Dominoes draft: QF - Mazhar13/2mufc0 vs Pat_mustard

[Tuppet]

mazhar13/2mufc0

VS

pat_mustard

TACTIC

mazhar13/2mufc0​

Formation: 4-4-2 diamond

We have put together a versatile team with a strong spine from Picchi to Robson to Baggio.

Defence

The defence is marshalled by the Grande Inter defensive linchpin Armando Picchi, who is supported by Montero and World cup Winner Jérôme Boateng, which creates a tough core at the back. Whilst he does have experience in such a role, Boateng is not being tasked to play as a traditional RB, although he will support the right flank when the opportunity arises. His main role is to create a back 3 when we attack, which allows Paul Breitner more freedom to work his creative magic.

In goal is the second best Austrian keeper of all time Walter Zeman. With nicknames such as "Tiger" and "Panther", his catlike reflexes and athleticism made him a key component of Austria's second Wunderteam and the second-best Austrian goalkeeper behind Rudolph Hiden.

Midfield

The midfield consists of a fluid trio of Robson, Redondo and former Yugoslavian great Branko Oblak. Robson and Redondo provide the obvious star power, and Oblak is the enabler that knits the whole midfield together. With his superb engine, Oblak will be supporting Seeler and allowing him to do the damage in the final third as well as assisting Boateng in defence. On the left side of the midfield, Robbo will have some more freedom to get forward but, with his fantastic engine, also provide the defensive steel in the midfield. This midfield setup allows our star attackers Baggio and Seeler to attack with freedom and space. At the pivot will be the master architect Redondo, who will build our attacks and provide the link with the defence. With Redondo and Picchi, we have two fantastic long range passers who can initiate devastating counters getting the ball to Baggio, Sánchez and Seeler (more on them later).

Oblak is the player that will provide Robson and Redondo the platform to play their natural game and take over the midfield, and he's the player who can link up excellently with Baggio/Seeler and keep our attacks flowing in the opposition final third. With Redondo's silky smooth feet, Robson's all-action playing style, and Oblak's skillful yet altruistic playing style, we have a midfield that is ready to take on all comers.

Attack

Baggio and Seeler will have the freedom to roam around and occupy the areas where they can best hurt the opposition. We feel that restricting them to particular roles will limit their potential output and effectiveness, so with the solid platform that they already have, they do not need any more restrictive instructions. Having said that, both are comfortable receiving the ball in the flanks.

Seeler was not your typical target man; he was excellent at receiving the ball at his feet, demonstrating precise control of the ball and the awareness to link up with his teammates. This, combined with his strength, makes him tough to win the ball off of. Seeler often drifted out to the right when playing for West Germany in the 1966 and '70 World Cups whilst another forward played a more direct role (Held in '66, and Müller in '70).

To be the main striker up top who will frequently look to get on goal, we have Hugo Sánchez. He will combine with these two great attackers around him and relish the chances that they will create.
Hugo Sanchez Accomplishments:
- IFFHS: 26th-best player of the 20th century
- 4th-highest La Liga goalscorer of all time
- 6th-highest Real Madrid goalscorer of all time
- 5 Pichichis (1985, '86, '87, '88, '90)
- 1 European Golden Boot (1990)
- 2 Don Balons (1987, '90)
- FIFA 100
- 1982 FIFA XI

Overall, the front 3 is very fluid and able to interchange when necessary. Our inspiration comes from the AC Milan front 3 under Ancelotti, which had Kaká as the second-striker-cum-inside-left-forward (Baggio), Shevchenko as the complete forward who would occupy the inside right areas on occasion (Seeler), and Inzaghi as the main striker who would look to position himself for a goalscoring chance (Sánchez).

Summary of Advantages

• Balanced defence with an aggressive stopper, an intelligent sweeper, and a cultured ball-playing defender
• All-rounded midfield with a silky playmaker, all-action midfielder, and an energetic enabler
• Quick, hardworking players in Breitner and Oblak who are adept crossers and able to stretch the pitch
• X-Factor players (Robson, Redondo, Seeler, Baggio, Sánchez, Breitner) supported by a solid set of hardworking players (Oblak, Boateng, Montero, Picchi)
• 2 top-50 best players of all time according to IFFHS (Sánchez: 26, Seeler: 45)

TL;DR

The team is set up to be strong in the middle and unpredictable going forward. The aim is to be dynamic going forward by not setting up players into fixed roles. Seeler and Oblak are free to drift out to the right channel and stretch the opposition, whilst Baggio can do something similar in his free role with Breitner around to provide the width as well. Players like Baggio, Robson, Redondo, and Breitner provide the X-Factor in their game with their finesse, natural ability, energy, and determination, leaving the opposition with having to deal with lots of threats. At the back, we have brawns and brains put together with finesse in order to stifle the opposition attack.

In the defence, we have a typical setup where one full back is more defensive and one more attacking. In the middle, we have a stopper-sweeper setup. In the midfield, we have a deep-lying playmaker who will take over the ball and run things through the middle, whilst his midfield comrades around him will provide energy, movement, dynamism, and skill to pull the opposition around. Defensively, this midfield will cover lots of ground and suffocate the pitch. The front three is setup to be free and fluid (parallels can be drawn to Ancelotti's AC Milan with Kaká, Sheva, and Inzaghi).

Pat_mustard​

Formation: 4-4-2 Diamond
Defensive Line: Moderate

We're fielding an all-time great GK in Kahn, with the complementary centre back duo of the aggressive stopper Vidic and the defensive sweeper Schulz. Flanking my CBs are two magnificent full backs in Brehme and Thuram. With the opposition looking likely to mirror our diamond formation, Brehme should have plenty of scope to advance down the wing and put his superb ball delivery to productive use.

Matthias Sammer replaces Juan Veron at the base of our diamond midfield, a substantial stylistic shift from languid DLP to dogged and unyielding all-round powerhouse. Honestly, if I was building a team around him from scratch I'd want him positioned in the centre of a five-man defence in his libero role, but he still looks a great fit here. With Baggio presumably playing behind two centre forwards, Sammer is a great fit to mitigate against his genius. Flanked by two of the more powerful and athletic midfielders of the modern era in Patrick Vieira and Steven Gerrard, he'll also have licence to burst forward from time to time in the knowledge that there's defensively capable cover for him.

The first in a legendary line of great French No. 10s, Raymond Kopa takes centre stage at the tip of the diamond, with freedom to roam and orchestrate as he wishes. Ahead of him are the prolific and multi-faceted duo of Romario and Shevchenko. This looks an exciting and well-balanced duo to me. Romario has excelled alongside a range of partners from Bebeto through to Ronaldo and Edmundo, and Shevchenko fits the bill as a roving, foraging and highly skilled foil to one of the game's deadliest finishers.

Areas of Advantage:

1) Goalkeeper: No elaboration necessary here really - Zeman seems to have solid credentials but I'm sure everyone would pick Kahn ahead of him given the choice.

2) Width: Not an advantage I expected to enjoy given my own narrow formation, but the opposition looks particularly narrow. Breitner isn't an orthodox width-providing full back, which leaves Brehme as by far the standout width-provider on the park. I'd take Thuram's output over Boateng's too, with the supplementary width elsewhere on both teams being broadly equal. More importantly, our forward pairing are suited to a more centrally-orientated build up, whereas Seeler/Sanchez look somewhat under-utilised in a narrow set up. On a similar vein:

3) Vidic: So often painted as a liability in draft matches, he's got a stylistically favourable match up here, against two excellent strikers who nevertheless won't blitz him with pace. His brilliant aerial game should snuff out most of the danger from whatever crosses do come into our box.

 

[Tuppet]

Best of luck @mazhar13 @2mufc0 @Pat_Mustard

 

[mazhar13]

Interesting to see how we both have the exact same setup here. Our personnel also seem to match very closely in terms of individual quality (overall), which makes the following points contentious:

Not an advantage I expected to enjoy given my own narrow formation, but the opposition looks particularly narrow.

We are as narrow as each other here. In this case, the battles become more about which individuals can prevail and how the individuals' playing styles can disrupt the opposition.

Breitner isn't an orthodox width-providing full back, which leaves Brehme as by far the standout width-provider on the park.

They're both quite similar to each other, so I don't see how Brehme's the standout width-provider whilst Breitner isn't. Both are right-footed. Both are energetic. Both are astute passers (though Brehme is more of a playmaking influence). Both are decent dribblers (though Breitner is more direct, quicker on the ball, and better at taking on players).

Whilst Breitner did spend his peak years at Real Madrid as a central midfield general, he was still a dangerous left back for both Bayern Munich and Germany in his younger years. He was part of the FIFA World Cup All-Star team as a left back in 1974. He won both the European Championship and World Cup for West Germany as a left back, making his name in that role.

More importantly, our forward pairing are suited to a more centrally-orientated build up, whereas Seeler/Sanchez look somewhat under-utilised in a narrow set up.

That's not true. Seeler himself played for a West Germany team in 1966 where there was no right-sided player providing any width other than he himself. He still did well enough to get into the 1966 World Cup All-Star Team. Sánchez himself had his best years when playing in a lopsided 4-4-2/3-5-2 with Chendo the defensive full back and Gordillo the more attacking one. I see no reason for both Seeler and Sánchez to struggle in our setup particularly when a player like Oblak is quite good at stretching the pitch on the right and Baggio/Breitner combining well together.

 

[Physiocrat]

Close game.

Brietner doesn't look an immediate fit but both Robson and Baggio can pull wide so it's not a massive issue. I'm not sure on Oblak covering the wide right area without some full-back support. Any good vids on Oblak @mazhar13 @2mufc0 ?

Seeler can drift wide right but would prefer some more support. That said I really like the Redondo, Robson and Baggio axis. Also putting Picchi in a back four was a good call.

Pat's front three are still incredible and Brehme is an orthodox attacking full-back - I'm glad you're keeping Stevie Me in the RCM position. Sammer is defensively an upgrade on Veron which is particularly useful against Baggio but I think Veron still makes a more coherent side. You need someone like Veron to playmake from a deep central position. You don't want Stevie Me to try to control tempo - he worked best with Xabi so he could be all action.

On the fence.

 

[Physiocrat]

They're both quite similar to each other, so I don't see how Brehme's the standout width-provider whilst Breitner isn't. Both are right-footed. Both are energetic. Both are astute passers (though Brehme is more of a playmaking influence). Both are decent dribblers (though Breitner is more direct, quicker on the ball, and better at taking on players).

Brehme is one of the most two footed players ever alongside Nedved and Charlton so I think you're over playing your hand here

 

[mazhar13]

With Baggio presumably playing behind two centre forwards, Sammer is a great fit to mitigate against his genius.

Whilst Sammer gets occupied by Baggio, this is where Oblak can really shine. He can be the player to pop up in open spaces and cause havoc in the midfield area and your final third. Baggio himself won't be easily shook off the ball by Sammer, and Oblak will be able to pop up into spaces to relieve the pressure from him.

 

[mazhar13]

Brehme is one of the most two footed players ever alongside Nedved and Charlton so I think you're over playing your hand here

That's not my point. My point is that one can't easily discount Breitner when he was a proven left back for both Bayern Munich and West Germany. Even if he was more inclined to go to his right foot, he was still a threat on the left and stretched the opposition with his dribbles forward.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Tough match for both. Two diamonds. Baggio vs. Romario. Pat got one of the best upgrades he could have asked while the MM side adds Seeler which gives them more edge and balance.

I think both sets of CBs will be under fire and need help from Boateng/Thuram and Redondo/Sammer.

The Breitner-Thuram flank looks narrow for both sides.

Leaning towards Breitner being the difference here.

 

[mazhar13]

Any good vids on Oblak

I created and posted a video in our match against EAP. Unfortunately, I do not have access to Dailymotion at work, so I'm looking to @2mufc0 to provide the video for me.

 

[Physiocrat]

That's not my point. My point is that one can't easily discount Breitner when he was a proven left back for both Bayern Munich and West Germany. Even if he was more inclined to go to his right foot, he was still a threat on the left and stretched the opposition with his dribbles forward.

I haven't seen that much of Breitner for Bayern but for Germany he was hardly the classic width providing full-back. He dropped into midfield quite a bit from full-back rather than overlapping like R Carlos. Now I don't think that's a particular issue for you as Robson and Baggio can drift left. My main point is that Brehme is perfectly capable of providing quality width on his own on that left flank.

 

[mazhar13]

I haven't seen that much of Breitner for Bayern but for Germany he was hardly the classic width providing full-back. He dropped into midfield quite a bit from full-back rather than overlapping like R Carlos. Now I don't think that's a particular issue for you as Robson and Baggio can drift left. My main point is that Brehme is perfectly capable of providing quality width on his own on that left flank.

Yeah, that's fine. He can do that. That's where Oblak and Boateng come into play if he does enter that area.

Regarding Breitner, whilst he's not your typical width-providing left back, he was still a major threat on the left side, and he can combine excellently with Baggio and Robson, so that threat cannot be discounted.

 

[diarm]

Toughest match to call yet I reckon.

On first instincts, I feel Pat Mustard has the best balance and overall quality from back to front. But then I can't exaggerate enough how much I love that Redondo, Robson, Oblak, Baggio diamond - I can just see it being bloody amazing.

It's fascinating that both sides have lined up so similarly. Both front 3's are superb and while I prefer Mazhar's middle 3, Pat certainly has the stronger defence. Can't decide yet so will have to keep reading.

 

[mazhar13]

@Physiocrat

Here's the link to the post for your convenience: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/dominoes-draft-r1-eap-vs-mazhar13-2mufc0.433801/page-2#post-21716747

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Thanks @Tuppet . A few points to kick things off.

1) I feel dirty arguing against a team placing Baggio at centre stage. Particularly with Robbo there too, plus the likes of Seeler and Breitner.

2) I mentioned the opposition's lack of width in the OP, but the left-footed Oblak on the right of the diamond compounds that problem. It's still a very strong midfield in its own right, particularly with Breitner supporting from full back, but there's a conspicuous lack of width there with a pair of strikers ahead that thrived from good crossing.

3) Shevchenko vs Montero: Shevchenko's got a pretty strong track record against Montero, scoring 4 goals in 5 Serie A games against him, including this absolute belter:

Spoiler

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I haven't seen that much of Breitner for Bayern but for Germany he was hardly the classic width providing full-back. He dropped into midfield quite a bit from full-back rather than overlapping like R Carlos. Now I don't think that's a particular issue for you as Robson and Baggio can drift left. My main point is that Brehme is perfectly capable of providing quality width on his own on that left flank.

Breitner at CM for RM would pop up all over. I remember one match I watched and he made several runs down the left flank even though he was nominally the "right centre mid". While its true that Breitner isn't a classic run down the touchline and cross at the corner flag width provider its not like he doesn't make runs or can't threaten on the outside left channel.
Just because someone isn't a classic touchline hugger doesn't mean a player of Breitner's skill level isn't making sure the outside left channel isn't covered or threatened.

 

[Moby]

Even the arrows are identical.

 

[mazhar13]

Even the arrows are identical.

I kind of expected it, to be honest. I just didn't know that it would become this identical.

 

[mazhar13]

2) I mentioned the opposition's lack of width in the OP, but the left-footed Oblak on the right of the diamond compounds that problem. It's still a very strong midfield in its own right, particularly with Breitner supporting from full back, but there's a conspicuous lack of width there with a pair of strikers ahead that thrived from good crossing.

See the video from the link in post #13. The best chance of the game came from Oblak on the right skinning Marinho Chagas. That should leave you worried about the threat he can potential offer there. Having said that, we aren't looking to have a designated right-sided wide player. Seeler and Oblak can easily interchange and cause havoc for your back line.

3) Shevchenko vs Montero: Shevchenko's got a pretty strong track record against Montero, scoring 4 goals in 5 Serie A games against him, including this absolute belter:

Looking at their records over the 10 games that they faced each other, it's 3 wins, 4 draws, and 3 losses for both. That's 4 goals over 10 matches, overall, and that was in a defence that had an aged Ciro Ferrara. Here, we have a peak Picchi who is partnering Montero, and Picchi was an absolute wall at the back. I have created a video of his performance against Real Madrid in the 1964 European Cup final that @2mufc0 can link in here, and he was shutting down any threat that came through the middle from the likes of Puskas and Amancio. I'm confident that our back line will make it very, very difficult for your team to open us up.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Gerrard in direct opposition to Robson ..... ..... you're not making it easy to vote for you @Pat_Mustard !

 

[Gio]

Romario swings it for me.

 

[2mufc0]

I think Mazhar has done a good job of describing how we are looking to play.

One thing i would add is to put this video on showing what Armando Picchi is about, we always read about how good he was but there is very little footage of him available, credit to @mazhar13 for putting this together but would encourage you to watch as you can see how bloody good he really was. Not only mopping up but also his distribution.


Also tagging @Raees as he was asking to see vids.

I would also add, this is a tight game no doubt, but can see Redondo making the difference, Sammer is great but not in his prime position and Redondo is in his element here and will bring the midfield into control. Also i think Oblak is superior to Gerrard in terms of defensive contribution which will also make a difference.

 

[2mufc0]

I hope one day i can win the vote of @crappycraperson

 

[Pat_Mustard]

See the video from the link in post #13. The best chance of the game came from Oblak on the right skinning Marinho Chagas. That should leave you worried about the threat he can potential offer there. Having said that, we aren't looking to have a designated right-sided wide player. Seeler and Oblak can easily interchange and cause havoc for your back line.

Aye, I did watch that video in your previous match and Oblak is an impressive player. That said, a left-footer as a primary width provider on the right in Oblak, and a right-footer who roamed all over the place as a primary width provider on the left in Breitner, doesn't look a natural fit with two strikers with such an imposing aerial game. I still feel it's completely justified to state that Brehme will be the most consistent width provider on the pitch. Oblak isn't out of place on the right of the diamond, but Gerrard is a particularly clean fit, having impressed in that role when he fleetingly played there for England*, and having enjoyed one of his best seasons for Liverpool in a wide right midfield role.

*

="The Independent: Gerrard the priceless asset in England's diamond formation"

One player who seems to relish the change, whichever role he assumes within it, is Steven Gerrard. The Liverpool midfielder was an elemental force for England in the first half, relishing the added responsibility upon him in Beckham's absence.

Gerrard's last three caps have come at left-midfield (Turkey), midfield anchor (South Africa) and right-midfield (Serbia and Montenegro). Even on the left, after initially appearing unsure, he ultimately performed well, his growing familiarity with his international team-mates allowing them to exchange positions giving a fluidity to England's shape.

This was apparent on Tuesday. Having delivered telling crosses from the right he drifted inside before passing his way through the Serbian centre to score. "The system suits him and he can play anywhere in it," Eriksson said.

Looking at their records over the 10 games that they faced each other, it's 3 wins, 4 draws, and 3 losses for both. That's 4 goals over 10 matches, overall, and that was in a defence that had an aged Ciro Ferrara. Here, we have a peak Picchi who is partnering Montero, and Picchi was an absolute wall at the back. I have created a video of his performance against Real Madrid in the 1964 European Cup final that @2mufc0 can link in here, and he was shutting any threat that came through the middle from the likes of Puskas and Amancio. I'm confident that our back line will make it very, very difficult for your team to open us up

If you're defence is stronger than Juve's defence from that period, then my attack is also stronger than the Milan attack Sheva lined up in. The lineups from the match when Shevhenko scored that incredible goal that I posted above, for reference. Montero was still part of an excellent defensive unit:

Goalkeeper Christian Abbiati
Defenders José Antonio Chamot, Alessandro Costacurta, Thomas Helveg, Paolo Maldini
Midfielders Ümit Davala, Demetrio Albertini, Rui Costa, Gennaro Gattuso
Strikers Javi Moreno, Andriy Shevchenko

Goalkeeper Gianluigi Buffon
Defenders Mark Iuliano, Paolo Montero, Gianluca Pessotto, Lilian Thuram, Gianluca Zambrotta
Midfielders Edgar Davids, Pavel Nedved, Alessio Tacchinardi
Strikers Alessandro Del Piero, David Trézéguet

 

[Moby]

but can see Redondo making the difference

Always liked you.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Gerrard in direct opposition to Robson ..... ..... you're not making it easy to vote for you @Pat_Mustard !

Aye, I wasn't in any hurry to bring up that particular head to head battle.

 

[2mufc0]

Aye, I did watch that video in your previous match and Oblak is an impressive player. That said, a left-footer as a primary width provider on the right in Oblak, and a right-footer who roamed all over the place as a primary width provider on the left in Breitner, doesn't look a natural fit with two strikers with such an imposing aerial game. I still feel it's completely justified to state that Brehme will be the most consistent width provider on the pitch. Oblak isn't out of place on the right of the diamond, but Gerrard is a particularly clean fit, having impressed in that role when he fleetingly played there for England*, and having enjoyed one of his best seasons for Liverpool in a wide right midfield role.

*




If you're defence is stronger than Juve's defence from that period, then my attack is also stronger than the Milan attack Sheva lined up in. The lineups from the match when Shevhenko scored that incredible goal that I posted above, for reference. Montero was still part of an excellent defensive unit:

Goalkeeper Christian Abbiati
Defenders José Antonio Chamot, Alessandro Costacurta, Thomas Helveg, Paolo Maldini
Midfielders Ümit Davala, Demetrio Albertini, Rui Costa, Gennaro Gattuso
Strikers Javi Moreno, Andriy Shevchenko

Goalkeeper Gianluigi Buffon
Defenders Mark Iuliano, Paolo Montero, Gianluca Pessotto, Lilian Thuram, Gianluca Zambrotta
Midfielders Edgar Davids, Pavel Nedved, Alessio Tacchinardi
Strikers Alessandro Del Piero, David Trézéguet

Gerrard best season imo was when he was playing almost second striker with Alonso behind him, he's never turned up for England so don't think that's a good example to use of him.

 

[2mufc0]

Always liked you.

Lol Redondo is <3

 

[2mufc0]

Also Captain Marvel didn't get talked about much last game but the guy is a match winner on his own but often gets forgotten, great thread on him here by @Joga Bonito :

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/cla...-the-greatest-british-midfielder-ever.431217/

 

[Physiocrat]

Is it just me who prefers Veron in Pat's side? I really think he needs his passing from deep. Ideally he'd have Redondo IMO

 

[Raees]

I think Mazhar has done a good job of describing how we are looking to play.

One thing i would add is to put this video on showing what Armando Picchi is about, we always read about how good he was but there is very little footage of him available, credit to @mazhar13 for putting this together but would encourage you to watch as you can see how bloody good he really was. Not only mopping up but also his distribution.


Also tagging @Raees as he was asking to see vids.

I would also add, this is a tight game no doubt, but can see Redondo making the difference, Sammer is great but not in his prime position and Redondo is in his element here and will bring the midfield into control. Also i think Oblak is superior to Gerrard in terms of defensive contribution which will also make a difference.

Nice one mate.. cheers.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Aye, I wasn't in any hurry to bring up that particular head to head battle.

It pains me to even consider it.... if there was a chart showing how much I like players, they would be completely at opposite ends.

Like both diamonds, Sammer/Redondo and Kopa/Baggio hard to separate. Possibly a slight preference for your FBs.....

Tight..... even with Slippy.

 

[crappycraperson]

I hope one day i can win the vote of @crappycraperson

Just prefer Pat's team all around. Only issue I have is with Gerrard in that position in a dimaond given he lacks discipline to hold position but Sammer and Vieira are great cover for him. Sammer is also on his favored role whilst I don't feel the same for Redondo. Sheva is used to this role in a diamond and Romario-Kopa can sync up ala Fontaine-Kopa. Finally not sure about boateng at right.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Gerrard best season imo was when he was playing almost second striker with Alonso behind him, he's never turned up for England so don't think that's a good example to use of him.

He scored 23 goals from a right midfield position in 2005-06 and won the PFA Player of the Year award that year, so he's clearly got pedigree there even if you think he was better as a secod striker. The England example is relevant as he was playing the same role in the same formation as I'm using, and evidently playing it very well, regardless of his overall international career.

Also i think Oblak is superior to Gerrard in terms of defensive contribution which will also make a difference

I don't see much basis for this really. Gerrard ploughed through tonnes of defensive work, and he was an incredible athlete.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

It pains me to even consider it.... if there was a chart showing how much I like players, they would be completely at opposite ends.

Like both diamonds, Sammer/Redondo and Kopa/Baggio hard to separate. Possibly a slight preference for your FBs.....

Tight..... even with Slippy.

Likewise. I'm trying to like the fecker for as long as he's in my imaginary team, but it's not coming easily.

 

[Gio]

Is it just me who prefers Veron in Pat's side? I really think he needs his passing from deep. Ideally he'd have Redondo IMO

Yeah in isolation from the opposition I don't see it an upgrade. Probably prefer Veron the midfielder especially flanked by two powerhouses in Vieira and Gerrard. That said, with Baggio lurking, Sammer's a better fit to keep tabs on him.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Is it just me who prefers Veron in Pat's side? I really think he needs his passing from deep. Ideally he'd have Redondo IMO

Redondo would be a lovely fit in my team granted, and something of a halfway house between Veron and Sammer. Sammer will offer more defensively vs an all-time great No. 10 in Baggio though, and his tactical acumen and incredible leadership is invaluable against such an imposing opposition midfield.

I'm not too bothered about not having a dedicated DLP. Firstly, Redondo isn't really going to suffocate my primary playmaker Kopa out of the game. Secondly, in Sammer, Vieira, Gerrard and Brehme, we have enough quality on the ball even without Veron to build from the back or find our attackers early.

 

[Gio]

I'm assuming neither of you had the tools, or the right-wing back to be specific, to go 3-5-2?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Is it just me who prefers Veron in Pat's side? I really think he needs his passing from deep. Ideally he'd have Redondo IMO

Can see the Veron passing case, not sure about his defensive abilities?

 

[2mufc0]

He scored 23 goals from a right midfield position in 2005-06 and won the PFA Player of the Year award that year, so he's clearly got pedigree there even if you think he was better as a secod striker. The England example is relevant as he was playing the same role in the same formation as I'm using, and evidently playing it very well, regardless of his overall international career.

I'll be honest with you, I don't rate Gerrard at all he was a good player in periods but a massive bottler. It's also infuriating the likes of him got the England teams built around him while the likes of Scholes got shoehorned to the left wing.

 

[Moby]

Having a DLP is pretty critical in a diamond. Sammer is an all action player and not exactly a playmaker. He already has Vieira and Gerrard to cover loads of ground and provide the two-way game, so an actual playmaker in his position is pretty important. Otherwise there's hell of a burden on Kopa to control the tempo and link everything up.

I don't think Redondo is ideal in that role either as it is restricting his forward dribbling and spraying passes from an advanced position but he still provides a better offensive/defensive balance there and obviously world class passing and creativity which would be key in this game.