understand, but this team has more than enough quality and been together under him for long enough to deal with it. It hasn't just been the top teams that have had a go at United to offer those counter-attacking chances, most of the smaller teams have as well, they're not really parking the bus against United. So the problem doesn't just lie with Pogba's absence or a lack of reinforcements; at least not to the degree it may seem. He has been here long enough to develop a style of play that should be able to deal with the lower-half of the table, and there's no excuse for how United have looked in most of those games.

Again, sometimes you need some kind of catalyst game to bring a new spark to the team, and I like Ole so I'd love to see it happen and have it be turned around but I can't blame anybody for reserving their judgement in spite of those latest results.

It doesn't really when you look at what he's got to work with.

Defence - Jones, Shaw and Young are not good enough.

• Jones is stealing a living at the club!
• Shaw is far too injury prone and his weight fluctuates each time.
• Young is on his last legs and already being phased out with Williams looking likely to be the main LB in the years ahead.

Midfield - It's a mess here.

• Matic is similar to Young, finished at a top level. Needs replacing!
• Fred is slowly starting to show us the player he can be, but without McTominay he can't be everywhere on the pitch, he was completely over ran in the Villa and Sheffield Utd games. We need another option in there! Arguably we need to replace Matic AND sign another player.
• Pogba - Without a doubt our most naturally brilliant CM, but folks hate him by an large and want rid of him.
• Pereira - Not good enough
• Mata - Well an truly finished
• Lingard - Useless! A headless chicken literally!

Attack -

• Martial we need more from him and he is still picking up niggling injuries.
• James is looking a fantastic bit of business, but still needs to improve obviously
• Rashford - Seems to be hitting some great form and will break the 20 goal mark this season it seems.
• Greenwood - Not ready yet by any means but he's been a welcome addition.

We could still do with a proven attacking WF or Target man to assist the attack.

Realistically, the quality is minimal. It's about 5 players you could build this team around. Outside of that Ole is struggling to replace quality with quality and performances / results drop off.

De Gea, Maguire, AWB, McTominay, James and Rashford.

On to the 2nd bold part -

It's very simple, does he have the necessary players to play how he truly wants? We all know the honest answer is no.

I can still see what he is trying to do, depending on the opponent he is either playing counter attacking football and other games with a high press and forcing errors.

Yes we struggle to break down smaller teams but what your ignoring is we've missed our most creative outlet in Pogba, yet you suggest there are capable replacements within this squad, Who? Lingard? Give me a break he hasn't contributed to a single goal in 20 something PL games. Mata is finished as mentioned and Pereira is simply not good enough.

If you are truly honest you know what I'm saying is a fact and reality is he's performing brilliantly with a poor bunch of players.

 

[tonnas]

Ole need to figure out how to create against lesser defensive teams, he clearly knows how to set up a counter. If we manage that we will be fine but the last year shows us he didnt figure it out and the next 4 games are vital if he is OUT or IN

 

[Valuedrug]

I do agree that we now have to show the same attitude in the next few games. Otherwise they will be classed as Big Time Charlies. They have to work out how to overcome sides that just sit deep. However that has been a problem for a number of years, not just Ole's problem. I don't want this to be another PSG moment.

True, it’s been a problem for a long time. Which always leads me back to the major structural and cultural issues at United, which the ownership and Woodward are ultimately responsible for.

They’ve created a situation, where only a sorcerer of a manager like Fergie can build a consistent team. And to be honest, I think even his formula was running on fumes at the end due to their structural neglect.

I wish I believed Solskjaer was the leader to end this rot, but I just don’t. Not from what I’ve seen so far. He is a nice guy with a great appreciation of what United should be about, but leadership is a lot more than that. Especially against the odds, which is what you take on as manager at United these days.

 

[DoomSlayer]

We lack the creative players to consistently open up the teams that sit back, Mata and Pereira are awful, Lingard is just getting back into farm but has never been a creative genius and Pogba has been injured for almost the whole season so far.

We desperately need cover in the CM position and quality players for the CAM and RW, players who can carve defenses with passes or dribbling.

I can also see that we really are on our way in improving the physicality of our squad - 2 incredibly tough games in 4 days against Mourinho and Guardiola, and we held on in terms of intensity in both of them, despite having less time for recovery than both those teams.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Solskjaer is fully aware of the capabilities of our squad right now. He knows we lack the creativity needed to break down lesser sides. It's why he said that's what we'd focus on obtaining in the next transfer window.

 

[RedSky]

Is building a team only about buying players now? Coaching, tactics, game motivation, representing the club publicly - all irrelevant is it? Or does what you’ve seen from Ole so far fill you with confidence? If so...well, good for you I guess?

The squads been wafer thin all season, that's been clear as day, you can't build a team with players you don't rate or like hence why Ole got rid of so many last Summer. The difference being that we tried out the kids with mixed success. Now Ole can plug the gaps with more transfers to build his team.

I've seen more than enough to fill me with confidence and i've backed him all the way through so far. The club now needs to invest in Oles vision and continue to rebuild the right way.

 

[Ramshock]

They should change your name back to Ramscock.

They have...but as long as its not RamsPlasticCock its all good