Do you see the plan yet?

[Josep Dowling]

The abuse thrown at OGS has been disgraceful and based on nothing but ridiculous expectations from spoilt customers who lose their shit when not instrantly gratified.

Not really the behaviour you’d expect from a supporter.

That’s the difference between customers and supporters

Says the man who has ‘Pochettino’s number 1 fan’ under his username?

 

[Skåre Willoch]

A point to be made about the missing results against weaker sides is that the fault is not entirely on the attacking setup. Against all of them, we concede horrendous goals, usually from personal errors from players, not tactics. We should've kept more clean sheets than we have against those sides.

Josh King scored a beauty, but he should have been marked a lot better. The younger Longstaff scored a screamer, but should've been pressured a lot more. And against Sheffield? Total meltdown in defence led to the late equaliser.

Now, obviously we need to score more and figure out a way to break them down. But conceding stupid goals makes it even worse. And that's not entirely on Ole.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The plan hasn’t changed, it’s based on counter attacking. Now Ole has bought himself some time and probably a January window, he needs to use this time and the window to make us much much better at breaking down sides that sit back.

 

[Reddevildans]

Manchester city played into our hands. There was always a chance this was going to happen today. Were the best counter attacking side probably in the league but probably the most uncreative and bluntest teams when it comes to opening smaller teams with men behind the ball. I feel we look the most dangerous when theres gaping holes and wide spaces for our players to run into. This was a great result and performance but we shouldn't get carried away. We need one or more players with guile in the middle if we are to become more consistent against all teams.

 

[sammsky1]

Says the man who has ‘Pochettino’s number 1 fan’ under his username?

Thats a pisstake from one of the mods. I think Poch is vastly over rated and don't want him as manager!

 

[Dr Fink]

Still not convinced and don’t see a plan. Get off the mini run of games bandwagon.

 

[Riz]

I echo what most have said already, it’s been a fantastic week and a hell of a lot of positives to take for Ole (this coming from someone who thinks we should still be actively considering Poch). But we need to see us continue to play well against teams who will surrender the initiative to us, that’s where we’ve been dropping points for multiple seasons and throughout this year as well. We’re a very good counter attacking side with pace to burn to exploit gaps such as those that City offered today. So let’s see how we perform over the rest of the Xmas period against sides who will sit back and look to counter us instead. Pogba should help that if he comes back and plays a more advanced role.

Nether-less it’s a brilliant day and credit to Ole for it.

 

[Castia]

Very positive indeed

We need to find a way of beating the smaller teams though. This counter attacking system works in the big games against good opposition but we need to completely change it up for the ‘smaller teams’.

 

[sammsky1]

Very positive indeed

We need to find a way of beating the smaller teams though. This counter attacking system works in the big games against good opposition but we need to completely change it up for the ‘smaller teams’.

Will require a worldie midfielder and No 9 hitman before that happens. Not possible with current squad composition.

 

[Wumminator]

Still not convinced and don’t see a plan. Get off the mini run of games bandwagon.

How can any united fan watch us over the last week and think “I’d much rather be pessimistic”

what is wrong with you?

 

[Green_Red]

I certainly saw a plan that worked today. Just as it did against Chelsea. Unfortunately it involved counterattacking to a degree that will only work against certain teams. We still need to have an effective way of playing against lesser teams.

But today ain't the day for that sort of criticism.

Thats been obvious to everyone even before a ball was kicked this season. We need a player than can unlock defences that sit deep, that hasnt changed either. Let Ole get that player and we will be able to do both counter attacking and unlocking deep sitting defensive sides.

For people that compare LvGs and Mourinhos time as this, they clearly dont watch the games, its not even comparable.

 

[CM]

I think there's always been evidence of what Solskjaer wants to do with this team. He has made a conscious effort to change what was fundamentally wrong with this team under Mourinho but we still lack quality (and numbers) in key areas to do it with any kind of consistency.

Players like James and McTominay have surpassed any expectations I would've had for them at the start of the season, and a few other young players have shown signs of promise too. We'll need more investment if we are to see tangible progress, but it's a start.

 

[Red_Aaron]

I'm backing him to the end, partly because I love him unconditionally and partly because I remember every moment of the absolute trash that proceeded him (many people on here are quick to forget this imo)

The next window or 2 are absolutely crucial, the squad is crying out for some experienced heads which are often very difficult to sign, he Ole can get the right ones we've a real chance to challenge imo

 

[Tyrion]

What's the plan? I see counter attacking yes. What else can you see to tell us?

2 good results. I think that's it. There are plenty of people who want to back OGS and will look at what supports it.

 

[peridigm]

If you’re not backing Solskjaer now, you’re not paying enough attention. I’ve seen enough in the last two games to be fully confident about where we are going.

I've been backing him but I will admit some of the matches had me questioning it. I did not think the players were not putting in the effort for Ole in the majority of our matches but if it was any other manager you'd swear they stopped playing for the manager. These past two matches have proved to me, they clearly are playing for Ole. Let's see how we do against the mighty Everton new manager bounce next week. It will be interesting to see where Pogba fits in. Neither Fred or Scott deserve to be benched.

 

[Silver]

There's definitely a plan. If you're positive and patience you can buy in to the plan. With LVG the football was dire. With Mourinho the attitude was dire. With Ole it's been up and down because of injuries and lack of reinforcements but the attitude, the football and the heart has been there to see when it has clicked. Yes, we're inconsistent but there is something in the way that these players want to play for him... in the long run with a couple more signings it will pay off because he's building up a core group of young players here which is better than short term solutions.

 

[Sky1981]

When i see a proper team goals consistently, a team that can keep possession in tight press, a team that can recyle posession on the oppo half with crisp passing and not losing the ball every 3rd pass, when i starter seeing player attitude improve.

When i see all that i know that's a manager i can fully support and that nothing is a fluke. You can still lose an odd match, but if all of the above is visible than it'll only be a matter of time

 

[sammsky1]

 

[HowYouDoin]

4 things we learned over the last week.

1. Its easier for us to play teams like Tottenham and City that wont just sit back and defend cuz we can hit them on counters and its our real strength.

2. Rashford is becoming elite.

3. McTominay is super immense and Fred looks much better alongside McTominay

4. We need more depth and star power. Just McTominay missing you can notice a huge drop off in quality. Without him both Tottenham and City kill us. We are actually doing well consider how little star power we have. Outside Rashford now, we have nobody. We seriously need 2 or 3 world class players and more depth.

 

[Hawks2008]

Last 2 results and performances were excellent and against good teams too but I'm still going to wait and see if this isn't another false dawn before I come around to Ole.

 

[Gasolin]

4 things we learned over the last week.

1. Its easier for us to play teams like Tottenham and City that wont just sit back and defend cuz we can hit them on counters and its our real strength.

2. Rashford is becoming elite.

3. McTominay is super immense and Fred looks much better alongside McTominay

4. We need more depth and star power. Just McTominay missing you can notice a huge drop off in quality. Without him both Tottenham and City kill us. We are actually doing well consider how little star power we have. Outside Rashford now, we have nobody. We seriously need 2 or 3 world class players and more depth.

Did you just say a Spurs team under Jose doesn't sit back and defend? Of course they do, and they "counter" teams too. That's exactly the kind of team. We can hit any team, just like Liverpool does, we just need to be more lethal and in confidence. It's coming.

 

[POF]

There has always been a pretty obvious plan under Ole. When the first 11 are available, it's a very good team. But the squad is so thin that 3 or 4 injuries creates a huge drop in the quality of the side. Also, the inexperience of the team (and coaching staff) leads to a lot of inconsistency.

In pre season, if you were to name the first 11, it would have been the team that started vs City apart from Pogba for Fred. That is actually a really good sign. It was no accident. The improved form is a by product of first team players coming back from injury. Now, the club needs to build the quality and depth of the squad.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Let's wait for a few more games to come to any conclusion. We have had too many false dawns and mini runs. The matter of facts is still Ole's result as a permanent manager is nowhere good enough for man utd. He still has no stlye of football that suit the biggest club in the world which is playing dominant football and always dictate the play in the match. We even play defensive and counter attack against Sheffield and Villa in phases of play during the match.

Having said that as Man Utd fan the last 2 games have been brilliant and bringing back memories during SAF reigns. We were so effective in attack!

 

[RyRy11]

14/18 points against chelsea, leicester, arsenal, liverpool, spurs and city

10/30 points against wolves, palace, southampton, west ham, newcastle, norwich, bournemouth, brighton, sheff utd and aston villa


So we can safely say there's a pretty solid plan for the teams that are better than us.

Its crazy how the former is title challenging form and the later is bottom of the table form. If we can get this squad beating teams we should be beating then we should be getting top 4 comfortably. Considering the points we’ve dropped I guess it’s good that we are only 5 points away from 4th with more than half the season to go.

 

[NewGlory]

"We can only play counter-attacking" is an over-simplification and, with all due respect, meaningless point of view. Pep's City is a top team that is hard to beat with any style. Just a look at their bench and comparing who they could bring in to the field, compared to us, was terrifying. Try beating them with whatever style and see how easy it is. Not to mention that we were not "counter"-anything the first 30 minutes.

It's not that we were counter-attacking, it's that City wasn't parking the bus against us. So, yes - we have a problem with teams who park a bus, but so do most other teams. That is not our main problem. Sheffield wasn't parking a bus against us and neither was Villa. And honestly, with the tenacity of Rashy today and the grit of Martial, we could break down any team, bus or no bus. That is not the point, the point is - Rashy and Martial don't always play t he way they did today or the way they played against Spurs. Not to mention how different Fred played in the last two games.

Our main problem is lack of consistency. With the attack and defense boys played today, we can do top 4 easily, this season. We also need depth of the squad, because the same starting 11 cannot play entire season, not a season like EPL. Just not physically possible.

It is clear that our summer signings worked out. AWS, Maguire, James - all three start every game and make us better. Maybe we overpaid for Maguire, but who cares - we paid what we had to, at least we are better, even if he's not anywhere close to VVD. Compared to stupid signings we'd made in the past, this summer was great. If we buy 3 more players that are as good, in the right positions, next summer and keep improving the likes of Green, Tuanzebe etc. - we'll be in a good place.

It's too early to judge Ole. Not because he has not had enough games (he has), but because he's not had enough players coming in. Objectively, he's neither been an instant success, nor instant failure. Clearly he's not an idiot, an idiot couldn't have won today's game or the one on Wednesday. Long-term, we'll see what's what.

 

[Pearson]

Of course we need to be more effective when trying to crack open the defence against small clubs.

if we do, we are a complete product. But do not forget we are building the team.

 

[NewGlory]

Of course we need to be more effective when trying to crack open the defence against small clubs.

if we do, we are a complete product. But do not forget we are building the team.

Yeah, we are ways off, but I'd take this team, even with all the disappointments and heart-breaks, over the horror days of LvG.

 

[Amarsdd]

"We can only play counter-attacking" is an over-simplification and, with all due respect, meaningless point of view. Pep's City is a top team that is hard to beat with any style. Just a look at their bench and comparing who they could bring in to the field, compared to us, was terrifying. Try beating them with whatever style and see how easy it is. Not to mention that we were not "counter"-anything the first 30 minutes.

It's not that we were counter-attacking, it's that City wasn't parking the bus against us. So, yes - we have a problem with teams who park a bus, but so do most other teams. That is not our main problem. Sheffield wasn't parking a bus against us and neither was Villa. And honestly, with the tenacity of Rashy today and the grit of Martial, we could break down any team, bus or no bus. That is not the point, the point is - Rashy and Martial don't always play t he way they did today or the way they played against Spurs. Not to mention how different Fred played in the last two games.

Our main problem is lack of consistency. With the attack and defense boys played today, we can do top 4 easily, this season. We also need depth of the squad, because the same starting 11 cannot play entire season, not a season like EPL. Just not physically possible.

It is clear that our summer signings worked out. AWS, Maguire, James - all three start every game and make us better. Maybe we overpaid for Maguire, but who cares - we paid what we had to, at least we are better, even if he's not anywhere close to VVD. Compared to stupid signings we'd made in the past, this summer was great. If we buy 3 more players that are as good, in the right positions, next summer and keep improving the likes of Green, Tuanzebe etc. - we'll be in a good place.

It's too early to judge Ole. Not because he has not had enough games (he has), but because he's not had enough players coming in. Objectively, he's neither been an instant success, nor instant failure. Clearly he's not an idiot, an idiot couldn't have won today's game or the one on Wednesday. Long-term, we'll see what's what.

Good post! That bold part is very important. People forget we have a very young team with a young core, thus its esp. difficult to maintain consistency when we have key players out injured (period when Martial and/or McTominay were out). Thus, its very difficult to exactly pin point the "plan". But based on the evidence of games when we have the players available and confident, we have seen a plan that consists of very quick and direct transitions anywhere on the pitch offensively (no tiki-taka, no possession-based bs) and aggressive but tactical pressing when not in possession.

 

[waza7111]

You have to understand that they got someone to cover him while we got 3 midfields injured at the same time Matic, Pogba & McTominay. Imagine if two of Kante & Kovacic are injured, they would be left with Jorginho alone playing with whoever they got left probably make the same impact as Pereira.

And that’s Chelsea. What about Leicester city. Their form also has been good not only because quality they got but also their starting XI barely getting injured.

That's Ole's fault for selling 2 international footballers in Herrera and Fellaini and not replacing them. If Ole was desperate enough to keep Herrera we would have offered him a new improved contract.

 

[Silver]

That's Ole's fault for selling 2 international footballers in Herrera and Fellaini and not replacing them. If Ole was desperate enough to keep Herrera we would have offered him a new improved contract.

I don't think Ole had any say about either of their departures to be honest but we should have definitely got a replacement for Herrera. Fellaini was deadwood and would have been if he had stayed. I put this down to Woodward... he simply didn't want to spend on a midfielder or spend enough to renew Herrera's contract given the numbers and so Ole has been forced to use Peirera. But even when Herrera was there, we had the same problem in midfield when there were injuries. Matic was a lousy buy to satisfy Mourinho and has faded.

If the core trio of Mctominay, Fred and Pogba were fit at the same time we'd be doing far better. Bad luck and poor depth. Is that upto Ole or Woodward? I'll give him another summer window to see what signings Ole himself actually makes.

 

[Bobcat]

That's Ole's fault for selling 2 international footballers in Herrera and Fellaini and not replacing them. If Ole was desperate enough to keep Herrera we would have offered him a new improved contract.

You have not been paying attention have you?

 

[Red-17]

For the first time in a long while, we're starting to actually see improvements in our own players rather than regression or stagnation. Rashford has had the best year of his career under Ole, Martial is having his best season since his first one with us, James looks like he should have been sold for triple what we paid, and McTominay has gone from a player who looked completely lost at times to an enforcer who is vital to the squad. We have a solid 12 or 13 players, but we don't have the depth particularly in midfield or striker to compensate for injuries so naturally we will be inconsistent.

 

[rollingstoned1]

The problem is 2 fold, the fault may or may not be Ole's. One is that we lost a genuine goal scorer in Lukaku and without him in the lesser games where sometimes the tone for the whole match is set by your main striker putting away bread and butter chances, the players whom we are trying to groom for that role and who are not ready for it have not always turned up and been at their sharpest which has cost us. Other than that our lack of squad depth and creativity hurts us when we need clearly well drilled playing patterns and creative players who can unlock stubborn defences and low blocks where space needs to be created and is not available that easily. Lost in the outrage iover here is also how much our injuries have affected us even in the first half of the season, whether that is because of how they have been training or other random factors is up for debate. Ole's failing if any is in not being able to coach proper patterns of play which lets us score 'easy' goals in a game, something that Rashford even hinted at. How well you will do as a team will depend a lot on how hard your players do not have to work for goals by depending on unforced errors in defence from the opposition or your own individual brilliance. for that he needs to look at creating and enforcing a template similar to the one which allowed us to go on a run after he took the job last december but of course now without Lukaku, Herrera and Fellaini. Whether or not he keeps his job will depend entirely on this. Id start looking at ways to integrate creative players from the reserves and academy who have already got a taste of first team football if he can't sign someone in January for the same.

 

[Ducklegs]

I guarantee you that the whingers started supporting United from the early 90s onwards.

There is that, but the early 90s on wards is nearly 30 years ago.

So, that argument is fine but you are pretty much writing off any supporter under 40.

 

[Bobcat]

The problem is 2 fold, the fault may or may not be Ole's. One is that we lost a genuine goal scorer in Lukaku and without him in the lesser games where sometimes the tone for the whole match is set by your main striker putting away bread and butter chances, the players whom we are trying to groom for that role and who are not ready for it have not always turned up and been at their sharpest which has cost us. Other than that our lack of squad depth and creativity hurts us when we need clearly well drilled playing patterns and creative players who can unlock stubborn defences and low blocks where space needs to be created and is not available that easily. Lost in the outrage iover here is also how much our injuries have affected us even in the first half of the season, whether that is because of how they have been training or other random factors is up for debate. Ole's failing if any is in not being able to coach proper patterns of play which lets us score 'easy' goals in a game, something that Rashford even hinted at. How well you will do as a team will depend a lot on how hard your players do not have to work for goals by depending on unforced errors in defence from the opposition or your own individual brilliance. for that he needs to look at creating and enforcing a template similar to the one which allowed us to go on a run after he took the job last december but of course now without Lukaku, Herrera and Fellaini. Whether or not he keeps his job will depend entirely on this. Id start looking at ways to integrate creative players from the reserves and academy who have already got a taste of first team football if he can't sign someone in January for the same.

Lukaku had to go, that has been discussed to death already.

I think the plan, both from Ole and Woodys stance, was to trim the squad a bit before we made new additions. The past year we have seen 6 players go (if you count Smalling and Sanchez) and only 3 in, despite every man and his dog being able to see that would leave us very thin in certain areas.

Both Ole and Woody understood this, hence Woody coming out in his defense after some poor results. First part of the rebuild was always going to be clearing out some unwanted players, since we had a very bloated squad and the second highest wage bill in the league despite the quality of the squad not matching that at all. If Inter by some miracle want Sanchez permanently, that's 400k/week in wages cut and that is enough for 4 good players or 2 very good players.

Based on recent quotes from both Woody and Ole, it seems they want to sign some players in January, and hopefully this recent upturn in results does not change that, because we are still in desperate need of new signings if we want this to continue. Also, our problems with low blocks is imo not so much an tactical issue as it is a player profile issue. Both Rashford and James, and to some extent Martial are at their best when they have space to operate in, but struggle with packed defenses as they dont have the skillset to handle that.

As good as Scott and Fred has been lately, we have also lacked creative passers in midfield with Pogba out. In fact, without Martial and Pogba, we have very few players in the squad that are great at holding up the ball and inviting pressure on themselves, creating space for others and that is key to unlocking low blocks. You need someone who is super comfortable on the ball who can lure out 1-2 players who then create space for others. Mata used to do this with clever runs and good close control, but he has sadly lost his legs. Haaland and someone like Jack Grealish would help a lot in that regard. The former because hes a presence in the box and has the ability to turn away defenders on tight spaces and the latter because he thrives on running at players which helps a lot in creating cracks in deep defensive walls.

 

[MrVolley]

If you’re not backing Solskjaer now, you’re not paying enough attention. I’ve seen enough in the last two games to be fully confident about where we are going.

2 swallows does not make a summer.
We were poor against Spurs but much better yesterday.

Now here's the thing:

To become a top club, that competes for the league, requires consistency. This is the holy grail.

Let's take the scousers as an example, and I'm not talking about now. I'm talking about their numerous false dawns. Liverpool often beat any of the top teams handsomely, but then often followed this up with poor performances in other games that they expected to win.

2 matches does not make a meaningful trend. Not much can be extrapolated. 2 seasons are required as a minimum before I say "we're back"

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

That's Ole's fault for selling 2 international footballers in Herrera and Fellaini and not replacing them. If Ole was desperate enough to keep Herrera we would have offered him a new improved contract.

Here we go blaming Ole again with nonsense logic.

Let’s think first before jump into conclusion shall we. We got 3 midfield injured at the same time. 3 out of 4 option for midfield 2. Why do we need more than 4 for just 2 spots?

Very rarely to see 3 midfields injured at the same time. Chelsea on the other hand only got Kante injured. Only one not three!

 

[sugar_kane]

2 swallows does not make a summer.
We were poor against Spurs but much better yesterday.

Now here's the thing:

To become a top club, that competes for the league, requires consistency. This is the holy grail.

Let's take the scousers as an example, and I'm not talking about now. I'm talking about their numerous false dawns. Liverpool often beat any of the top teams handsomely, but then often followed this up with poor performances in other games that they expected to win.

2 matches does not make a meaningful trend. Not much can be extrapolated. 2 seasons are required as a minimum before I say "we're back"

Eh? Did you even watch the Spurs game? We were superb.

 

[The Siege]

His game management is extremely juvenile sometimes. The last half hour of every game against a top side, we look like we're going to get destroyed.
Against lesser sides, the games where we can't pretend we're underdogs and hence generate less natural motivation, we still have no idea what to do when a team sets up to hit us on the counter.

Last night was a fantastic win, absolutely no question. But if we're here to appreciate tactical nuance, I'm not really sure which wheel he's invented here.

 

[Volumiza]

Whether or not we can see a plan is one thing, what we can finally see is a team with a shape and purpose! Regardless of yesterday’s result being against City (that just made it better) it was great to see us actually playing some fast and attacking football, cutting through a team with great counter attacking football and then being able to hang on and remain solid to see it through. Really enjoyable stuff.