I think coach Klopp is fantastic and wish he was at our franchise. But since he isn’t, I have to say I actually enjoy watching Liverpool play (but not win).
Does Klopp get too much praise for his trophy count at liverpool
- Thread starter Trex
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Delete this and come back to it when he hopefully ends up empty-handed in may
Klopp - 13 trophies + Won the Quadruple.
No.
And I don't really appreciate the timing of this thread. We make the 20th team look like the 1st placed team and Liverpool make the 1st placed team look like the 20th team
And I don't really appreciate the timing of this thread. We make the 20th team look like the 1st placed team and Liverpool make the 1st placed team look like the 20th team
Scary manager. I wonder where he go next?
Real Madrid + Klopp, that would be interesting.
Real Madrid + Klopp, that would be interesting.
Haha sorry it was late and I was tired.
If anything he doesn’t get enough praise.
He’s managed them for 7 years. Can’t exactly criticise him for 3 years he didn’t manage them!
7, 10, 32 years, what's the difference?
In the cold light of day, when the eggs have reached boiling point, when Jurgen finally decides his teeth have been whitened enough, we'll be left with one undeniable truth; Liverpool and Mr Klopp have claimed only one league title in over 3 decades of football. Thus, great of the game he is not.
SAF, a great of the game in the truest sense of the word, claimed like 45 titles within that time. That's the difference.
Same here, it’s quite pathetic. Throw in a thread about doping too and it’s the whole nine yards. Liverpool are unfortunately several levels above United and have been for many years, probably will be for the next 5-10 years too.
For Mourinho it was three seasons, if you exclude his first two stints which were incomplete.
Agree Klopp is fantastic, but we probably personify success to much and forget also Klopp is part of a team and a system which Liverpool has developed regardless of Klopp. The manager is probably the last critical piece which has to be right in order to get success. “You need a good care before you hire a good driver”.
Very true. The way they are running things there these days. Envious.
Only Trent has come through the youth team, and the rest he has signed. And he’s broken their transfer record a few times.
They do well in their famous “net spend league” because LFC are fantastic at getting good money for deadwood. I’m pretty sure Klopp doesn’t do this negotiating.
That said, he is obviously a very good coach who probably should (and will) have more trophies to his name.
He owes Bournemouth alot.
He's the best manager in the world for me. When Pep leaves city they will carry on winning things, but when Klopp leaves Liverpool they will fall a few levels. That says it all for me.
If anything he doesn't get enough. He basically took an Europa League team and made it the best or second best in the world in 4 or 5 years.
He signed Salah, Mané and Van Dijk for about the amount he sold Benteke and Coutinho. All three were in the top 5 of the Ballon D'or in 2019, 4 years after Klopp signed. That's bordering on genius.
If he had solved the GK problem (Mignolet, Karius, etc) sooner, he would have won them even more trophies.
He signed Salah, Mané and Van Dijk for about the amount he sold Benteke and Coutinho. All three were in the top 5 of the Ballon D'or in 2019, 4 years after Klopp signed. That's bordering on genius.
If he had solved the GK problem (Mignolet, Karius, etc) sooner, he would have won them even more trophies.
What question are you actually asking? Why aren't Ancelotti and Zidane in this conversation as well? Clearly Klopp is not the most successful manager based on the actual number of trophies won or the manner in which they have been won. Others have won far more and on a grander scale. Klopp isn't even the most successful Liverpool manager, as Bob Paisley won 14 major trophies including three European Cups (1977 and 1978 were won back to back). So let's not compare Klopp with the likes of those who have won two or three times the number of prizes that he has because that would be daft.
However, if you are talking about management capability, then that is a different measure of success. I happen to believe that in terms of player development, Klopp is one of the best that we have seen. Time after time, operating on smaller budget (relative to his near competitors) he has picked up decent, unsung or discarded talent and turned them into world beaters. Salah, Mane, Robertson, Fabinho and Jota are examples of this. Even the likes of Van Dijk who I thought was wildly over-priced at £75m is probably the best bit of business Liverpool have done since Luis Surez. But even the likes of Diaz and Konate are now looking like bargains for their respective price tags of £35m and £40m. Klopp has shown himself to be a master of recruitment and player transformation. Clearly Klopp does not always get it right, but neither did Sir Alex.
To do that and go toe to toe with Pep who has an open cheque book, is no mean achievement. To that extent therefore I would rate Klopp as a better developer of talent than Pep and Mourinho. Although, I think SAF mis still the best in my view.
This
While you're not wrong here on what generally happens, but in this case it's different.
The driver/manager inherited a pile of garbage squad imho. Don't think the club had built much of a platform at all before he entered. So he was one of the initial pieces of the puzzle not the final piece.
He's very much one of the central figures at improving the vehicle and running it smoothly.
Klopp is at the centre of this remarkable ascension. The way Klopp gets the best out of players(who have never been at that level before) is not talked about enough.
He has done such a tremendous job it's unreal. He has systematically revived their club in the "right way". This is what improvement of the infamous phrase 'club culture' actually looks like.
Sometimes hiring a top manager is one of the first steps of a rebuild.
Seeing as you edited this after I replied I'll deal with it again. Good effort though.mother of meltdowns. I stated a fairly commonly held opinion about guardiola and you started demanding 'proof' which again, can't be provided for an opinion on a hypothetical situation. I steered clear of conversing with you, well, for exactly this reason. You're incredibly hyperbolic and defensive to any criticism of city's murderous owners.
Im sorry to have mistaken you for Irish, but im Irish and you seem to be trying to tie me to some anti Irish sentiment which is very weird. I was sure you once said you were Irish so it was a simple mix up, but in any case the nationality of the countless murderous thugs harboured by UAE shouldn't really matter. Again, its probably best not to go on because i find the mental gymnastics and rationalising pretty hard to stomach where dubai/abu Dhabi is concerned and its a detour too far which i instigated and should stop for sake of the thread.
I gave this reply to your initial querying
'Like guardiola, he's been successful in every job he's had. But the challenge at Liverpool was far greater than anything guardiola has ever taken on and Guardiola has no track record of rebuilding a club as klopp has done. Both great managers but one needs a particular set of circumstances to even be interested in a job. Give Klopp guardiolas billions and all the murky dealings of Abu Dhabi and he'd undoubtedly continue his success. i don't believe guardiola could have done it.'
All fairly innocuous really.
Im sorry that my opinion that guardiola couldn't do what klopp did at Liverpool aggravates you so much. But im only one little person on the Internet and you can ignore me
I've been saying Cities owners need replacing and people like them shouldn't be in football.
Forgive me for this but... you tried to tie me a drug cartel by saying "your" nationality, which was wrong but that's fine. Were I discussing an English group with another English man, I would say "our" countrymen. I wonder why you didn't? One can only feel it was to disassociate yourself and associate me. Therefor it was normal of me to presume you weren't Irish right? The nationality of the Kinahins has nothing to do with them being pieces of shit nor the shitbags in Abu Dhabi harboring them. You brought nationality into it not me. Tell me what their nationality had to do with a question about Klopp?
You follow it up again with lying about my views on Abu Dhabi which again I am happy to admit I had wrong a couple of years ago. You also consistently try to tie my views on FFP etc.. to "abu dhabis murderous regime". That's why I ask you for a pre-takeover post from you about human rights in the middle East. You obviously care a lot about human rights over there, I presume its been a big thing to you long before City started winning trophies but I suspect you activism will die when Cities owners are gone.
But anyway back on topic: Again, Klopp being successful at Liverpool doesn't mean success at City. We're not discussing Guardiola's track record, we're discussing why Klopp would be successful at City. Where is Klopps "track record" (you like beating that drum and whats good for the goose is good for the gander and all that) of winning consistently with the best team? Aside from "he rebuilt Liverpool" which has nothing really on winning with the best team consistently like is required at a club like City, Real, PSG. Moyes rebuilt Everton, how'd he do when he managed the champions? Different levels to Klopp of course.
Its good to see you kind of tackled my point eventually even if it was to edit a post I had already replied to (sneaky but I've had someone reply to one of mine while editing before so it happens and maybe hadn't any ill intent). And even then you rambled about Pep when we're talking about Klopp you're making half a point I suppose.
So to sum up, you lied about me personally twice in this one reply. Tried to tie me to some drug cartel to score some cheap points that were nothing to do with what was being discussed, then you edited the post after I had replied, you have to see why I took issue and then why I addressed your post again right? At best its a completely wrong take and at worst disingenuous and lies.
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He’s a great manager no doubt but I’ll be very happy if he fecks off in a year or 2 having only won a single PL and CL.
Its been made clear to me by mods that offending your sensitivity about owners risks me being banned. You're a literal pawn in a sportswashing game and even this post proves it further with your whataboutisms. I believed that emphasising the brutality of your owners with a local example, on the reasonable assumption that you were Irish, might demonstrate that hating Mansour isn't about sport. But you followed it up and did his bidding anyway by saying its because 'my team is losing'. Trust me, teenage boys getting videotaped being hacked to death in Ireland and our streets rampant with drugs from the scum UAE harbours isn't about sport. But you're a good pawn doing exactly what owning city is designed to do, delegitimising criticism of them.
'But we both know you spout this stuff because your team are losing at football' Mind blowing. Like a propagandists dream
Move on, talk to somebody else,and continue your own rationalising every time you cheerlead for Mr Mansours franchise
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While I agree he's the best manager in the world but I disagree they'll fall a way from title challengers. I don't think people realize just how good their transfer committee is and how good they are behind the scenes. No doubt Jurgen is phenomenal but will they really fall that far without him...
I completely agree with you about our owners so are we both sport washed? Thats my point, you constantly accuse me of defending their human rights record when I don't.
Quick couple of posts by me I remembered off my head about our owners...
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/if-...hing-supporting-football.462067/post-27077971
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/manchester-city-reports-revenue-of-£570m-for-20-21-a-season-without-fans.468188/post-28693487
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/manchester-city-reports-revenue-of-£570m-for-20-21-a-season-without-fans.468188/post-28693675
I want Abu Dhabi out of football but I want consistency across the board, I want sponsors like Uniteds Saudi Telecom, Commercial Bank of Qatar and deal with Gulf Oil Middle East (while Gulf Oil is American, the middles East section is tied to Saudi and UAE government) gone too. But I want it done proper. I want hypocrisy gone. If we remove all human rights abusers, that includes tech firms even some of the gear manufacturers like Reebok and Nike. If we want football clean we want it clean for everyone.
Thats why I call these posts out. I agree everywhere has shit going on Ireland is no exception I've lived here 30 years and love the place.
The your team is losing piece is valid because I've not seen you question United's sponsors or United for them. I mean if its post City takeover you learned how bad shit is over there that's fair too just say so. I mean till 2019 I was probably too naive to actually look into how bad it really was or in truth likely buried my head in the sand.
But you need to condemn it across the board, not just the owners, the sponsors, the boot makers etc... Are Nike somehow better for example with their track record or Apple.
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The season before they finished on 67 points comprehensively behind Villareal let alone Real Madrid.
Tell someone in 2008 Messi would have made the conversation with Pele/Maradona while Iniesta and Xavi (24 and 28 respectively at the time so weren't exactly in their first flushes of youth) would become the two best midfielders of their generation and you would have had the police called on you.
Until we win some silverware we’re not really in a position to criticise Klopp or any other of the top 3 clubs.
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Not at all actually Messi has been hyped up as future best player of the world, since around 03-04, in fact when Ronaldinho was winning B’allon d’ors he was famously saying he wasn’t even the best in the club, this was around 06(Messi was) by 08 Messi had a hype only seen by R9 as a young player who could be a genuine future GOAT, no one who saw him would call the police on Maradona comments because he has been compared to him since he was 14-15 probably before.
I have a cool $100 waiting for anyone who can pull up an article or forum post from any time up to summer of 2008, predicting Barcelona's success under Guardiola in the subsequent years due to the fact that he had this loaded team.
I’m not sure, but one thing I do find when the discussion of Klopp comes up is people talk as though he’s operated on a shoe string budget, which I don’t really get at all.
One thing I think will be key for Liverpool post Klopp is that they now have full confidence in their transfer committee and their structure. I got the impression under Rodgers reign that there was a bit of a fight between the committee and the manager on who to buy, etc. You didn't have the mutual trust and confidence you now see with Klopp. Now that they have proven that it works, any manager that joins in the future will have to accept the way things are set up.
Unless you have the power to see the future, i don't see how you came to this conclusion.
I don't think it's unfair to say that City will continue winning things after Pep as they have so much money. The question is whether they will continue to be as dominant. That's pretty unlikely, I would say.
As for Liverpool, if FSG are still in charge and Klopp has put things in place that will outlast him (like Shankly, who he's often compared to) then they could continue to have success. But it's very difficult to predict what will happen when he leaves.
Klopp is by far the best manager in the world.
Pep is not too far behind but considering Klopp has single handedly turned Liverpool into one of the most entertaining, impressive, high energy, dominant teams in the world, bringing through players from their academy whilst signing low value players and turning them into excellent players is nothing short of incredible.
He will get his just rewards and unfortunately for us I think they will win the Quadruple this year.
Whilst Pep could be considered the best he simply hasn’t had a challenge anywhere near that Klopp did and even so his team is incredibly drab to watch compared to Liverpool.
Took me many years but this year I finally stopped being bitter about Liverpools success and simply accepted they did everything right. Time to the manager and backing, let’s hope ETH gets the same even if it takes 7 years.
Pep is not too far behind but considering Klopp has single handedly turned Liverpool into one of the most entertaining, impressive, high energy, dominant teams in the world, bringing through players from their academy whilst signing low value players and turning them into excellent players is nothing short of incredible.
He will get his just rewards and unfortunately for us I think they will win the Quadruple this year.
Whilst Pep could be considered the best he simply hasn’t had a challenge anywhere near that Klopp did and even so his team is incredibly drab to watch compared to Liverpool.
Took me many years but this year I finally stopped being bitter about Liverpools success and simply accepted they did everything right. Time to the manager and backing, let’s hope ETH gets the same even if it takes 7 years.
If he had the superior teams those managers had and the level of funding etc. He would of won similar amount. He's their level.
It’s really this simple. Guy has been slaying dragons his entire career. Top manager.
Not that straightforward.
His trademark style is inherently destructive, and unless you adapt, destructive styles usually get found out at the top level when most of your opponents come to park the bus for a draw. Basically what happened to Jose, and even early versions of Klopp before he implemented more positional play and technical midfielders.
It's totally different mastering that style vs mastering a dominating style of play like Guardiola, which is designed to beat 99% of the weaker teams in the league. Something which Poch is currently learning. Klopp knows this, which is why he's chosen his jobs carefully, and also been smart enough to get in coaches with knowledge of positional play.
If Pep had gone to Pool and Klopp to City, I think the trophy count would have still been similar. Maybe a few more for Klopp and maybe a few less for Pep, but in the same ballpark.
Different styles but a style that has shown to be hugely comsistent at the two big clubs he's been at. Teams have been parking the bus for the last 4 seasons. He has shown to consistently be the second best team in both leagues and if not for the team with vastly superior resources he would of had at least 4 more leagues that's just a fact. Its not like he hasn't been consistent with those teams. Both have been super consistent in leagues and Cup competitions. It's not like you can even say he's had any flukes. The only thing in his way has been teams with bigger budgets and better players.
This is just nonsense. Pep has only ever operated with the biggest budgets and squads.
Not really....he's up against a cheat-code side in Manchester City. Think how many trophies Liverpool would have won in any other era.
That's the thing....when people talk about 'bottlers' or judge managers only on trophies, they forget that a team doesn't operate in a vacuum and evaluating success is far more complex than just counting medals.
That's the thing....when people talk about 'bottlers' or judge managers only on trophies, they forget that a team doesn't operate in a vacuum and evaluating success is far more complex than just counting medals.