Yep, rightly or wrongly, it is. Also, the threshold has been set deliberately too high for it.
Donald Trump - All things impeachment.... | Acquitted in the Senate
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That is my biggest problem with the process. They should have gone to courts to force the subpoenas before they finalized the impeachment.
Of course, ignoring subpoenas is unlawful, but the situation is a bit more gray than you are trying to make it out. Republicans might argue that there is sensitive information there, which they cannot just give to the congress and so on, something that then can be arbitrated by the court. Considering that this has all been a game about who looks good, Democrats should have done everything in their power to look good by going down the long road. Unfortunately, the elections being next year resulted on them fast-tracking the process. And now Republicans will do that too in the Senate and everything will be back to point 0 in a few weeks.
Is it?
Bribery can be ‘high crimes and misdemeanors’.
It was set deliberately vague so Congress can approach at their discretion. Obviously they didn’t quite think it through because partisan fervor in the form of political parties renders the process pointless.
What I mean is that for it to result with a removal and/or a real change or public opinion, the bar needs to be high. Obviously, if it is only to give the label of an impeached president, it is very easy to do so. All you need is to have the votes.
Congress is an equal power to the executive branch, there is nothing that is too sensitive for their eyes. Their constitutional role is literally to oversee the executive branch. Yes, certain information is classified and could only be seen by certain members of the Intelligence Committee or the Judicial Committee but they have no right to hide everything.
The fact a lot of the information that has come out has come from FOI requests tells you how sensitive that information really is. Unfortunately Congress cannot use the FOI process to obtain documents so they are relying on the public and the fourth estate to guess what might be useful and make the requests themselves.
Republicans are not going to have the chance to fast track it in the senate because the Democrats are not going to send them over until a fair process has been negotiated so they will remain handing over Trump’s head without letting him triumphantly declare TOTAL EXONERATION.
In the meantime when the subpoenas have finished moving through courts, more articles of impeachment will be added and the two current articles will be ratified with more evidence.
There is an awful lot to criticise the Dems for but they have handle the impeachment proceedings very well.
All yours and MM’s grievances prove is that the Republican and right wing talking heads are very competent at muddying the water and propagating their nonsense.
As someone who has been depressingly obsessed with this process, I'm aghast at how well the GOP's talking points have seeped into - I assume - an international crowd on here. You have posters from outside the US verbatim quoting WH and McConnell talking points in a debate. It's remarkable, I honestly didn't realise Fox News had that kind of reach.
My 2c on the matter, and I'll try to only write things that are factual with no interpretation:
1. The framers created impeachment as a check on executive power, with a very specific view to foreign interference in political process - which made sense given where the US on the international scene at the time
2. The House is an equal branch in terms of power to the executive, and one of its responsibilities is to provide oversight
3. Trump and his personal lawyer withheld military funding and a promise of a meet and greet in exchange for an announcement of an investigation into a political rival, ahead of the 2020 election
4. Such an announcement would impact the chances of that candidate competing against Trump, and hence, the election
5. This therefore required Congress to act in its oversight capacity, regardless of if it really liked the politics of it
6. During this process, the White House refused to do its constitutional duty and provide materials and witnesses to the House oversight committee. It didn't just withold material it deemed sensitive, it withheld literally everything, the WH has turned over 0 materials voluntarily. All of the witnesses have acted on their own. This is unprecedented, and unconstitutional - and has been ruled such by 2 levels of courts.
7. Despite federal judge rulings, the WH continues to withhold all information, meaning it will eventually get to the Supreme Court, someday.
8. Regardless of the outcome there and the fact Trump himself chose 2 of the judges that could potentially swing it, they will not hear the case until he has potentially rigged the election. Therefore waiting was out of the question.
9. The GOP Senators have said they will not be impartial jurors, will not even look at evidence and may not even seek materials or witnesses.
10. The Democrats took the house forcefully in 2018 partly on the promise of holding the WH accountable.
11. The Democrats invited the President to proceedings, and have continuously invited his lawyers to participate. They have declined. One at least one of the days the President declined to attend the hearings, he had the day off at Mar-a-largo and was golfing. (so he could probably have gone)
All of that, imo, is not in dispute. So even if the politics of it aren't great, I don't see what option the Democrats have other than what they've done.
My 2c on the matter, and I'll try to only write things that are factual with no interpretation:
1. The framers created impeachment as a check on executive power, with a very specific view to foreign interference in political process - which made sense given where the US on the international scene at the time
2. The House is an equal branch in terms of power to the executive, and one of its responsibilities is to provide oversight
3. Trump and his personal lawyer withheld military funding and a promise of a meet and greet in exchange for an announcement of an investigation into a political rival, ahead of the 2020 election
4. Such an announcement would impact the chances of that candidate competing against Trump, and hence, the election
5. This therefore required Congress to act in its oversight capacity, regardless of if it really liked the politics of it
6. During this process, the White House refused to do its constitutional duty and provide materials and witnesses to the House oversight committee. It didn't just withold material it deemed sensitive, it withheld literally everything, the WH has turned over 0 materials voluntarily. All of the witnesses have acted on their own. This is unprecedented, and unconstitutional - and has been ruled such by 2 levels of courts.
7. Despite federal judge rulings, the WH continues to withhold all information, meaning it will eventually get to the Supreme Court, someday.
8. Regardless of the outcome there and the fact Trump himself chose 2 of the judges that could potentially swing it, they will not hear the case until he has potentially rigged the election. Therefore waiting was out of the question.
9. The GOP Senators have said they will not be impartial jurors, will not even look at evidence and may not even seek materials or witnesses.
10. The Democrats took the house forcefully in 2018 partly on the promise of holding the WH accountable.
11. The Democrats invited the President to proceedings, and have continuously invited his lawyers to participate. They have declined. One at least one of the days the President declined to attend the hearings, he had the day off at Mar-a-largo and was golfing. (so he could probably have gone)
All of that, imo, is not in dispute. So even if the politics of it aren't great, I don't see what option the Democrats have other than what they've done.
Dude, I don’t watch right wing media dude. Try living in the world where not everyone who disagrees with you is a brainwashed idiot.
Now about the rest of the post, all you did was say wishful thinking. None of that will happen. What will happen is that Pelosi will send the articles of the impeachment after Schumers and McConnell will agree on a trial similar to that of Clinton, and this will happen within January. All Republicans will vote to exonerate Trump, with Mancin and possibly Sinema and Jones joining them. Mark my words on this.
The idea that Pelosi and Chuck will defeat McTurtle on his own game is cute. But cute things are not realistic. When the Republicans will start showing adds of Pelosi saying that the process needs urgency and then her declining to send the articles, with the polls showing that the public want a quick resolution, Democrats will backtrack very fast.
I don't get the argument. "The House should have let is slide cause the Senate will acquit"?
The House sitting on its hands while waiting for the courts wasn't an option.
Look at how slow the process is to what is essentially a crime happening in real time.
The House sitting on its hands while waiting for the courts wasn't an option.
Look at how slow the process is to what is essentially a crime happening in real time.
.. but its a coup bro, check the best dictionary in the world Oxford, the definition fits exactly. Get your head out of the bubble bro.
oh wait, it could actually be a coop, cause democrats are chicken for impeaching Trump... yes, it fits. Its a coop.
oh and yeah, i didn't vote for Trump...
Good post!
The House waiting for the courts is what happened in Clinton’s and Nixon’s case. Process is slow, so be it. Where is the logic on ‘the process is slow so let’s fast track it and then get a quick acquitment’ or ‘let’s not wait for the courts but wait for McConnell to backtrack’.
After Garran and Kavanaugh fiascos they should have learned the lesson. Do not play against McConnell on his own game. He is just a much better player than Pelosi and Schumers. Instead the energy should be on winning the senate and the presidency, not spending energy on chasing ghosts.
I'm not sure the Dems can win the senate in the foreseeable future.
I also think learning a lesson from McConnell is just admitting democracy will no longer work in the US, and some dems still want to try to take the high road.
McConnells brand of politics hurts his constituents. You have to hope that they'll realise.
Hopefully they will. They need to flip 4 seats (or flip 3 but keep Alabama). They will flip Colorado, Collins is very vulnerable this time, and Arizona is a toss up. Not favorites but very doable. 2022 is extremely doable, and will definitely flip, especially if Republicans win the White House.
The impression I get from talking with people (and backed with stats) is that the economy is the best it has ever been. Many people seem to dislike Trump on personal level, but appreciate that the economy is working and think that they are better off continuing this way. Additionally, McConnell sends a lot of money to Kentucky, so they might not see it that way, and think that they are better with a scum who gives money to his country, than with a newbie who is a better person but won’t have real power. I don’t agree with such a selfish POV, but many people see things that way.
Oh the economy definitely helps in his favor - but what people are not thinking about is that real wages have barely gone up over the years, home prices have again shot up beyond the reach of many first time home buyers (the younger folks Rs don't care about), many jobs created pay less than ever before and with worse benefits, pensions and retiree health are gone for most, health care costs have continued to climb higher, education is beyond the reach of many now because states lack funds for them and the one in charge of Dept of education is loving it - all while the amount of people burdened with mass amounts of college debt has ballooned, most of the US infrastructure is still shite compared to most other western countries, developers are lining their pockets and people think that is good.. Shiny new buildings good right? while smaller businesses are being priced out of downtowns everywhere because of greedy landlords and their often tax exempted or tax credit receiving developers who put up their new buildings etc etc.
The economy is truly great for a select few when it comes down to it. The rest of it is merely perception based on things that don't actually directly benefit the middle class of this country - which continues to be squeezed to death. Consumer confidence is a major psychological trick. We re the only western country I believe who s economy drives mostly based on consumer spending rather than trade. As long as people think they re better off.. They ll spend.. And the cycle continues.
So can trump get in any (more) legal trouble for re-tweating an article naming the alleged whistleblower
Which he has
Which he has
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So, don't use your constitutional powers. Just sit back and wait for your turn and when it does come around just get fecked in the ass by McConnell because he is a shrewd operator.
Why do the people who say they hate the
Republicans prefer that they are left alone to feck over everybody while they bad mouth every Democrat unless its the Democrat or independent they like?
Unless you are a greedy hateful son of a bitch then that party of right wing cnuts has nothing for you. Why sit back and not fight? Why not play dirty like they do?
This doesn't help the Democrats because the bolded was no different for most people under Obama than it is under Trump.
You forgot one more MAJOR thing. These developers get paid $$$$ to create more products that will automate and kill more jobs.
Automation will kill more and more jobs and middle class will only get worse. Estate tax is the way to go. I dont mind Bezos making a trillion as he is self made but I do get riled up knowing his lottery winning offspring will take a major chunk.
This Billionaire pledge thing is mostly all talk.
Bezos is self made alright.
Bezos is a cnut.
My father is self made. Still a cnut
“A small investment of a quarter million...”
He might be a cnut and he did get help but what he created; very few people in the world could have done that.
Where each dollar generated 500k dollars.
Not the biggest fan of Bezos around, but it is a very small amount of money compared to the empire he created.
Not to mention the fact that thousands have started business with start up investments and fallen flat on their faces. You still have to have an idea, a vision, and a plan, set it in motion at a time when it can actually work.
Sure he’s a smart businessman but Amazon empire doesn’t happen without his rich parents. My point.
Doesn’t matter. A lot of people have 250k (or can get them if they want), but only a few are able to build those empires.
Maybe the discussion is better for the Facebook/Amazon thread.
That's kind of ridiculous. That type of capital could be aquired at most banks.
Hate the dude for a great many reasons if you must, but denying that he built Amazon more or less from scratch is just wrong.
That's a relatively small amount of money. If not family members, he could've just as easily gotten a loan.
I don’t have time to fully outline it now but there is a big difference between getting $225k from a bank and $225k from your parents. No regular person has that kind of privilege growing up where parents can just pull that money out of their sleeve and hand it off. Show me a lower or middle class person who made their way to billionaire status.
I think it’s fair to say that not just anyone can raise $250k in America today. That would also be closer to $500k today with inflation so while yes there are plenty of people who could raise that money, I very much doubt they would be able to do so without leveraging a serious portion of their business or without having a not so insignificant debt servicing factored into their accounts.
I wasn’t accusing you of watching Fox and co, I was certain you don’t and that was my point. You are still parroting Republican talking points and if you watched the impeachment trials you should have seen how preposterous they are in comparison to the trial the democrats led.
Jan Koum / Brian Acton.
While not that easy to get as a loan, with the right idea 250K can be gotten as a seed capital from a fund.
Certainly not anyone can, but raising the money is just one part of doing what Bezos did. Plenty of people actually come from hi net worth families and completely flop at starting companies. It takes having an idea, finding the right way to translate it into a business, and doing it at the right time for when there's an actual market available. Otherwise literally everyone with similar access to capital would be wildly successful at everything they did, when that is of course not even remotely the case.
True self made folks there.
Depends on what you mean by middle-class, but in any case, all of the big tech guys are self-made. In some cases, they were even what would be considered relatively poor (Sergey Brinn for example). Steve Jobs family was not rich by any means.
So yeah, it is doable and while it requires a lot of skill and right business decision, luck plays an extremely large part.
Were Mark Cuban's parents wealthy?
They were not.
Phil Knight – he co-founded Nike with Bill Bowerman, his University running coach, and they each put in $500 to start the company.
He is now worth $40 billion.
Legend
Username checks out
Never said there weren’t any self made people. Just disputing Bezos as being one of them. I think my one comment got misinterpreted.
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