Do you see the plan yet?

[ReddBalls]

But we need to see how he manages to get the players to consistently break down teams who play with a low defensive block.Giggsey feels that when Pogba gets back,we will find it easier to break teams down...But I think it’s more than Pogba,the manager has to coach and train the players to be play in a very specific way to break down these teams.Plus we also have to start seeing greater consistency in performances from this team before we can fully get behind the managers “project”...Ole deserves time until the end of the season at least,there’s no doubt about that...

Goals scored in the last 7 games in the prem:

Norwich 3
Bournemouth 0
Brighton 3
Sheffield United 3
Aston Villa 2
Spurs 2
City 2

With the exception of Bournemouth (who don't park the bus), the problem has not been scoring goals. I'd say they are figuring it out. Let's see if they can keep it up.

 

[sunama]

If you’re not backing Solskjaer now, you’re not paying enough attention. I’ve seen enough in the last two games to be fully confident about where we are going.

So you are basing your entire support for Ole, on 2 games?
Are you serious or was this a joke/sarcastic post?

 

[sunama]

LVG didn't play the same way as Ole but he certainly got results against the top 6. Jose was average though, only got 8 wins in 26 games and lost 10 of them. We won't talk about Moyes...

Against the top 6 Moyes was pathetic.
But generally, against all team, Moyes was better than Ole.
For me, since SAF retired, I would order the managers as follows (best at the top)
Jose
LVG
Moyes
Ole

Now, if Ole stays, he could learn his job and improve, but at this time, I would place him as bottom of the pile.

 

[Irwin99]

People mentioning villa and Sheffield as evidence that we can break teams down is not quite accurate in my opinion as both those teams actually attacked us pretty well and aggressively. Teams like Norwich and Brighton (I think it was) were also pretty reckless against us and paid the price. It’s more against teams like Palace and Wolves and Newcastle that we really struggled against. I felt those teams handled us pretty well sitting back and denying us space to run into.

 

[RedSky]

Against the top 6 Moyes was pathetic.
But generally, against all team, Moyes was better than Ole.
For me, since SAF retired, I would order the managers as follows (best at the top)
Jose
LVG
Moyes
Ole

Now, if Ole stays, he could learn his job and improve, but at this time, I would place him as bottom of the pile.

Not for me.

Moyes did nothing but dismantle and destroy what we had. He had a much better team back then than we do now. He removed loads of players and coaching staff but barely added to it. Points wise they're pretty much identical, both with 18 PL wins, Moyes with more defeats in less games. Both with pretty much identical goals for and goals against.

Ole got a pretty shitty hand by having lots of players pissed off and wanting to leave (Moyes didn't have that). Players Ole has brought in have done well, Moyes brought in Fellaini and Mata both players who were ok to average at United. Moyes had no idea how to beat top teams, which means he wasn't qualified at all to be United Manager. Ole can get results against the top teams, he's got a much better record than Jose for example, he just has issues finding consistency in a very young squad. It happens.

Moyes longest run of unbeaten PL games = 7
Oles longest run of unbeaten PL games = 12

Moyes = 6 homes losses
Ole = 3 home losses

Spoiler: Moyes Losses

Liverpool	Away	1-0
Manchester City	Away	4-1
West Brom	Home	1-2
Everton	Home	1-0
Newcastle	Home	1-0
Tottenham	Home	1-2
Chelsea	Away	1-3
Stoke	Away	1-2
Manchester City	Home	0-3
Liverpool	Home	0-3
Everton	Away	2-0

Spoiler: Ole Losses

Arsenal	Away	2-0
Manchester City	Home	0-2
Wolves	Away	2-1
Everton	Away	4-0
Cardiff	Home	0-2
Crystal Palace	Home	1-2
West Ham	Away	2-0
Newcastle	Away	1-0
Bournemouth	Away	1-0

 

[zenith]

There is a plan and ole is certainly getting better at executing it. Beating Jose and pep within a week has certainly bought him credit till at least the end of the season.

I really really hope that we don't get too many first team injuries for the next few months as it'll be fascinating to see how ole plays with a full strength 11 versus a range of opponents.

His game management skills and tactics will be better judged if he gets to play with his first choice team consistently.

 

[ReddBalls]

People mentioning villa and Sheffield as evidence that we can break teams down is not quite accurate in my opinion as both those teams actually attacked us pretty well and aggressively. Teams like Norwich and Brighton (I think it was) were also pretty reckless against us and paid the price. It’s more against teams like Palace and Wolves and Newcastle that we really struggled against. I felt those teams handled us pretty well sitting back and denying us space to run into.

After the the game between Sheffield United and Manchester United, the latter had scored 1/4th of all the goals the former had conceded in 13 games. I'd say they're pretty good at shutting teams out. It is not only United who have struggled against the Newcastle, Palace and Wolves this season.

But you have a fair point. On the other hand, United have struggled to regularly score more than one goal for quite some time, and scoring more than two goals a game since the first international break suggests they are better at breaking teams down now, than before the first international break when they met Palace, Wolves and Newcastle.

 

[ReddBalls]

Not for me.

Moyes did nothing but dismantle and destroy what we had. He had a much better team back then than we do now. He removed loads of players and coaching staff but barely added to it. Points wise they're pretty much identical, both with 18 PL wins, Moyes with more defeats in less games. Both with pretty much identical goals for and goals against.

Ole got a pretty shitty hand by having lots of players pissed off and wanting to leave (Moyes didn't have that). Players Ole has brought in have done well, Moyes brought in Fellaini and Mata both players who were ok to average at United. Moyes had no idea how to beat top teams, which means he wasn't qualified at all to be United Manager. Ole can get results against the top teams, he's got a much better record than Jose for example, he just has issues finding consistency in a very young squad. It happens.

Moyes longest run of unbeaten PL games = 7
Oles longest run of unbeaten PL games = 12

Moyes = 6 homes losses
Ole = 3 home losses

Spoiler: Moyes Losses

Liverpool	Away	1-0
Manchester City	Away	4-1
West Brom	Home	1-2
Everton	Home	1-0
Newcastle	Home	1-0
Tottenham	Home	1-2
Chelsea	Away	1-3
Stoke	Away	1-2
Manchester City	Home	0-3
Liverpool	Home	0-3
Everton	Away	2-0

Spoiler: Ole Losses

Arsenal	Away	2-0
Manchester City	Home	0-2
Wolves	Away	2-1
Everton	Away	4-0
Cardiff	Home	0-2
Crystal Palace	Home	1-2
West Ham	Away	2-0
Newcastle	Away	1-0
Bournemouth	Away	1-0

Good post!

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

If you’re not backing Solskjaer now, you’re not paying enough attention. I’ve seen enough in the last two games to be fully confident about where we are going.

And whats the plan then? Counter attack against everyone? I really like that it works against the big sides because the systems they play now leave a lot of space in behind the two central midfielders when the other side has the ball - we can hurt teams with that. But not everyone plays that way. I would also suggest it is less easy to pull off on smaller pitches. If this is our plan then we will have a lot of draws away from home in the future against mediocre teams.

 

[Judas]

I think Ole has given me enough moments that I'll cherish to put him ahead of Moyes at this point.

 

[Hughie77]

The plan's been obvious since the summer and too see it through means enduring the short term pain for the long term gain.

Problem is too many can't handle hard times and prefer the throw the towel in

Agree, I'm not a fan of giving Ole the job, I still not convinced , but you can see where he's going it's going to be up and down with performances, because ages of most players, I can forgive it with them, I can't with the more senior ones. We get a decent window in Jan and summer then it should see more consistent results. I agree many can't handle hard times, it happens to the best, and it is with UTD so far, I've said patience is needed more than ever in this period .

 

[MrBest]

After taking time to think, we probably would have done a lot better with Mctominay in the side against Sheffield United and Aston Villa. Injuries have really been our downfall at times. It is Ole fault for not investing but as others have said, Everton and the next few games will be the true test. We are starting to keep the ball better and a McFred pairing is really key to that. If we win at least 3 of the next 4, then I see the plan. If we struggle by getting draws, then Ole out continues. He has had enough time, 12 months is a while in football to have a philosophy.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

Last week has been massive and I am still on a high.
That being said there is no reason to get carried away. I still do not see another plan than keep the defense tight and hit them on the break when they leave space for our fast attacking players.
This is something we are very good at and probably makes us a team that each of the top teams hate to play against.
However, this will not be enough in the long run. We might be able to beat City and Spurs and maybe Barca, Bayern, Juve etc. but this is not what leads to success.
What is the plan to break the majority of the PL teams down?

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Goals scored in the last 7 games in the prem:

Norwich 3
Bournemouth 0
Brighton 3
Sheffield United 3
Aston Villa 2
Spurs 2
City 2

With the exception of Bournemouth (who don't park the bus), the problem has not been scoring goals. I'd say they are figuring it out. Let's see if they can keep it up.

My bad,I should have said “get results consistently” against the smaller teams,not break them down...

 

[b82REZ]

Last week has been massive and I am still on a high.
That being said there is no reason to get carried away. I still do not see another plan than keep the defense tight and hit them on the break when they leave space for our fast attacking players.
This is something we are very good at and probably makes us a team that each of the top teams hate to play against.
However, this will not be enough in the long run. We might be able to beat City and Spurs and maybe Barca, Bayern, Juve etc. but this is not what leads to success.
What is the plan to break the majority of the PL teams down?

This sums it up perfectly. I'm absolutely buzzing with the results over the last week, but to claim the plan is now clear for all to see is ludicrous.

 

[wolvored]

If we can get a top passer and shooter like De Bruyne this would make all the difference to breaking the 'lesser' teams down. Someone who can put a quick accurate through ball onto the attackers foot, or hit one in from 25 yards out. We still have too many sideways or risky passes with no thought to them, which either go to the opposition or get played too long. We need to stop the 60-70 yard passes to Rashford/James/Martial when they are on their own up front marked by 3-4 defenders. Simple waste of a ball. None are target men.
Maybe the plan by Ole is to play counter attacking until he has the correct players to implement change.

 

[Foxbatt]

I remember saf saying that it's not the top teams you need to beat but everyone else. We could lose against Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea those days and still win the PL.

 

[Sandikan]

Against the top 6 Moyes was pathetic.
But generally, against all team, Moyes was better than Ole.
For me, since SAF retired, I would order the managers as follows (best at the top)
Jose
LVG
Moyes
Ole

Now, if Ole stays, he could learn his job and improve, but at this time, I would place him as bottom of the pile.

How are you rating moyes higher?! Look at what he picked up versus ole?
When did we play tottenham and city off the pitch back to back under Moyes?

 

[Thiagoal]

If we can get a top passer and shooter like De Bruyne this would make all the difference to breaking the 'lesser' teams down. Someone who can put a quick accurate through ball onto the attackers foot, or hit one in from 25 yards out. We still have too many sideways or risky passes with no thought to them, which either go to the opposition or get played too long. We need to stop the 60-70 yard passes to Rashford/James/Martial when they are on their own up front marked by 3-4 defenders. Simple waste of a ball. None are target men.
Maybe the plan by Ole is to play counter attacking until he has the correct players to implement change.

If we had a De Bruyne (actually Pogba can also do the above) we would also need players that can consistently get on the end of the passes/ crosses! A poacher is equally as important

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/harry-maguire-signed.447781/post-24355857

In my first post on this forum back in July I stated that there was a plan. I had a feeling and hope based on Ole’s Molde, his history at United and performances last season that his plan was a neo-Fergian team: fast, direct, unbreakable defense, young and fearless players.

Turned out I predicted many things right including Fred’s contribution in big matches. Not because I’m genius, because there was a common logic in every Ole’s action. Every preseason game I commented on tactics and set up. Things started to develop long ago. Now watching an analysis from Tim Sherwood who “sees identity”.

Then I realized that a lot of people here: 1) either are concerned only the with result, and/or 2) wildly affected by media, and/or 3) don’t control their emotions and/or 4) unfoundedly think they are smarter than others AND 5) native English speakers who can teach me a lot of words related to conditions of sorrow, misery, despising, envy, and impatience. So, I just kept silence and learned a lot of words related to gloating and shaming.

Hope to show off my new vocabulary when we get into top 4. Please God, save us from injuries.

 

[tomaldinho1]

There is a plan and ole is certainly getting better at executing it. Beating Jose and pep within a week has certainly bought him credit till at least the end of the season.

I really really hope that we don't get too many first team injuries for the next few months as it'll be fascinating to see how ole plays with a full strength 11 versus a range of opponents.

His game management skills and tactics will be better judged if he gets to play with his first choice team consistently.

This is so optimistic. If we lose the next two games, you think people will be chilled because he beat some high calibre managers? We have a nice run now until Liverpool away that Ole has to take advantage of - we under performed in 'easier' games and over performed in the tougher fixtures, if we revert to type now and struggle through these next fixtures I think most will want him gone before the season ends. However, if we can put together a little run now and, please god, some consistency the pressure will ease.

 

[ReddBalls]

This is so optimistic. If we lose the next two games, you think people will be chilled because he beat some high calibre managers? We have a nice run now until Liverpool away that Ole has to take advantage of - we under performed in 'easier' games and over performed in the tougher fixtures, if we revert to type now and struggle through these next fixtures I think most will want him gone before the season ends. However, if we can put together a little run now and, please god, some consistency the pressure will ease.

The team should obviously win more than they lose in the games ahead now that the squad is more or less injury free. There will be blips, though, given it's a young squad.

 

[Gator Nate]

If it was that easy, City would not have been champions over the last 2 seasons!

Ole's philosophy is quite clear to be honest - and it's as close to the United way as I've seen since 2008-09. Fast, one touch football. Deadly on transitions (not only in counter attack but all forms of transition), high press in first phase of defense, and low block in second phase.

As a fan base we've been served such poor and contrasting football 'philosophies' since SAF left that we don't recognize this. Do you prefer LVGs safe passing, two touch, football, or Jose's reactive approach to games?

Thanks for putting into words what I've been trying to say.

Probably because I'm a coach at heart, I have been watching what they do on the field in spite of failures. For example, not THAT they missed a pass, but WHY was that pass missed? We are not JUST a counter attacking side. Just this past week, we took the game to City for the first 30 minutes, not just on counter attacks. I think a lot of the side-to-side and backwards passing they've been doing is mental throwbacks to Jose that Ole has been working out of their systems. About 6 or 7 games in, I started seeing missed forward passes that should have had a target and clearly didn't. After a few more games, the target was coming into the picture, but missing the pass. The last few games, they're on point. Fred, McTominay, and Lingard have developed a good, functional relationship with the front three of Rashford, Martial, and James.

Defensive discipline is what has cost us points, and none so much as the Sheffield United game.

I really do believe the next five games will go well as long as no one gets hurt. We just need to put 4 or 5 on the board so the defensive lapses won't cost us.

 

[AshRK]

Against the top 6 Moyes was pathetic.
But generally, against all team, Moyes was better than Ole.
For me, since SAF retired, I would order the managers as follows (best at the top)
Jose
LVG
Moyes
Ole

Now, if Ole stays, he could learn his job and improve, but at this time, I would place him as bottom of the pile.

Let us not forget Moyes took over a squad that had won the league. For me he has to be the worst. He did a piss poor job who was completely out of depth. Atleast with Ole he has some plan and there have been games this season where we looked to play with a plan.

 

[Red_scot1981]

If you’re not backing Solskjaer now, you’re not paying enough attention. I’ve seen enough in the last two games to be fully confident about where we are going.

I think the biggest issue is consistency. But mctominay in midfield is turning into a proper player. Fred is coming into a game and pogba due back. Another couple of signings required. Performances from front three against sheff United were atrocious and they need to be made aware that's not acceptable. But consistency will hopefully come.

 

[sglowrider]

Early part of the video is the analysis on the City match and how we set up:

 

[The Boy]

What about take a consideration how we won against Norwich & Brighton. They also a team who defend deep. Beside, our most creative player is still injured, and he can be the key to unlock those teams.

Brighton do not defend deep under Potter, they did last season under Hughton but our tactics have transformed under Potter, our game at OT was one our worse performances of the season, you deserved the result, but you didnt get by unlocking a low block, that's not how we play.

We scored 5 against Sheffield United and Aston Villa. Which means that we know how to score, we concede too much, and that's something we seem to be fixing in the last 2 games... agreed to wait but the feeling is good.

The game against Sheffield Utd was lost by Ole's substitution with 8 or so minutes to go when he brought on Tuanzebe as a holding midfielder for Martial. Tuanzebe immediately reverted to his instinct and dropped back making 5 across the back and confusing the set up. It also sends a very clear message to players on both teams that you are now going to stop attacking and sit back, inviting pressure. Yes do this with 2 minutes to go to waste time, but this was a mistake, but one Ole probably learnt from and wont happen again.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Brighton do not defend deep under Potter, they did last season under Hughton but our tactics have transformed under Potter, our game at OT was one our worse performances of the season, you deserved the result, but you didnt get by unlocking a low block, that's not how we play.

If that's the case then you are being biased here. Just like Brighton, teams that we didn't get the result such as Aston Villa, West Ham & Sheffield are not teams who defend deep, we didn't get the result against them not because we couldn't unlock the low block but because we had injuries on some of our important players.

Teams like Wolves, Palace & Newcastle are defending deep but Man City & Spurs also couldn't get the result against some of those teams which you must give credit to those teams who are capable to give trouble to any other top 6 teams not only us.

 

[The Boy]

If that's the case then you are being biased here. Just like Brighton, teams that we didn't get the result such as Aston Villa, West Ham & Sheffield are not teams who defend deep, we didn't get the result against them not because we couldn't unlock the low block but because we had injuries on some of our important players.

Teams like Wolves, Palace & Newcastle are defending deep but Man City & Spurs also couldn't get the result against some of those teams which you must give credit to those teams who are capable to give trouble to any other top 6 teams not only us.

What's bias about correcting you on the style my team play, congratulating you on a deserved result and saying it wasn't unlocking a low block? ... all facts not opinions.

Sometimes people just answer posts to argue, this is a good example of that! You were wrong to use Brighton as an example of a team that defends deep.

 

[Paxi]

I saw it months ago, then again im not a thick plastic git

You were saying it was only pre-season when during Jose's last summer. Didn't hear piping up much after that? It's a pity you can see ignored members posts on the new website. The curiosity of your selfrightouts, condescending digs get the better of me, unfortunately for me?

 

[Denis' cuff]

Ole and his playing style (or results, for that matter) shouldn’t be judged on the hand he has been dealt. He will get another transfer window in the summer (can’t really see any significant signings in January) to add to 3x excellent recruits from last summer.

 

[Paxi]

They should change your name back to Ramscock.

Is there more condescending, unlikeable poster on the caf?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

What's bias about correcting you on the style my team play, congratulating you on a deserved result and saying it wasn't unlocking a low block? ... all facts not opinions.

Sometimes people just answer posts to argue, this is a good example of that! You were wrong to use Brighton as an example of a team that defends deep.

You are wrong on many things here about my opinion, I don't deny that Brighton doesn't defend deep but there are not many low block in EPL right now and when we do face them, those teams managed to steal points even against team like City & Spurs.

It's biased because you are using that as an excuse of not getting the result but in actual fact is that we don't get the result against any teams not just against low block.

Jose Mourinho team when they are playing away, he's a manager who likes his team to defend deep and guess what, we beat them 2-1. Why are you referring to our results that we didn't get a win when most of them are not even low block type of team. But when we do against Jose's team you don't give credit.

If Jose's team isn't included then what low block teams are you referring to? A lesser team? Well we beat Brighton & Norwich, and now you used an excuse they don't defend deep. WHU, Aston Villa, Sheffield United are also just like Brighton, they don't defend deep! The issue is that we had injuries on some of our important players.

 

[The Boy]

What about take a consideration how we won against Norwich & Brighton. They also a team who defend deep. Beside, our most creative player is still injured, and he can be the key to unlock those teams.

You saying Brighton defend deep

Brighton do not defend deep under Potter, they did last season under Hughton but our tactics have transformed under Potter, our game at OT was one our worse performances of the season, you deserved the result, but you didnt get by unlocking a low block, that's not how we play.

Me saying you're wrong

You are wrong on many things here about my opinion, I don't deny that Brighton doesn't defend deep but there are not many low block in EPL right now and when we do face them, those teams managed to steal points even against team like City & Spurs.

You now saying the complete opposite

It's biased because you are using that as an excuse of not getting the result but in actual fact is that we don't get the result against any teams not just against low block.

Jose Mourinho team when they are playing away, he's a manager who likes his team to defend deep and guess what, we beat them 2-1. Why are you referring to our results that we didn't get a win when most of them are not even low block type of team. But when we do against Jose's team you don't give credit.

If Jose's team isn't included then what low block teams are you referring to? A lesser team? Well we beat Brighton & Norwich, and now you used an excuse they don't defend deep. WHU, Aston Villa, Sheffield United are also just like Brighton, they don't defend deep! The issue is that we had injuries on some of our important players.

I'm not sure if you realised from my posts but I am a Brighton supporter (I did refer to them as my team) I am not interested in making excuses, I was just correcting a post of yours saying Brighton was a team that defended deep, that's factually wrong.

Now you are arguing all sorts of stuff that I couldn't give a monkeys about!

Brighton are a very bad example to give of a team that defends deep, that's it.

 

[Bobcat]

People mentioning villa and Sheffield as evidence that we can break teams down is not quite accurate in my opinion as both those teams actually attacked us pretty well and aggressively. Teams like Norwich and Brighton (I think it was) were also pretty reckless against us and paid the price. It’s more against teams like Palace and Wolves and Newcastle that we really struggled against. I felt those teams handled us pretty well sitting back and denying us space to run into.

Well, we scored in two of those and should have scored more (missed pens) and several other good chances we failed to convert. Newcastle was no doubt a diabolical performance but i am pretty sure we pretty sure we missed some big chances there as well. IIRC it was in that game Maguire missed a free header from about 5 yards out

Palace game still hurts. And we were properly robbed there, both by bad luck and by a cnut ref who let them get away with pretty much everything. The problem has not been so much lack of goals vs low blocks (that too), but the main issue has been giving up leads. Liverpool, Arsenal, Soton, Wolves, Sheffield and Villa we all ended up drawing after taking the lead.

The most annoying thing is that taking the lead should play right into our hands as it forces the opponent to take more risk and move up the field, thus opening them up for counters, but so far we have been unable to capitalize on that in many games. That's why the Spurs and City games are a big deal imo. Spurs are in great form now under Jose and no one is better than City at breaking down defenses and we held firm (for the most part)

What we need to do is go for no 2 when we take the lead, something we failed to do in those other games. Score first and then punish them on the counter and its very likely you will see heads drop at the other team

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

You saying Brighton defend deep


Me saying you're wrong



You now saying the complete opposite



I'm not sure if you realised from my posts but I am a Brighton supporter (I did refer to them as my team) I am not interested in making excuses, I was just correcting a post of yours saying Brighton was a team that defended deep, that's factually wrong.

Now you are arguing all sorts of stuff that I couldn't give a monkeys about!

Brighton are a very bad example to give of a team that defends deep, that's it.

I did tell you that you are right about the Brighton one and that's why I don't deny it but that's not the "wrong about many things on my opinion" or "the biased" part that I was referring to.

And my apologise since it was my mistake that I thought you were the original poster who was talking about Manchester United only failed to get the result against the team who defend deep which I called it as biased since it's just an excuse. After re-read the post again you are a different poster and only referring to the Brighton game.

 

[The Boy]

I did tell you that you are right about the Brighton one and that's why I don't deny it but that's not the "wrong about many things on my opinion" or "the biased" part that I was referring to.

And my apologise since it was my mistake that I thought you were the original poster who was talking about Manchester United only failed to get the result against the team who defend deep which I called it as biased since it's just an excuse. After re-read the post again you are a different poster and only referring to the Brighton game.

 

[GaryLifo]

Ole need to figure out how to create against lesser defensive teams, he clearly knows how to set up a counter. If we manage that we will be fine but the last year shows us he didnt figure it out and the next 4 games are vital if he is OUT or IN

Create against lesser teams you say?

Since the liverpool game....

3 goals against Norwich, Brighton, Sheffield and a rubbish European side. 2 goals against Villa.

We've found our scoring boots against lesser sides, our problem has been conceding against lesser teams.

We also had winning positions against Wolves, Arsenal and Southampton chucked away because we failed to defend properly.

The recent two game defensive improvement has been, imo, because we got McTominay and Fred back together.

 

[rpg]

After last 2 games, there is no doubt that Ole is next Fergie and Guardiola combined while Rashford is next Ronaldo and Messi combined.

 

[adexkola]

I see the vision OP